Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[darktrickster101]

So @darktrickster You're trying to tell me that sheik has an even matchup with sheik? Ever heard of fair shield pushback? Sheik can **** all over luigi with needles and fair.

I said pretty even meaning around 45-55 or 40-60. well lets put it this way he has an easier time than a lot of the cast.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

I said pretty even meaning around 45-55 or 40-60. well lets put it this way he has an easier time than a lot of the cast.

Actually Luigi is destroyed against Sheik. Mario has one of the best MU's against Sheik tho

 

[Spark31]

Actually Luigi is destroyed against Sheik. Mario has one of the best MU's against Sheik tho

Eh. Mario's OK. He doesn't have issues against Sheik that make him unbelievably terrible. Luigi does have a crap MU tho. Imo the best Sheik matchups are rosa and lucario.

 

[darktrickster101]

I'd add pikachu to that list but yeah rosa has the best matchup IMO. maybe the luigi's i've seen play against sheik are just really good players.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Eh. Mario's OK. He doesn't have issues against Sheik that make him unbelievably terrible. Luigi does have a crap MU tho. Imo the best Sheik matchups are rosa and lucario.

Yeah I don't think Mario is op against sheik but still. And yeah Lucario definitely. I had been playing Lucario for a while but I just couldn't do b reverses very well with him so he's just a pocket main now

 

[Untamed]

So I've had smash 4 for a little while now, but still can't settle on a main, and I don't know why. I went from Diddy to fox, to peach, and now to yoshi. Unfortunately, I don't feel like Yoshi is going to be my main either. I can't seem to find the character that clicks with me. Should I just stick with Yoshi and keep practicing? I don't know..

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

So I've had smash 4 for a little while now, but still can't settle on a main, and I don't know why. I went from Diddy to fox, to peach, and now to yoshi. Unfortunately, I don't feel like Yoshi is going to be my main either. I can't seem to find the character that clicks with me. Should I just stick with Yoshi and keep practicing? I don't know..

I think you should, unless you don't enjoy him. It's okay to keep switching. Yoshi is really good after all and I feel like there aren't enough people playing as him at top level. Or any level. Bbut you could also main Yoshi, Peach, Diddy and Fox if you still like all of them. I have four big mains myself and its not that big of a problem.

 

[OllyD]

Hey everyone! I have had an issue having a main in smash for quite some time. I just can't seem to settle on one whatsoever. Currently I'm using Samus and Lucas and they are pretty fun. But I feel like something could be missing... some things I like in a character:

- My favourite game series is Pokemon
- I like s unique playing character that generally has a projectile
- I like to stay away from the highest of "top tiers" but high-mid and lower are fine
- once I get the advantage in a match I generally tend to let up a bit and it can cost me the match, so something that compliments that
- a solid character that can have tricks up their sleeves
- a character with personality

Thank!

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Hey everyone! I have had an issue having a main in smash for quite some time. I just can't seem to settle on one whatsoever. Currently I'm using Samus and Lucas and they are pretty fun. But I feel like something could be missing... some things I like in a character:

- My favourite game series is Pokemon
- I like s unique playing character that generally has a projectile
- I like to stay away from the highest of "top tiers" but high-mid and lower are fine
- once I get the advantage in a match I generally tend to let up a bit and it can cost me the match, so something that compliments that
- a solid character that can have tricks up their sleeves
- a character with personality

Thank!

Well the two that immediately came to mind are King D3 and Charizard. They are both pretty good at holding leads cause of their weight. Charizard is from Pokemon and with recent buffs seems likes he is way more viable than before. King D3 on the other hand seems like he has much more personality than Charizard in my opinion. I'm not too sure how unique their playstyles are, but they bother have a decent projectile, Charizard's is much less ranged, but King D3's can be hit back at him. Either way I think they are both decent choices. Not that you have to pick either of them just a thought.

