Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[DJBor]

Drop Greninja and you're golden. Besides, you've got Toon Link and Mario. They'll cover any matchups you're having trouble with. It shouldn't matter though, you're playing Pikachu, master of the matchup.

I might need some help as well. Now that Palutena is on the scene, I'm wondering if I should finally make the move to swap Lucas for Palutena. My Lucas results have been dropping lately, while my Palutena and Villager results are on the rise. Either way I'm not changing from these 3, I've got my final roster decided. I'm only not sure if I want Palutena to not be such a "backup character" and if I should try to counterpick around her instead.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Drop Greninja and you're golden. Besides, you've got Toon Link and Mario. They'll cover any matchups you're having trouble with. It shouldn't matter though, you're playing Pikachu, master of the matchup.

I might need some help as well. Now that Palutena is on the scene, I'm wondering if I should finally make the move to swap Lucas for Palutena. My Lucas results have been dropping lately, while my Palutena and Villager results are on the rise. Either way I'm not changing from these 3, I've got my final roster decided. I'm only not sure if I want Palutena to not be such a "backup character" and if I should try to counterpick around her instead.

Do it. Also consider picking up Zelda again. I've played here a lot recently for fun and see the tricks she has. She's defiantly better than I thought

 

[Green Zelda]

Who are some good secondaries for and (separately, NOT together)?

 

[Lavani]

As I understand it, are Megaman's worst matchups. covers those well.

 

[Dream Cancel]

As I understand it, are Megaman's worst matchups. covers those well.

Mehhh if you're playing against a skilled main of either of those two characters and you can't handle the rush down, you're going to struggle hard. Luma will be gone instantly so you need to make sure your zoning is on point. I would recommend someone like DK because the discrepancy in kill power is pretty absurd and can easily polarize a match.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Who are some good secondaries for and (separately, NOT together)?

Likes etc. Characters who beat those who do well against projectiles like .

Likes etc. characters who don't struggle with range or even have range for themselves. Roy looses too and goes even with Imo. Either way with whoever you pick if day try out as secondaries since they both help . I'd actually say use both since they actually help each other out. They'd be great together ( I mean)

 

[DJBor]

and compliment each other really well, surprisingly enough. They're good coverage for each other. But if you really want them separate, here's a couple of options.
should be paired with a character that doesn't rely on projectiles, and has high speed. Best picks are probably .
is tough, because his matchup spread is pretty bad due to his challenging neutral game and bad recovery. You want someone with safer spacing techniques and a much more reliable recovery. Try out , but there's a lot more that fall into this category.

 

[Ecchin]

Do you guys know what character is something similar to in sm4sh ( mostly)?

 

[DJBor]

There's nobody quite like Pokemon Trainer. Obviously, made his return, and he's really good now, but Squirtle and Ivysaur's unique properties seem to have vanished from the game.
(mii gunner) shares some similarities to the Saur, most visibly when customs are allowed but even a little bit when they aren't.
As for Squirtle, it's hard to tell. Personally, I think each share some similarities, but I hadn't played Squirtle enough to know for sure.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Ecchin I would actually suggest as a substitute for if you have access to DLC. He has a much improved multipurpose tether grab, similar neutral air, gets the most out of spacing with many of his hitboxes, more consistent/reliable side special projectile in PK fire, and of course a second recovery option using up special that's safer than . Actually the closest character in this game I can think of at the moment.

As far as goes, I'll second . Good substitute, in my opinion.

Edit: Also, I'm more conflicted than ever about who I want to stick with as a secondary. Yay.

 

[DJBor]

Use some of the stuff in your community montage to boost your character. Looks really promising.
Even with those sick new combos, Jigglypuff still has a lot of matchups to cover with her difficult and risky neutral. You're looking for a secondary that has some weight, and laughs in the face of big disjoints. Also, you're going to want some ground speed.

seems like a good choice, as well as . Someone please add to this, there's probably more options out there.

 

[Green Zelda]

This is a bit of an odd question, but which characters are the most beginner friendly? I'm trying to teach my friend how to play smash properly, but I don't want him to use cloud (or Mario).

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

This is a bit of an odd question, but which characters are the most beginner friendly? I'm trying to teach my friend how to play smash properly, but I don't want him to use cloud (or Mario).

I'd say. Now if you wanna teach him the fundamentals then for zoning, for combos and all around, for aggressive, for projectiles, for tilts, and for neutral and bad recovery.

