Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[ItoI6]

its too hard to land vs her upairs, her tether and down b makes it very hard to get anything from edge guards, and shes one of those characters that can punish you on hit for a lot of stuff at low%s with her 1 frame jab or escape with downb because much of mks stuff isnt true that low. its just a bad combination of all of mks weaknesses.

idk i dont really think falcon is hard to edgeguard, its just that using nair to edgeguard him is pretty bad. bair will cleanly beat it and you should use a well timed down air to catch him coming from directly below which can be hard to time but it should still always work. falcon is bad because he has an upair like zero suits with great mobility so its very hard to land vs both, except he lives longer and has a good grab in exchange for a worse recovery.

idk i dont really see why pikachu would win. it seems pretty even to me

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

My spread:

Diddy: 40-60
Sheik: 50-50
Rosaluma: 55-45
Sonic: 45-55
Fox: 55-45
ZSS: 40-60
Mario: 50-50 (my best MU)
Luigi: 50-50
Wario: 50-50
Pit/Emo Pit: 50-50
Ness: 60-40
Yoshi: 40-60
Pacman: 60-40
Falcon: 45-55
Pikachu: 50-50
Mega man 50-50
Villager: 55-45
Olimar: 55-45
Rob: 50-50
Lucario: 55-45
Shulk: 60-40 (I could see 65-35)
Greninja: 50-50
Duck Hunt: 60-40
Peach: 50-50

No set order. After Peach, I stop caring.

Also Falcon isn't that bad. Range, a way better close range game and kill power advantage is why I think he has a slight edge. Its a really dumb matchup. Both characters just wanna combo and juggle each other to death. We win off stage but edge guarding a good Falcon is much harder than a scrub one.

Also Pikachu are pretty adamant we win. But honestly the difference between say.. ESAM and the others is huge. I'm more inclined to believe other Pikachu's don't know the MU very well/underestimate Pikachu's tools. I really believe its even.

 

[ItoI6]

greninja can hitstun cancel with his sideb out of 1st hit of aerial shuttle loop and punish you on hit + its also hard to land vs his huge jumps. ive upaired someone to the top of smashville, got a shuttle loop, and they hitstun cancelled and killed me with sideb while i was at 40% when i came in with the 2nd swing. its in his advantage by a bit i think

idk i also saw some theory craft that megamans worst matchup was mk too which also doesnt make sense to me, people are exaggerating in both directions too much lol. i doubt theyve even played a mk tbh

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I've never played a really good Greninja so I'll take your word for it. That's a crazy escape plan/punish for Shuttle Loop though, wow.

Also why do people think MK is Mega man's worst MU. I play this MU a bit.... I feel like its dead even.

 

[Fye]

We're really that good against Shulk? Haven't played too much against him, but I thought his range would space us out and could kill us earlier with his smash arte.

 

[Ulevo]

We're really that good against Shulk? Haven't played too much against him, but I thought his range would space us out and could kill us earlier with his smash arte.

That's what I kind of thought. I'm totally ignorant on how to handle the character, but I think that's partly because his range is huge and hard to handle.

 

[ItoI6]

its very hard for shulk to land vs mk, and i think shulk in general has a lot of trouble with people just dash shielding into him.

 

[warionumbah2]

Shulk is not a threat just because his sword is huge doesn't mean he beats us, same goes for other sword users.

Lol at lurkers tho.

Edit: Falcon is not hard to edgeguard where the hell is this coming from, Dair swipes him under us and nair/bair reads end him at around 60%?.

 

[Oblivion129]

@ ItoI6 if you can post videos of those good match-ups like vs Shulk, Ness, and Olimar, the MK hype-train could get rolling.
I don't see Greninja having an advantage, though. I've seen @Katakiri play it several times.

 

[ItoI6]

i dont think he played someone who could reliably punish shuttle loop on hit. i also redid the throw guide, u should read it even if ur a mk pro.

oh also i want to talk about something really weird ive noticed and cant replicate reliably. has anyone noticed that mk sometimes will do an enormous slide across the ground? I can get it to appear by walking across the ground then spamming crouch repeatedly. youll see him swoop forward with a ton of momentum you can do any action with. I've done it during normal gameplay randomly but this is the only way i can recreate it by luck.

 

[W.A.C.]

Ito, what do you feel is Meta Knight's matchup ratio against custom moves Rosalina? Some people feels she's the best character in the game when customs are enabled. Any match-ups in particular you feel become really bad for Meta Knight when customs are enabled?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

i dont think he played someone who could reliably punish shuttle loop on hit. i also redid the throw guide, u should read it even if ur a mk pro.

oh also i want to talk about something really weird ive noticed and cant replicate reliably. has anyone noticed that mk sometimes will do an enormous slide across the ground? I can get it to appear by walking across the ground then spamming crouch repeatedly. youll see him swoop forward with a ton of momentum you can do any action with. I've done it during normal gameplay randomly but this is the only way i can recreate it by luck.

