The Never Ending Problem.. ~ Please Read

[Ziodyne]

he's supporting your decision to play as doc

good luck with ur games man

 

[Dark Phazon]

he's supporting your decision to play as doc

good luck with ur games man

Thank you all so much!
Defenetly nu doubt ima stick With Dr.Mario & Samus but I REALLLYYY!! Like Mewtwo but i dunno if he will go well against my friends Falco even though i used to Decent against his Falco with Mewtwp but i would still end up losing by 1 or 2 stock everytime..

But the Wavedashing has made me better with Mewtwo more Alot more then i have ever been with him!

If i do drop him then its locked in

Samus
Dr.Mario
Ganondorf!

No one else and no one less.

 

[Shadow Huan]

mewtwo is a hard character to learn and requires more technicality to play than a lot of people realize (till they try doing taj stuff themselves), and as someone who started out in the very beginning of learning advanced techs with mewtwo, i'd strongly suggest against learning him first.

in a similar vein of thought, Samus requires a lot of mindgames, tricksies and meticulous spacing to be successful

for learning the advanced techs with an easy character Doc, Mario and Shiek are the easiest to learn.

imo go with the Doc for your first "serious" character, major props for not wanting to take the easy way out with Shiek lol

 

[EbAgItachi]

Others have said it already and I'm sure you already started doing so, but study those Advanced How to Play videos and practice each technique until you don't have to think about doing them anymore. They will INSTANTLY improve your game and how you approach any situation. That doesn't mean you'll start winning every game, but at least you'll have more options and an actual chance of staying even with your friend. I doubt your friend got better on accident. If you want to catch up or take the lead, you're gonna have to work hard for it, but it'll be worth it when you see your own improvement.

As for your match-up issues (mainly Falco, I main him and I still hate playing against him lol) trust me when I say you're blowing it out of proportion. It sounds like your friend isn't shooting lasers at all which gives you a HUGE advantage regardless of what character you're using. I don't think it's wise of you to drop Luigi for Mewtwo dude.

Watch this combo video, this is a dude I play with very frequently and he's the best player in our region at the moment. Watch what he does to Falcos (myself included) and try some of the combos on your friend next time you play him. Luigi has some absolutely DEVASTATING combos on fast fallers, especially Fox and Falco and C Fal at lower percents, so this can work out great for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uos_Uig7Qtg

Also, don't think of trying the obviously better characters as selling out. I mean, it shouldn't be surprising that your friend, who has probably been practicing on his own is ****** you with:

C Fal - the scariest character to play against if you don't tech or react appropriately to what he's doing
Falco - Arguably the best character in the game (Fox/Falco are both ridiculous at the high level)

While you're using:

Ganon - Powerful, but very slow and pretty much rendered useless if you don't implement wavedashes and wavelands on all stages especially ones with platforms.

Samus - She has her tricks and to use her efficiently requires a lot of precision (Jabs/Tilts/Up-b out of Shield, stuff like that). And of course, Wavedashing/wavelanding on/off platforms and onto stage from the ledges.

Luigi - Useless without proper wavedash/momentum control. You'll need to master stuff like Short hop double aerials (Short hop rising Up-Air ---> Falling Neutral air is the most ******** thing to have to deal with for me personally, not to mention short hop double Forward air is amazing for Luigi)

All the characters you use are vastly out classed by Falco and C Fal, for the most part at least. I'm not telling you to switch to a high tier, I'm saying try learning a few things with Marth or someone from a higher tier so you can learn how to deal with a lot of the bull**** Falco does. Fight fire with fire man. I recommend learning (not switching, unless you like him a lot afterwards) Marth to counter Falco, chain-grabs are nothing to be taken lightly and any other space animal main will tell you the same. He does good against C Fal as well. See what's so good about the high tiers and you can apply that to your low tiers.

 

[RFrizzle]

This has got to be a joke abandon this thread

 

[Dark Phazon]

mewtwo is a hard character to learn and requires more technicality to play than a lot of people realize (till they try doing taj stuff themselves), and as someone who started out in the very beginning of learning advanced techs with mewtwo, i'd strongly suggest against learning him first.

in a similar vein of thought, Samus requires a lot of mindgames, tricksies and meticulous spacing to be successful

for learning the advanced techs with an easy character Doc, Mario and Shiek are the easiest to learn.

imo go with the Doc for your first "serious" character, major props for not wanting to take the easy way out with Shiek lol

Hmmm..yh your right..Mewtwo just aint..worth it..his moves are too slow hes too weak and hes too light..hes got way to many negative stuff.. but hes so god damn cool..its easy to shorthop and wavedash with him though

Whats most important to me whats #1 for me is picking characters i LIKE!

