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The Lycia Alliance: Roy Legacy Support Thread

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ChronoBound

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I have meaning to say what I am about to post very a very long time. I originally wanted to say this prior to FE13's North American release, but now that it has came and went not only for North America, but for Europe as well, and with E3 only about three weeks away, there is more pressing things to say about the battles and challenges that lie ahead for us Roy supporters.

Part 1: After FE13's release....

Originally when FE13 was released, I believed that there would be a massive surge of Chrom supporters based on the accolades and hype FE13 was getting. However, as fate would have it, many of the people who loved and experienced FE13 ended up taking a liking to other characters in that game aside from Chrom. Chrom is still much more expected than he is wanted among Smash Bros. fans. However, although Chrom did not benefit as much from the international FE13 release as I thought he would, there still has been an explosion of interest for some sort of FE13 character.

Support threads for Anna, Lucina, My Unit, and Tharja popped up, and these character seemed to have more passionate supporters than Chrom's does, even though Chrom still has more supporters overall than any of those other FE13 characters.

Particularly with Lucina, we have actually dodged a major bullet. Typically, female character fanbases in Smash Bros. tend be quiet fanatical, loud, and aggressive. FE13 was a title that was well-received both critically and in sales. Lucina, unlike every other female lord (except possibly Cellica from the virtually unknown FE2), outshined her male lord co-star as both a unit (the female lords are usually much weaker than the male lord they have to share the game with) and as a character. Yet, how come Lucina is not a heir to the throne to a fanbase on par with what Lyn and Micaiah saw during pre-Brawl (and the first two years of pre-Smash 4 with Micaiah?).

Lucina had all the stars aligned for her. She was not outshined by a Hector/Ephraim/Ike as an unit/character. Her game did not get a mixed reception by fans and critics like FE8 (Eirika) or FE10 (Micaiah did). And for many, FE13 was their first game in the series. Yet why is Lucina in Chrom's shadow among Smash Bros. fans?

Up until FE13, there has been four female lords in the series, Cellica, Lyn, Eirika, and Micaiah. Typically, female lords (exception may be Micaiah) are usually far less good as units than the male lords of their games. Also, half of all the female lords in the series up until FE13, used a primary weapon that was not a sword (both Cellica and Micaiah are mage lords). There was literally a 50/50 chance that the female lord we could have gotten in FE13 would have been someone whose primary weapon was not a sword. And also, of the two female sword-wielding lords we did receive up until Lucina (Lyn and Eirika) they visually contrasted with any other male sword-wielding lords.

Literally, the biggest handicap Lucina had from being the next Lyn/Micaiah was that for every possible for her to copy their appearance, she happened to be a female Marth. Marth, whom is probably the only FE character that is 100% safe to return for Smash 4. To make things even particularly worse for Lucina to gain ground among Smash Bros. fans was that Marth himself was given a re-design for FE13 that made him almost exactly the same outfit as Lucina does in FE13. This re-design for Marth was not only done by a series veteran (the art/character designer for FE9/FE10), but also happened to be most popular and well-known re-design due to it not only being the first DLC character made available, but also the only one made available for free.

Could you imagine what we would have to face if Lucina had been a non-primary-sword-wielding lord (or really even a sword-wielding lord that did not look like a genderswap version of Marth) with the benefits of a highly acclaimed source game and being extremely strong as an unit? As it currently stands, Lucina is probably the most popular female lord among FE fans. Her being a genderswap version of Marth (to the point where she spent almost half of the main game calling herself Marth) is basically what is keeping her from eclipsing Chrom in requests among Smash Bros. fans. She may end up eclipsing Chrom in requests at some point, but in terms of convincing people who have not played FE13 that she would be a stand out addition in comparison to Marth and Ike, she faces greater challenges than even Chrom.

