The new characters are EASIER to use IMO

[2wice]

All I did for my spring break last week was play a crap load of Brawl (pretty sad spring break but that's another story). I've noticed that a couple of people I knew who played Samus in melee had stopped playing Samus in Brawl, and now that I've had a good amount of time with the game I understand why.

To counter many of the new characters I practiced with them just to see why/how their move set was so effective against Samus. I mainly practiced with Diddy, Pit, and Squirtle. After a bit of practicing, I suddonly got good with them... I played against my friends with them, and noticed I was owning with the new characters. I feel that the new characters are REALLY easy to use. Do you guys also notice that? While with Samus, we have to work extremely hard just to be on par with these guys. It's seriously unfair. Just practicing for 20 min with, lets say Squirtle or Diddy, I was owning my friends who were previously owning me when I played with Samus. Don't get me wrong, I'm not cheating on Samus with another, I'm still going to main her, but jeez, the work and dedication that we Samus players have to have just to be "ok" is tremendous. I find that I can play loosely with some of the new characters and not get "punished" too much, but with Samus, I'm really careful not to make one error cuz I need all the percentage that I can get.

Well not really a point to this post, just to give a shout out to all of you dedicated Samus players, because in Brawl it does take dedication to stay with a character that clearly is constantly fighting an uphill battle.

 

[hardcore]

Do you have to victimize yourself like that? Sheeeeesh.
I think the transition from melee to brawl is what makes some people feel this way.
You might be trying to play your character as if it was still melee,
whereas you should be adapting to the new playstyle that might've come with brawl.

Just a thought :/

 

[2wice]

Victimize huh... well I don't see it like that, just saying that there is a lot more effort FOR ME, when playing with samus then when I play with other characters. Eh, with the transition from melee to brawl... I think the best way to play is to forget melee ever existed and just to play as if THIS is the only samus, and to play her "THIS" way.

 

[tisthemorning]

I totally agree. Samus is much harder to use effectively than let's say Ike or Pit, and I haven't even played melee.

 

[Subach]

It takes a lot of skill and practice to get good with Fox in Melee, and he's the best character in that game.
Just saying.

Anyway, Samus has ALWAYS been hard to learn and win with, and besides, with all the changes she had, she practically IS a new character.

 

[ADHD]

Samus is so much more fun than Ike, or diddy

 

[Subach]

Samus is so much more fun than Ike, or diddy

Indeed, I'd rather be a badass bounty hunter in an equally awesome suit of power armor than some stupid monkey or sentimental punk that fights for his friends.

 

[0RLY]

Samus is a new character as well. All the changes that were made to her gameplay has to count for something, right? Perhaps your playstyle doesn't suit Samus. Perhaps your playstyle fits an offensive character, such as Diddy & Squirtle. Samus has always been a 'tanky' character of sorts. You have to know how to play as her. I use Samus most of the time and I perform admirably.

If you can't use Samus to her fullest potential, then go find someone who can then use someone else or learn to use her better.

A cookie for you if you know the source. ↑

 

[Fearmy]

Samus is hard to play, i almost completley dropped her, until i saw the Zair Topic. Squirtle is easy to play, but playing with Ivysaur and Zard can really get annoying

 

[GotACoolName]

I thought Brawl Samus was very easy to learn... She's easily been my best character for all the time I've had the game. My experience with her in Melee, though, probably has made her much easier to use in Brawl (though I just played Melee for the first time since March 8 yesterday and couldn't play at all I was so bad >_>), as she still retains many of the same traits. I seriously cannot understand how anyone can think - let alone as many people that are indeed guilty of this thought - that Samus sucks now. She's still very good. (And this is irrelevant to the thread, but I must be the only person who thinks she's better with the Power Suit on than without it. Imagine that.)

