Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hey I haven't chosen a main for this game yet but I was wondering if there was a character that was mostly based around combos that I haven't Mained in other games so I don't mess up my other mains. My mains in other games are marth fox/Falco kirby and wolf

 

[Jackguti]

Hey everyone new here to smashboards. Basically I need help with coming up with a secondary character. My mains are and but I seem to have trouble finding a secondary. I've tried and but I'm having a tough time using them. Is there a character I should check out? My general play style I would personally say can vary. For example sometimes with , I'll play aggressive and sometimes I'll play back and be a little defensive. Should I choose a style and stick with it? Thanks for the help!

 

[DJBor]

"I need help finding a secondary." mains
How many times do I have to say it... if you're using a top tier (or even a high tier in some cases) you don't need a secondary. If anything call your secondary.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hey everyone new here to smashboards. Basically I need help with coming up with a secondary character. My mains are and but I seem to have trouble finding a secondary. I've tried and but I'm having a tough time using them. Is there a character I should check out? My general play style I would personally say can vary. For example sometimes with , I'll play aggressive and sometimes I'll play back and be a little defensive. Should I choose a style and stick with it? Thanks for the help!

What are your bad matchups? I'd say you definatly loose to and go even with so I'd suggest befor the ones you loose too and if you struggle with those who go even id say also add . Both are easy to pick up and will cover all the matchups you may struggle with. Also having 3-5 characters is the new meta game quote ZeRo, ESAM, and TKbreezy. The new metagame is counterpick so adding to you're team () and not struggle with match ups.

 

[KniteBlargh]

I'm frankly unconvinced that counter-picking is the new meta. Try not to be too quick to jumping on the bandwagon when we lack steady results. Yes, Anti won the last big to-do, but he's always played a handful of characters at a very high level. Think about some of the people you're referencing here... ZeRo and Esam, while both tremendous players with great results, have not actually gained much recent success from the counter-picking philosophy, have actually struggled more when failing to give their mains proper dedication, and neither of them use the amount of characters in tournament that Anti does, even since saying what they've said. Also, keep in mind the fact that both of them often draw attention to how wrong they've been on certain matters, so their word is not the word of God on this subject, as they plainly state. It should also be mentioned that the two of them have ultimately been getting knocked out of tourneys by players who don't even use the counter-picking method (at least not the same concept as Anti), but instead dedicated mains who may or may not use one secondary and/or one pocket at the very most.

I'm not saying it won't be the meta, but let's wait and see before saying it is and suggesting it to others, because there really isn't enough proof at this point in time.

J Jackguti Personally, I feel like is pretty much even with other top tiers currently, so you shouldn't need a secondary as long as you fully develop your Cloud. If you get tired of playing both him and , remember that it's not a crime to play other characters for fun to give yourself some variety. There are certainly other characters you may enjoy based on the information you provided such as and , to name a couple. As far as whether you should stick to a style or not, I'd say it's best to learn to adapt to the situation at hand. You can play both aggressively and defensively? That's great! Stay that way, but analyze when you should be aggressive and when you should pull back; you'll do great.

 

[bubbyq12]

I've heard a lot about a new counter picking meta (which is good for me because I always felt like this game had too many characters to only use one). Anyway I wanted to know what are the best 2 or 3 character pairings out of my four favorites

 

[Shinzo9999]

Hi there. I'm new to the game ( basically played my first set of matchs today ) and i'm looking for a good character to start with.

I'm coming from an anime fighters background and i mainly play heavy rushdown / crazy mixups / long a** combos characters.

So i'd like to know wich characters fit my style.

I wanted to play bayonetta ( and i still like her ). But from what i've heard shes hard to use especially after the nerf. So i'm playing Corrin for now until i find a character i really like.

One more important note is i only play humanoid characters so please keep that in mind when you propose a character please.

So thanks in advance for your answers and see you on the 3DS.

 

[KniteBlargh]

bubbyq12 To make things simpler, I'll mention groups of twos. Are you asking which pair would give you the highest chances of winning and/or best MU spread? If that's the case, and would seem to be ideal. If you feel you're a bit of a hipster (for lack of a better term) and want to couple a high tier with a lower tier, then I'd probably say either and (I feel like Palutena has less issues with getting camped than Bayonetta), or and (some feel Shulk actually has an even MU against Cloud when optimized thanks to his superior range and multitude of arts that allow him to adapt to the situation, and his sword honestly isn't all that shabby when dealing with Luma either, from what I can tell). Anyway, food for thought if nothing else!

