Guide The Mario Match-Up Discussion Thread

[Melaf]

I seriously think that mario shouldnt try to go airborne against jiggs lol beside occasional uair and bair when you have an oppening in the wall of death but most of the time mario should stay grounded or Fulljump his arial ... and like most people said Wsmash or pivot the f smash with good spacing it will make jiggs hesitate and then you can mix up some air game if you play offence against a death wall you cant win =/

 

[MarioMariox2]

Essentially, the aim of Mario vs Jiggz is to out-prioritize or clash Jiggz's aerials as a mix-up while making full use of Mario's ground moves.

I think we should go for a Street Fighter approach here and camp Jiggz by running away and launching fireballs at her to offset the pace. By doing so, we can allow Mario to use his aerials or approach to CC into Upsmash. Unlike most matchups for Mario, vs Jiggz is more about disrupting her pace than stage mobility/control or even attacking alot since she can be killed at a relatively low %.

Ban DL64, Counter YS or FoD.

 

[Melaf]

good post man Its pretty much to best strategy to me as far as Ive tryed this one might be the only real one xD

 

[Blanky]

if you play like a rookie jiggs will **** you which means no rolling, no charging in without a plan of hown to get out of there, and lots of fireballs. if she higher then you Uair, if she misses her bair by inches Bair her. if you grab her either Dthrow or Bthrow. when you have the advantage you have to make every hit count.

capes help in this Match up because it throw jiggs of for a moment and that all you need to get a UpB or an aerial off. UpB OoS will save your *** and since i only use whenever im in a very bad spot jiggs doesnt se it coming

at low damages dont be afraid to get hit (unless your in the air).....everyone gets hit..its how you react to getting hit is what will change the fate of the match

60/40 and im willing to debate this

haha again, pretty much the only jiggs i've played for an extensive amount of time happens to be one of the top players, and is the 3rd best Jiggs player on earth, so my opinion might not be worth much since he's better than all of us as an overall player anyway haha. you probably play with jigglypuff players that are closer to your level, so you probably know more about the match-up on average than i ever would since Mango HBox and Darc are far ahead from the rest of the Jiggs community haha

all i know is, i cant see a top mario player beating a top jiggs player (unless the mario player is mango). but if i get to play an average Jiggs player instead of a completely **** one, i'll probably revise my thoughts. so you're argument holds a lot more weight than mine does

 

[Melaf]

lol have you ever been able to beat darc s jiggs at least one time blanky?

 

[Blanky]

Haha never man. He's way too good a player. He places top 10 at nationals, when I probably wouldn't even make it out of pools at a national hahaha . He's got tons of experience, knowledge, and overall skill over me... although he did teach me how to beat jiggs with one of my secondaries and I almost beat him with it .

I'm hoping to go over his place again soon though and i'll test out all of the suggestions you guys give to see if I do any better.

 

[condemned_soul]

dude ask him to teach you how to play jiggs......it isnt a bad thing to have a very rapey secondary

 

[Blanky]

dude ask him to teach you how to play jiggs......it isnt a bad thing to have a very rapey secondary

wtf?....


WHY HAVENT I THOUGHT OF THAT!!!!

haha you're a genius! right now my secondaries are falco, pikachu, peach, and sheik, but each are only for emergencies/certain matchups/for fun. i know enough tech skill stuff to be good with each, but i donlt play them enough to be consistent and on point (takes me a bit to get used to wavelanding/dashing with falco after playing with mario for hours)

but with jiggs i wont have to worry! and i'd have one of the best puff players teaching me!

man oh man you are onto something there, much props. i might go to his place tuesday, and if not i'll probably go on May 1st. i'll keep you guys posted and im buying a dazzle!

 

[MarioMariox2]

Personally I would secondary Doc to at least keep the Mario theme going but I guess Falco it is.

 

[condemned_soul]

@Blanky: your welcome man just dont leave mario behind after you learn jiggs

@MarioMarioX2: dont worry just the fact that you use mario is good enough dont do anything wreckless......I miss M@1FUNKSH!N

 

[Blanky]

@Blanky: your welcome man just dont leave mario behind after you learn jiggs

@MarioMarioX2: dont worry just the fact that you use mario is good enough dont do anything wreckless......I miss M@1FUNKSH!N

never man, Jiggs seems too boring, Mario stays bossin' it.

and i dont miss him. because even though he isnt here posting with us right now, he will always be posting in my heart...









