The Meteors Approach: What 1.06 Could Mean for Yoshi

[Sinister Slush]

Sonic didn't really get nerfed to the ground.
If you want more accurate sources, just go to the respective character boards or the patch notes thread in the competitive Wii U sub-forum.

 

[KyroChao]

Nah, sonic kept most all of his tools, and since his B throw mostly relied on rage, its still an option for the hedgegog once hes in rage and the oponents atleast at 100%. BSD lost its invincibility but yoshi cant do much to it as far as im aware so thats still safe for him, and his utilt has less knockback, so it could lead to more comboes for him.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Sonic is still probably top 3. Diddy isn't hurt that badly, but he'll have to work a little harder now, which is good. Sheik is still ********.

 

[ReturningFall]

Sonic is still probably top 3. Diddy isn't hurt that badly, but he'll have to work a little harder now, which is good. Sheik is still ********.

Actually, it's weird. Like hoohah connects easier now it has less knockback. Diddy will always be at the top if simply for his aerials and his banana->smash string.

 

[HoS_Beast]

Regardless, i am still seeing a bigger opportunity for the unnerfed yoshi now.
probably not top 3 but maybe a top 5, depending on the rise/fall of other characters after the patch

 

[WritersBlah]

Patch notes are currently telling us that our get-up attack has less ending lag. So, one minor buff? Can anyone confirm this?

 

[YoHeKing]

I noticed his fair has a tiny bit range then before. His down throw up air combo is actually guaranteed to kill if your opponent doesnt DI. I think his egg roll jumps a bit higher and faster. Also his sheild or sheild animation looks a frame faster. Also ive noticed he slides a tiny bit more.
All of these buffs seem just so little you can barly notice but you can tell in slow mo. My freind brought his wiiu over and we compared 1.0.6 to the 1.0.2

I tried out yoshis super sliding tech including the jump into back crouch sliding tech and the back crouch seems a bit faster and slides more. His super pivot slide seems alot easier to pull off and go further? Maybe its the stages that got more slippery and Yoshi stayed the same? Can some one confirm this?

 

[Delta-cod]

I noticed his fair has a tiny bit range then before. His down throw up air combo is actually guaranteed to kill if your opponent doesnt DI. I think his egg roll jumps a bit higher and faster. Also his sheild or sheild animation looks a frame faster. Also ive noticed he slides a tiny bit more.
All of these buffs seem just so little you can barly notice but you can tell in slow mo. My freind brought his wiiu over and we compared 1.0.6 to the 1.0.2

Merged with the patch discussion thread.

 

[Sinister Slush]

You really need to stop making multiple threads and double posting. Prolly would've gotten another warning by now.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Good guy Deltacod tho. Uh this could be placebo so I want a second opinion. I haven't wiffed a fsmash point blank in ages. Did they fix that?

 

[YoHeKing]

You really need to stop making multiple threads and double posting. Prolly would've gotten another warning by now.

Double post? I didnt post here I got linked here by delta. Thanks BTW delta!

 

[Delta-cod]

Good guy Deltacod tho. Uh this could be placebo so I want a second opinion. I haven't wiffed a fsmash point blank in ages. Did they fix that?

I've seen elsewhere that it hasn't been fixed, or if it has, not entirely. There are still reports of it whiffing.

By the way, do your platform write up boy.

 

[HoS_Beast]

Why was this cheap character not nerfed?

because yoshi is not cheap, he is well rounded and probably the most balanced character in the game.

 

[HoS_Beast]

Ummm she has NO lag on any of her aerials except for d air and my character can never punish anything she does.


F air and Up Smash have stupid amounts of range too.

Look, just because your character is bad at handeling yoshi's kit doesn't mean he is broken or should be nerfed. Nerfs should be based on the character in contrast to the rest of the lineup, not just one character.