 

[0RLY]

I indefinetly believe Samus is better with the Power Suit on than without. *Waits for Nintendo to design a Metroid Prime variant of her suit*

 

[k4polo]

I indefinetly believe Samus is better with the Power Suit on than without. *Waits for Nintendo to design a Metroid Prime variant of her suit*

I am opposite though. I am trying to learn Samus but she is very different from brawl.She more of a long range defensive type which is no my type. I am more offensive orientated so its ZSS for me. I can see why Samus main of melee left her though. Shes good now but in Melee she was much better.

 

[khoasgotrice]

yeah, samus changed alot.....ive been trying to get used to her but i have to completly change my play style to fit teh new samus. its hard and i get owned alot by my friends that i owned in melee. its rough, but i think im going to stick it out. hopefully it pays off

 

[Pi]

Samus players had to work harder to beat other characters in melee, and it's the same for brawl. You have to be a better player than your opponent to win, not just a lil better, quite a bit better. You have to know your character too, what works what doesn't work, her range her faults.

 

[HugS]

Samus players had to work harder to beat other characters in melee, and it's the same for brawl. You have to be a better player than your opponent to win, not just a lil better, quite a bit better. You have to know your character too, what works what doesn't work, her range her faults.

That's the problem, when it comes down to knowledge of your character and your opponent's characters, the limitations of samus are ever more lucid.

I'm really disillusioned with the new samus. It's sad.
Her new forced playstyle doesn't help matters either.

 

[Yorenec]

That's the problem, when it comes down to knowledge of your character and your opponent's characters, the limitations of samus are ever more lucid.

I'm really disillusioned with the new samus. It's sad.
Her new forced playstyle doesn't help matters either.

Agreed. I've started playing Brawl less and less the more I realize and come to terms with the sheer banality of how she works in any given situation. The people who go against me regularly know by far the majority of tricks I can pull out of my *** and are countering them more and more.

It doesn't help whatsoever that I'm really having trouble coming up with new tricks cause I don't have much to work with in the first place.

Maybe she is a shallow character after all in some twisted way.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Samus does suck in this game. She has less kill moves Ironically than Zero suit Samus.

Samus's killer are her Forward smash (nerfed like hell, kills at like 140%)
her bair (see above it kills at 120% if close to the edge)

ZSS killers are her
Uair
Bair
Forward B sweetspot.

 

[ShadowRegulus]

Her dtilt, dsmash, uptilt, and Charge Shot can kill as well. And I've killed with her usmash before, but it's difficult to actually land the last hit. And you can always meteor people with her dair. She has kill moves, the problem is that most of them need higher percents and can be difficult to land.

 

[Pi]

I really hate to throw out my opinions on the limited knowledge I have of the game so far, and the limited experience playing good players but I still like samus. I stomped my friends who played dedede, pit, marth and cfalcon; but I know they don't play much and we can't be very good.

I'd really like to see some video's, no matter how bad samus loses, just to see how she handles at 'higher' levels of play. I'm just not seeing why everyone is so down-trodden over her new features.


Characters without projectiles should be no problem at all...with the arsenal you have you should be able to control the match, shouldn't you? Her melee game doesn't seem to be horrible at all, same with her air game. And since the game has been reduced to rolling (bleh) it should be quite easy to predict your opponents (but same goes for you I guess).

Again I don't like making these statements because I know I can't be that good, and I know my friends can't be that good, but I just haven't seen reason to be upset over her.


I'll see if I can get a replay of me and my friends playing up...to get critiqued or something.

 

[25%Cotton]

i play really offensively... so samus is very difficult for me. i still main her, but ****.... my other characters are much easier to be offensive with...

 

[GotACoolName]

I think a lot of you would be surprised at how powerful her utilt is.

 

[25%Cotton]

Samus does suck in this game. She has less kill moves Ironically than Zero suit Samus.

Samus's killer are her Forward smash (nerfed like hell, kills at like 140%)
her bair (see above it kills at 120% if close to the edge)

ZSS killers are her
Uair
Bair
Forward B sweetspot.

you forgot her flip kick. i get 1/3 of my kills with it... speaking of, i use it too much .

 

[HugS]

I think a lot of you would be surprised at how powerful her utilt is.