Aside from Lucina, Anna has emerged as a possible choice for a newcomer for Smash 4. Amongst Western FE13, Anna is certainly very popular (she received nearly the same amount of votes as Chrom did in the North American FE13 poll done by NOA). However, although she may have more passionate supporters than either Chrom or Lucina, and although there is a much better case for her to be a better standout character than Chrom/Lucina, overall she has less support among Smash Bros. fans than the two FE13 lords. However, unlike Chrom/Lucina/MyUnit/Tharja, Anna is likely to continue to have a fanbase even if she fails to make it for Smash 4 due to her very likely having future appearances in FE game and probably future playable appearances. Anna's time could very well be with Smash 5. However, for now she lurks under the shadow of Chrom/Lucina.

My Unit is the third main character of FE13 and unlike Chrom/Lucina, is easily visually distinctive from other FE lords even in his/her "default" design, and uses magic as a primary weapon just as much as he/she uses swords. However, despite all of this, My Unit has less support than even Anna. My Unit is hurt by not having a defined name, gender, or even an appearance. Most people customized their My Units, and have different personal experiences and envisionments about what My Unit is supposed to look like, what his/her name is, what kind of voice he/she has, and what his/her gender is. Chrom and Lucina (at least Lucina) seem to be more popular as main characters in regards to main characters as well.

Tharja is a bit surprising to see have quite a bit of support in regards to being a playable character (its not seen here, but go to GameFAQs and its pretty evident). I don't need to explain why she has a lot of support, but I am sure wearing a loincloth and showing lots of cleavage certainly plays a very large part. While Tharja is a good contender to show up as an Assist Trophy, her chances of making it as a playable character, even if FE were to have six slots, are very dismal. Those that actually believe she is a plausible candidate for Smash 4 are within the realm of the perverted fanboy and/or extraordinarily dumb (which again explains why places like GameFAQs are the primary place for her support).

The purpose of all this is to show that contrary to my previous expectations, FE13 did not lead to an explosion of interest in Chrom, but rather led to a large fracturing on whom FE13 fans actually wanted to see for Smash 4. Perhaps, the only thing they can agree on is that Roy is an obstacle (for Chrom supporters it even extends to Ike) to them for their character of choice getting in.

With this much division for FE13 characters, Roy supporters would do well to convince people that FE getting four slots is not unwarranted. Indeed, from polls I have done, there is just as much support for four FE character as there is for the DK series, and much more support than there is for four Kirby or four Star Fox characters. So the interest is there. The key will be to convince people that such a scenario is even possible.

I feel with many FE13 character supporters, although they can't agree on who to even have represent FE13, they do believe Roy could possibly keep them all out. If you have these people believe that four FE characters is actually a realistic scenario, they will be less inclined to attack Roy returning for Smash 4. Without Roy as a common target to attack, they will point at each other (at least among Chrom/Lucina/Anna/MyUnit).

Although Roy has the most support of any FE character, being under the attack of so many different fanbases is something that is very bad for Roy, and bad for picking up support. Getting people accustom to the idea of four FE characters, and for Roy to definitely be among those four (which is a much easier case to argue than for the three slot scenario).

However, even if people remain unconvinced that FE could receive four slots, uncommitted Smash Bros. fans can still be convinced that Roy is the better choice for a third FE character when offered the alternate of Chrom or Lucina. Others have already posted the moveset possibilities for Roy, and Roy is already more visually distinctive than Chrom and Lucina. It will be a challenge but definitely possible.

So to sum it up, although FE13 did not create a massive rivalry with Chrom fans, it did make many Smash Bros. fans think Chrom is definitely" "next in line" and a "shoe-in" (something that we really, really need to challenge), and it did make it so that people are really divided as to who the FE13 character should be.

FE13 turning out the way it did in terms of the way its main characters were portrayed (Chrom, Lucina, and My Unit) was luck on our part. FE13 certainly has a ton of rabid fanboys. Smash Bros. fans being skeptical of Chrom/Lucina's worth as possible newcomers is our biggest bulwark against them.