 

[YoHeKing]

[quote_Beast, post: 19008406, member: 304821"]Look, just because your character is bad at handeling yoshi's kit doesn't mean he is broken or should be nerfed. Nerfs should be based on the character in contrast to the rest of the lineup, not just one character.[/quote]
Hes talking about sheik I think

 

[ReturningFall]

Ummm she has NO lag on any of her aerials except for d air and my character can never punish anything she does.


F air and Up Smash have stupid amounts of range too.

Only if you can't mentally let yourself get close enough to punish or try and punish with really slow moves. (hint, 90% of people I play smash WAAAAYYYY too often).

Have you played customs? The Palutena's lightweight lets you get in easily. Also, she outranges Yoshi with just about every attack.

 

[HoS_Beast]

Yoshi is easy mode, all his players do is fly around spamming aerials and throwing eggs.

I'm glad I main a character that actually requires skill

'I suppose you queens wouldn't know much about that though.

salty to the brim. If you think yoshi doesn't require skill then you are wrong. I am however not going to endulge myself into such a silly argument. I am sorry you have had issues with yoshi, but i recomend you practice against him, learn to play against him

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Stop feeding the troll guys lol, keep it on topic

 

[Sinister Slush]

Fuujin is silly, think that's his 30th or so account.

 

[elmike]

He will always struggle against fast characters because he simply lacks the frame data to compete.

I disagree here. I main fox, and one of my other favorite characters is. And Yoshi is one of the hardest MU for Fox, which is one of the fastest in the game. So i think that is not an universal statement.

Also, when you say people (and i quote) "overrate him drastically", do you mean he is not even top 6-7 for example? If not, can you say which characters do you consider to be better (overall) than yoshi?

 

[DragN]

I disagree here. I main fox, and one of my other favorite characters is. And Yoshi is one of the hardest MU for Fox, which is one of the fastest in the game. So i think that is not an universal statement.

Also, when you say people (and i quote) "overrate him drastically", do you mean he is not even top 6-7 for example? If not, can you say which characters do you consider to be better (overall) than yoshi?

I think that when people say Yoshi is "overrated", it refers to how "flawless" he seemed at launch. Yoshi still has the problems he had in previous games, but they aren't as bad as in Smash 4. In terms of the characters that are immediately better than him. They are Diddy, Sheik, Rosalina and Zamus. Maybe Sonic? (Though with the patch, Diddy becomes more manageable and Sonic doesn't have the Buster Art on his Spindash! XD) I see Yoshi as the "heavy tank" of the high tiers, Sheik, Diddy and the others are all super fast lightweights, while Yoshi is a bigger, bulkier target. Personally, I only see Yoshi struggling with Sheik and Rosalina, we have the moves to go even with the kong and zss, and we fare decently against everyone else.

 

[Sinister Slush]

With current patch, it's hard to gauge Diddy and Sonic now. Still feel like it can look like this

Sheik Pika/ZSS Luigi Fox Ness C.falcon Rosalina (no order outside of the top 5), doubt the nerfs to the two above is enough to knock em out of top 10, but they're no longer top 1-3 at least.
I'd rank Yoshi around the 8-12 area simply cause there's still a lot of characters with untapped potential that can be better than him prolly like Wario Mario ROB and Peach.
As for Fox vs Yoshi. We had quite the discussion on it forever ago and we all couldn't agree on anything cause some fox mains tried putting like -3 or -2 against Yoshi while some Yoshi's tried putting 0/+1 in fox's favor.

Whenever the video is uploaded I did the best I've ever done against my states best player, so you all can watch that eventually. For now this isn't the MU thread discussion so keep it on downlow for now, maybe even have this thread locked since the patch is done with and nothing really changed for Yoshi.

 

[Delta-cod]

Characters that are probably better than Yoshi: Sheik, Sonic, Diddy, Falcon, Fox, Mii Brawler

Characters that people will rank above Yoshi that I don't think are that good: Rosalina, Pika, ZSS, Ness, Luigi, Mario

Of my first grouping, Yoshi is of similar strength to Falcon, Fox, and Brawler, and possibly now Diddy because of the patch. However, I think Sonic/Sheik are much better than everyone else over all. I think Yoshi goes even/is only slightly disadvantaged against all these characters, except for Sheik who beats us solidly.