I will be looking into this and will report my findings to the boards. This could be worth looking into. It could also be too difficult to replicate consistently...but you never know until you try. I'm pretty good at investigating technical stuff so I'm curious about this.

 

[Ulevo]

Shulk is not a threat just because his sword is huge doesn't mean he beats us, same goes for other sword users.

Lol at lurkers tho.

Edit: Falcon is not hard to edgeguard where the hell is this coming from, Dair swipes him under us and nair/bair reads end him at around 60%?.

Dair is hard to time and you won't land nair consistently. Bair is also hard to space correctly.

 

[warionumbah2]

Basically you're saying its hard time to correctly, difficulty in edgeguarding ranges from player to player and I don't have trouble fast falling into dair against a falcon player going low.

 

[Ulevo]

Basically you're saying its hard time to correctly, difficulty in edgeguarding ranges from player to player and I don't have trouble fast falling into dair against a falcon player going low.

If you're going to try and time a down air from above, you might as well use neutral air, which in my experience has a higher rate of success. But once the Falcon figures out the match up, they'll realize you can't challenge them off stage if they recover higher unless you time a really precise back air or play russian roulette with neutral air and hope it works. When the Falcon does this, the optimal strategy then becomes to guard him on stage instead of going for gimps, which they will then mix up by going for the ledge but not below the ledge line.

The fact that it's hard to time is what makes this difficult. Most of the time you're better off trying to make him waste a jump somehow and then going for said gimp, but by then they're usually dead, or going for the safe option and trying to cover their ledge options on stage. Most gimp attempts end in you eating a Falcon Dive for free and then you being put in to an edge guard situation. I'm not sure how regularly you play against Falcon, but it is not easy to do.

 

[warionumbah2]

No point in going for nair if it loses to falcon dive, dair beats it out and can cause a stage spike. As you said if falcon recovers high which is hella dumb then he'll eat a bair or the tip of f smash if he aims for the ledge heck anywhere on the ground. Bair is a lingering disjoint I dont see how its difficult to land if falcon recovers high, the 1st or 2nd hit will always link into the 3rd.

Only problem I have with falcon is when they cover themselves with uair but that'll cost their second jump, MK covers ledge options with one move so either way falcon is in a bad situation. I don't think any of us are on point with edgeguarding but more times than not as in 7/10 you should successfully edgeguard falcon.

Falcon is the most common character sadly, so I play him often against my will offline or online. Wish people would stop bandwagoning the man.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

While we're talking about MUs can someone tell me in depth how to deal with Olimar. I recognize we win, but I hate that MU so much. I have no idea what to do rofl.

 

[Ulevo]

You're only going to beat Falcon Dive with down air if you're challenging it from on top of Falcon, in which case you leave a larger margin for error by using down air instead of neutral air. Challenging him on a more diagonal or horizontal basis is the challenge, and that is where down air will not work due where the hitbox is placed. Back air is hard to time because of how big Falcon Dive's hitbox is. I really think you're underestimate just how large it actually is. Falcon also has a lot of momentum and movement during and after the Falcon Dive, making reading his movements difficult. Despite that, Falcon will usually go straight for the ledge, but they will do it at an angle that is far enough away to allow for space to hit you with the grab box but close enough to snap to the ledge. If you ever go off stage to intercept him, that's even more difficult.

But if we're just going to go in circles like this, provide me with a video of you or someone else consistently ledge guarding Falcon successfully so maybe I can learn something.

 

[warionumbah2]

I will upload Falcon matches if my mates up for some matches.

This is the first time i've seen a MK user on this board ever struggle to edgeguard Falcon. If more people said the same as you i'll believe that Falcon is hard to edgeguard.

While we're talking about MUs can someone tell me in depth how to deal with Olimar. I recognize we win, but I hate that MU so much. I have no idea what to do rofl.

Katakiri posted a tourney where he beat Olimar and Luigi a few pages back.

 

[Trunks159]

Eh, ive always thought the Falcon matchup was in our favor. Hitting Falcon with dash attack, d throw, f throw, or dtilt trip leads to fairly easy combos. Falcons spike shenanigans and his knee dont work as well vs Metaknight. Edgeguarding CF is about as easy as edgeguarding is going to get (though it still isnt easy). Bair, dair, nair, and even fair have worked for me,

 

[warionumbah2]

Ok testing out this crouch slide thing and it seems like MK is going slightly faster than his walk speed.

Very weird i can see what Ito is on about, maybe we can use this as a movement opinion?

 

[Ulevo]

Ok testing out this crouch slide thing and it seems like MK is going slightly faster than his walk speed.

Very weird i can see what Ito is on about, maybe we can use this as a movement opinion?

How do you perform it.

 

[Superbat]

*Warnng FG Scrub Alert*
lol sliding shuttleloop maybe? Might catch people off guard. Cant test right now. Would most likely go well with down tilt pokes.

 

[warionumbah2]

How do you perform it.

I don't have it down completely but you basically want to input couch + walk at the same time.

