The Music Theory might have brought a deconfirmation...

[Deleted member]

Patterns can easily be broken.

Which also means the pattern of Music reveals can be broken.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

We know they do tie music to character reveals. They delayed the Animal Crossing music so that it would coincide with Isabelle's reveal.

But it's just a pattern that has happened over the course of revealing characters, and patterns like this one be broken on a dime if Nintendo wanted to.

 

[RouffWestie]

Music Theory already got disproven by Dark Samus, so it had to be adjusted to Music Theory v.2: "only unique characters count."
If a Pokemon newcomer is revealed, I wouldn't put it past the people who believe the theory to just change it again. "Only unique characters from Nintendo-created franchises count," or some nonsense like that.

 

[Calamitas]

Music Theory already got disproven by Dark Samus, so it had to be adjusted to Music Theory v.2: "only unique characters count."
If a Pokemon newcomer is revealed, I wouldn't put it past the people who believe the theory to just change it again. "Only unique characters from Nintendo-created franchises count," or some nonsense like that.

By that logic, the theory never stood to begin with, since the Mario series wasn't one of the first to get a track to go with Daisy. As far as I know, the theory has only ever been around in a way that accounts for Echoes.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

By that logic, the theory never stood to begin with, since the Mario series wasn't one of the first to get a track to go with Daisy. As far as I know, the theory has only ever been around in a way that accounts for Echoes.

Oh yeah, . This reveal and the reveal should have debunked the theory ages ago.

 

[Pro895YT]

Oh yeah, . This reveal and the reveal should have debunked the theory ages ago.

Music Theory does not count echo fighters, only unique fighters.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Music Theory does not count echo fighters, only unique fighters.

If it’s new fighters only, then explain why it happened with.

 

[Pro895YT]

https://www.smashbros.com/en_GB/fighter/25e.html
Roy echo. There.

 

[aarchak]

If it’s new fighters only, then explain why it happened with.

Except it didn't, "Gear Up For..." came out on the 22nd, and the song isn't from Awakening, so it has nothing to do with Chrom.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

https://www.smashbros.com/en_GB/fighter/25e.html
Roy echo. There.

You proved Chrom is an echo fighter. Well done, except that isn't what I asked you to explain. A Fire Emblem track is in line with tracks posted directly after ones building the hype for and . If the system doesn't apply to echos, then why was that song posted right after the other two?

Except it didn't, "Gear Up For..." came out on the 22nd, and the song isn't from Awakening, so it has nothing to do with Chrom.

By that logic, a track from Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire shouldn't bring a deconfirmation to a representative originating from Sun and Moon.

 

[aarchak]

By that logic, a track from Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire shouldn't bring a deconfirmation to a representative originating from Sun and Moon.

It doesn't, right.

 

[Pro895YT]

1. Good point, but it was likely posted to show that we will get no more FE reps. Music theory doesn't apply to fighters post-reveal, so a track posted after an echo being announced just deconfirms others from that franchise
2. Music tracks have been (and likely will remain as) one track per fighter. According to music theory, an ORAS song would account for newcomers (not echoes) for other generations, deconfirming Incineroar.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I doubt the people working the website post music to show no newcomers from the music's franchise are coming.

If the music theory turns out 100% correct, that would be an oversight on their part.

 

[Pro895YT]

But that's just a theory...
(insert overused and dead meme here)

 

[TheJutin]

Yes, he is only human, and he will get something wrong eventually, but he has still been right many times, and there are many factors that go into why an actual leaker might get something wrong. Characters may get scrapped late into development. There may be a faulty translation somewhere between extracting information and Vergeben's sources. One or more of Vergeben's sources might not be as reliable as they seem and he doesn't know it yet. They could feed Vergeben a hint of false information to ensure the safety of their job and keep feeding him real information. Vergeben may have threw in false information so his sources keep their jobs and continue to feed him real information. Those are just five examples in a leaking machine that has to be near perfect but not too perfect to continue to function for the people who want things spoiled for them.