AND IM HEAVY TRAININ FOR A TOURNEY THE 21ST, HOW DO I MAKE NEEDLECAMPING SHEIK AND MARTH DIE!

 

[MarioMariox2]

never man, Jiggs seems too boring, Mario stays bossin' it.

and i dont miss him. because even though he isnt here posting with us right now, he will always be posting in my heart...

AND IM HEAVY TRAININ FOR A TOURNEY THE 21ST, HOW DO I MAKE NEEDLECAMPING SHEIK AND MARTH DIE!

Okay, Dr. MarioMariox2 (Theoretical Ph.D in theorybrewing Mario matchups) here.

Marth: Marth is a tricky matchup here.

Essentially, there are two types of Marths:

- Aerial Pressurer
- Tipping Waiter

With such enormous power in the tippers, Mario has a seemingly impossible chance to win, right? Quite the contrary.

Mario specializes in close combat with the only move that needs proper spacing being his FSmash. This opens up a flurry of counters against the counterer himself, just so long as you don't give him the tippers Marth usually aims for.

Against the airborne Marth, I recommend mixing up rising aerials from below so you can try to land on platforms and follow up.

Against the patient grounded Marth, approach cautiously--maybe toss a fireball (wavelanding towards) to prevent the smash and get hits in.

In this matchup, feel free to try a combo-game; Marth is floatier than Roy, but all the same you'll be able to make consecutive assaults. Despite how good it seems, don't counterpick DL64. Counterpick YS and play intelligently but technically. You're too floaty for his grabs so remember the Dair if you ever find yourself in the air.


Shiek: ...Um I haven't played a tourney-Shiek so I can't go in depth here, but I can assume that CCC (Crouch-Cancel Counter) smashing can work. Mario's Dsmash can almost get you out of any ground situation.

Hope this helps.

 

[Blanky]

Okay, Dr. MarioMariox2 (Theoretical Ph.D in theorybrewing Mario matchups) here.

Marth: Marth is a tricky matchup here.

Essentially, there are two types of Marths:

- Aerial Pressurer
- Tipping Waiter

With such enormous power in the tippers, Mario has a seemingly impossible chance to win, right? Quite the contrary.

Mario specializes in close combat with the only move that needs proper spacing being his FSmash. This opens up a flurry of counters against the counterer himself, just so long as you don't give him the tippers Marth usually aims for.

Against the airborne Marth, I recommend mixing up rising aerials from below so you can try to land on platforms and follow up.

Against the patient grounded Marth, approach cautiously--maybe toss a fireball (wavelanding towards) to prevent the smash and get hits in.

In this matchup, feel free to try a combo-game; Marth is floatier than Roy, but all the same you'll be able to make consecutive assaults. Despite how good it seems, don't counterpick DL64. Counterpick YS and play intelligently but technically. You're too floaty for his grabs so remember the Dair if you ever find yourself in the air.


Shiek: ...Um I haven't played a tourney-Shiek so I can't go in depth here, but I can assume that CCC (Crouch-Cancel Counter) smashing can work. Mario's Dsmash can almost get you out of any ground situation.

Hope this helps.

thanks for your input man i'll see what will work best for me

and i really have no problem with Sheik, i did VERY well against arguably the best sheik here in New England in tournament. i just have trouble with needle-camping sheiks. i did worse against a bad Sheik that camps than i did against a semi-pro Sheik!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Marth gets ***** if he jumps a lot against Mario. Crouch and F-smash that all day man. Like 80% of the time I see a Marth jump at me, I crouch, I F-smash their nuts, and I laugh like an evil villain. All the Marth players in my area who know my playstyle will agree that jumping against me is not wise.

Marth's D-tilt is the most lame part of the matchup since you really can't do anything reliable OOS against it. Mario's small shield is the 2nd lamest thing about the matchup if you're not careful.

Honestly the only thing you need to do against Marth is find a way to get him offstage, and then gimp his ***. He's SUPER easy for Mario to gimp, especially if he has to recover low. One B-air is all it takes once you have him offstage. Oh yeah keep his spacing honest with F-smash as well. Even Marth has to respect it.