 

[Benmjy]

Hey guys! So I've had this problem for a while, I honestly can't figure out who I want to main. For the longest time I've been maining . I love love love her character and she's really fun to play as but I just don't think I have the skills yet to bring out her fullest potential. Plus the fact I'm not interesting in using her customs is another thing holding me back from playing her well. Anyway, I want to look for a replacement, at least until I can utilize Palutena better. So far I've been doing well with , I really like a lot about him but I may need to learn him a bit more. I was doing really well with and tbh Lucas is just more of a preference for me because I love Mother 3. Anyway, I'm not too sure what I want from a character mostly because I only started getting serious with Smash a few months ago and no character has really clicked with me yet. I prefer to stay away from high tier characters because of this weird thing I have where if I use a strong character I feel like I'm not actually skilled it's just the character's sheer power (odd, but I do this for a lot of games). I'm sorry I can't provide more info just because I'm not too sure what I would want but I hope someone could help me out!

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Hey guys! So I've had this problem for a while, I honestly can't figure out who I want to main. For the longest time I've been maining . I love love love her character and she's really fun to play as but I just don't think I have the skills yet to bring out her fullest potential. Plus the fact I'm not interesting in using her customs is another thing holding me back from playing her well. Anyway, I want to look for a replacement, at least until I can utilize Palutena better. So far I've been doing well with , I really like a lot about him but I may need to learn him a bit more. I was doing really well with and tbh Lucas is just more of a preference for me because I love Mother 3. Anyway, I'm not too sure what I want from a character mostly because I only started getting serious with Smash a few months ago and no character has really clicked with me yet. I prefer to stay away from high tier characters because of this weird thing I have where if I use a strong character I feel like I'm not actually skilled it's just the character's sheer power (odd, but I do this for a lot of games). I'm sorry I can't provide more info just because I'm not too sure what I would want but I hope someone could help me out!

Lucas is a good choice, if you like him you should stay with him. Some of the more "honest" characters in the game that I know of (characters that are good because the person playing them understands the game, not because the character is easy to succeed with) are maybe and definitely others but I don't know who specifically. are pretty in between characters in my option as well. Basically most characters that reward you having the fundamentals, not having the best character. I get what you mean somewhat I play Doc instead of Mario and that's about 1/5 of my reasoning for it. I'm not too sure what playstyles you prefer but here are some basic ideas.

 

[Benmjy]

Lucas is a good choice, if you like him you should stay with him. Some of the more "honest" characters in the game that I know of (characters that are good because the person playing them understands the game, not because the character is easy to succeed with) are maybe and definitely others but I don't know who specifically. are pretty in between characters in my option as well. Basically most characters that reward you having the fundamentals, not having the best character. I get what you mean somewhat I play Doc instead of Mario and that's about 1/5 of my reasoning for it. I'm not too sure what playstyles you prefer but here are some basic ideas.

Thank you so much for the response! I'm glad you get what I said about "honest" characters. and are definitely two I want to experiment because I love Kid Icarus. Is there any real difference between the two I should consider? Also I've been thinking about it a little bit, so I think I would like a character that is good at setting up combos, for me I always have difficulty setting up more advanced combos I guess. Also I would prefer to be more offensive than defensive. Hopefully that helps narrow it down more!

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Thank you so much for the response! I'm glad you get what I said about "honest" characters. and are definitely two I want to experiment because I love Kid Icarus. Is there any real difference between the two I should consider? Also I've been thinking about it a little bit, so I think I would like a character that is good at setting up combos, for me I always have difficulty setting up more advanced combos I guess. Also I would prefer to be more offensive than defensive. Hopefully that helps narrow it down more!

and have some small differences but in my opinion if you main one, the only thing stopping you from playing the other well is your preference. So take your pick (I feel as though Pit's arrows are better for gimping down below stages tho, so keep that in mind).

I think both Pit and Dark Pit can play offensively and defensively, but I havent played as them in a while so I don't know that for sure. Their combos are pretty simple I'd say, but it doesn't seem like they have many from when I used to play as them. That shouldn't be a big problem though considering you aren't looking for extremely advanced combos. Doc has good combo game that isn't complicated too, but he's more on the defensive side of things. Same with Falco. But from what you've said I think Pit/Dark pit would be best suited. As long as they click well with you, of course.

Oh, and you're welcome.

