The NEW and IMPROVED chaingrab guide for the 2011 IC Main that doesn't like tripping

[-LzR-]

I don't press it hard. I do it gently. My timing just seems to suck and I can't adjust it right...

 

[-LzR-]

Bump. I'm starting to get this down. I really like it, probably my favorite way to chaingrab. This also helped me chaingrab characters I used to have trouble with.

 

[MechaWave]

lol I can only dthrow CG.

 

[Attila_]

Question.

Aside from being harder, how is this difference from the bthrow buffered forward throw cg?

Do you only trip if the bthrow is not buffered?

 

[Rubberbandman]

shmot, whether or not the back throw is buffered doesnt matter. What matter is that in a normal CG (p.Bthrow -> n.Fthrow/n.Dthtrow) nana runs the chance of tripping because of the fact that when you pivot grab, you have to intiate a dash. There are ways around this of course, one of which being Lux's.

tl;dr - You trip from pivot grabs, and the standard CG has pivot grabs in it.

 

[Attila_]

thanks for clearing that up.

i was unsure what the actual difference was.

are there any videos of someone using this successfully in real matches?

 

[l!nk_aut]

I still fudging hate fthrowing from popo to nana.

BTW: Am I the only one who'd want a video in the first post? I made one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dev8yzPEqlM

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i just watched this video. i actually do it a little differently and it's still a tripless one. i do both this and based on spacing i turn popo back around so the he is facing nana when she back throws and i catch them like that. whats funny is that it makes you move backward across the stage until you do the normal version and start moving back the other way. whats even funnier is that i didn't know about the normal version until i did it on accident and then realized that was what he must have meant.

 

[Life]

bthrow regrab? what's that?

Spoiler

Yes, still complaining because I can't CG
-_____________________________________-

 

[Roller]

Complex, find me at HOPE. I'll help you out.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

have most of you guys like mastered this already? because I've been practicing this thing since i saw the thread (which was probably a couple days after the OP was made) and all I can do is get the first fthrow to nana and then the back throw to popo but I always mess up trying to fthrow back to nana.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i can do my little mix of this pretty consistent and i just started practicing this.

 

[DeLux]

@Jimmy -I will use this 90% of the time in tournament.

There are a few days where I feel like, "It's just going to one of those days." where I can't really CG with my primary option. This actually happened to me at my tourney yesterday lol

At which point I will throw out various various backup CGs such as Dthrow Dthrow, Bthrow Dthrow, hobbling. Depends on the stage or character.

@ Marharba - The type of CG you're using has been used as a common method of solving the issue of Nana grabbing at the ledge, preventing a regrab from Popo. If I had any tech skill under pressure at all, I would use this. I generally feel more comfortable doing the Nana bthrow > Popo Dash dance to pivot grab because it also functionally turns the climbers around.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

dam then i guess I'm just one of those people that picks up things extremely slow

 

[Xubble]

I can somehow not do the normal variation, but pull off the opposite:

Popo bthrow > Nana fthrow > repeat

I'm not really sure why. I think the 6 frame delay with Nana helps me time the grab. >_>

 

[DeLux]

PBthrow NFthrow is very common and most likely done in a non-tripless fashion.

 

[Xubble]

It doesn't require pivot or dash grabs, and it just feels a lot easier. The only problem I have is timing the first Nana regrab. After that, it's like they're spaced perfectly.

 

[DeLux]

Unless soft turned (aka letting the game mechanics turn Nana for you), a PBthrow CG involves a Nana dash and Pivot grab.

 

[Life]

@roller

Thanks, but I'm doing this for my own amusement/health more than anything. Also, finally found a character I can CG okay (GnW), averaging 30-50% and nearly hit 100% once... I just have to get started once or twice so I know the rhythm (I'm a musician so I tend to think in those terms)

 

[Xubble]

Unless soft turned (aka letting the game mechanics turn Nana for you), a PBthrow CG involves a Nana dash and Pivot grab.

I'm positive it's soft turned. And I figured out how to make the spacing easier for the first turnaround regrab:

Pfthrow > Nfthrow > Pbthrow > Nfthrow > Pbthrow > ... > Nana Usmash to kill.

I can do it consistently on the Battlefield platforms. :D

 

[DeLux]

Not sure what BF platforms have to do with anything in terms of being able to CG. Can you do it on Jigglypuff?

Make a video of the CG and I'll tell you if you're soft turning it or not. The only player that I've seen to consistently (and I use "consistently" loosely lol) soft turn a Bthrow CG in tournament play has been Myo in Europe. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the level of either timing or technical input precision needed to execute it on light characters is much more difficult to do than the variation advocated in the OP.

 

[Xubble]

I can do it on Jigglypuff I believe, but Nana's spacing seems to be very strict for some characters. I haven't tested it on all of them, but I'll have a list up showing difficulty as soon as I can.

