The Many Faces of Evil. (Ganon's video thread)

[Sykkamorre]

The game has been released, and it is now the time to show the world the new and improved 'Dorf!

So I have created this as a place to post any and all videos pertaining to the Lord of Darkness.

Go!

 

[Hokori]

Preferably, actual match footage and custom moves in action

 

[Sykkamorre]

Preferably, actual match footage and custom moves in action

Indeed.

You heard the man.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

These two videos are a start.

Vs Charizard http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vpJ2ggM5K_I

Vs DDD http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jnpvQiGbCOw

Ganon's damage racking is insane. Aerial Choke does 15% while the grounded does 11% and I think both could be followed up.

Dash attack seemed to have gotten a huge nerf now though.

 

[Bahamut777]

Hello, fellow Kings of Evil. We are gathered again!

I'm happy that Big Ol' G got some of his **** together and looks playable. His damage got boosted, his second jump is higher, many of his moves have less startup and a little more (horizontal) range, BAir is insanely quick and good, UAir still have Tipman and we can't get edgehoged this time. :D
It saddens me that sword is a custom move, our recovery is still a goddamn joke, we can't thunderstorm anymore, we don't get our jump back from DownB (wasnt expecting it to, but... oh well), our grab range is very close to nonexistent and our hurtbox is bigger than ever.
Some mystery still remains to me about some stuff. I haven't seen an UTilt until now, Warlock Punch is rumored to have heavy armor but unconfirmed, Wizard's Foot's lesser range but quicker startup is very gamechanging for our approach and I have no real idea how it will change it, is Wizkick Cancel still a thing? How are our throws? So many questions...

Personally, I can't wait to get my hands in a copy of the game and test it for myself, but I'm confident this time we can be out of the Triforce tier. :D

BTW...

The biggest and heaviest nerf is...
AERUDO. IS. TECHABLE.

 

[Z1GMA]

Hello, fellow Kings of Evil. We are gathered again!

I'm happy that Big Ol' G got some of his **** together and looks playable. His damage got boosted, his second jump is higher, many of his moves have less startup and a little more (horizontal) range, BAir is insanely quick and good, UAir still have Tipman and we can't get edgehoged this time. :D
It saddens me that sword is a custom move, our recovery is still a goddamn joke, we can't thunderstorm anymore, we don't get our jump back from DownB (wasnt expecting it to, but... oh well), our grab range is very close to nonexistent and our hurtbox is bigger than ever.
Some mystery still remains to me about some stuff. I haven't seen an UTilt until now, Warlock Punch is rumored to have heavy armor but unconfirmed, Wizard's Foot's lesser range but quicker startup is very gamechanging for our approach and I have no real idea how it will change it, is Wizkick Cancel still a thing? How are our throws? So many questions...

Personally, I can't wait to get my hands in a copy of the game and test it for myself, but I'm confident this time we can be out of the Triforce tier. :D

BTW...

The biggest and heaviest nerf is...
AERUDO. IS. TECHABLE.

Hi, Baha. Long time no see.

Attacks having less startup might only be illusional since ssb4 is a "faster" game than Brawl.
Sort of how attacks in melee are generally faster than attacks in Brawl.

About edgehogging. Now when I think about it, the elimination of edgehogging is definitely one of the bigger buffs for Ganon.
It actually fantastic.

 

[Xinc]

Hello, fellow Kings of Evil. We are gathered again!

I'm happy that Big Ol' G got some of his **** together and looks playable. His damage got boosted, his second jump is higher, many of his moves have less startup and a little more (horizontal) range, BAir is insanely quick and good, UAir still have Tipman and we can't get edgehoged this time. :D
It saddens me that sword is a custom move, our recovery is still a goddamn joke, we can't thunderstorm anymore, we don't get our jump back from DownB (wasnt expecting it to, but... oh well), our grab range is very close to nonexistent and our hurtbox is bigger than ever.
Some mystery still remains to me about some stuff. I haven't seen an UTilt until now, Warlock Punch is rumored to have heavy armor but unconfirmed, Wizard's Foot's lesser range but quicker startup is very gamechanging for our approach and I have no real idea how it will change it, is Wizkick Cancel still a thing? How are our throws? So many questions...

Personally, I can't wait to get my hands in a copy of the game and test it for myself, but I'm confident this time we can be out of the Triforce tier. :D

BTW...

The biggest and heaviest nerf is...
AERUDO. IS. TECHABLE.