 

[_noname]

So after trying out almost all characters, it seems like I like characters that hit hard like ganondorf. The only thing is that almost all his aerials have too much landing lag. Falcon seemed like a good option but his damage output isn't enough, for me atleast.

Aren't there any characters besides falcon who act almost the same as melee ganondorf?

 

[Fatmanonice]

So after trying out almost all characters, it seems like I like characters that hit hard like ganondorf. The only thing is that almost all his aerials have too much landing lag. Falcon seemed like a good option but his damage output isn't enough, for me atleast.

Aren't there any characters besides falcon who act almost the same as melee ganondorf?

Er... well... the closest people with quick, hard hitting aerials without a ton of landing lag that aren't are...



Of these, are the closest to what you seem to want.

 

[-crump-]

Hey, guys. I was wondering how many mains are considered "too many".

Right now, I main and. I enjoy using them all, but is doing that too much? Should I focus on just one or two?

 

[C0rvus]

Hey, guys. I was wondering how many mains are considered "too many".

Right now, I main and. I enjoy using them all, but is doing that too much? Should I focus on just one or two?

It all really depends on how serious you want to get and how much time you are willing to dedicate to the game. If you go to tournament and can use all of them well, that's sweet. But don't spread yourself thin. Consider who you may want to use against all the characters, or at least the top tiers. You may find that you never get a chance to use one or two of your mains, or they only come out for 1 or 2 MUs. They may not be worth your time in that case.

Ideally, 1-3 characters is where I would draw the line if you want to play in tournament and get results worth talking about. Even then, playing 3 characters can keep you from improving as rapidly as solo mains around you. I mean, look at Nakat. He's a top level player, but he's been playing 4 characters competitively () and it's been hurting his results lately. But he also proves it can be done. He's top 5 in Tristate if I'm not mistaken.

If you're just playing FG or with friends in a semi-competitive environment, play as many character as you want. Go nuts. It's really mostly up to personal preference.

 

[_noname]

Er... well... the closest people with quick, hard hitting aerials without a ton of landing lag that aren't are...



Of these, are the closest to what you seem to want.

Thanks man. Will try them all out : )

 

[-crump-]

It all really depends on how serious you want to get and how much time you are willing to dedicate to the game. If you go to tournament and can use all of them well, that's sweet. But don't spread yourself thin. Consider who you may want to use against all the characters, or at least the top tiers. You may find that you never get a chance to use one or two of your mains, or they only come out for 1 or 2 MUs. They may not be worth your time in that case.

Ideally, 1-3 characters is where I would draw the line if you want to play in tournament and get results worth talking about. Even then, playing 3 characters can keep you from improving as rapidly as solo mains around you. I mean, look at Nakat. He's a top level player, but he's been playing 4 characters competitively () and it's been hurting his results lately. But he also proves it can be done. He's top 5 in Tristate if I'm not mistaken.

If you're just playing FG or with friends in a semi-competitive environment, play as many character as you want. Go nuts. It's really mostly up to personal preference.

Alright, thanks. I'm not a tourney player, I just play on a semi-competitive level.

 

[PK Drako]

Hi im new here and i just dont know what main i should pick...
I played some characters that some friends recomended me but i dont like the playstyle of the character.

i also tried some of my favorites are .

The playstyle i like the most is the agressive playstyle.

I hope some can help me choosing my main beacuse i have the game since it was released and i still dont know who i should play.

Thanks people

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Hi im new here and i just dont know what main i should pick...
I played some characters that some friends recomended me but i dont like the playstyle of the character.

i also tried some of my favorites are .

The playstyle i like the most is the agressive playstyle.

I hope some can help me choosing my main beacuse i have the game since it was released and i still dont know who i should play.

Thanks people

Pikachu and Gekkouga (that's Greninja but Gekkouga is more fun to say) are decently aggressive characters I'd say, and Roy may kinda be too. If you're looking for aggressive that's the way to go I think. Not discounting the other guys tho cause I think they're all really great characters.

 

[PK Drako]

Pikachu and Gekkouga (that's Greninja but Gekkouga is more fun to say) are decently aggressive characters I'd say, and Roy may kinda be too. If you're looking for aggressive that's the way to go I think. Not discounting the other guys tho cause I think they're all really great characters.