 

[HoS_Beast]

to be honest i have massive problems with zss, but that is mostly because i such at air dodging. I have so many mechanical things i need to practice.

Sheik is complete terror, i instaleave once i meet one online since i won't even have fun vs a shiek

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Characters that are probably better than Yoshi: Sheik, Sonic, Diddy, Falcon, Fox, Mii Brawler

Characters that people will rank above Yoshi that I don't think are that good: Rosalina, Pika, ZSS, Ness, Luigi, Mario

Of my first grouping, Yoshi is of similar strength to Falcon, Fox, and Brawler, and possibly now Diddy because of the patch. However, I think Sonic/Sheik are much better than everyone else over all. I think Yoshi goes even/is only slightly disadvantaged against all these characters, except for Sheik who beats us solidly.

I think Yoshi is on pretty even terms with Mario, Luigi and Rosalina, but I think Rosalina is still a better character. I think Pikachu and Mii Brawler are characters with more untapped potential than Yoshi, especially the latter. I'm willing to bet that Brawler is top 3 in the game after watching ZeRo and M2K's dittos.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Characters that are probably better than Yoshi: Sheik, Sonic, Diddy, Falcon, Fox, Mii Brawler

Characters that people will rank above Yoshi that I don't think are that good: Rosalina, Pika, ZSS, Ness, Luigi, Mario

Of my first grouping, Yoshi is of similar strength to Falcon, Fox, and Brawler, and possibly now Diddy because of the patch. However, I think Sonic/Sheik are much better than everyone else over all. I think Yoshi goes even/is only slightly disadvantaged against all these characters, except for Sheik who beats us solidly.

Not saying Falcon isn't better than Yoshi, but you might be overrating him a bit. He's like the most balanced of the speedy combo types imo. He has to earn all of his damage because his approaches aren't all that good. He's like Brawl Falcon with actual followups.

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm not trying to indicate that all those characters are on even footing with each other. Falcon's definitely at the lower end of those groupings.

 

[Meta_Yoshi]

Yoshi better then Luigi.....
That's a joke.

 

[DragN]

Yoshi better then Luigi.....
That's a joke.

I dunno. Yoshi can gimp Mama Luigi very easily and escape those d-throw combos with the Double jump. We kill quicker too. Unless Weegee sweetspots an up-b, gets a misfire missile, side-smash or an aerial cyclone....Mr. L has it a bit rough. And then theres the MASSIVE difference in aerial speed...

 

[Delta-cod]

Luigi, in my opinion, lacks the neutral game to be good.

 

[Enoki]

Yoshi doesn't get enough credit for his ability to air camp. Air camping can definitely be dealt with by some of the top tiers, but it takes a lot of patience. Thus, he's very good at controlling the pace of the match and trying to find an opening to punish hard, which every one knows because his damage output is so good. However, all this is unfortunately balanced by a lack of kill setups and safe kill options, a meh neutral game, and an overall mediocre ground game. On paper, I think he does lose to other top tiers, but most people just aren't practiced enough against Yoshi.
I still believe he is somewhat overrated. His lack of a grab game (and usable roll, defensive options, etc) will always keep him from being top 5, BUT every character will have to work hard against Yoshi to get the win. I'm feeling like he's the low end of high tier, just a bit disadvantaged against the top 8 or so.
@ Delta-cod I think you're seriously underestimating the potential of Rosalina, Pika, ZSS, and Luigi. If you're putting Mii Brawler that high, I assume you're talking about customs on, in which case Rosalina and Pikachu are easily top 5. Whereas I only see Yoshi dropping slightly on the tier list over time, those are underrepresented characters with very large potential. I think Dabuz's Rosalina is a good example - there are like NO other Rosalinas (besides Iggy I guess), but his alone showcases her true potential.
Also, I have to disagree about Luigi's neutral game. I feel like it's for sure better than Yoshi's, whom Luigi outclasses in most ways. I think Luigi could be top 10.
(What do you mean by "not good?" :3)