Shinzo9999 It sounds like you had your heart set on Bayonetta? It's true she's one of the more difficult characters to master, but don't rule her out completely just because of that. You may find you'd like to try going back to her once you get a good grasp of fundamentals, which brings me to my two recommendations for you to at least start out with. matches what you've described very well, and he's also great for learning the fundamentals. If you want someone a little more anime, could be what you're looking for. He doesn't necessarily have lengthy true combos, but he can be pretty aggressive, and some of his moves are difficult to avoid when used in quick succession, so you often feel as though you're getting some crazy long combo anyway. Cloud's recovery can be a bit lacking, especially without experience, so getting a feel for his options/mechanics in that regard would be a good place to start before studying up on combos. Hope this helps.

 

[Shinzo9999]

KniteBlargh Thanks a lot man. Could you please link me to some thread / video that talks about recovery. I keep hearing about it but i think i still need some more in-depth explanations about this concept.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Shinzo9999 Sure, though recovery boils down to character-specific traits/abilities, some being easier to pick up than others. Because of this, the best ways to learn about all of a character's recovery options are to check their dedicated board here on the forums (each character has their own board), look up professional player footage of the character in question so you can study how said players go about returning to a stage after getting knocked off, and of course experiment yourself in training mode and such.

However, there are basics to recovery to be learned, so I'll try to help you with that. For some quick beginner-friendly tips on recovery and other useful basics, Prima has a nice little write-up here. Also a small guide from @SuperSwagBros that covers a few extras, like common terms and wall-jumping/clinging (character-specific); I recommend watching the video first. I don't think either of those discuss this, but a personal tip from me is that, if your character has the standard single mid-air jump (some characters like Jigglypuff have more mid-air jumps), you want to try to save that jump for when you absolutely need it while returning to the stage; sometimes you can actually end up killing yourself if you have a tendency to immediately use that second jump after getting knocked far off the side of the stage. Turning tap jump off in controls can help you to make sure you don't waste your second jump when starting out, otherwise, a bit too much upward movement of your control stick can really mess you up.

If you are interested in learning more about Cloud, this is an example of an informational thread you can find on each character's board. I highly recommend watching the videos they've included at the end of the first post if you wind up liking him; very detailed strategies that also explain his recovery options.

Some good Cloud players to look up for real match footage are Tweek, Mew2King and Komorikiri. Ally and Anti are both great Mario players.

Two Youtube channels I'd recommend for both universal and character-specific tips are My Smash Corner and Beefy Smash Doods.

Hope this helps you on your way, and have fun playing and learning!

 

[Shinzo9999]

KniteBlargh Thanks a ton man. I'm gonna use Cloud for now as he's quite strong and will carry me better while i'm learning. I also liked his limit system after trying him so it's all good.

I'll make sure to check the videos and the threads you mentioned.

Thanks again man. Really appreciate it .

 

[gogurtgoat]

I was wondering if is a good pairing because they are the two characters I feel natural with.

 

[DJBor]

Well let's see... without copy, Kirby doesn't have very good projectiles, and Mega Man has a whole bunch of projectiles. They're probably a good match, but they do move at the same mediocre speed so maybe have a fast pocket like to cover up when you're getting outrun. Outside of that, make your own game plan with what you have.

 

[gogurtgoat]

I'll try picking up Pikachu or Diddy to cover the speed thing. I think that will help.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

So I main Lucina and Roy, and leave Palutena as a secondary for characters whose main strategy is zoning? Any other characters that can help cover the weakness of my mains? Preferably not Mario since he isn't a character I know how to play.

 

[DJBor]

Lucina, Roy, and Palutena. LOL.
Lucina is probably your best bet as a main (I just said that), and for kicking up the offense you have Roy, and to fight against projectile play you have Palu.
I... guess that works? If you want a better-fit secondary, you could try to stick with the FE motif and throw out some powerful projectiles.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Lucina, Roy, and Palutena. LOL.
Lucina is probably your best bet as a main (I just said that), and for kicking up the offense you have Roy, and to fight against projectile play you have Palu.
I... guess that works? If you want a better-fit secondary, you could try to stick with the FE motif and throw out some powerful projectiles.

