Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[Katakiri]

I've been trying to figure out the custom Villager MU and the best I've got is to hover above the ledge or on a platform above if he has the lead and either punish him with FF aerials or use, wait for it...Entangling Tornado. It prevents him from camping Lloid Rocket on ledge due to the wide suction and pokes him if his ledge invincibility runs out. Finally, a use for a tornado custom.

If MK can get the stock lead and keep it, Custom Villager is not an issue. If you lose the lead by so much as 1%, Villager is already camping you. His pressure game is so good that it's hard to keep a percent lead. I'll keep working at it tho. My biggest issue is his balloons but I'm starting to see ways around them.

 

[W.A.C.]

It's worth mentioning Villager's balloons got nerfed. Not sure if that change affected his custom balloons though.

 

[LostinpinK]

I'm so glad Europe's not into customs. Maybe the US scene will understand that customs definetely make the game less fun after evo and we'll all be happy ever after in a vanilla meta <3

And lol @ the frequentation's increase after Zero and Dabuz' posts.

 

[Amadeus9]

Character gets buffed = new attention = new people move in. It's just how it works *shrug*

 

[W.A.C.]

Character gets buffed = new attention = new people move in. It's just how it works *shrug*

That, and a player who mains Meta Knight is completely destroying everyone in NorCal. I'd argue Ito's success with the character has brought more attention to Meta Knight than the buffs. Meta Knight's buffs help him a lot though. Judging from a recent post Ito made in the Match-Up Discussion thread, it sounds like Meta Knight only has one horrible matchup now, which is Zero Suit Samus. Hopefully Ito won't have to face Nairo or Choco at EVO. lol Though does anyone have any opinions on the Pikachu matchup? I don't typically have issues facing Pikachu using Meta Knight, but his customs are disgustingly broken and ESAM leads the metagame for that character.

 

[warionumbah2]

He needs to change to 60:40 then we good.

Would say pikachu beats us pre patch like 55:45, jab beats his QA so his bs in neutral isn't so dominating. I need to play this MU again with MKs buffs, its like im using a new character smh. This is default btw, we lose against him no questions asked In customs.

I dont think MK will place well in EVO, too much jank in one tounrey. Would love to be proven wrong again though. ZSS is the only MU so far where the buffs mean absolutely nothing, it doesnt aid us at all probably made Ito change it from 70:30 to 65:35.

Character gets buffed = new attention = new people move in. It's just how it works *shrug*

Only if the buffs makes said charqcter easy to pick up and play, this isnt the case for MK. No one gravitates to MK tbh, they may get inspired by good MKs around them like Ito but then they realize "wow this is hard" and drop him for an easy top tier.

 

[W.A.C.]

Too bad Ito isn't going to CEO. Would've been interesting to see how his Meta Knight would've placed there. I still feel Meta Knight can do fine in a customs environment though. Ito is proof of that.

 

[Bonk!]

I have lots of problems with Pikachu. It seems like everything he does is just so safe. And it's really bad when they camp and use QA everywhere. I don't understand the logic behind nerfing Diddy into oblivion and not laying a finger on Pikachu. What exactly is Pikachu's weakness?

 

[warionumbah2]

That was my beef with pika prepatch, but now we got jab so he cannot zip past us with QA. He's no falcon or zss but I struggle with him more than fox for example.

Now that I look at Itos scene there's no super jank characters there, like DK, Villager or pikachu. You got sonics jumping on customs because tbh MK does really well against sonic now, then you got sheiks doing sheik stuff.

Nothing spectacular just top tiers using customs and omly 2 players seem to actually know how to fight MK, or at least not get bopped. Hope zex or 6wx join the next one.

 

[Ulevo]

I am not sure why you would opt to use standard attack in neutral, particularly against Pikachu, who can punish you from half screen during your end lag. It should best be saved as an edge guarding tool or a move to punish rolls or spot dodges so you can push your opponent off stage.

 

[warionumbah2]

Cause it has good range,lingering hitbox and low end lag. Getting punished from across half screen is a myth, i've been using this on Fox,Falcons and Sonics and rarely got punished from that distance because MK can act so soon.

Its usually mid range that i get punished but even then they must time it when MK does a quick flip, the moment his feet touches the ground i can do what i want.

You either use it way too often(aka spam) or hold 'A' for more than a second. Tell me what you would do to Pika in neutral to at least tone down his QA abuse.