Dr.Mario & Samus are locked in no doubt im just having trouble finding my 3rd character i think its out of

Roy
G&W
Ganondorf

I like them 3 characters i think Roy/G&W/Mewtwo are in the same tier right? so which one is the most rewarding to play as? most damaging?

Hmm..thank you greatly to the guy below me too i guess your right if i can become very used to the high tiers and the mechanics become default to me then applying them to the lower tiers will be simple and feel natural/easy.

Im playing right now ima try Roy right now!.

Also my friend only spams lazors at the start of the match and when were really far apart he doesnt do no crazy shorthop wavvedashing lazors where he can fire and move at the same time like i have seen everyone do in videos thank god...

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

Roy
G&W
Ganondorf

I like them 3 characters i think Roy/G&W/Mewtwo are in the same tier right? so which one is the most rewarding to play as? most damaging?

I really like it when a person starts a thread and asks for improvement but dude you can look stuff like the tier lists on your own its on the front page of the website XD

Also to answer your question Ganondorf is way higher in the tier list and its pretty much him as far as damaging goes. You should just stick to one character though learning three makes your life way harder than it should be.

 

[Shadow Huan]

why not just learn all the stuff you can with Doc then apply it to other characters after you've got it down? learning 1 character is easier than learning 3

if your friend's "secret weapon" is falco, make yours Doc?

Spoiler

also if this is a troll thread it's a good one lol

 

[Dark Phazon]

why not just learn all the stuff you can with Doc then apply it to other characters after you've got it down? learning 1 character is easier than learning 3

if your friend's "secret weapon" is falco, make yours Doc?

Spoiler

also if this is a troll thread it's a good one lol

I wouldnt spend all my time and effort just to troll..this 100/ real and serious!!

Also im trying out Marth and your sooo right its more about mastering Wavedash movement in general then master any character because once i master wavedashing it eliminates the barrier i had to link certain moves and throws it will all fall in place!

 

[Shadow Huan]

JC grabbing is also very very important

and i wasn't accusing you of trolling, i was giving props just in case it turned out you were, i certainly didn't think you were lol

 

[Dark Phazon]

JC grabbing is also very very important

and i wasn't accusing you of trolling, i was giving props just in case it turned out you were, i certainly didn't think you were lol

What the hell is ''JC Grabbing?'' & How do you do it?

Also omg Roy counter attack to Falco's Up (B) when he tries to get on stage is soooo cruel...

 

[EbAgItachi]

JC stands for Jump Cancel. Basically, take any character you're using and do: Dash ---> Grab, and you'll see the character lean over before they grab. Instead, the best way to dash grab is to cancel out that leaning portion, it's almost like they stumble, by inputting a jump (up on the control stick/X/Y) and THEN hitting Z to grab. Canceling the jump makes it so you still get your dash out, but your standing grab comes out instead of your dashing grab. Standing grabs don't make the character lean over or stumble, so there's less lag if you want to do something else immediately after. It's very useful.

There are many uses for jump canceling. The most common ones would probably be JC grabs (useful for the whole character list), JC up Smash for Fox (all good Fox players do this all the time), and JC shines (JCs are what allow spacies to do things like multishine and shine-->grab.)

 

[EbAgItachi]

What the hell is ''JC Grabbing?'' & How do you do it?

Also omg Roy counter attack to Falco's Up (B) when he tries to get on stage is soooo cruel...

JC stands for Jump Cancel. Basically, take any character you're using and do: Dash ---> Grab, and you'll see the character lean over before they grab. Instead, the best way to dash grab is to cancel out that leaning portion, it's almost like they stumble, by inputting a jump (up on the control stick/X/Y) and THEN hitting Z to grab. Canceling the jump makes it so you still get your dash out, but your standing grab comes out instead of your dashing grab. Standing grabs don't make the character lean over or stumble, so there's less lag if you want to do something else immediately after. It's very useful.

There are many uses for jump canceling. The most common ones would probably be JC grabs (useful for the whole character list), JC up Smash for Fox (all good Fox players do this all the time), and JC shines (JCs are what allow spacies to do things like multishine and shine-->grab.)