Thanks man i will try but i think greninja is maybe to hard to combo with him.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Thanks man i will try but i think greninja is maybe to hard to combo with him.

Understandable. He's pretty difficult at the start but it becomes simpler after a little while of playing him.

 

[PK Drako]

Understandable. He's pretty difficult at the start but it becomes simpler after a little while of playing him.

Ok Thanks Bro

Edit: Any of the characters you told me are working for me any other advices?

 

[LozNerd]

Hi, so I mained Link for most of my Sm4sh time. After a while though I decided to try out Sheik. She is pretty awesome with all her combos but I also love Link's projectiles. When DLC came out I bought Roy and started toying with Ness. I am probably best with Roy, then Link, then Sheik, then Ness. But, I have only tip my toes into Ness's moveset and I really like him. I defenitely am planning on going to some tourneys soon though so I want whichever character I can excel at. So to recap two questions.
Who should I main? I ran Lucas in SSBB, is he worth it to buy over Ness?

Thanks!

 

[darktrickster101]

Hi, so I mained Link for most of my Sm4sh time. After a while though I decided to try out Sheik. She is pretty awesome with all her combos but I also love Link's projectiles. When DLC came out I bought Roy and started toying with Ness. I am probably best with Roy, then Link, then Sheik, then Ness. But, I have only tip my toes into Ness's moveset and I really like him. I defenitely am planning on going to some tourneys soon though so I want whichever character I can excel at. So to recap two questions.
Who should I main? I ran Lucas in SSBB, is he worth it to buy over Ness?

Thanks!

My advice to you would be either main roy (because you say he is you best) or shiek (probably the best time investment as far as mains go) and make the one you didn't choose as your secondary. I also think you should pocket ness or lucas for a little while just to see how you do. If you then find that you are excelling with ness or lucas maybe then re-evaluate how you are doing with each character and whether your ness or lucas is better than your roy or sheik then choose your main and secondary accordingly. Now by all means you can also play Link. However I would not main or secondary him due to the fact that he is not as good a choice as your other options. But more practice with shiek should prove invaluable in this meta. Hope this helps.

 

[Sp0nge]

Ok Thanks Bro

Edit: Any of the characters you told me are working for me any other advices?

If you like aggressive characters and combos, then out of those Pikachu is definitely the one that fits the bill. Just make sure you get comfortable with throws. Fox is another character who is known for being probably the most aggressive character in the game. Just keep in mind that "aggressive" doesn't necessarily mean you can always go in and rush your opponent down. You still have to play smart, aggressive in this game basically means that those characters always look for how they can make the most out of their moves and apply pressure when they can't pull off a combo.

Hi, so I mained Link for most of my Sm4sh time. After a while though I decided to try out Sheik. She is pretty awesome with all her combos but I also love Link's projectiles. When DLC came out I bought Roy and started toying with Ness. I am probably best with Roy, then Link, then Sheik, then Ness. But, I have only tip my toes into Ness's moveset and I really like him. I defenitely am planning on going to some tourneys soon though so I want whichever character I can excel at. So to recap two questions.
Who should I main? I ran Lucas in SSBB, is he worth it to buy over Ness?

Thanks!

Lucas is a completely different character than Ness, even though they're from the same series and have similar moves. The main difference is their grab, Lucas has a tether grab so he can't throw out grab as often. I would focus on the characters you already have.

Link recently got better, so maybe you want to try him out and see if you like him any better.

Sheik is the best character in the game, and a good amount of people play her. At a tournament, you won't be the only one playng her, and you won't be the best. This might be a bit discouraging if you actually care about that. Just because Sheik is amazing doesn't make her easy to play either. Think about this: She's the best character in the game yet you have better results with characters that are significantly worse than her. Either this means you're just not that involved with Sheik or you're just not comfortable with her.

Interesting how you like Link's projectiles but prefer Roy. Plus you've had less time with him because he recently came out. Maybe you're overestimating your ability with him, or he just fits your playstyle.