All in all if you can keep him guessing, know how to juggle wisely, and don't let him gimp you too often, you should be fine against Marth. Fun matchup if you're playing in top condition since Mario can generally punish Marth's mistakes pretty hard and since good DI makes it very hard for Marth to kill you early. Very lame matchup if you're feeling the slightest bit not confident in your execution since you aren't allowed to be sloppy when approaching him.

 

[Melaf]

That lame part is my problem lol marth seem unaproachable same thing with jiggs lol

I had some matches against marths where my spacing was crazy good and could space a f smash against his f smash and still *outrange* marth but beside some occasional marth **** I just dont get how you can play against a grounded wisely spacing evrything he has on the ground.....as soon you get launched midair you cant do a **** beside DI away and most of the time marth can follow you pretty much everywhere on stage with a utilt or fsmash if you are not carefull lol

Ive heard the cape Di****box could be a good idea if you are trying to DI or get away from marth trying to juggling you but I wonder with the cape do you have to hit the actual character hitbow to turn him around or for exemple you hit marth s sword you still get the turnaround on him?

Btw mariomariox2 when you said to counterpick YS against marth I loled...Im not really sure its a good idea becasue of the platform and the lack of possibility for mario to really pull off aerial combos plus you get tip f smash at around 50 in this and your dead wherever you are on YS and the Dair you mentionned is no good against marth without an openner to put the move in Id suggest get a Full jumped dair from a throw fastfall and react with a Fsmash or utilt/uair depending and where he DI and if he Dair/nair/fair or bair if he attack with anything exept Dair you can juggle the **** out of him since beign under marth is the best place for mario....well at least for me...or you can pull of an easy f smash if hes eager too much at landing before you you can pull off an uair directly after the dair and continu combo onto platform or regrab the throw Dair is really good against marth at mid percent seriously I mean if you dont feel confident enough or if you dont have the space for uairs its the way to go lol lots of combo can start this way

 

[MarioMariox2]

Btw mariomariox2 when you said to counterpick YS against marth I loled...

I understand why you would see YS as a bad counterpick but from how I see it, the low platforms allow for easier rising aerials and the close blast lines, despite sacrificing your own survivablity, increase the versatility of Mario's smashes as Marth is floaty.

 

[A2ZOMG]

FoD is undeniably the best stage against Marth. The platforms actually benefit you more than they benefit him.

Cape is pretty useless as an attack against Marth, since you might as well be F-smashing most of the time that would work, but Cape Stalling to avoid juggles is situationally useful.

Yeah Marth is tough if he has good ground spacing. You kinda just want to pester him with wavelanded fireballs if he's on the ground a lot. And you just want to hope he throws out a move that is unsafe on block.

 

[Melaf]

Im still wondering about how the cape works if you hit a disjointed hitbox like marth sword does it still hits or not? and yeah marth against mario on ground move mario can punish only by Wavedashing out of sheild arial is too risky and running to grab is just stupid because marth outrange by double his range

 

[A2ZOMG]

No, you have to actually hit the character.

 

[Melaf]

ok because sometimes it looks maybe because of the invisible hitbox from the cape that it just go trough anything with insane priorities lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey trust me, it's easy to get fooled by Marth and his wacky hurtbox. The key thing is that Marth leans forward a lot on several of his moves. This is how every so often a clutch moment will happen where Marth gets outranged in ridiculous situations. The way Marth leans is a factor in why his range is so huge.

 

[Melaf]

I know that with the F smash his hitbox go through his disjointed sword and if you time well you can clash and also f smash and hit him despite having a clashing noise lol already did that almost a dozen times lol and most of the time the marth just get frustrated beign outranged by a mario and rageplay(lose)

 

[Blanky]

i organized a little mini smashfest yesterday, and i was planning to buy my dazzle before playing so that we can record....but i didnt...and i wish is had.

i would have had enough material for a combo video! omggggg you guys shoulda seen it im now very angry at myself. unfortunately there were no Marth mains for me to practice against, but one had Marth as a secondary. i did really well, i just used more f-smash and i was all set thanks guys!


AND USMASH OOS -> USMASH -> UAIR -> FSMASH ON FOX IS SEXY

 

[MarioMariox2]

No prob! The Mario community isn't dead yet!