I was previously recommended to switch Palutena for Cloud, but the thing is that my region is littered with Mario, Captain Falcon, Marth and Cloud, only a very handful around try to stand out myself included, and I don't want to be labeled as just "another Cloud player", one even suggested me to just drop Lucina and Roy and just stick with Marth, the thing is, I don't know how to play him, no it wasn't sarcasm, I don't play Lucina with the principle of spacing, but rather a mix of spacing and rushdown, and I really don't want to play proper spacing even if it's more rewarding overall.

 

[Aetheric]

So I was looking for a secondary because I really struggle against . I was thinking about ,,, or. Will any of those four work? If not what would you suggest?

 

[Nu~]

I'm looking for a character based around stealth.

I love to play in a sneaky and dirty manner. Setting up powerful traps, decieving my opponent, being very hard to hit...all my style.

I just love being able to disrupt my opponent's game with clever strategies and traps.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I'm looking for a character based around stealth.

I love to play in a sneaky and dirty manner. Setting up powerful traps, decieving my opponent, being very hard to hit...all my style.

I just love being able to disrupt my opponent's game with clever strategies and traps.

As far as I am concerned, Wario is one of the few characters that meet your criteria, Villager also has some dirty tricks up his sleeve if Ranai is anything to go by.

 

[KniteBlargh]

A Aetheric and are pretty good against and , but can prove a bit more troublesome because of his tipper range, counter, and humongous stun ball, so I'm leaning toward for more of a happy medium. I think he struggles a bit more versus Cloud than the others, but his projectile set-ups and shield help when dealing with a character who has as many speedy ranged options as Corrin has (not to mention the fact that bombs are far safer to move in with against a character with such a strong counter than immediate CQC).

Nu~ So I'm going to start out by saying I believe , and are the best options when it comes to that fun combination of setting up traps and being unpredictable, but there are definitely more characters to choose from. These three have so many possibilities to consider during the course of one match, I think it would be best for you to refer to their respective boards and video footage of Kamemushi (AKA Kameme), Tea, and Ranai to gain a better idea of what each would involve.

gets tricky with mecha koopa, but is also quite heavy on reads and can struggle to find a good moment to put out mecha koopa when being rushed, which is the starter for many of his trap options (his up special can also be a good trap, but has to be used sparingly).
fails in one aspect of what you're looking for... He's big and pretty easy to hit as a result. But I mean if you can be tricky enough with him and such, you can mitigate that concern.

I would list some other options coupled with why I don't feel they're among the top choices fitting your description, but I have to go unexpectedly, so I'll let someone else fill in if need be. Hope this helps, at least.

 

[Shinzo9999]

Can you guys please give me a list of all the rushdown characters in the game ? I wanna try stuff before picking a main but i don't know where to start.

 

[Justinian]

Shinzo9999

A lot of characters in this game can be played however you want. That's the beauty of Smash. However, if you want a rough list of characters that can fill the rushdown job the best: (in no particular order)

True Rushdown








Pressure / Dominating / Offensive Spacing











These are all off the top of my head; there are probably a couple out there I'm forgetting. Keep in mind that a lot of these characters are dynamic; most can also be played with a bait-n-punish style (my personal favorite kind of rushdown) and a few also have the tools to play pretty defensively (Pika, Cloud, Diddy, Sonic, Doc, Fox, and Sheik for instance).

 

[P.Kat]

I main Sonic, but I'm looking for a secondary that covers Sonic's bad MU. I like he's fun to use (but hard to master I'm still not used to his laggy Nair and Fair), but despite his good projectile, I'm still unsure if he covers Sonic's bad MU. Does Greninja do a good job of covering for Sonic and if he doesn't, then who would you guys suggest? I like rushdown characters, and/or characters with a good recovery and offstage game.

 

[Justinian]

I main Sonic, but I'm looking for a secondary that covers Sonic's bad MU. I like he's fun to use (but hard to master I'm still not used to his laggy Nair and Fair), but despite his good projectile, I'm still unsure if he covers Sonic's bad MU. Does Greninja do a good job of covering for Sonic and if he doesn't, then who would you guys suggest? I like rushdown characters, and/or characters with a good recovery and offstage game.

Who do you usually struggle vs the most with Sonic? One of my crewmates is a Sonic main and tells me he has a lot of problems vs my Cloud (and swordsmen in general) and vs Sheik.

 

[P.Kat]

Who do you usually struggle vs the most with Sonic? One of my crewmates is a Sonic main and tells me he has a lot of problems vs my Cloud (and swordsmen in general) and vs Sheik.