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

To do anything worthwhile, Luigi has to get a grab. Grab followups aren't neutral game for Luigi, trying to get a grab is. It's not that good lol.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I think Pikachu and Mii Brawler are characters with more untapped potential than Yoshi

God damn it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=waR9js3dabI

 

[Sinister Slush]

Luigi and Yoshi's neutral bout the sameish.
Only difference is if Luigi eventually gets in, his reward is absolutely massive compared to Yoshi. Especially if he gets a grab.

 

[ReturningFall]

Luigi and Yoshi's neutral bout the sameish.
Only difference is if Luigi eventually gets in, his reward is absolutely massive compared to Yoshi. Especially if he gets a grab.

How do you figure Yoshi and Luigi have similar neutrals? Yoshi is significantly faster, has better ground options and more range overall.

God damn it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=waR9js3dabI

Indeed. First Fox and his infinite jabs, now this.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

God damn it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=waR9js3dabI

****in' knew it. First time i saw twave i knew it would be stupid. At least its range is garbage.

 

[Sinister Slush]

That and no pikachu in their right mind would get rid of quick attack 1 just to have meteors for a very situational thing to happen.
http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-588#post-19024446

Yoshi is fast on the ground but has no good approach options.
Luigi is slow on the ground and only has fireballs to slowly bring himself in. When either of the two finally get in Yoshi only has moves like jab nair or DA which all three are "get away from me" moves when he already worked a bit just to get in only to punt them away, while Luigi is grab jab and Usmash. One of which can get him the grab which gives him 30+% combos or even a kill.

 

[Enoki]

Maybe Luigi is overall slower, but I think that fireballs provide an overall better approach because Luigi can follow behind them and retain multiple options including a grab, Attack, jumping, or crossing up with roll, whereas Yoshi can follow up eggs with either aerial or neutral b, or he can do nothing. A smart opponent can deal with egg spam or fireball spam, but I think that fireballs, while slower, just generally leave Luigi in a better position. More control. Hence what I consider a better neutral game.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Fireballs don't really limit the opponent though. You have more options but so do they. They're so easy to deal with you can't really consider it a good approach. Yoshi's eggs are easy to deal with too, but they limit people a lot more than Luigis fireballs can. Its more to tack on extra damage than for approaching anyway.

 

[Delta-cod]

@ Delta-cod I think you're seriously underestimating the potential of Rosalina, Pika, ZSS, and Luigi. If you're putting Mii Brawler that high, I assume you're talking about customs on, in which case Rosalina and Pikachu are easily top 5. Whereas I only see Yoshi dropping slightly on the tier list over time, those are underrepresented characters with very large potential. I think Dabuz's Rosalina is a good example - there are like NO other Rosalinas (besides Iggy I guess), but his alone showcases her true potential.
Also, I have to disagree about Luigi's neutral game. I feel like it's for sure better than Yoshi's, whom Luigi outclasses in most ways. I think Luigi could be top 10.
(What do you mean by "not good?" :3)

Mii Brawler does not require customs to be on.

Rosalina is slow, and I don't think her traps will hold up as the faster characters learn. People need to learn to play neutral against Luma, not Rosa, in most cases. With Luma out of the picture Rosy has quite the lackluster neutral game, and can be exploited.

Pika still has 000000000000000000000000 range.

ZSS still has no real approach.

Luigi still has no neutral, as others have argued for me in general.

These last three characters all, in my opinion, share a common fault: they lack a real neutral game, and rely on their punish games to make up for that. That will work as people are still bad. But you can never truly make up for a lacking neutral game. And thus, these characters are bad.

Good characters are characters that are solo viable, in my opinion. Everyone else is a different level of bad. Thus, the only good characters I see at the moment are Sheik/Diddy?/Sonic?/Brawler?

Everyone else is bad.