 

[Dark Phazon]

Oww i see i fully understand and great explanation guys i can do it already! very easy.

it maybe something big in tourney mlg play but i dont think it will make a huge help against my friend but thanks anyway every little helps!

Seriously i cant thank all of you enough for your advice and support!

I think ima leave Ganon..his wavedash timing is too slow and annoying..it disrupts my play...i think i be better of using Roy instead.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

suck it up and just look at the char specific threads, this is not worthy of disscussion. seriously there are lots of people who know all the terms and advanced techs that need advice on matchups and notes on videos of them playing. this is just a waste of time, you will never get better at melee unless you practice and seek to know more. this has nothing to do with char choice and more to do with your confidence in yourself and your knowledge about the game. we could literally teach you every advanced tech and term or just link you to some good knowledge packed threads http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176650 http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295524 these are all easy to find on this forum but you are obviously too lazy to really want to improve and just want to beat your friend. if this is the case ducking with puff will avoid his lasers, then he approaches with his dair, shield grab it and throw him off the stage. once he is off the stage a simple bair, fair or fsmash will kill him at most percents if you grab the ledge
roy is garbage against even scrubby falco
oh careful not to get hit by his side-b recovery

 

[Dark Phazon]

Dude...i already do most of the advanced techs that are important..i aint a newcomer you know..

Shorthop
Fast Fall
L-Cancel
Tech
Wavedash
Waveland
JC Grab
Edge Guard

These are all the stuff i do atm i think its enough..i dont wanna be Tournament level..its too late for that.. i just wanna destroy my friends falco and falcon in all honesty.

I went from no wavedashing to decent wavedashing in a couple hours i am learning! from you lots advice, support and youtube videos! im getting better cut me some slack pardon me if im not as good as you (-_-)... everyone has to learn..just that this time i am very very veryy late to class...

 

[JKJ]

I didn't mean to sound like I was insulting your friend. I was merely saying that you were both scrubs (but not in a bad way, we were all scrubs once. I'm still a scrub by tournament standards) and that learning from those videos and that thread would give you incredible leverage over your friend.
Everyone says they don't want to be tournament level at first
Once you learn these advanced techniques, you will destroy your friend, and then what? You will have nobody to play against who can challenge you. You will seek out somebody, anybody to play against. You will find a low level tournament player to play with. They will destroy you, and then you will work to beat them. But then what?
All in due time, my friend. All in due time. Welcome to the tournament scene.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I didn't mean to sound like I was insulting your friend. I was merely saying that you were both scrubs (but not in a bad way, we were all scrubs once. I'm still a scrub by tournament standards) and that learning from those videos and that thread would give you incredible leverage over your friend.
Everyone says they don't want to be tournament level at first
Once you learn these advanced techniques, you will destroy your friend, and then what? You will have nobody to play against who can challenge you. You will seek out somebody, anybody to play against. You will find a low level tournament player to play with. They will destroy you, and then you will work to beat them. But then what?
All in due time, my friend. All in due time. Welcome to the tournament scene.

Loool i like you ~ Naa man in all honesty seriously this game is way to old and its not even online...and trust me no tourneys for this game go down were im from..

I just seriously wanna beat my friend but even if i do beat him i wanna perfect my self now..i gotta get the Wavedashing/Combos/DI's Perfect like Breathing.

 

[Riio]

I didn't mean to sound like I was insulting your friend. I was merely saying that you were both scrubs (but not in a bad way, we were all scrubs once. I'm still a scrub by tournament standards) and that learning from those videos and that thread would give you incredible leverage over your friend.
Everyone says they don't want to be tournament level at first
Once you learn these advanced techniques, you will destroy your friend, and then what? You will have nobody to play against who can challenge you. You will seek out somebody, anybody to play against. You will find a low level tournament player to play with. They will destroy you, and then you will work to beat them. But then what?
All in due time, my friend. All in due time. Welcome to the tournament scene.

mad cute post. 8/10

 

[Bones0]

Pick your favorite character and watch a combo video for them. Falco gets rolfstomped by combos, so if you can just get a few short and simple combos to work consistently there's no way he should be able to keep up doing stuff like laser to grabs. Other than that, I will just recommend full hopping out of shield after you shield a laser, and just use your down aerial to hit him as he runs under you. Also focus on hitting him off the sides so he has to recover a lot. Keep him pinned on the ledge and throw out attacks that have long duration so it will trade with whatever he does to get off the ledge and he won't be able to get back.