Well let me start off by saying I've gotten quite rusty in smash4 as of late so I started playing again. Where I live we don't have tournaments so I've relying on for glory to improve while friending strong, decent players I find online.

But yeah you got it right swordsmen in general, characters with projectiles (Samus, Link), Sheik, and ZSS have been wrecking me.

 

[Justinian]

Diddy dunks on ZSS and many say he beats Sheik as well. He doesn't do you any favors against swordsmen though, and Cloud can beat most of them with his superior range and mobility, but leaves you open to Sheik. Sonic can handle projectile characters most of the time by going in before they can set up camp.

The crewmate I was talking about plays Megaman as a secondary, who can zone out most swordsmen, and beats ZSS in neutral, though idk how he does vs Sheik. You might try that out and see how it goes. Megaman also has the advantage of relatively few people knowing the MU, so that can work in your favor.

- Covers ZSS and Sheik, loses to swords
- Covers swords and ZSS, loses to Sheik
Theoretically covers everything except possibly Sheik? pretty well, gives you the advantage in matchup knowledge

Overall I would probably suggest Megaman, but I'm only one person.

 

[P.Kat]

Diddy dunks on ZSS and many say he beats Sheik as well. He doesn't do you any favors against swordsmen though, and Cloud can beat most of them with his superior range and mobility, but leaves you open to Sheik. Sonic can handle projectile characters most of the time by going in before they can set up camp.

The crewmate I was talking about plays Megaman as a secondary, who can zone out most swordsmen, and beats ZSS in neutral, though idk how he does vs Sheik. You might try that out and see how it goes. Megaman also has the advantage of relatively few people knowing the MU, so that can work in your favor.

- Covers ZSS and Sheik, loses to swords
- Covers swords and ZSS, loses to Sheik
Theoretically covers everything except possibly Sheik? pretty well, gives you the advantage in matchup knowledge

Overall I would probably suggest Megaman, but I'm only one person.

Thanks a lot . Well I don't have Cloud right now but I'll probably get him soon. Another question I had was, I noticed your main was Fox do you think Fox could work as secondary also, and from your experience what's Fox's learning curve like for Smash 4?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So I was looking for a secondary because I really struggle against . I was thinking about ,,, or. Will any of those four work? If not what would you suggest?

Or is your best bet. Maybe .

Shinzo9999 the Rushdown characters are
. Some are all rounders who can easily play Rushdown too.

 

[Justinian]

Thanks a lot . Well I don't have Cloud right now but I'll probably get him soon. Another question I had was, I noticed your main was Fox do you think Fox could work as secondary also, and from your experience what's Fox's learning curve like for Smash 4?

No problem!

I don't personally think Fox would do well as a secondary for Sonic. In my opinion, Fox slightly beats ZSS, loses to Cloud and slightly to Marth, goes even with or slightly beats the other swordsmen, and has a bad time vs Sheik, so he wouldn't work as a great counterpick for any of your hard MUs.

As for his learning curve... it's hard to explain. Fox's general game plan isn't complicated, but it has numerous layers to it, so the character has an incredibly high skill ceiling and benefits a lot from technical play (and from the opponent being human and not a robot). I'd say Fox is a little tough to pick up and play at a low level (I didn't start getting any results at all until like 3 months of solo maining him), but once you start learning some of the advanced stuff he becomes way more technical, since most of his stuff is frame traps and movement.

 

[P.Kat]

No problem!

I don't personally think Fox would do well as a secondary for Sonic. In my opinion, Fox slightly beats ZSS, loses to Cloud and slightly to Marth, goes even with or slightly beats the other swordsmen, and has a bad time vs Sheik, so he wouldn't work as a great counterpick for any of your hard MUs.

As for his learning curve... it's hard to explain. Fox's general game plan isn't complicated, but it has numerous layers to it, so the character has an incredibly high skill ceiling and benefits a lot from technical play (and from the opponent being human and not a robot). I'd say Fox is a little tough to pick up and play at a low level (I didn't start getting any results at all until like 3 months of solo maining him), but once you start learning some of the advanced stuff he becomes way more technical, since most of his stuff is frame traps and movement.

Cool thanks he was my first main ever and still one of my favorite characters, so I usually get the urge to choose him too from time to time. If I ever get a chance to I'll pick Cloud.