 

[Painting]

Hey guys, I'd like to hear some of your opinions here for a secondary to .
As a player, I mainly struggle against

 

[KniteBlargh]

Use some of the stuff in your community montage to boost your character. Looks really promising.
Even with those sick new combos, Jigglypuff still has a lot of matchups to cover with her difficult and risky neutral. You're looking for a secondary that has some weight, and laughs in the face of big disjoints. Also, you're going to want some ground speed.

seems like a good choice, as well as . Someone please add to this, there's probably more options out there.

Oh cool, you watched the montage! Did you see my little effort around 1:38? I was sooo happy to be a part of that.

I have a lot of criteria choking the effort I put into finding a secondary. Believe it or not, was the second character who felt completely natural to me right from the start, ATs and all. However... There's all this stuff bothering me, which is ridiculous when I consider how many people I've had the privilege of guiding here without being able to help myself! I should probably list everything that's holding me back at some point.

is interesting. I don't think I'll be facing anyone seriously for a while, so I might just take this opportunity to get to know his stuff better...

Hey guys, I'd like to hear some of your opinions here for a secondary to .
As a player, I mainly struggle against

is showing himself to be more and more capable as time goes on, so if you're struggling with other top/high tiers, you may be looking for the usual backup to kind of cover everything, or if you think you can manage two complex characters, someone like .
This is a bit old, but here's Anti's Mario MU list which may help you find the right character to work on (I think Mario is one of the greatest threats among the characters you're struggling with, so his poor MUs should be a good place to look): https://i.imgur.com/WJYO5ZK.png

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hey guys, I'd like to hear some of your opinions here for a secondary to .
As a player, I mainly struggle against

Are your best bet.

 

[Ecchin]

I'm on the search of a main with great zoning tools and gimmicks, so i've wondering if / (maybe with custom moveset) are worth to solo main to focus on it and get some results (with the dog for example You3, Brood and Raito got good results by solo maining him in Japan)

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm on the search of a main with great zoning tools and gimmicks, so i've wondering if / (maybe with custom moveset) are worth to solo main to focus on it and get some results (with the dog for example You3, Brood and Raito got good results by solo maining him in Japan)

Mii's aren't allowed to have custom moves only the default set 1111 so I'd stay away from them plus they suck. I'd say go since he's just such a better character than but if you really want to use DH then do it. Watch Scatt and kamemushi from Japan for mega man tips.

 

[DJBor]

First of all, Japanese Duck Hunt is crazy.
Both of those characters are decent as solo mains, but they are among the most technical across the cast, and due to their challenges (most notably finishing off stocks) are best played with some sort of backup. A good backup for either of them would be Ness or Lucas with their high KO power, or even Donkey Kong for his lack of projectile and insane meteor potential.
Also, Mii Gunner is extremely underrated. My first main was 3-1-1-1 standard size Mii Gunner. Don't be afraid to main him/her, even with the default moveset, because there's very little tech required to be a very effective spacer.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Whelp I'm still struggling to decide my 3rd for . With these two the only matchups I struggle with are and I would like a 3rd to help out with them and a few others from time to time. I'm looking at as my options. Also in my area there are lots of and the top 10's characters are , , , , , , , , , . Help me please. I'd also be up for another suggestion for a character who can sweep through my region as a 3rd if there is one. some of the other characters id consider would be .

 

[KniteBlargh]

Also, Mii Gunner is extremely underrated.

Ecchin This. Default (size/specials) gets some ridiculous movement by combining backward hops with C-stick fairs, which can be hard for much of the roster to keep up with if properly utilized, while also throwing out a decent hitbox to reduce your opponent's options. Honestly my favourite out of the Miis, and it's a shame we don't get to see more of them. ROM is a notable Mii Gunner main; here's an example of what he manages to pull off with the character: https://youtu.be/FcTGFsefrfY

So in my case, as far as my hunt for a secondary goes, I keep gravitating toward characters I either just really like for who they are and/or how they're presented in this game (usually the happier looking characters of the cast), or ones who are highly technical, and I'm coming to the sad conclusion that most of them either share my main's most troublesome weaknesses, or they just don't make up for the weaknesses that sometimes force me to switch quite enough to warrant their use. DJBor actually summed up what I should be looking for brilliantly, yet I'm being so excruciatingly picky about the whole thing, it's driving me insane. LOL It's hard to find a character who is (1) preferably among the new challengers in this entry of Smash, (2) doesn't use a sword (everyone and their grandmother around here uses swords, so it makes me feel like being different), (3) can deal well with and in particular due to their crazy disjoints, (4) has enough technical intricacies to keep me from feeling like I'm playing something incredibly basic, (5) isn't someone my closest companions already play since that has a tendency of making the general vibe in the room pretty gloomy, and (6) isn't too obnoxious for some of the players I play with more regularly who are generally of a lower level than me (not saying I'm amazing, just based on the evidence). Honestly, there's probably even more criteria holding me back than this, and some of it, I know, should be ignored and I need to just get over it, but man it's hard...