Whatever his "sources" may be, they're proving to be credible. He has gotten stuff right on many occasions. It's not the bible or anything, but I am more inclined to trust his word over a fan created theory.

I don’t think we should say “he’s going to get something wrong.” Yes, he could very well get a source that’s not credible. But that doesn’t mean he has to get one wrong. Maybe his leaks altogether for other Games, but I don’t see “he’s going to get one wrong eventually” just for ultimate. And the “He’s only human” makes it sound like he’s guessing. He’s not. Obviously he has sources. I think it’s more of an if not when situation.

 

[Bandanna_Waddle_Dee]

Wait, so now the theory is that it only disconfirms characters from the game the track is based on? If we're going by the logic of "It was an OR/AS track so it doesn't disconfirm Incineroar, who's S/M" then that means:

- It was a SMB3 track so it doesn't disconfirm Geno, who's SMRPG
- It was a BOTW track so it doesn't disconfirm Skull Kid, who's MM
- It was a KAR track so it doesn't disconfirm Bandana Dee, who's RTDL+

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I don’t think we should say “he’s going to get something wrong.” Yes, he could very well get a source that’s not credible. But that doesn’t mean he has to get one wrong. Maybe his leaks altogether for other Games, but I don’t see “he’s going to get one wrong eventually” just for ultimate. And the “He’s only human” makes it sound like he’s guessing. He’s not. Obviously he has sources. I think it’s more of an if not when situation.

I was trying to imply that he isn’t an all knowing god or anything like that. Vergeben likely won’t find out if one of the characters his sources told him about gets scraped late into development process, or if something between Nintendo and him turned out to be the result of a poor translation. Clearly he has credible sources, and usually what he says about these games turns out to be true, but he is bound to get something wrong eventually because there are too many variables that are out of his control and his knowledge.

Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to leaks. I still trust him, but his word isn’t gospel.

But that's just a theory...
(insert overused and dead meme here)

That being said, I don’t have trust in the music theory.

One way or another, it’s the word of Vergeben, the person who leaked so much good content nobody could have predicted such as Ridley, against a fan created theory based on a small pattern of events that seem to exist just to build hype.

 

[Pro895YT]

Wait, so now the theory is that it only disconfirms characters from the game the track is based on? If we're going by the logic of "It was an OR/AS track so it doesn't disconfirm Incineroar, who's S/M" then that means:

- It was a SMB3 track so it doesn't disconfirm Geno, who's SMRPG
- It was a BOTW track so it doesn't disconfirm Skull Kid, who's MM
- It was a KAR track so it doesn't disconfirm Bandana Dee, who's RTDL+

To begin, I have my doubts that Bandana Dee will make base game. However you slice it, he would be little to add to hype to a wide audience. He could make it as an assist or stage hazard, though.
Geno is a unique case, being developed and owned by both Sqaure and Nintendo. I'm unsure that Geno counts as a Mario character, but I doubt it because of third-party involvement.
Skull Kid would be a viable candidate for base game. With the Moon getting its own assist trophy, he seems all the more plausible. SSBU's theme of heroes versus villains could include Skull Kid as a boss. Otherwise, he is being developed as post-launch content, not DLC.

I was trying to imply that he isn’t an all knowing god or anything like that. Vergeben likely won’t find out if one of the characters his sources told him about gets scraped late into development process, or if something between Nintendo and him turned out to be the result of a poor translation. Clearly he has credible sources, and usually what he says about these games turns out to be true, but he is bound to get something wrong eventually because there are too many variables that are out of his control and his knowledge.

Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to leaks. I still trust him, but his word isn’t gospel.

That being said, I don’t have trust in the music theory.

One way or another, it’s the word Vergeben, the person who leaked so much good content nobody could have predicted such as Ridley, against a fan created theory based on a small pattern of events that seem to exist just to build hype.

And I'm perfectly fine with that. Both ideas have their holes, but we will get confirmation for base game before launch. I'm still getting over the statement from him that Steve from Minecraft will be playable, but Music Theory declines viable candidates for base game.
Both could be wrong, let's just wait for more info.