Ness is one of the most simple and straightforward characters in the game, but a lot of good people will know how to beat out your PK thunder, which can be a little frustrating.

With that said, my conclusion is that you should definitely strike out Sheik and Ness. Ness is really easy to pick up but I would still give it more time before you jump in with him. I would first try out Link to see if you want to play him more, and if you do then just stick with him. Otherwise, go with Roy. For the most part, they play sort of similarly. They both don't have kill throws but they have setups off of their down throw, they kill really early with smashes, and they don't have an amazing air game.


Anyone want to help a bro out? I main Bowser but I was told that having a secondary to cover his bad matchups would be very beneficial. If you don't already know, his bad matchups are mostly characters that have a very solid air game, to where they can just juggle him in the air. Primary examples include Sheik (even though everyone is bad against her) and Luigi. What are some characters that can handle these matchups?

 

[Nexin]

@ Sp0nge

You might do well to learn either Rosalina & Luma or Ryu.

While I'm not sure if this is still the general opinion nowadays, I know that a while back that most people agreed that Rosalina & Luma had an advantageous matchup against Sheik. If that isn't the case now, the matchup is still likely very close, so it can't be that bad. I also know that her ability to wall out other characters really gives Luigi issues, so she wins that matchup easily. I don't know much about Rosalina & Luma, so I apologize for not being able to go into much detail about her.

I play Ryu more often, so I can go into more detail about him. Ryu does pretty well against Luigi since he lacks a way to get in and force Ryu to give up spacing. Ryu's playstyle is so heavily focused on stage control that if a character lacks the ability to force him to give up space, they generally lose to him. As for Sheik, Ryu is at a slight disadvantage in this matchup, but he still has a good number of tools that allow him to remain a threat, such as his kill power and combo potential. The main issues Ryu has in this matchup, however, are Sheik's frames data, speed, and the possibility of needle camping, so you still need to be in top of your game to win.

There are most likely many more characters who are better candidates than them, but these were the first two that came to mind. They both have decent learning curves, but I still feel that it to learn them.

 

[Sp0nge]

@ Sp0nge

You might do well to learn either Rosalina & Luma or Ryu.

While I'm not sure if this is still the general opinion nowadays, I know that a while back that most people agreed that Rosalina & Luma had an advantageous matchup against Sheik. If that isn't the case now, the matchup is still likely very close, so it can't be that bad. I also know that her ability to wall out other characters really gives Luigi issues, so she wins that matchup easily. I don't know much about Rosalina & Luma, so I apologize for not being able to go into much detail about her.

I play Ryu more often, so I can go into more detail about him. Ryu does pretty well against Luigi since he lacks a way to get in and force Ryu to give up spacing. Ryu's playstyle is so heavily focused on stage control that if a character lacks the ability to force him to give up space, they generally lose to him. As for Sheik, Ryu is at a slight disadvantage in this matchup, but he still has a good number of tools that allow him to remain a threat, such as his kill power and combo potential. The main issues Ryu has in this matchup, however, are Sheik's frames data, speed, and the possibility of needle camping, so you still need to be in top of your game to win.

There are most likely many more characters who are better candidates than them, but these were the first two that came to mind. They both have decent learning curves, but I still feel that it to learn them.

I have a lot of experience with Rosaluma from my early days, but I dropped her because I was afraid she would get nerfed soon. I'll have to give Ryu a shot, as I've only played him about 3 times lol. I'm really not too worried about Sheik because I know I'll lose to any Sheik as long as they're a player as good or better than me, because she's just that good. I was just using her to relate her to other characters that rely heavily on fast combos and keeping the opponent in the air for kills and whatnot. Thanks for the help ^^

 

[Kaladin]

I've been playing smash 4 on a semi competative level (Anther's more seriously, seeing what stupid crap I can do in For Glory) for the better part of a year, and I still cannot decide on a main. I care most about good mobility, good grab game, combos, and a good neutral (a projectile is nice too). I would play Greninja, but he doesn't actually have a neutral game. He has running around like an idiot trying to confuse them, because that's the only way you're going to force an opening.

I don't have the time nor dedecation to play a super technical/hard to use character, but a high learning curve is fine.