Good luck. ^_^

 

[poega]

Chain-grabbing is super-important (and easy) on spacies like falco. It will make it sooo much easier to beat him. Just get him to about 20% and upthrow if u play doc (or luigi i believe) then learn to react to DI (practice on FD vs lvl 3-4 falco). At about 90% u can upthrow him into fairs and ****

 

[KrIsP!]

You can't spam moves in melee and win. Standing in the middle of the stage waiting to tipper fsmash with marth is something easily avoided but your friend won't do **** and you'll destroy hm. If he calls it spamming learn to do the simplest ****.

Honestly the smallest amount of practice will help you steamroll your friend. Learn to wavedash. Run up, wd back, fsmash. lol

 

[Dark Phazon]

You can't spam moves in melee and win. Standing in the middle of the stage waiting to tipper fsmash with marth is something easily avoided but your friend won't do **** and you'll destroy hm. If he calls it spamming learn to do the simplest ****.

Honestly the smallest amount of practice will help you steamroll your friend. Learn to wavedash. Run up, wd back, fsmash. lol

Yes! this is what im getting at! im tryna get my movementbon point thats whats more important to me then anything!

Quickly wavedashing back then forward smash imo will help me the most and is simple.

I may drop having a 3rd char atm and just concentrate on Dr.Mario and Samus because i know for certain ima keep those 2 chars.

Again thank you everyone. I just started up melee right now first time today lets hope i still have my skills.

 

[KrIsP!]

Focus on doc. Check out a guide on the doc boards. Learn dash cancel down smash and stuff that ends in fair.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Focus on doc. Check out a guide on the doc boards. Learn dash cancel down smash and stuff that ends in fair.

Ok yh cool. Damn Dr.Mario is seriously beast.

My Samus is coming along pretty nice too? i have found some new killer combos with her but they most probly wouldnt work with a human.

 

[Bing]

Samus is actually pretty solid herself, she has combos but she's also pretty good for micro combos(Like Down throw, downsmash)

Honestly I would recommend using Marth, at lower levels of play(I mean no disrespect) Marth is really good vs spacies(Fox and Falco), especially in the grab game. You can chain grab with up throw fairly easily and then uptilt/Up air. If you're near the ledge you can forward throw and if your back is to the ledge down throw them off the stage, run off the stage and hit them with a forward air for the stock. Things like this are phenomenal vs Falco.

 

[Bones0]

I sincerely disagree with just telling him to use another character. Being comfortable with your options is the most important thing at low level. The player that wins is almost always the person who had the most tricks up his sleeve that he was able to execute. Trying to switch to Marth or someone else and learn a bunch of new tricks that beat all of theirs will almost never work.

 

[Violence]

Is this Mahone's troll account?

 

[Dark Phazon]

Samus is actually pretty solid herself, she has combos but she's also pretty good for micro combos(Like Down throw, downsmash)

Honestly I would recommend using Marth, at lower levels of play(I mean no disrespect) Marth is really good vs spacies(Fox and Falco), especially in the grab game. You can chain grab with up throw fairly easily and then uptilt/Up air. If you're near the ledge you can forward throw and if your back is to the ledge down throw them off the stage, run off the stage and hit them with a forward air for the stock. Things like this are phenomenal vs Falco.

I greatly appreciate your suggestion but i really dont like swordsman the only one im ok with is Roy and hes just too weak..not good enough..compared to Doc and Samus.

Same with Mewtwo...too much work not enough reward..i did try marth though because alotta people suggested i do to atleast fluently learn the wavedash movement then slip back to medium and below tiers.

But damn no lie Marth is a very good character! hes stronger, heavier & faster then Roy! thats just plain ********..well it is what it is..also seems like he has more range?

But yh Loving metroid and all Samus for sure and i used to be doc kinda alot wayyyyy long ago so i got love for him too.

i dont know about a 3rd char..im decent with Ganon but havent found Wavedashing much benefit with him except quick dash back and forward smash...

Plus i already stated im not gonna use

Fox
Falco
Peach
Sheik
Marth

And its not just because there the most used i dont like em either

 

[EbAgItachi]

I sincerely disagree with just telling him to use another character. Being comfortable with your options is the most important thing at low level. The player that wins is almost always the person who had the most tricks up his sleeve that he was able to execute. Trying to switch to Marth or someone else and learn a bunch of new tricks that beat all of theirs will almost never work.