 

[Ulevo]

I do not use standard attack in those situations because I know better.

Against Pikachu, staying out of range of Quick Attack 1 and staying in the air will help.

 

[warionumbah2]

Well i playstyles differ, i use jabs to set up tech chases and wall out ground approaches instead of limiting jab to one thing.

Staying in the air isn't safe, you're asking to get hit by Fair(sometimes into another fair). When we're outside QA 1 range he'll just spam Tjolt forcing us to give up more stage to him or go into the air. Shielding is a poor option obviously.

 

[Ulevo]

It is fine to look for different uses for a move so long as it has applicability in that area. The recovery on standard attack is lower, but it is not so low that it cannot be punished if you commit to it against a fast character. Using it to set up tech chases is fine when it is used as a punish option, but using it the way you would forward smash seems like a mistake.

If you are getting hit by forward air then you are not spacing well and likely not paying attention. Pikachu cannot pass your disjoint.

You do not adhere to just one space, you dynamically move between spaces depending on what Pikachu is doing. This should be obvious given the type of character Meta Knight is.

Thunderjolt should not pose a concern unless Pikachu uses it as a proxy to net a grab or follow up by firing it in the air ahead of time and landing with it, which is telegraphed. They are easy to power shield.

Quick Attack is only a problem if you are at the end rage of the move where Pikachu can cancel it in to another move and start a combo, hit you off stage or land a kill. If you stay inside or outside of that end range, it is manageable. It only does 2% by itself and without cancelling it at end range it does not lead in to anything dangerous.

There is nothing wrong with shielding as an option, it just needs to be relegated to those moments where your in the hotspot of Pikachu's Quick Attack range and do not have the time to reposition.

 

[Bonk!]

Okay. So we've put down the foundation of avoiding Pikachu, but my question still stands. How do you guys punish Pikachu? He has a similar F-smash to ours that has super low cool down. I would go on, but I think all this discussion merits Pikachu the next spot in our MU discussions. However, we still need to formally address the MUs that have changed in their respective threads. I know people have been doing that, but I think @ Katakiri should change the ratio soon so we can avoid things like Showdown smash thinking we believe the Shiek MU is in our favor when it clearly isn't even when we first discussed it.

 

[W.A.C.]

Yeah, honestly, it was kind of embarrassing when DSS said we felt the matchup vs. Shiek was in Meta Knight's favor when it's clearly not. That really needs to be changed.

 

[warionumbah2]

Unlike ours his F-smash isn't safe on block

 

[Bonk!]

Unlike ours his F-smash isn't safe on block

I beg to differ. It seems really safe. Of all the sets I've played with Pikachus, I've never been able to punish it without a perfect shield.

 

[warionumbah2]

Nah bruh that isn't safe on shield, I bet my left nut on this.

 

[Bonk!]

I still wanna know what I'm supposed to react to in order to get a grab or dash attack. It seems like everything Pikachu does is too safe during the neutral. I have no idea how to get in.

 

[W.A.C.]

[LINK]

This guide by ESAM (best Brawl and Smash 4 Pikachu player in the world) is worth reading, though with Meta Knight's disjointed hitboxes and six jumps, I imagine he has a much better chance of being able to challenge Pikachu off-stage compared to like 90% of the roster. Still very risky.

 

[Superbat]

Thats a top tier for you though. When they go in (), and When you go in (). Never fight a pikachu on battlefield or any of its clone stages like Mii Verse and Dreamland. (Especially Dream Land ) EZ Quick attack cancels there. At kill percents, (not customs pika lol) his kill moves are kinda telegraphed. Since our godlike recovery enables us to survive his edge guarding, Pikas usually fish for the up/forward smash kills. When your at kill percents, play it patiently. That's all I've got. I struggle with pika as well. All the FG Pikas are godlike.

 

[Ras99]

Am I the only one who thinks custom metagame is... stupid?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Thats a top tier for you though. When they go in (), and When you go in (). Never fight a pikachu on battlefield or any of its clone stages like Mii Verse and Dreamland. (Especially Dream Land ) EZ Quick attack cancels there. At kill percents, (not customs pika lol) his kill moves are kinda telegraphed. Since our godlike recovery enables us to survive his edge guarding, Pikas usually fish for the up/forward smash kills. When your at kill percents, play it patiently. That's all I've got. I struggle with pika as well. All the FG Pikas are godlike.