What is Aerudo? o.o

I'm sure Ganon is buffed to the point that he can contend with a lot of chumps. His movement is faster, which helps his play, and his fair landing lag is almost equivalent to his Melee l cancel one.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What is Aerudo? o.o

Aerial Side B

What I really want to see is Ganon's standing/Dashgrab range. Because his biggest problem in Brawl was a lack of grab range.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Dair won't always meteor. I witnessed it kill off the top from an edgeguarding situation.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Dair won't always meteor. I witnessed it kill off the top from an edgeguarding situation.

Yep, the front part of Ganon's body will send them forward.

 

[L9999]

His Up-Tilt still sucks.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Personally, I can't wait to get my hands in a copy of the game and test it for myself, but I'm confident this time we can be out of the Triforce tier. :D

Triforce tier might not be such a bad thing this time around. Link actually looks like a legitimately good character.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Well, it isn't much but I found this.

 

[Xinc]

His Up-Tilt still sucks.

Legit his up tilt is faster tho

And his down air has those weird air clouds on the side which sends them at a semispike angle, but weak

 

[ten Busch]

Well, it isn't much but I found this.

good to know he is still good at that atleast

 

[Naroghin]

I dunno, guys. :/

 

[Vermanubis]

His Up-Tilt still sucks.

His U-tilt's really good, I think. Lots of edgeguarding potential. I hate having to post my own video, but I don't know of any others I can use for reference to show what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b2AVcWQZZc#t=7m6s

Its huge range, and the unequivocally terrifying consequences of getting too brave (as my opponent did) all make for a really good move. It forces them to make a move, and because of the new ledge mechanics in Smash 4, their options'll be mitigated even more.

@ Bahamut777 : BAHA! My brother. Aerudo is techable? Well... I guess it's not so bad. After all, Ganon had significantly higher cool-down on Aerudo than Gerudo, so follow-ups thereafter were limited anyway. So, not so bad, I guess.

 

[Hokori]

So, anyone have some footage of the Dorf actually winning?

 

[Tino]

Are there any other gameplay footages of him in action besides the ones posted here?

 

[Z1GMA]

His U-tilt's really good

Frankly, it is a good move AND it sucks... (the wind-effect )

 

[Foughen]

So, anyone have some footage of the Dorf actually winning?

Ganondorf....


Winning....




NNNNNNNNNNNNN THE GANNON MAINS SURE HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR THIS TIME AROUND

 

[A2ZOMG]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24464962
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24469282

This is some pretty good Japanese Ganon footage. I still don't see many shieldgrabs from Ganon though. Worried it's because his grab range is still really bad. Also he clearly still struggles with zoning characters.

From what it looks like, AC SH D-air may in fact be out though from this guy's testing.

 

[Vermanubis]

Nice find, dude. The things I'm happiest about so far are a better NAir, better jab, quicker/stronger FTilt (more reliable kill options), and the fact that wizkick isn't punishable on hit anymore. From the look of it, the path of Ganon will still be reserved only for the brave. But how brave? That remains to be seen.

Oh, also, judging by how the one Ganon was able to DTilt the other Ganon out of Gerudo tells me that it's gonna be a universal thing. That's big, mostly because against characters like Marth/Lucina, when they get shieldy, it's extremely difficult to kill them - or was, in Brawl. Long roll = no tech chases, quick get-ups = no follow-ups. So gerudo didn't count for much.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh btw, I did also notice Wizkick canceling is still in, so you still have cool edge shenanigans. You can't do Flight of Ganon anymore though. Also his standing grab range still looks bad. Though Flame Choke at least does more damage and seems to have guaranteed combos on everyone.

I think Ganon at the end of the day, while better, is likely not super competitive. Though I feel with the few extra tools he got and the removal of chaingrabs and edgehogging, he should probably have fewer REALLY REALLY BAD matchups. But he's probably really reliant on powershielding still.

 

[Vermanubis]

A fine point as well! The combination of changed mechanics and changes to Ganon himself are enough to make him, indeed, at least a little more palatable for the uninitiated.

In any case, musical news. If PS being our best approach is the greatest of our worries, then you'll hear no complaints from me. The absence of auto-win MUs is itself a satisfactory buff in my eyes.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Oh btw, I did also notice Wizkick canceling is still in, so you still have cool edge shenanigans. You can't do Flight of Ganon anymore though. Also his standing grab range still looks bad. Though Flame Choke at least does more damage and seems to have guaranteed combos on everyone.

I think Ganon at the end of the day, while better, is likely not super competitive. Though I feel with the few extra tools he got and the removal of chaingrabs and edgehogging, he should probably have fewer REALLY REALLY BAD matchups. But he's probably really reliant on powershielding still.

Since when did that ever stop us?