I see what you're saying, but to me it seems like he's just limiting himself on purpose by using low tiers and justifying it by saying he doesn't want to use high tiers AT ALL or just spam a decent move because it's effective. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with being comfortable/uncomfortable with any character and more with him not wanting his friend to call his characters moveset "cheap" or Marths F-Smash "OP". It doesn't seem realistic considering that at his current level, I think it's fair to say that he can still find any character comfortable if he shoves his pre-concieved idea about how he should play aside. He already mentioned that he like Roy's mechanics enjoyable and that he was comfortable with Roy. I don't see the logic in him forcing himself to not use the much more suited incarnation of Roy.

Being comfortable with your options is the most important thing at low level.

But he said in one of his posts that his friend pretty much left him with no options anyway. Him refusing to try a character who's more equipped to counter the issue just seems unreasonable.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I see what you're saying, but to me it seems like he's just limiting himself on purpose by using low tiers and justifying it by saying he doesn't want to use high tiers AT ALL or just spam a decent move because it's effective. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with being comfortable/uncomfortable with any character and more with him not wanting his friend to call his characters moveset "cheap" or Marths F-Smash "OP". It doesn't seem realistic considering that at his current level, I think it's fair to say that he can still find any character comfortable if he shoves his pre-concieved idea about how he should play aside. He already mentioned that he like Roy's mechanics enjoyable and that he was comfortable with Roy. I don't see the logic in him forcing himself to not use the much more suited incarnation of Roy.



But he said in one of his posts that his friend pretty much left him with no options anyway. Him refusing to try a character who's more equipped to counter the issue just seems unreasonable.

Hmmm..i hear that and i understand were your coming from but in all honesty i seriously just dont like Fox/Falco for many reasons.

- There too fast and i dont like lightweights that
just doesnt go for Smash it goes for many games a big one is mario kart i always perfer heavyweights i like the beastly power

- I aint gonna lie them being over used is a reason too and even more more honesty if you lot think im just pulling excuses out my A** i admit they take too much skill to use effectivly.

And i dont plan on entering tourneys or making youtube combo videos i just wanna finally find some characters i like and better my skills and confidence to ultimately beat my friend but also feel like i truly knew what melee was about competetivly and feel like i understood the game and why its loved worldwide.

Also Peach & Sheik i dont like them at all i never be peach in any mario games at all i always be bowser i love bowser hes my #1 char in every mario kart i even have a bowser soft cuddly toy.

But Bowser is just too horrible in melee..out of all the times i have gone 1 on 1 with my friends Cpt.Falcon with bowser i probly have only beaten him 2 or 3 times out of like 30 matches..and my friend has complimented me many times saying im sick with bowser and gives me my ratings.. i have crushed my other friends with bowser before but i have never beaten my rival friends Falco with bowser not even once..

Dr.Mario ~ I like mario but i also perfer power so ofc its the Doc i used to play as him longg time agoo too i like him hes good and hes funny you can pull some frustrating lines to humilate when you win with him such as
''ima beat you so bad your gonna have to go to
the hospital were but docs not giving you any treatment xD'' or ''Can i prescribe something for that A** whupping you just had?''

Samus ~ I dont think i need a explanation why i
like samus..plus it will take to long...

Roy ~ Ok yes i dont like swordsman I dont hate Marth..but i like Roy better he looks cooler plus his fire moves are cool and atleast he screams in english sorta..lol ok weak reasons i know and i did say hes just not good enough so it is stupid its only right i be marth i guess..he is soo much better then Roy no doubt..

Ganondorf ~ i dont play Zelda at all really but hes just badass proberly the same reason why people would like Ridley even though they dont play metroid. Thing is I dunno if its just me but Wavedashing with Ganon i havent/cant seem to find much benefit or new combos.. seems like the most usefull thing is just running in then quickly wavedash back then forward smash..(-_-) also his wavedash timing is different from Docs and Samus..its alot slower..

When i switch from Doc and Samus my movement is still same nice fluent.

Also seems like i havent gained much if not no new experience with Ganondorf since i start wavedashing..dunno if its just me..i checked the Ganon smash boards but didnt find anything..even watched some Ganon combo vidoes..theres not much..except spamming his Aerial Up (A) backwards to keep em off stage and like L-Cancel spamming destroying people with his Aerial down (A)..