 

[Calamitas]

Simply waiting and seeing is probably the best approach to this theory. The update after next one is already another music update, so then we'll already see whether or not the trend continues.

 

[Pro895YT]

oh shet you're right im just sick of these leaks

 

[Oddball]

I'm reading this and it feel like post after post of "Music theory works as long as you ignore all those things that contradict it. Because they don't count."

I think some people are just trying too hard to see something that was never there.

 

[Pro895YT]

Hmmm... you may be right.

 

[Calamitas]

I'm reading this and it feel like post after post of "Music theory works as long as you ignore all those things that contradict it. Because they don't count."

I think some people are just trying too hard to see something that was never there.

The only thing that's really "ignored" here are Echoes. Everything else is just people trying to come up with exceptions that still allow for the newcomers they want, that would otherwise be deconfirmed.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Well, this week's music entry just went up, and...
...it's another Fire Emblem song.
If the music theory wasn't dead before, it certainly is now. After all this time, Nintendo has shown that they aren't afraid of doubling up on music tracks for the same series, meaning that series that already have music on the website are officially in the clear.
Pack it in, boys. Music theory deconfirmed.

 

[aarchak]

Well, this week's music entry just went up, and...
...it's another Fire Emblem song.
If the music theory wasn't dead before, it certainly is now. After all this time, Nintendo has shown that they aren't afraid of doubling up on music tracks for the same series, meaning that series that already have music on the website are officially in the clear.
Pack it in, boys. Music theory deconfirmed.

That's not the part of music theory we care about. That's only half. The part we really care about is that series that are getting a newcomer, but that newcomer hasn't been revealed yet, won't get music. That part is only confirmed more by the FE track, as it shows the team will use tracks from series already on the list to pad out time for the reveals.

 

[TheCJBrine]

That's not the part of music theory we care about. That's only half. The part we really care about is that series that are getting a newcomer, but that newcomer hasn't been revealed yet, won't get music. That part is only confirmed more by the FE track, as it shows the team will use tracks from series already on the list to pad out time for the reveals.

It also shows that they may use music from a series that already got music for a newcomer, as part of the Music Theory seemed to focus on series that already get music wouldn't get a newcomer as it would "be a strange marketing choice" if they had the same series' icons and ruin the variety. There's no reason there can be two songs and no newcomer if other series are already getting two songs.

edit: just realized you meant newcomers from a series that hasn't been represented by a character; alright, that makes sense.

 

[Pro895YT]

Huh. Guess it solves that.

 

[Ze Diglett]

That's not the part of music theory we care about. That's only half. The part we really care about is that series that are getting a newcomer, but that newcomer hasn't been revealed yet, won't get music. That part is only confirmed more by the FE track, as it shows the team will use tracks from series already on the list to pad out time for the reveals.

I have never heard that brought up before, presumably because it doesn't actually give us any new information. All it tells us is that maybe there's a new series with a character we haven't seen yet, and if there is, they aren't gonna show their hand by putting music out for the series before any character, which is just common sense, really.
The music theory, as it is widely understood, is dead. It was on its last legs before, but now, it's deconfirmed for certain.

 

[letsgetsmashing]

I don't think a Pokemon newcomer is happening, but I also don't believe Music Theory. There's just too many ways around it. The theory states that once a track for a series is released on the side the series will not receive any newcomers. But what about the Donkey Kong series? We already got a track for King K. Rool, but what if Dixie Kong was revealed? She wouldn't need a track, and therefore could debunk the theory. Plus they add a new track to the website every week. If they were to hold off certain tracks it would make it obvious which series were getting newcomers. There will probably be a time where we have more newcomer reveals left than series that do not have a track (and actually have a chance of getting a playable character). So I don't believe Music Theory one bit.

 

[Pro895YT]

I don't think a Pokemon newcomer is happening, but I also don't believe Music Theory. There's just too many ways around it. The theory states that once a track for a series is released on the side the series will not receive any newcomers. But what about the Donkey Kong series? We already got a track for King K. Rool, but what if Dixie Kong was revealed? She wouldn't need a track, and therefore could debunk the theory. Plus they add a new track to the website every week. If they were to hold off certain tracks it would make it obvious which series were getting newcomers. There will probably be a time where we have more newcomer reveals left than series that do not have a track (and actually have a chance of getting a playable character). So I don't believe Music Theory one bit.