I think you've been posting kind of ignorantly lately.

Just saying.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Dont feel bad my good sir.. you are not alone... look at the Jiggs changes

 

[GotACoolName]

I think you've been posting kind of ignorantly lately.

Just saying.

Why do you think that?

 

[Subach]

Samus does suck in this game. She has less kill moves Ironically than Zero suit Samus.

Samus's killer are her Forward smash (nerfed like hell, kills at like 140%)
her bair (see above it kills at 120% if close to the edge)

ZSS killers are her
Uair
Bair
Forward B sweetspot.

You forget her u-tilt, charge shot and d-tilt, her D-smash can kill at higher percentages too.

So that's six to your three, maybe four if we can count ZSS's f-smash, although I will say that calling ZSS's u-air a kill move is somewhat dubious.

Also, Samus can edgeguard better than ZSS can, which allows her to score gimp kills at fairly low percentages.

 

[KhannKlan]

Samus is too cool not to play imo.

I did play a lot of melee, and after trying out numerous new characters I was continually drawn back to Samus and Zelda, which is weird because I'm normally an offensive player. Anyway, I think that the one thing Sakurai may have done right this game was toadstool jumping.... Wait... that's not right!

What I meant to say was that because Sakurai decided to force his party mentality on us, almost every character can be very good so long as you know how to use them. Being good now is more based on knowing your opponent and being able to mindgame with them. Because of this I pick the characters who I think are the coolest and just play smash with them, of course I'm playing for fun here.

 

[HugS]

Why do you think that?

The gist of everyone's complaining is basically "her missiles don't have ridiculous knockback anymore and her bombs sux so i'm done with her ):<".

You said this right after a grip of people gave very good reasons for why they were disappointed with samus. These reasons had hardly anything to do with weakened super missiles and bombs. So the gist of their arguments were not as you stated.

I think a lot of you would be surprised at how powerful her utilt is.

A lot of posters list her utilt, along with a few others, as one of her main KO potential moves. So I don't see where you got the idea that a "lot of us" don't know about the Utilt's KO potential.

That's why i thought that.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Hugs.. there MUST be a story behind your name... lol @ Mr. Zagenites

 

[da K.I.D.]

so far out of all the new characters, sonic is the only one that you cant beast with after 15 min. of playtime. i say stick with your char. and if you really want to play a new char. you can just stay with samus and taunt up and down really fast.

 

[GotACoolName]

You said this right after a grip of people gave very good reasons for why they were disappointed with samus. These reasons had hardly anything to do with weakened super missiles and bombs. So the gist of their arguments were not as you stated.

I didn't literally mean everyone, and I was not just talking about SWF's Samus board.

A lot of posters list her utilt, along with a few others, as one of her main KO potential moves. So I don't see where you got the idea that a "lot of us" don't know about the Utilt's KO potential.

That's why i thought that.

I've seen little mention of her utilt. If there has been, I stand corrected.

 

[Eten]

So, er, eh. Yeah, I think most of the other characters are easier to use. It's not TOO huge of a difference, well, not as much as I once thought. The only real issue I have with Samus anymore is the lack of KO power. Other characters just completely wreck her in terms of knocking people out.

 

[Lucrece]

So, er, eh. Yeah, I think most of the other characters are easier to use. It's not TOO huge of a difference, well, not as much as I once thought. The only real issue I have with Samus anymore is the lack of KO power. Other characters just completely wreck her in terms of knocking people out.

I see the same issue. I could tolerate her insufferably mediocre missiles and bombs if she had more KO potential. It's outright impossible to kill a competent opponent before 120-130 without either landing a charge shot, which everyone and their mother can now either reflect, dodge, or shield, or gimping their recovery (which has become almost pointless considering how buffed recoveries have gotten).

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

I disagree Lucrece, gimping recoveries has not become pointless at all. In fact thats how i get most of my kills with Samus.
Really, when you consider how much damage an opponent needs to have before she can kill them from the stage its a requirement to master it.