Battlefield and its clones are only really useful for giving his QAC game more potency but mess with his approach options and limit the utility of his Thunder. It's a trade-off. A lot of Pikachus will tell you that BF and the like aren't really Pikachu preferred stages. QA is good but overated. You can predict it and punish. His hurtboxes are extended during the duration of the move.

Also F-Smash has two different versions. Sweetspotted and spaced. Sweetspotted has a **** ton of shield push/much more knockback but I think you can actually punish that. The other variant isn't nearly as threatening imo.

Am I the only one who thinks custom metagame is... stupid?

You are not alone brother.

 

[warionumbah2]

**** customs.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Yeah, I'm not too crazy about customs either, and that's not because MK's customs are ass.

Like, I hate how the biggest reason you see DK in tournaments is because of his stupid custom upB, or charizard with his dragon rush sideB.

 

[Qazoo306]

The issues with customs is that it polarizes the metagame. In regular, non custom play, a low tier character can win tournaments without much more difficulty than a top tier player would have. In customs, some characters get buffed to the point where it's pointless to run other characters. Some characters, like sheik and DK, get incredible buffs to the point that few other characters are worth playing seriously. There are pretty much10 brawl metaknights, and 40 brawl Gannons. It's less fun to play and watch because of its repetitiveness.

 

[W.A.C.]

Am I the only one who thinks custom metagame is... stupid?

I'm probably the only one here who loves custom moves, so you're definitely not alone with that opinion.

The issues with customs is that it polarizes the metagame. In regular, non custom play, a low tier character can win tournaments without much more difficulty than a top tier player would have. In customs, some characters get buffed to the point where it's pointless to run other characters. Some characters, like sheik and DK, get incredible buffs to the point that few other characters are worth playing seriously. There are pretty much10 brawl metaknights, and 40 brawl Gannons. It's less fun to play and watch because of its repetitiveness.

No-one is anywhere near as good as Brawl Meta Knight and no-one is anywhere near as bad as Brawl Ganondorf in Smash 4.

 

[PUK]

I personnaly love custom too, even if it only benefits the oponent. I love the way some characters becomes viable, and some sucks a little less. I love how they force some modification in the gameplay.
I believe custom metagame is not balanced at all, but is still more balanced than custom off metagame.

 

[Jamurai]

I'm probably the only one here who loves custom moves, so you're definitely not alone with that opinion.

You're not alone. I love customs as a concept but there are a few which admittedly seem unbalanced and polarising... It doesn't help that not many (if any?) seem to be being changed in patches. However because of the sheer amount of movesets the metagame is seriously complicated which leaves lots of room for adaptation and whatnot; it's exciting but will take a long time.

I wouldn't say MK's customs are ass. Instead I would say MK's defaults are incredible and difficult to improve upon. Sort of the same thing, but call me an optimist.

 

[PUK]

Actually each change done to special moves are done to their custom counterpart so it's kinda wrond to say patch didn't change them.

 

[Bonk!]

http://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash

Angel is there. Maybe playing Mk?

 

[Katakiri]

I finally see exactly what ItoI sees in B-Air and I'm practicing footstools set-ups all this week. My MK is evolving so fast now!
My region is ****ed.

 

[warionumbah2]

Lol no one gave feedbacks on those vids, yall are savagee.

 

[W.A.C.]

Watching that Stream. I linked Angel to stuff last night on Twitter, so that might have helped. He actually retweeted this tweet last night.

 

[Ulevo]

I have decided that I will not be doing the combo compendium the way I had originally intended. While the data I collected on Sheik was nice and quite thorough, I am only interested in pragmatic information. However, the information I covered on Sheik gave me a good base to use for the rest of the cast. I might compile the combo information specifically in to the compendium, but I want it for match up information because the combos utilized will vary slightly depending on the opponent.

I have collected some data today for Roy. Doing 0% - 74% is rather nice.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Katakiri join me and we will turn the Midwest into Tornado Alley all over again. And @Fye when he gets back to Missouri. <3

 

[MagiusNecros]

My buddy was screaming obscenities at the glory that is Shuttle Loop. Feels good.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I remember my first Up Air 5 chain to Shuttle Loop that killed a Link at 60. Good times.

 

[Amadeus9]

Usually my opponents complain about tornado... "21 damage off a punish? Broken!"