We have the numbers, we just need the motivation and the initiative to change the field of battle. If everything goes according to plan, Smash Bros. fan rosters will look like:

Fire Emblem:
Marth
Roy
Ike
<insert roster maker's personal choice here>

Its going to take some time and effort, but I think it can be done.

I still have a lot more to say before the advent of the E3 unveil (I am also unfortunately behind on making a proper Roy support topic). However, I really felt this needed to be said as it shows how much the Roy fanbase has persevered in spite of the conditions and new characters introduced in FE13.
 

bobadz

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Bravo! bravo!

Lucina is my favorite character in FE13, but I think she should just be an assist trophy.

I think Roy is the most deserving FE character.

(PS: are you gonna post this on the pro Chrom boards like neogaf and gamefaqs?)
 

Diddy Kong

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I still think it's extremely likely we'll get Chrom or Lucina above the likes of Anna, Tharja and My Unit. But Roy will have priority over them I feel.
 

FalKoopa

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above the likes of Anna, Tharja and My Unit.
Anna and My Unit are leagues above Tharja. :glare:

More on topic:
Though, I'm certainly happy that the Lucina fanbase on SmashBoards is very calm and well behaved. That's a big part of the reason why I've grown up on Lucina despite not having played FE13.
 

Diddy Kong

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Impa is leagues above Groose

I haven't even played FE13, calm yo ****.
 

FalKoopa

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Oh, I would also like to point out that My Unit is slowly becoming a mainstay of the series, so his support probably won't die even if he doesn't make it to Smash 4.

Impa is leagues above Groose

I haven't even played FE13, calm yo ****.
I'm definitely calmer than you. :troll:

And I'll agree that Impa is better than Groose at least.
 

Diddy Kong

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Support of Anna, Tharja, Lucina, Chrom and My Unit will all die out after the next Fire Emblem gets released. We should honestly look at the characters that have actual warranted popularity. So far I can only think of Roy and Lyn. Guess Ike falls under here to, but was speaking of newcomers mostly.

Also, I'm usually quite calm. I could be a lot more fierce if I wanted to.
 

AnOkayDM

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Support of Anna, Tharja, Lucina, Chrom and My Unit will all die out after the next Fire Emblem gets released. We should honestly look at the characters that have actual warranted popularity. So far I can only think of Roy and Lyn. Guess Ike falls under here to, but was speaking of newcomers mostly.


Also, I'm usually quite calm. I could be a lot more fierce if I wanted to.
Mostly true, but I disagree about Anna. As long as she remains in future games she'll remain popular.
 

Gingerbread Man

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Support of Anna, Tharja, Lucina, Chrom and My Unit will all die out after the next Fire Emblem gets released. We should honestly look at the characters that have actual warranted popularity. So far I can only think of Roy and Lyn. Guess Ike falls under here to, but was speaking of newcomers mostly.

Also, I'm usually quite calm. I could be a lot more fierce if I wanted to.
I don't think you're using the word warranted correctly. Those characters all have warranted support. Support that's strictly there because of their source game. If any support isn't "warrented" it should be Lyn and Roy because they gained a lot of popularity for being in a game that's not Fire Emblem.
Maybe not so much lyn, but you would think there would be more Hector support if that was the case.
 

FlareHabanero

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Originally when FE13 was released, I believed that there would be a massive surge of Chrom supporters based on the accolades and hype FE13 was getting. However, as fate would have it, many of the people who loved and experienced FE13 ended up taking a liking to other characters in that game aside from Chrom. Chrom is still much more expected than he is wanted among Smash Bros. fans. However, although Chrom did not benefit as much from the international FE13 release as I thought he would, there still has been an explosion of interest for some sort of FE13 character.
The thing to remember about Chrom is that before the release of Fire Emblem: Awakening in North America/Europe, people were mostly skeptical about the character. While most reactions was mixed at best, people were going to wait until the game was released in order to fully understand the character and his characteristics. Now the the new game has been released in other regions, more people got exposed to Chrom, and that's when things started to fall apart. Not that's it's a huge loss considering the character is just another lord among more then a dozen.

