The morality of using aliases in large tourneys.

[SheerMadness]

For anyone who doesn't know, I tried to enter under an alias in this year's Apex. But to be fair to others I made sure to tell Nintendude and chain-ace so they could properly seed me. It went according to plan for several weeks until a few days before Apex when Nintendude decided it wasn't fair for the other entrants.

He didn't necessarily forcefully out me, but he said he was going to switch my alias with my real name on tourney day so it would be more fair. I wasn't a fan of that plan so I just told everyone on the tourney thread what the deal was.

Anyway what are your thoughts on people entering under aliases in large tourneys? I know certain people like battlecattle are strongly against it. Nintendude seemed to be somewhat opposed to the idea, but not completely. I've seen others that say they don't care at all.

Post your thoughts.

 

[Battlecow]

Y'all know my reasons

being able to prepare for yoshi, and to be able to prepare mentally for your opponent (e.g. sheer usually goes DL) is important. An alt takes that away. This is relevant whether or not he's seeded properly

and bad seeding will probably hurt sheer but it could also ruin someone else's tourney. The odds that someone who deserves 17th will be knocked down to 25th, or whatever, are very good. I know I'd be mad. I imagine most people would be.

 

[madrush21]

You've never said what your reason for entering under an alias is? I think the reason determines whether it's moral or not. Personally I think entering under an alias makes things more interesting sometimes, but if everyone used aliases we might as well just do random seeding. I can see how people would be upset if they had to play a tougher match-up because of this. Personally I would not be mad.

 

[SSB64-Jel]

Going under a alias wont change much in the way you play also it may make you vs top level players right off the bat.

 

[SheerMadness]

You've never said what your reason for entering under an alias is?

Personally I just find that it adds more excitement to things. It's really as simple as that. My plan for Apex 2013 was to stay as anonymous as possible the first couple rounds then out of nowhere you see like Sensei vs SheerMadness round 3 or 4. Considering no one in the venue would have expected me to be there, how hype would that have been?

Same thing If I hadn't told the TO's. That first big match just would have been in an even earlier round and even more hype. Plus if you don't tell the TO's, you're almost guaranteed to have a tougher bracket which would have been fun. I actually told Nintendude and chain-ace they could seed me if they wanted, but I was perfectly happy with not being seeded so I could have a tougher bracket.

Ughh battlcattle I added the first poll option just for you and you didn't even vote for it.

 

[ballin4life]

it's not immoral but I think it's kind of a **** move

sure, many people are like "meh I don't really care", but other people are like "I am strongly strongly against it" and you're disrespecting their wishes for how the tourney is going to be run.

 

[KnitePhox]

there is no problem, imo

and if tournaments are to be a true test of playing to win skill, random seed should not be a problem. if you win a tournament you should be able to beat anyone there.

 

[Cobrevolution]

and if tournaments are to be a true test of playing to win skill, random seed should not be a problem. if you win a tournament you should be able to beat anyone there.

this is what i'm sayin'. i get that people don't want to see two top 8 players facing off in the second round but then again these tournament's aren't about what people want to see...

 

[Battlecow]

there is no problem, imo

and if tournaments are to be a true test of playing to win skill, random seed should not be a problem. if you win a tournament you should be able to beat anyone there.

Correct, the winner of the tournament should win regardless of seed. For the other 95 players, however, seeding matters; sheer entering under an alt is the difference between Jimmy the fox main getting 33rd and 49th. Jimmy deserves 33rd and worked hard to get to that level in the six months that he's been playing. Jimmy's now going to turn to alcohol for comfort instead of smash in the wake of his messy divorce; he'll see his daughter less and less, skipping weekends under flimsy excuses and showing up to softball games and school plays with a jug of Thunderbird in his coat, when he shows up at all. That girl will grow up to be Adolf Hitler.

If you like Hitler, maintain your indifference to Sheer's use of aliases.

 

[KnitePhox]

o ok

never saw it that way i suppose

 

[asianaussie]

bcow you sound like you know/are that girl

who did jimmyjoe main again

 

[Battlecow]

bcow you sound like you know/are that girl

who did jimmyjoe main again

Calling me Hitler, huh? Real sound debate strategy, bro. This is just like when you defended ridiculous things like determinism.

Jimmy isn't based off of jimmyjoe

I guess I should have named him xXx_MW3-Bloodrayne_xXx

 

[Cobrevolution]

this is why battlecow shouldn't drink.

but i just looked at the bracket - if sensei used an alias and chain ace got his bye and gunblade moved to chain ace's spot, then that would put sensei immediately knocking you out, sheer (assuming the same outcome as would have happened a few rounds later). you would have then gone to an easier loser's bracket than you did. do you feel that would that be fair to you? or for your opponents?

 

[AtotheZ]

I'm going to enter as you, Sheer.

 

[King Omega]

Talking about a potentially easier, different random outcome (as a result of using an alias) is meaningless. It's random.