So... Please help meeeeeeeeeee lol. No character has really clicked yet, and I'd like to change that.

P.S. I'm thinking about Lucas as well, but I don't know a lot about the character. Could someone give me a rundown of what he does?

 

[C0rvus]

I've been playing smash 4 on a semi competative level (Anther's more seriously, seeing what stupid crap I can do in For Glory) for the better part of a year, and I still cannot decide on a main. I care most about good mobility, good grab game, combos, and a good neutral (a projectile is nice too). I would play Greninja, but he doesn't actually have a neutral game. He has running around like an idiot trying to confuse them, because that's the only way you're going to force an opening.

I don't have the time nor dedecation to play a super technical/hard to use character, but a high learning curve is fine.

So... Please help meeeeeeeeeee lol. No character has really clicked yet, and I'd like to change that.

P.S. I'm thinking about Lucas as well, but I don't know a lot about the character. Could someone give me a rundown of what he does?

Greninja does have tools for neutral. His amazing mobility is one thing, he also has a projectile. It isn't mindlessly good like fireballs, but it's something to force approaches in a number of matchups. You can also space forward tilts and forward airs safely on shields. He also has a good dash grab. I agree with the fact that he is very difficult to succeed with, though. Nothing is easy for Greninja.

I don't know enough about Lucas to comment, but I know he uses Zair and PK Fire to space and his reward for getting grabs is pretty good. His grab is buns, though.

 

[TombstoneHD]

Hey guys, I just wanted to get an opinion on some character choices. I'm pretty confident in maining Wario, but I've had trouble figuring out side mains or secondaries to complement him.

At the moment, I also enjoy playing as King Dedede, Meta Knight, Bowser, Ness, Lucas, Bowser Jr., Ike, and R.O.B. I've also heard that Mario and Pit are great characters in general to secondary.

Thanks in advance for the help. I've been commenting on similar threads on the Wario boards, but I would also like the opinions of non-Wario mains/mains of the other characters I like to use.

 

[LightheartedBum]

Just stumbled upon this thread. What a pleasant surprise, this is great. ^~^

 

[Dumpabump]

Hey guys. I main King Dedede but I'm looking for a secondary.

I'm trying to decide between Link and Pikachu. I grew up on Legend of Zelda, so Link is naturally my favorite video game character of all time. I've always wanted to play him, but with all of his projectiles and such, he kinda intimidates me. Pikachu, on the other hand, is one of my favorite pokemon. He seems a bit easier to understand and less technical.

I'm just not sure who my secondary should be. Do I suck it up and try to learn the technicalities of Link? Or do I stick with trying to learn an easier character?

 

[Nexin]

Hey guys, I just wanted to get an opinion on some character choices. I'm pretty confident in maining Wario, but I've had trouble figuring out side mains or secondaries to complement him.

At the moment, I also enjoy playing as King Dedede, Meta Knight, Bowser, Ness, Lucas, Bowser Jr., Ike, and R.O.B. I've also heard that Mario and Pit are great characters in general to secondary.

Thanks in advance for the help. I've been commenting on similar threads on the Wario boards, but I would also like the opinions of non-Wario mains/mains of the other characters I like to use.

I know Wario is a very air heavy character that rewards players who are patient, but I don't know what characters Wario tends to struggle with. If you could let me know what his bad matchups are, I could give you a good idea about what characters you might want to play.

As for Mario and Pit, what makes them good secondaries is the fact that they are both extremely well rounded characters. They don't have any extreme weaknesses that their opponents are able to exploit, but at the same time, they don't have any major strengths that they can fall back on should their opponent gain the advantage. To win with either of them, your fundamentals have to be solid, and as your fundamentals improve, so will your main.

 

[Yσנιмιтѕυ]

I'm in search of some secondaries/counter pick characters. I main MetaKnight because he's so much fun. Overall he's great - fast, multiple jumps, best/most varied recovery, reliable kill options - but he's very weak against certain campy playstyles, and he's rather weak in doubles as he's super light and his specials are VERY punishable. I try to be extra safe but I still end up losing stocks at 60% in dubz most of the time.