And I mentioned BF platforms because despite my using pfthrow to get spacing right, it didn't have any major interference with how much space I needed to actually pull off the CG.

Edit: I recall GW and Squirtle being fairly easy to do it to, I suspect it's the same for the Puff. Note that I haven't even perfected regrabbing all characters out of fthrow yet, so my variation of this CG might be cake for someone with actual skill with ICs.

 

[DeLux]

Congrats, if you're doing it on jigglypuff, you are literally hitting a one frame window for regrab on a consistent basis lol. One frame too early, Nana will grab the wrong direction. One frame too late, and the grab whiffs. (Assuming percents over like 45-60)

I think it's troublesome that one would need to use previous throws in order to space a CG tbh. It's why the Bthrow CG is fairly difficult for people to "space" on Ness and Lucas and what makes them hard to CG.

There are also some buffering issues, but I don't remember what I noted down off the top of my head back when I did CG frame testing on bthrow. I do remember the cureall for the buffer windows was to be gentle with the analog stick. Which is why I came up with the OP version because it just let's people do w/e they want for the most part.

IMO there is no "wrong" CG if it's tripless and theoretically unmashable. I just want to make sure what you're doing fits that bill

 

[Xubble]

I could do it a couple times on Jiggs. Not consistently, but I'm attributing that to my lack of IC tech skill. It's definitely tripless. But it'll take me some time to perform it fast enough to be unmashable.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Yo Roller hit me up at hope and give me tips on this

 

[Life]

/hope4 = noob ICs seminar?

Just CG'd GnW to 132%. feelsgoodman.jpg (except I whiffed the usmash finisher, but eh)

This is really difficult on heavy characters for some reason though. I can't get the regrab from bthrowing Snake at all. I think it's a spacing thing more than a timing thing.

But I'd rather get it down on light characters before I worry about heavier ones sooooo yeah.

fosho: The hardest part is getting started. Once you can get to about 4 throws, suddenly it becomes a lot easier because you kind of fall into a rhythm. It's just setting up the initial spacing that takes the most work.

ONE MORE THING :uncle:

I think fthrow-usmash is an easier finisher than dthrow-usmash, at least on lighter characters, because when I tried it dthrow went too quickly for my usmash to come out. Just a thought. Might need another grab due to staleness/DI though, IDK for sure.

 

[ch33s3]

You just said nothing that couldn't be answered with "it's just personal preference".

 

[DeLux]

To be Clear, it's Pfthrow to NUthrow to PUsmash, using the tap up on the control stick to input both the Uthrow and the Usmash.

Or P Fthrow to NDthrow to PFsmash, using the cstick + attack to charge the Fsmash and sweet spot it out of dthrow

If done correctly on both, you get more charge time than an Fthrow assuming no pummels. If there are pummels, it's sort of a crap shoot and things just go flying off the screen because a pummel lasts half the max charge time already.

 

[Xubble]

YEEEEES I figured out the original variant. A lot easier than I thought it was. My variation seems to be easier on larger characters like DK and Bowser. At least for me it is. Regardless, yippee for tech skill level up! :3

 

[Life]

Incom vs reading the OP
Current score: 0-2

Anyway, Marth is also easy to cg for some reason. I think I'm starting to get okay at this, although I could do a lot better too (I rarely get the zero-death).

Also, realized you can also uthrow into uair/bair. Requires a higher percent than usmash (and reasonable stage position for bair) so it's not as good, but it's an option if your opponent is at high percents and not dead for whatever reason.

 

[Xubble]

I can pull off the 0-death on Marth, DK, and Bowser so far. I got pretty good timing with Ike, Pit, and Yoshi.

Lucas = blaaaaaargh.

 

[DeLux]

Also, realized you can also uthrow into uair/bair. Requires a higher percent than usmash (and reasonable stage position for bair) so it's not as good, but it's an option if your opponent is at high percents and not dead for whatever reason.

Outside of weird situations, Smash finisher wins it. I know people (cough Hylian cough lain cough) have been doing aerials as finishers to look flashy since like, 2008.

I can pull off the 0-death on Marth, DK, and Bowser so far. I got pretty good timing with Ike, Pit, and Yoshi.

Lucas = blaaaaaargh.

The Fthrow timing is the same for every character. The Bthrow timing can be done on visual cues for every character. At least that's how I do it.

I don't bother doing this with Lucas. I will Dthrow Lucas across the stage before trying a single Fthrow.

 

[Xubble]

I don't really know anybody who plays as Lucas in my area, so I think I'm in the clear for that for now. >_>

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Watch the IC's vs Marth part, it has this CG all over it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehp4e4M8a-c

 

[Xubble]

That poor Marth got raaaaaped.

I did this to a Pit player today. He was ragin' bad.