I'll see about posting a list of the characters I tend to cycle through at some point as I sort things out more... Also, I think the only character I wouldn't consider aside from ones my usual crew already main/secondary/pocket is ; literally the only character I can't seem to like for anything.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Ecchin This. Default (size/specials) gets some ridiculous movement by combining backward hops with C-stick fairs, which can be hard for much of the roster to keep up with if properly utilized, while also throwing out a decent hitbox to reduce your opponent's options. Honestly my favourite out of the Miis, and it's a shame we don't get to see more of them. ROM is a notable Mii Gunner main; here's an example of what he manages to pull off with the character: https://youtu.be/FcTGFsefrfY

So in my case, as far as my hunt for a secondary goes, I keep gravitating toward characters I either just really like for who they are and/or how they're presented in this game (usually the happier looking characters of the cast), or ones who are highly technical, and I'm coming to the sad conclusion that most of them either share my main's most troublesome weaknesses, or they just don't make up for the weaknesses that sometimes force me to switch quite enough to warrant their use. DJBor actually summed up what I should be looking for brilliantly, yet I'm being so excruciatingly picky about the whole thing, it's driving me insane. LOL It's hard to find a character who is (1) preferably among the new challengers in this entry of Smash, (2) doesn't use a sword (everyone and their grandmother around here uses swords, so it makes me feel like being different), (3) can deal well with and in particular due to their crazy disjoints, (4) has enough technical intricacies to keep me from feeling like I'm playing something incredibly basic, (5) isn't someone my closest companions already play since that has a tendency of making the general vibe in the room pretty gloomy, and (6) isn't too obnoxious for some of the players I play with more regularly who are generally of a lower level than me (not saying I'm amazing, just based on the evidence). Honestly, there's probably even more criteria holding me back than this, and some of it, I know, should be ignored and I need to just get over it, but man it's hard...

I'll see about posting a list of the characters I tend to cycle through at some point as I sort things out more... Also, I think the only character I wouldn't consider aside from ones my usual crew already main/secondary/pocket is ; literally the only character I can't seem to like for anything.

sounds perfect for you. She's new, friendly looking, has a very high skill cao, and you said you dont struggle against Cloud so you could solo main her. also sounds like another option for you. The other characters . Thoughts on them? Try them out see how you like them

I've decided to use but I would like to have 3 more as secondaries in a sacred six team. I'm considering for it. Which 3 should I use?

 

[bubbyq12]

I was wondering who you guys think are the top 10 most common mains ? Personally, I like to use underused but good characters, so I just want to see who are the most common mains.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I was wondering who you guys think are the top 10 most common mains ? Personally, I like to use underused but good characters, so I just want to see who are the most common mains.

The most commonly used characters are Id say. Least common are .

 

[Aetheric]

I'm trying to find secondaries to go along with . Match-ups that I dislike include

 

[DJBor]

Okay, your Top 10 characters are correct. No denying that. Diddy Kong is the most common among those. Also, Dedede is wickedly popular for some reason.
Top 10 least used, from my POV, are

A Aetheric - Can't help you there. Are you okay moving out of a defensive style with this secondary? Looks like you could use a on your side.

 

[Aetheric]

Okay, your Top 10 characters are correct. No denying that. Diddy Kong is the most common among those. Also, Dedede is wickedly popular for some reason.
Top 10 least used, from my POV, are

A Aetheric - Can't help you there. Are you okay moving out of a defensive style with this secondary? Looks like you could use a on your side.

I'm fine with changing play styles with my secondary I would actually prefer that to throw people off with it

 

[bubbyq12]

The most commonly used characters are Id say. Least common are .

Okay, your Top 10 characters are correct. No denying that. Diddy Kong is the most common among those. Also, Dedede is wickedly popular for some reason.
Top 10 least used, from my POV, are

A Aetheric - Can't help you there. Are you okay moving out of a defensive style with this secondary? Looks like you could use a on your side.