With Samus' floatyness and air control she can do alot off stage and still make it back without a hitch. Second she has range superiority to most characters, her missles, charge shot and especially the Zair give her great reach. If you can knock your opponent off stage at stage level or below you can Dair/Bair them into oblivion without them just casually air-dodging it.

Some simple examples:
*Opponent is sent upwards off stage.
Using guided missles you can limit their options and either force them to airdodge past them where you can take advantage of them when they come out of it, they'll let it hit them and you get extra damage plus a chance to punish, or they fall lower providing you even more options.
*Opponent was sent out at stage level .
You could use canceled s.missles to limit their recovery options, either forcing airdodging, droping below stage, or it may hit them which will add a decent amount of damage and may knock some characters to far back to recover. You could also use the Zair and attempt a sweet spot contact which has good knockback and can be repeated to gimp pretty well.
*opponent is knocked or fallen below stage.
Dairs are most effective here, especially after their midair jump since airdodging can no longer be casualy applied. In the case you do miss or are dodge you can jump and attack again if you haven't used your air jump yet or up-b which should catch them and at least damage them it not send them slightly back out where you can continue to edgeguard them. Bairs work very well to keep them to far back to recover and is they are further out yet a zair from the stage may finish them completely. If they are about to get into edge grabing range and you need to quick get them back out you can run off stage and simply punt them out again with a quick Nair (works better at higher percents).

~in all 3 levels a fully charged shot can effectively destroy your opponents but it is much more effective at stage level and even more so below it.
~~ some situations would excludes characters like Pit or Snake who could fly over some of your edgeguarding attacks.
~~~I want to stress this is SOME of the ways I handle edgeguarding and not everything under the sun is listed and by all means none are 100% effective. These are examples.

 

[2wice]

I've been out because of school and all, but I've just read the comments. To Orly, winning "admirably" isn't really what is being asked... winning is winning and if u have to win then u winning is all that matters, but when you have to really "work" to win while others just just skip by and just win just because other characters that they use are more effective to kill than that's a different matter. I AM a very decent Samus player and I don't lose that often but to get beaten by someone that I KNOW that isn't better than me just because they use an "imba" character pisses me off... Samus players has to play a defensive style and I'm ok with that but when I have to wait for the opponent to get ot 200% for me to actually try to kill then that is sad; because that is part of my game play now. Sorry to say but it is true. I don't even to to kill till then, unless if i try to meteor before hand because it's too risky...

I've heard that Sakura (I think that's how his name is spelled) intentionally made it so that "Brawl" players would USE items... and if that's the case, and if he intentionally did that, than WE have to use the smash ball and HAVE to become ZSS. Then that changes EVERYTHING! We would have to put the Smash ball into tournament (as much as I hate items)... If the game creator means the a specific game to play a certain way and developed certains characters to be balanced with the "item" involved than it's hard press to not... I really think that Samus as a "competetive" character in the eyes of Sakura, the developer, NEEDS the smash ball, which in my opinion is ********, because items shows LESS skill, and even less thought by the developers.

 

[2wice]

Sorry about the later half of my comment, it wasn't thought out corrected and half "drunk", but the thought is there...

If the game creator wants the game to play a specific way and to develop certain characters to be balanced with the "item" involved than it's hard press not... I really think that Samus as a "competetive" character in the eyes of Sakura, the developer, she NEEDS the smash ball, which in my opinion is ********, because items shows LESS skill and more of luck.

 

[2wice]

I think a lot of you would be surprised at how powerful her utilt is.

Also, her Utilt has seriously been nerfed...

 

[bezerker08]

yeah samus is completely different.


not bad at all, but different.

Ive won plenty of matches against almost every character with her, I just have trouble with pit.
But I guess that's understandable -.-

 

[0RLY]

Up-angled fsmash kills 10% sooner than a normal angled fsmash. Testing done by yours truely. From the center of FD, I can kill sonic at 139% with a normal fsmash, 129% when it's upangled. Killing isn't that hard for Samus if you know what you're doing.