SO

I'm looking for a projectile heavy zoning character as a counter-pick to rushdown opponents.

What I need:
-Very safe zoning options
-1 or 2 "get off me!" moves
-1 good OOS option
-Decent survivability
-Traps?

Any suggestions? Disclaimer: I hate ROB.

P.S. One of my really good friends and often my dubz partner plays G&W or Villager and we love to play around with bucket/pocket jank for some HYPE 0% kills.

 

[Nexin]

@ Yσנιмιтѕυ

It sounds like you may want to play Pac-Man. I don't know way too much about him so you will have to check out his character forum for advice on how he generally plays, but I know he has most, if not all, of what you are looking for.

 

[TombstoneHD]

I know Wario is a very air heavy character that rewards players who are patient, but I don't know what characters Wario tends to struggle with. If you could let me know what his bad matchups are, I could give you a good idea about what characters you might want to play.

As for Mario and Pit, what makes them good secondaries is the fact that they are both extremely well rounded characters. They don't have any extreme weaknesses that their opponents are able to exploit, but at the same time, they don't have any major strengths that they can fall back on should their opponent gain the advantage. To win with either of them, your fundamentals have to be solid, and as your fundamentals improve, so will your main.

As far as I'm concerned, Wario doesn't like match ups against characters with more range and hit harder than him, like Ike, DK, and Bowser. I also know he doesn't like the Sheik match up (who does lol) and the Villager match up worries me on paper.

 

[Fatmanonice]

SO

I'm looking for a projectile heavy zoning character as a counter-pick to rushdown opponents.

What I need:
-Very safe zoning options
-1 or 2 "get off me!" moves
-1 good OOS option
-Decent survivability
-Traps?

Any suggestions? D

are your best bets.
-Zoning: Both can keep people away fairly easily ( because of all the pikmin and because of fair/bair/Lloid). Both also have lots of options to quickly knock opponents away so they can go back to their campy shenanigans. Both definitely thrive on stage control.

-Get off me moves: has his jab, dtilt, utilt, and a reliable grab. has his jab and short hopped nairs.

-Out of shield options: , once again, has a very reliable shield grab and his smash attacks are good OOS options too. has his jab, ftilt, and dtilt.

-Survivability: both are about average weight and have some of the best recovery moves in the game. Both are very difficult to gimp and both can come back from ridiculous distances.

-Traps: is about controlling where your opponent goes with your Pikmin, potentially leading them straight into smash attacks, aerials, and grabs. is the best trap character in the game in my opinion (although isn't too far off) but the downside is that they aren't easy to set up. The payoff though is that the tree, grabs to bthrow, and dsmash very likely to lead to KOs at the right percentage. To get them to work, you'll have to outsmart your opponent and this will be much harder to pull off against a better opponent.

 

[TriforceOfAura]

I'm in search of some secondaries/counter pick characters. I main MetaKnight because he's so much fun. Overall he's great - fast, multiple jumps, best/most varied recovery, reliable kill options - but he's very weak against certain campy playstyles, and he's rather weak in doubles as he's super light and his specials are VERY punishable. I try to be extra safe but I still end up losing stocks at 60% in dubz most of the time.

SO

I'm looking for a projectile heavy zoning character as a counter-pick to rushdown opponents.

What I need:
-Very safe zoning options
-1 or 2 "get off me!" moves
-1 good OOS option
-Decent survivability
-Traps?

Any suggestions? Disclaimer: I hate ROB.

P.S. One of my really good friends and often my dubz partner plays G&W or Villager and we love to play around with bucket/pocket jank for some HYPE 0% kills.

Hmm... This threw me for a bit of a loop. After a few minutes of heavy thought here's who I came up with. I main ,,, and , but none of those really fit the bill for what you're looking for. I would say , as he fits all the other requirements except for surivability, as his diagonal recovery is utterly pitiful. Here's a thought. could work. He has zoning options with the ludicrous reach of his sword, quite a few of his moves come out fast, good for "get off me", he has overall good recovery, and as for traps, well, he has the best counter in the game. I recommend Shulk, but you could give Ike a try too.