 

[CurlyFries]

I'm looking for a character based around stealth.

I love to play in a sneaky and dirty manner. Setting up powerful traps, decieving my opponent, being very hard to hit...all my style.

I just love being able to disrupt my opponent's game with clever strategies and traps.

I'd say Duck Hunt is good option for you,The Can is a perfect tool for setting up an array of crazy traps and the Gunman and Clay Pigeon make it almost impossible to get in(with proper use.) Duck Hunt has trouble with characters who CAN get in due to only frame rates on tilts,so i would suggest maybe have a pocket Sheik or Fox would be useful.Duck Hunts recovery is also quite bad so learning to tech is valuable.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm looking for a character based around stealth.

I love to play in a sneaky and dirty manner. Setting up powerful traps, decieving my opponent, being very hard to hit...all my style.

I just love being able to disrupt my opponent's game with clever strategies and traps.

Is the stealthiest character. Can set up traps with can and mecha coopa. Sets up Luma traps. Has hydrant traps. Is very dissruptive and have neat strategies. Has gyro traps on the ledge and has banana traps. Has bomb traps too. That's all I can think of. I'd say is s great team or or is an AMAZING team. Or . Use 2 out of unless you prefer one of the others more.

 

[Lamuh]

Ike is probably what would be considered my main. Unfortunately I struggle *strongly* against characters w/ projectiles/charges that can camp and basically force me to approach. 1. How do I deal with that? 2. What characters are very strong against campers?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Ike is probably what would be considered my main. Unfortunately I struggle *strongly* against characters w/ projectiles/charges that can camp and basically force me to approach. 1. How do I deal with that? 2. What characters are very strong against campers?

Well the best at dealing with projectiles/ zone breaking are. And I know for a fact Ike looses badly to cloud so if suggest using do help deal with him, or pick him up and ditto.
I'm so distraught. I love him to death thanks to wind waker, but has met the same fate as my old . I can't use him anymore. He's not clicking with me, and not getting and wins with him, and it's time to say goodbye. So now my are missing a third which I would really like to have. I want to cover all bad matchups. As well as get some range since Roy and Pika are close ranged. I have .
I'll still consider but only if he's one of if not the best choice for me.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Well the best at dealing with projectiles/ zone breaking are. And I know for a fact Ike looses badly to cloud so if suggest using do help deal with him, or pick him up and ditto.

I'm so distraught. I love him to death thanks to wind waker, but has met the same fate as my old . I can't use him anymore. He's not clicking with me, and not getting and wins with him, and it's time to say goodbye. So now my are missing a third which I would really like to have. I want to cover all bad matchups. As well as get some range since Roy and Pika are close ranged. I have

A player around uses to cover his Pikachu lack of range against certain characters and it works really well. Could you give me some advice regarding if I should drop Palutena for Cloud? I use her to cover my mains weaknesses: Zoning and projectiles, but some have suggested me to drop her for Cloud.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

A player around uses to cover his Pikachu lack of range against certain characters and it works really well. Could you give me some advice regarding if I should drop Palutena for Cloud? I use her to cover my mains weaknesses: Zoning and projectiles, but some have suggested me to drop her for Cloud.

Cloud is definatly better, but if you like both then use both

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Cloud is definatly better, but if you like both then use both

Thanks. This definitely makes it easier to come to grips with, especially after seeing Prince Ramen vs ZeRo. Sorry if I came as annoying with my questions.

 

[TheLegendOfLaser]

Hi, I've been playing SSB4 for a while now and I've finally settled on using Marth as my main. So I was wondering, who would make a good secondary to for Marth? Thanks in advance.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

art of Silence101 you werent annoying at all. If anyone is annoying its me and my dang poor disicion making skills. TheLegendOfLaser Marth is very solo mainable if you look at mr. e (who recently beat zero at evo) and pugwest (Pajama mn family member with marss). but having a secondary will help for sure. To my knowledge the matchups that marths have said they strongly dislike are for sure aswell as being tough but manage able, 45:55 or even 50:50. So if you dont struggle with the 5 then is a great choice since he plays great upclose and beats and can handle the others. but if you do struggle with the 5 then id say are all good choices. also is a good team since one is defensive and one is aggresive and one excells at a rang and the other up close and the are fairly similar. Since you play math you likely play defensive so going with would be ideal since they can play defensively. Even just going with is a good idea since Lucin can contest with close combat fights.[/USER]