Thanks guys. I just wanted to make sure that the character I main () isn't too overused. I kind of use her because I feel like she is very good but sort of under used since the nerf (which actually made me like her more because I never figured out 0 to deaths anyways) so this is great validation.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm trying to find secondaries to go along with . Match-ups that I dislike include

Are your best bets.

Also nvm about my questions I've got it figured out.

 

[ChillGuyMankey]

Hey, Main, I left the scene for a bit, but I recently acquired a problem with when I got back. So looking for a character as a pocket for fighting him.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hey, Main, I left the scene for a bit, but I recently acquired a problem with when I got back. So looking for a character as a pocket for fighting him.

Well looses to barely, and goes even with (imo)so one of them would be a good choice. The old is a great one I'd recommend. Especially since you're just looking for a pocket I'd say as well as since they do pretty good against cloud though they loose but just by a bit and they're easier to use.

I hate ...
One of the most frustrating to fight. He's so fun to play and I'd use him if he was more comfortable to me but I can't freaking beat him. Even a cpu! Ugh. How do I beat him. I've got In my arsenal who do I use to beat him?

 

[TheBeggingBard ~~JoMo~~]

So I'm looking for some massive weaknesses with my lineup (please note that my sig is a WIP)

Mains:
Secondaries:
Trimaries:

Edit: Should I pick another character or drop one? It's much appreciated.

 

[Green Zelda]

So I'm looking for some massive weaknesses with my lineup (please note that my sig is a WIP)

Mains:
Secondaries:
Trimaries:

Edit: Should I pick another character or drop one? It's much appreciated.

Like , isn't a great choice for a secondary character because of his high learning curve, so you may want to drop him (but if you really like him, you could just put in the extra work I guess )
After that, picking up would be a good idea. He's (or it's, idk lol) not only is he a great secondary choice, but also does well against, who gives the other 7 of your characters a hard time.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So I'm looking for some massive weaknesses with my lineup (please note that my sig is a WIP)

Mains:
Secondaries:
Trimaries:

Edit: Should I pick another character or drop one? It's much appreciated.

Well I can tell you that using 8 is WAY to much. 3 at most for mains/ secondaries. If you want another pocket or 2 that's fine but 3 main dis the most you should do. Since you have I'd say keep them you've got cloud... Anyway you will struggle with so if you can't handle them with any of those 3 then I'd suggest keeping as a pocket and/ or (only 2 out of the 3) to help with those matchups if you struggle. Or even if you struggle more them drop for one of them.

 

[TheBeggingBard ~~JoMo~~]

How would this revised list work out?

Mains:
Secondaries
Trimaries:

I really don't want to drop. Might just try and make him mycounter and only my counter. I've found that is quite good against and both .
Seeing as I used to main both and but began to use King Boozer and fell in love. I could never get into , he just never felt right to me.

In conclusion any characters that I should/need to pick up?

--The Bard

 

[DJBor]

and are not needed. They are both highly technical and are much better as mains than secondaries.
isn't necessary, but you could keep him as a pocket. Use him only when he has an advantage, and if you really need him. Also, when in an emergency where top tier just isn't working like a top tier, keeping in your posket will provide him backup.

Here's what I think you should make your roster:

Main:
Secondaries:
Pocket:

 

[TheBeggingBard ~~JoMo~~]

I've had a long history with Lucario and Lil'Mac. Sadly I guess I'll have to drop them cause I don't practice them very much anymore. Although I must ask, when's the best time to use DDD?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I've had a long history with Lucario and Lil'Mac. Sadly I guess I'll have to drop them cause I don't practice them very much anymore. Although I must ask, when's the best time to use DDD?

I agree with DJBor for the most part.
Main:
Secondary:
Pocket:
I actually disagree with beating since I use both and have to trouble with DDD. I'd say go or for them. Your warp plan is a good one. Use him for and maybe a few others. Use for the matchups you can't win with and if any get by fox then you have to cover them.
I am actually doing something very similar to you.
My mains:
My secondaries:
My pockets:

For matchups that beat like I use or to handle them. And if a for example beats my too then I go to. It's a wall of characters basically. Strongest out front and weakest in back.

 

[TheBeggingBard ~~JoMo~~]

Thank you all but I have ran into a problem. I suck at fox. I cannot get him to work for me even after working with him for a couple hrs. Is there someone who would compliment my roster?

 

[DJBor]

Who needs when you have ?
You could just drop Fox and be fine. You seem to prefer your heavyweights anyway, and it seems that your variety of heavy options, backed up by Cloud, will still give you a very strong counterpick game.
But, that's one opinion. There are other options, like picking up another similar character like the formerly-mentioned .