...Would she though?

I have never heard that brought up before, presumably because it doesn't actually give us any new information. All it tells us is that maybe there's a new series with a character we haven't seen yet, and if there is, they aren't gonna show their hand by putting music out for the series before any character, which is just common sense, really.
The music theory, as it is widely understood, is dead. It was on its last legs before, but now, it's deconfirmed for certain.

Then let's see who doesn't have a song and possible candidates... (no one-off games)
- Bayonetta - Jeanne
- Punch Out - idk Glass Joe?
- Star Fox - Star Wolf member
- Mega Man - Proto Man?
I probably missed a lot, feel free to add on

 

[TheCJBrine]

Then let's see who doesn't have a song and possible candidates... (no one-off games)
- Bayonetta - Jeanne
- Punch Out - idk Glass Joe?
- Star Fox - Star Wolf member
- Mega Man - Proto Man?
I probably missed a lot, feel free to add on

Mega Man actually already has a song (Mega Man 4 Medley).

The point is, these series could get a second song for a newcomer, as FE has gotten a second song, and the Music Theory relied on series only getting one song.

 

[ZephyrZ]

That's not the part of music theory we care about. That's only half. The part we really care about is that series that are getting a newcomer, but that newcomer hasn't been revealed yet, won't get music. That part is only confirmed more by the FE track, as it shows the team will use tracks from series already on the list to pad out time for the reveals.

But the music theory was dependent on the idea that they were saving a franchises "one song" for their character reveal. Now that we know a franchise can have two songs, one of the core ideas that lead to the creation of the music theory in the first place has fallen apart.

There's really no reason to expect the blog music to mean anything after this.

 

[Calamitas]

Well, so much for that. Bummer. But this still doesn't change the trend that unique newcomers get accompanied by a new track, which was essentially confirmed by the Animal Crossing remix being held back for Isabelle's reveal. So really, if nothing else, series with no tracks yet do at least have a somewhat higher chance to still receive a newcomer.

Then let's see who doesn't have a song and possible candidates... (no one-off games)
- Bayonetta - Jeanne
- Punch Out - idk Glass Joe?
- Star Fox - Star Wolf member
- Mega Man - Proto Man?
I probably missed a lot, feel free to add on

You're forgetting Xenoblade and Elma, as people tend to do.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

And the theory is debunked. I told you it meant nothing. I was going to say something along the lines of how they're running out of franchises to play a music track for, but then they gave us a second Fire Emblem track the other night.

 

[Bandanna_Waddle_Dee]

Well, good riddance.

 

[Calamitas]

I was going to say something along the lines of how they're running out of franchises to play a music track for, but then they gave us a second Fire Emblem track the other night.

We really weren't. Even without series doubling, we'd have had more than enough series to receive new music tracks.

 

[staindgrey]

Well, this week's music entry just went up, and...
...it's another Fire Emblem song.

And it's the best Fire Emblem song.

I understand people who don't like Awakening, but I stand by it having the best soundtrack in the series.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

We really weren't. Even without series doubling, we'd have had more than enough series to receive new music tracks.

We still had a few franchises left to go, but I knew there was no way they could continue with the pace they were posting songs and not have to use a second song from any particular franchise. There was simply too much time.

It did happen quicker than I believed it would however.

 

[Pro895YT]

And it's the best Fire Emblem song.

I understand people who don't like Awakening, but I stand by it having the best soundtrack in the series.

F

We still had a few franchises left to go, but I knew there was no way they could continue with the pace they were posting songs and not have to use a second song from any particular franchise. There was simply too much time.

It did happen quicker than I believed it would however.

I was quite surprised too. I thought Music Theory would have held until at least the next Smash Direct, but here we are.

 

[aarchak]

Yeah, I guess Music Theory either isn't important anymore, or it's just dead. Either way, I guess I don't care for it anymore.