Hmmm...If i cant find anything with Ganon i might switch to Marth.

Another reason is with high tiers theres soo much stuff and Marths gonna take the most work were as theres 10000 of Killer Uber Pro Marths/Sheiks/Foxs & Falcos.

Trust me..if the chars were more fairly balanced in this game my 3 best chars would be without a second thought.

Bowser
Mewtwo
Samus

 

[Stratocaster]

Yes, really the best reason to play doc is the doctor themed trash talk. I think everyone here can agree with that. Mario only gets plumber themed trash talk, and that's why Mario is D tier while Doc is C tier.

 

[Bing]

hmm, sorry I didnt see your list of "I wont use" characters.

But yeah, Doc and Samus are both pretty solid characters, Samus has a lot of tricks and Doc is Doc.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Damn..just watched some marth vids!! holy cow so to use Marth good you gotta be a Juggler! my Juggling with Roy was decent and that was before i used to watch these combo videos on youtube and before i was wavedashing!

If i do Pick Marth ofc i wont get him tourney level but im pretty sure i can get good enough with him to beat my friends Falco. Also like going by charts and stuff or whatever you lot go by is Marth a good matchup against Falco?

 

[KrIsP!]

Not exactly but he's easy to pick up at first and can wreck a low level falco hard. At a tournament it'd be different but if your friend isn't shining, pillaring and using lasers you'll probably wreck with grabs and tilts lol

 

[Dark Phazon]

Is there anything that Roy does is better than Marth?

 

[EbAgItachi]

Ganondorf ~ i dont play Zelda at all really but hes just badass proberly the same reason why people would like Ridley even though they dont play metroid. Thing is I dunno if its just me but Wavedashing with Ganon i havent/cant seem to find much benefit or new combos.. seems like the most usefull thing is just running in then quickly wavedash back then forward smash..(-_-) also his wavedash timing is different from Docs and Samus..its alot slower..

When i switch from Doc and Samus my movement is still same nice fluent.

Also seems like i havent gained much if not no new experience with Ganondorf since i start wavedashing..dunno if its just me..i checked the Ganon smash boards but didnt find anything..even watched some Ganon combo vidoes..theres not much..except spamming his Aerial Up (A) backwards to keep em off stage and like L-Cancel spamming destroying people with his Aerial down (A)..

Hmmm...If i cant find anything with Ganon i might switch to Marth.

I can give you some good advice for that Ganon bro. Don't drop him just cause he has a tricky wavedash, it'll be worth the trouble once you get it down.

#1 - You don't want to use Ganon's Forward smash...ever. It's a really, really terrible option and should only be usd if you pop someone up with Dair, (they'll be stuck in hitstun long enough for F-smash to be viable) or if you throw a fast faller up and they have a high %, you can read their DI and punish with F-smash. That being said, you still have way better options like Fair/Uair/Bair depending on the situation stagewise is. For the most part F-smash is no bueno and you should switch it out with Fair. If you watched any decent Ganon vids, you probably noticed that the most common approach is short hop approaching Fair. That **** is reaaaaly scary.

#2 - Every character functions differently, so they're wavedashes are performed differently as well. Realize that switching wavedashes between Doc and Samus is easier than switching to Ganon because their differences are lesser. You have to play Ganon like he's Ganon, not like Samus or Doc. That approach you were talking about (Dash forward--->Wavedash back--->Fsmash) works really well for Samus and Doc, but it's awful for Ganon, so don't do it lol. Dont attempt Ganons wavedash like he's any other character besides Ganon.

Is there anything that Roy does is better than Marth?

Not really. Some of his stuff has more knockback (Hilted Fsmash/counter/Full sword dance combos *not 100% sure about that one*) Roy is very bad compared to Marth.. but he is cooler I'll give him that lol.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I can give you some good advice for that Ganon bro. Don't drop him just cause he has a tricky wavedash, it'll be worth the trouble once you get it down.

#1 - You don't want to use Ganon's Forward smash...ever. It's a really, really terrible option and should only be usd if you pop someone up with Dair, (they'll be stuck in hitstun long enough for F-smash to be viable) or if you throw a fast faller up and they have a high %, you can read their DI and punish with F-smash. That being said, you still have way better options like Fair/Uair/Bair depending on the situation stagewise is. For the most part F-smash is no bueno and you should switch it out with Fair. If you watched any decent Ganon vids, you probably noticed that the most common approach is short hop approaching Fair. That **** is reaaaaly scary.