So press or quickly and MK will slide.

****ING EDIT: Actually you want to start walking then input crouch, the slide is basically MK keeping his walking momentum. Still trying to figure but the slide is pretty long.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm going into the lab on this in less than two hours. Eager to see if there is any kind of way to make this work for us consistently. Could potentially help with our lack of range.

 

[warionumbah2]

Here's a video of me pulling it off across the damn stage....(skip to 0:16)

 

[Ulevo]

I've figured it out. Basically when Meta Knight walks forward, the first step he takes as he moves his foot forward has momentum associated with it on certain frames. If you cancel the animation in to a crouch, you carry said momentum, resulting in a slide. For best results you want to have the stick tilted as far forward as possible to get the best slide.

I doubt this will be very applicable because of the difficult it takes to consistently use.

Edit: Actually, it is applicable for extending the range of the down tilt.

I seem to only be getting the really big slides after I have done it a 2nd time while still carrying the momentum of the 1st. I can't get a ready big slide from a stationary crouch.

 

[W.A.C.]

wtf @ that slide near the end? His down tilt's lack of range will definitely be less of a problem with that technique. Damn.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Yeah I've been playing around with it. It can go surprisingly far actually.

 

[Ulevo]

Still limited applicability. In order to go far you either need momentum from a walk or from an initial slide. I can see it being used in footsy situations though to get slight extra range on the down tilt as you do go a moderate distance without initial momentum.

 

[warionumbah2]

I figured out the trick on getting the biggest slide possible. If anyone is still interested.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I figured out the trick on getting the biggest slide possible. If anyone is still interested.

*raises hand*

 

[warionumbah2]

Ight first you want to walk (duh) but slide down to crouch then rise it back up to walk again, so you're basically sliding it up and down really quickly.

But in training mode I set the speed to slow motion and I got the big slide all the time, turns out you to need to input 2(or more) crouches back to back really fast and then (important bit) hold the direction MKs facing with more pressure to launch him in that direction.

In slow mo the input required for this is more forgiving but in normal speed its harder to do, I can only get this in one direction (to the left). Ftilt is imo the best way to follow up after sliding.

Labbing this **** out, hope my explanation helps.

Edit: Ulevos description is correct, its basically cancelling the walk animation. MK takes a few baby steps before swinging his arms back aka walk animation.

 

[KassandraNova]

Peach: 50-50

Meh personally, I really don't agree with this. I'm pretty sure beats in this game. I'd say it's probably 60-40 in 's favor.

 

[Ulevo]

Meh personally, I really don't agree with this. I'm pretty sure beats in this game. I'd say it's probably 60-40 in 's favor.

What is it about this match up that makes you believe it is in Meta Knight's favor. Can you elaborate.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I can see MK applying pressure to Peach's weak shield, and juggling her pretty hard, and the fact MK doesn't get too much trouble when dealing with turnips, but her Fair alone is something to watch out for, also consider MK's low range and Peach's actual kill potential.

 

[ItoI6]

yo if you jump and instantly double jump and buffer down b, if you hold left or right you will perfectly autocancel the cape and you can do anything instantly when you land. i buffered ftilt the instant i landed and got people trying to punish me in friendlies a few times today. you can use it to get yourself out of the corner sometimes.

 

[warionumbah2]

Haven't found a use for that crouch slide sadly, i also think it doesn't work on grassy stages.

That cape auto cancel tech is so dumb lol i love it. Now that rco lag is gone this is a legit trap escape ticket. MUs like Marth become less silly near the ledge thanks to this.

Out of all the sword based moves MK has, Ftilt is by far the best in terms of range and stopping approaches. It swats Sheik away like a fly and Ftilt 2 and 3 halts Falcon.

MKs keep away game is now even more cancerous. Now the rule of MK is growing: Rule no.1 never use a lightweight on MK Rule no.2 don't use a character who's dash speed is below 20 against MK.

Oh great a MU thread for MK, hate this MU. Its basically who ever knows about MK the most wins, no matter what.

 

[Trunks159]

Haven't found a use for that crouch slide sadly, i also think it doesn't work on grassy stages.

That cape auto cancel tech is so dumb lol i love it. Now that rco lag is gone this is a legit trap escape ticket. MUs like Marth become less silly near the ledge thanks to this.

Out of all the sword based moves MK has, Ftilt is by far the best in terms of range and stopping approaches. It swats Sheik away like a fly and Ftilt 2 and 3 halts Falcon.

MKs keep away game is now even more cancerous. Now the rule of MK is growing: Rule no.1 never use a lightweight on MK Rule no.2 don't use a character who's dash speed is below 20 against MK.

Oh great a MU thread for MK, hate this MU. Its basically who ever knows about MK the most wins, no matter what.

Yeah its his best defensive ground option, but i HATE playing defensively with MK.

PS. Whats with the constant changing of Naruto avatars?!

 

[V23]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/34g1w0/come_in_read_my_story_watch_my_gif/
You guys played a big part of this story. wanted to share.