 

[kys]

I really see two ways of looking at this, both generally and practically

I'm against an alias in a general sense. You look at something like the NCAA tournament (or tennis, or whatever it is), and they seed based on results. However, that's only half of it. The other big half is knowing exactly who you're playing against so you can game plan against specific strategies and tendencies. Playing against Syracuse' zone defense is a lot different than say, Ole Miss, who switches up defenses on the fly. Being able to know who your opponent is and studying them before the game or match is something that has become nearly as important playing the game or match itself.

Practically speaking, I don't care a whole lot either way. This community is small; everyone knows the relative skill level of everyone else. Even if someone does get 33rd and maybe should have gotten 13th but ran into Sheer as an alias, the community will understand that. This, of course, would change if the community grows (and the prize money with it), and maybe we shouldn't set a bad precedent??

IN SUMMATION, I agree with Battlecow in the long run but the community hasn't reached a point where it's a big deal yet. I think it would be funny to see the reaction and fallout if Sheer did this successfully, but looking at the greater good it's probably not the best thing to be doing.

 

[Battlecow]

this is why battlecow shouldn't drink.

Why should I not drink?

Also kys is pretty right. It doesn't matter thaaaaaat much if one person does it but it's still bad.

although I would flip a fair amount of **** if I got sheer in the first round lol

 

[ballin4life]

Correct, the winner of the tournament should win regardless of seed.

This actually isn't quite true.

Simple example - let's say there is a 4 man tourney, call the players 1,2,3,4 (in order of skill). 1 plays 4 in the first round and crushes because 4 is a total noob. Then 1 beats 2 in a super close set to win the tourney.

OK now let's say that 3 enters with an alias and gets seeded fourth. Since 3 is pretty good, he gives 1 a run for his money and 1 wins a close set. Meanwhile 2 pwns that noob 4. 2 now is less tired and more focused and is able to beat 1.

Or if you don't believe in being tired / momentum, let's say 1 is 60% to win against 2 and 70% to win against 3. Let's say 1 and 2 are both 100% to win against 4, and 2 is 60% to win against 3.

In the scenario with proper seeding, 1 is 100% to win against 4 and then 60% of the time he faces 2 and has 60% to win, and the other 40% of the time he faces 3 and has 70% to win, for a grand total of 64% chance of winning.

When 3 enters with an alias, 1 is 70% to beat 3 and 60% to beat 2 for a total of 42% chance of winning. 1 has had his chances of winning reduced by over 20%.

 

[Battlecow]

Fair enough. I'll accept it. More reinforcement.

 

[KnitePhox]

but if 1 already is at an advantage against all other players, what does it matter much where the others stand???

do 2nd and 3rd places of this theory tourney get better seeding in the new tourney??

 

[Olikus]

the biggest problem with good players going under aliases is the seeding will be more random. If you like random seeding I guess I can understand why poeple is okay with aliases. If not I dont. The problem with one good player going under alias it ****s up for some peoples seeding. And if sheers do it, other might follow, and many gets ****ed up. It doenst matter if ony a few person gets a harder bracket than they should. Its still ruin some players tourney.

Lets use myself as example. I might travel to apex in the future. And I will use alot more of my good earned money than the local smasher. Lets say I get a seeding. I will face noobcalisternoobnoob in 1st round. But oh hey its kikoushi or boom under an alias. I get sent to losers. My tourney gets ruined, buy hey they had a laugh right?

-_____-

 

[ballin4life]

On the other hand, seeding a bracket like that from scratch is such a difficult task ... someone is going to wind up having a more difficult bracket. That's just how it is. One person screwing up the seeding may give someone a really tough bracket, but that was going to happen to someone anyway.

That's why pools are good ... they take away some of the difficult, subjective seeding that the TO would have to do. If someone really good goes under an alias he will do well in pools and still get a high seed.

 

[Nintendude]

Honestly it's just a weird thing to do and I don't get the motive. I was opposed because we have literally 1 national per year and I don't get why we wouldn't want to get the most accurate results out of that as possible.

Consider Apex like March Madness. Wouldn't it be really ****ty if some 1 seed got placed randomly in the bracket somewhere?

 

[SheerMadness]

But I told you who I was and was seeded properly..

I would have been seeded the same if I had used SheerMadness or Don't Blink, so I don't get it.

I think you mentioned something a long the lines of people betting on the brackets as to why I couldn't use the alias.

 

[Battlecow]

On the other hand, seeding a bracket like that from scratch is such a difficult task ... someone is going to wind up having a more difficult bracket. That's just how it is. One person screwing up the seeding may give someone a really tough bracket, but that was going to happen to someone anyway.

That's why pools are good ... they take away some of the difficult, subjective seeding that the TO would have to do. If someone really good goes under an alias he will do well in pools and still get a high seed.

I agree that pools are optimal, but you're better than the "Something's always going to be somewhat wrong, therefore it doesn't matter if many things are very wrong" argument.

aliases would suck even worse with pools. Jimmy is supposed to be a two seed and top 2 make it out, but instead of being with kikoushi and two brawl players he's with kikoushi, a brawl player, and sheer. Wah-wah-wah. All of a sudden his dreams of bracket are shattered.

 

[Nintendude]

But I told you who I was and was seeded properly..