#2 - Every character functions differently, so they're wavedashes are performed differently as well. Realize that switching wavedashes between Doc and Samus is easier than switching to Ganon because their differences are lesser. You have to play Ganon like he's Ganon, not like Samus or Doc. That approach you were talking about (Dash forward--->Wavedash back--->Fsmash) works really well for Samus and Doc, but it's awful for Ganon, so don't do it lol. Dont attempt Ganons wavedash like he's any other character besides Ganon.




Not really. Some of his stuff has more knockback (Hilted Fsmash/counter/Full sword dance combos *not 100% sure about that one*) Roy is very bad compared to Marth.. but he is cooler I'll give him that lol.

Oww yh i know how to play heavies. I play alot more defensive with Ganon dont worry..Fsmash might not be good in pro play but i know wavedash back and forward smash my friend will fall for it trust me.

I dont really wanna drop ganon either my ganon pre wavedash had my friends falco by the balls everymatch but majority of the time he will still win. now i dash with Ganon and ima play better smarter i know i can beat him.

in high percent i upthrow his falco into up smash and it KO's him.

Please have you got any more ganon throw follow ups?

Also by watching ganon combo vids on youtube i can tell this is a bad thing but i hardly ever use his Aeraial up (A)..i just never find the best time to use it..all his other Aerials i use enough. I never user Guredo dragon and i use Wizard foot a bit. Most use on ground the quick jab and Left/right and down Tilts. Mostly Jab and down tilt because they have range and priority.

 

[The 2t]

Although a few others have already hinted at this, I'd just like to point something out.

Wavedashing is not some quick and dirty trick which will make you win at Smash, and learning to wavedash alone is probably not going to be enough for you to beat your friend. You'll often see less experienced players (like people on the IGN boards, for example) say things to like "I refuse to use exploits like wavedashing to win, sure if I learned to wavedash I'd win all the time but I have too much pride for that", but all that shows is that they don't actually understand what wavedashing is.

The reality is that your spacing, general practical matchup experience, character knowledge etc are always going to be worth more than the simple fact of whether or not you wavedash. Learning to wavedash by itself isn't a way of winning. It's just another option of movement - and it only becomes a useful tool when you've learned to use it meaningfully to compliment everything else in your game, which can take a long time.

Once you've been playing at a mid-high level for years, wavedashing is just another thing and it's really no big deal. Its importance tends to be exaggerated at low levels and I got the impression that the OP was thinking that way by reading some of his posts.

This is all very general, of course. There are some exceptions (like Luigi, which happens to be one of his characters) where wavedashing is actually his best form of movement, but even as Luigi you still have to use it meaningfully for it to have much of an impact.

 

[EbAgItachi]

Oww yh i know how to play heavies. I play alot more defensive with Ganon dont worry..Fsmash might not be good in pro play but i know wavedash back and forward smash my friend will fall for it trust me.

I dont really wanna drop ganon either my ganon pre wavedash had my friends falco by the balls everymatch but majority of the time he will still win. now i dash with Ganon and ima play better smarter i know i can beat him.

in high percent i upthrow his falco into up smash and it KO's him.

Please have you got any more ganon throw follow ups?

Also by watching ganon combo vids on youtube i can tell this is a bad thing but i hardly ever use his Aeraial up (A)..i just never find the best time to use it..all his other Aerials i use enough. I never user Guredo dragon and i use Wizard foot a bit. Most use on ground the quick jab and Left/right and down Tilts. Mostly Jab and down tilt because they have range and priority.

Watch this and study it closely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u-4omOZvjY

As you can see, Ganon (and C Fal) have to do a certain amount of guess work after they throw a spacie. When you have them grabbed you're two main options should be down throw or up throw, only switch it up when you know you can convert and follow effectively. Once you throw them (up or down) they're probably going to tech roll left or right. Thats where the guess work comes into play.

The most common **** for Ganon to try on Falco is: Grab-->Down throw--->Read their tech and react (you'll have to guess occasionaly)--->Dair to pop them up---> RE-GRAB--->Repeat until they're at a percent that a Bair/Fair/Uair will get them off stage or KO. The stomp---> Grab/Re-grab element is very crucial for Ganon. You can try it on computers with good results.