By the looks of things, Ganon will no longer be bottom of the tier list.

Bad stuff: UAir, Dash Attack and DAir seem to have gotten weaker and lower kill power.

Few things I've noticed is that gerudo (both grounded and aerial) now does a massive amount of damage and has guaranteed follow ups. DTilt can kill much faster now, and I can see this being the prominent kill move for Ganon. Jab brings the opponent straight to the ground, so a jab after Gerudo leads the opponent into a position of disadvantage. BAir and Aerial Wizkick are surprisingly good at killing. 1:48 of first video had a wonderful use of Warlock Punch which led to a kill at 68%.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Of course it never stopped anybody. Ganondorf is the best character ever.

DA changes aren't all bad. You have better followups from it at low percents. And yeah, because Flame Choke does more damage, Ganon's damage racking is generally better, which means he suffers a bit less from stale moves in this game imo.

Even if Ganon still has bad grab range, D-throw eventually needs to be checked for combos, which Ganon almost certainly has. Anything that helps Ganon build damage is important so that you can then focus on landing that big KO move.

Surprisingly enough, I feel like airdodge changes don't actually help Ganon much in terms of followups. Most of Ganon's best land trap tools were generally moves that already had big lingering hitboxes like Wizkick and DA. And Ganon doesn't always have the mobility to set up other moves when chasing people for juggles. Although maybe SH-N-air is a bit underappreciated for juggles given I think it has lower landing lag? Meaning even if they dodged it, you would still likely be at a frame advantage.

Actually, on second thought, the airdodge changes at least make Flame Choke more reliable for chasing people during land traps.

 

[Vermanubis]

Did anyone notice if Ganon had any RCO? If not, that's yet another victory.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Didn't look like it. Getting back onstage is still hard due to airdodge changes though.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Just a video going through all of his moves.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

stop being so optimistic and just say he's garbage.
AGAIN

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

stop being so optimistic and just say he's garbage.
AGAIN

My mother taught me not to tell lies.

 

[Z1GMA]

I love Ganon's Utaunt Laughter in Brawl, but wow, it sounds even better in this game!

@ Vermanubis , Just curious - why do you find Jab better?

On a sidenote: I was hoping for a more traditional Jab this time around. Jab-cancel and stuff.
I mean Ganon spends a lot of time chasing his opponents, and pretty much all of his moves sends ppl away from him.
Sure he's good at setting up edgeguarding-attempts, where he excels, but many times campers benefit from his "pushy" moveset.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I feel like the real power of Ganon comes from edgeguarding, BECAUSE of the fact he's good at sending people flying. That's something we have to redevelop due to edge mechanic changes.

 

[Vermanubis]

I love Ganon's Utaunt Laughter in Brawl, but wow, it sounds even better in this game!

@ Vermanubis , Just curious - why do you find Jab better?

On a sidenote: I was hoping for a more traditional Jab this time around. Jab-cancel and stuff.
I mean Ganon spends a lot of time chasing his opponents, and pretty much all of his moves sends ppl away from him.
Sure he's good at setting up edgeguarding-attempts, where he excels, but many times campers benefit from his "pushy" moveset.

I read that it had faster start-up (adjusting for the faster overall gameplay, of course)

 

[Z1GMA]

(adjusting for the faster overall gameplay, of course)

So the faster speed of Jab isn't just illusional due to faster gameplay, but actually faster for real?
Those are some great news, bro.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I feel like the real power of Ganon comes from edgeguarding, BECAUSE of the fact he's good at sending people flying. That's something we have to redevelop due to edge mechanic changes.

edgehogging someone to force them off then ledgehop - dj - bair - uair seems potentially feasible, or even going for a dair, but someone would have to see how doable that is. from what i can tell the demo is an older build than the final product (hitstun cancel frames are later than the finished game it seems)

i also wonder about if we can follow up a dair groundbounce on a missed tech with anything, or even chase their tech.

 

[Z1GMA]

i also wonder about if we can follow up a dair groundbounce on a missed tech with anything

Dair Bounce > a fast attack like Uair, should work.
Let's name it Pogo Combo, or Pogo Sticking!

 

[Sykkamorre]

Dair Bounce > a fast attack like Uair, should work.
Let's name it Pogo Combo, or Pogo Sticking!

Dark pogo?
Malicious Flip?
Evil flair?
Bungee bomber?

Too many choices for Ganondorf related stuff.

 

[ten Busch]

Dark pogo?
Malicious Flip?
Evil flair?
Bungee bomber?

Too many choices for Ganondorf related stuff.

I'm voting for "Tribounce of Power"