I would have been seeded the same if I had used SheerMadness or Don't Blink, so I don't get it.

I think you mentioned something a long the lines of people betting on the brackets as to why I couldn't use the alias.

What you did last time was fine and I would have let you keep the alias until people started discussing making an actual bracket pool (which I guess didn't happen). What I meant was that I would be opposed to you not even letting the TOs know that you are coming, which is what it sounds like you want to do for next year.

 

[SheerMadness]

People are all talk when it comes to betting. I knew no one would end up betting, which is why I was slightly salty you didn't let me stick with my alias. Nothing against you of course, Nintendude. You're a nice guy.

Looks like 90% of the voters so far are cool with aliases as long as they're still seeded correctly.

So next year if people even want to entertain the idea of betting on brackets, they do it knowing the risks of aliases. That way people with aliases don't have to be outted.

 

[Battlecow]

If sheer does an alias but is seeded properly I will, of course, do the same thing

it would be pretty dumb not to take that advantage.

 

[The Star King]

Sheer everyone's gonna know it's you anyways when it's a random guy with high seed

Remember when you were all "you guys won't figure out who I am" (lol) and people correctly said who you were within like the next 3 posts? Yeah.

 

[SheerMadness]

If there is an advantage in having an extra 2-3 days to prepare for someone, it's pretty miniscule. If you suck vs a certain char or playstyle, the chances you drastically improve in a couple days is pretty small. Plus, you can't emulate someone's play style which is just as important as the match up.

Hell battlecattle I sit there and tell you every habit of yours I take advantage of when we play. That's the best preparation you've ever gonna get vs me. Yet it rubs your ego the wrong way apparently and you ignore every single bit of it. Not only do you ignore it, but you get pissed at me. For whatever reason you can't handle me trying to help you.

Going online and playing random Yoshi's for 2 days is not legitimate preparation.

Star King, whatever I didn't care at that point. Plus TANK told everyone I was Don't Blink.

 

[killa k]

"Yeah, so I looked at the bracket and uh, SpunkyCabbage64...seeded player. Seems legit."

 

[ballin4life]

I agree that pools are optimal, but you're better than the "Something's always going to be somewhat wrong, therefore it doesn't matter if many things are very wrong" argument.

In an ideal world sure, but I'm saying given that the seeding is gonna be crap anyway the value add of trying to make sure there are no aliases is fairly low.

aliases would suck even worse with pools. Jimmy is supposed to be a two seed and top 2 make it out, but instead of being with kikoushi and two brawl players he's with kikoushi, a brawl player, and sheer. Wah-wah-wah. All of a sudden his dreams of bracket are shattered.

At some level this problem exists still with pools, I agree. Still significantly better than having the bracket seeding be screwed up.

 

[clubbadubba]

This is sheer

For the record i voted for as long as they are seeded properly its "okay", because that's what I think in terms of tournament fairness. Preparing for a specific opponent is not something I think is very useful imo.

But sheer this is just pointless and makes the experience worse overall for everyone but you. don't get it

 

[¨°PÞ-§°¨ Bane]

just do what you wanna do, sheer

if i ever enter a tournament, i'll definitely enter under an alias roflrofl

 

[SheerMadness]

^ That's the spirit Bane.

Clubba think of it as me being a pleasantly hidden surprise. That should make the experience better for everyone not worse.

 

[The Star King]

Star King, whatever I didn't care at that point. Plus TANK told everyone I was Don't Blink.

The question isn't whether you cared back then. The question is why you cared enough to make a thread now, when you're never gonna be able to pull it off anyways if you get seeded properly.

P.S. We knew well before anyone told us -TANK just confirmed our suspicions. It was really obvious.

 

[SheerMadness]

Uhhh I made the thread for the community. Not for myself.

Honestly I'd rather just enter under an alias and NOT tell the TO's next Apex (if I even go). More fun and a tougher challenge.

 

[clubbadubba]

attaching nice words like pleasantly hidden surprise doesn't actually make it a pleasantly hidden surprise. I say its unpleasantly hidden bs.

Not sure I'm clear what you are trying to do either. Are you going to let everyone know you are going but just not tell them your tag? Or are you not even going to let anyone know you are going (except the TO obvi)? If its the former then you aren't a surprise and yes we will easily figure out who you are based on seeding. If its the latter then you are harming the tournament by making it appear as if one less prominent player is going. A lot of players base their tourney attendance on who else is attending. You could be the player that pushes a few others into attending making the tournament even more awesome.... if only they knew you were coming.

I also have a problem with the TO knowing who you are and keeping it from us. I think that's shady. Plus people using alts in tourney just makes our community seem really ****ty at a time when we are getting more official.

 

[B Link]

Don't Blink is actually me

I'm actually sheermadness

wut

But in all seriousness:
Sheer is allowed to use another alias and no one officially should be allowed to stop him from doing that. HOWEVER, a caveat: other players will get mad.

=O

 

[viCe1]

I'm curious of the differences between playing under an alias while having a unique main character vs playing under an alias using a generic high-tier character.