 

[condemned_soul]

not as long as im here atleast but im have pulled the coolest fox combos and cant rcord them.......omg imma try to make a mario combo vid

 

[ChivalRuse]

If only Mario could combo even without bad DI.

 

[Melaf]

finnaly able to trash marth looolll you gotta grab more lol.... no but actually messing with his range is the best taunting him to attack your sheild and then wd oos is the best against marth somewhat like the sheik vs marth matchup but well you gotta have a great spacing if you play against marth cuz damn that hairy blue ****** can slap you with his faster wd combined with F smash if your not carefull with spacing Ive also learned that jumping when your close to him is really bad lolll he can juggle mario like a ****ing mofo even if you Smash DI away from his uptilt/upair

 

[ChivalRuse]

Mario does fine against Marth. Just don't get u-thrown.

 

[condemned_soul]

yeah if the marth is fair spammy it becomes so much more annoying. Damn disjointed hitbox

 

[ChivalRuse]

F-smash can beat fairs. You can nair/bair/uair oos, shield grab if they're poorly spaced, just dash dance and nair him for throwing them out. In short, he can't actually spam, because Mario has just barely the speed to get in and punish (or at least pressure).

 

[condemned_soul]

lol you should i have seen me playing dart.........it was horrible

you can also bait the attack by spamming fireballs until he comes to you, oh and Dthrow is like one of your best friends in this MU

 

[ChivalRuse]

Dart is really good. Haha.

 

[A2ZOMG]

yeah if the marth is fair spammy it becomes so much more annoying. Damn disjointed hitbox

Marth F-airs are the least of your problems tbh. At low percents they are easy crouch cancel bait. If he REALLY insists on spamming them, just crouch more and fish for F-smashes. 8/10 times whenever I see a Marth jump at me, I can generally just duck under whatever they do and punish the whiff with F-smash.

Marth is easy if all he does is jump around and deludes himself into thinking his F-air is an unstoppable wall, since you can basically WD oos and space F-smash all day until you get in a favorable trade or some sort. He becomes a legitimate threat when he forces you to think past his D-tilt first. Try not to get caught shielding that move, since it's gay to deal with.

The great thing about playing against Marth is that he's really easy for Mario to gimp. Hitting him once with a B-air when he's offstage will do the trick. Simply judge whether or not he's going to recover high or low first. If you KNOW he has to recover low, he shouldn't make it back against you.

 

[condemned_soul]

but still mario can get destroyed by fairs and most of them are are followed by........wait for it.........DAIRS.

and this is why i cant sleep at night XD

 

[A2ZOMG]

but still mario can get destroyed by fairs and most of them are are followed by........wait for it.........DAIRS.

and this is why i cant sleep at night XD

Late reply but w/e.

You should never actually get Ken comboed in a serious match. The range at where you might actually not be able to escape it is really narrow, and once you're at high percents, DIing away from him whenever he's in the air pretty much prevents him from killing you ever for the most part. Just keep an eye for random B-airs and N-airs mainly and his aerials should almost never kill you.

Crouching also mostly ***** Marth for committing to aerials.

 

[condemned_soul]

thanx for the tips.......even though it took you forever to post it lol

 

[Hellsinglover999]

thanx for the tips.......even though it took you forever to post it lol

if u wanted to learn mario vs marf why diddnt u just tell me i will play that with u abunch next smashfest

 

[Melaf]

Ive learned this matchup for the past weeks and at start I feeled that marth was **** against mario but well if you know what to check out and dont jump around too much you will not get **** .....marth will....still against marth reaction time is critical if you can outreact a marth attacks with a crouch f smash or pivot f smash the marth player will usualy stop air attacking or just make less attemp then you can fireball the **** out of him and grab combo his *** lollll to be brief I think Crouching is the best move you can use against marth since he cant grab you cant fair or bair easily and if he does well CC smash works you gotta set the pace with mario against marth if you dont you will always get rushed and lacking room to move against marth is no good tbh loll also you gotta learn to Tech and sweetspot and not trying to tech but wallteching like a dumb**** and forget to up b right after and then die like I Used to do

 

[condemned_soul]

if u wanted to learn mario vs marf why diddnt u just tell me i will play that with u abunch next smashfest

its not that i need marth practice.......its just A2Z is now a stranger here and he finally post here

 

[M@1funk$hun]

There you go soul now quit bugging me