Also yes, I will say that the side characters are in general much more interesting then the main ones (Chrom, Lucina and Robin). If I had to pick 5 in no specific order, it would probably be Kellam, Donnal, Henry, Lon'qu, and Say'ri.


Support threads for Anna, Lucina, My Unit, and Tharja popped up, and these character seemed to have more passionate supporters than Chrom's does, even though Chrom still has more supporters overall than any of those other FE13 characters.
That's a bit of a depressing thought, since all that support at this point will be wasted due to the roster being most likely completed at this point. But as I say, true passion is more powerful in the long run for these types of discussions. Without that energy, it's not going to be worth bothering with. Chrom however still having more supporters doesn't not seem like a good thing.



Particularly with Lucina, we have actually dodged a major bullet. Typically, female character fanbases in Smash Bros. tend be quiet fanatical, loud, and aggressive. FE13 was a title that was well-received both critically and in sales. Lucina, unlike every other female lord (except possibly Cellica from the virtually unknown FE2), outshined her male lord co-star as both a unit (the female lords are usually much weaker than the male lord they have to share the game with) and as a character. Yet, how come Lucina is not a heir to the throne to a fanbase on par with what Lyn and Micaiah saw during pre-Brawl (and the first two years of pre-Smash 4 with Micaiah?).[


Lucina had all the stars aligned for her. She was not outshined by a Hector/Ephraim/Ike as an unit/character. Her game did not get a mixed reception by fans and critics like FE8 (Eirika) or FE10 (Micaiah did). And for many, FE13 was their first game in the series. Yet why is Lucina in Chrom's shadow among Smash Bros. fans?
Up until FE13, there has been four female lords in the series, Cellica, Lyn, Eirika, and Micaiah. Typically, female lords (exception may be Micaiah) are usually far less good as units than the male lords of their games. Also, half of all the female lords in the series up until FE13, used a primary weapon that was not a sword (both Cellica and Micaiah are mage lords). There was literally a 50/50 chance that the female lord we could have gotten in FE13 would have been someone whose primary weapon was not a sword. And also, of the two female sword-wielding lords we did receive up until Lucina (Lyn and Eirika) they visually contrasted with any other male sword-wielding lords.

Literally, the biggest handicap Lucina had from being the next Lyn/Micaiah was that for every possible for her to copy their appearance, she happened to be a female Marth. Marth, whom is probably the only FE character that is 100% safe to return for Smash 4. To make things even particularly worse for Lucina to gain ground among Smash Bros. fans was that Marth himself was given a re-design for FE13 that made him almost exactly the same outfit as Lucina does in FE13. This re-design for Marth was not only done by a series veteran (the art/character designer for FE9/FE10), but also happened to be most popular and well-known re-design due to it not only being the first DLC character made available, but also the only one made available for free.

Could you imagine what we would have to face if Lucina had been a non-primary-sword-wielding lord (or really even a sword-wielding lord that did not look like a genderswap version of Marth) with the benefits of a highly acclaimed source game and being extremely strong as an unit? As it currently stands, Lucina is probably the most popular female lord among FE fans. Her being a genderswap version of Marth (to the point where she spent almost half of the main game calling herself Marth) is basically what is keeping her from eclipsing Chrom in requests among Smash Bros. fans. She may end up eclipsing Chrom in requests at some point, but in terms of convincing people who have not played FE13 that she would be a stand out addition in comparison to Marth and Ike, she faces greater challenges than even Chrom.
So basically in a nutshell, Lucina being Marth with boobs is hurting more then helping. If she had a more contrasting appearance, you'd be seeing a lot more enthusiastic supporters around here. But to play a little bit of devil's advocate, Lucina can be worked around this problem in several ways. For starters, she could wear the mask as seen in varies promotional art depicting her as "Marth" and give the real Marth a different costume to help separate the two even further. Though whether or not that would be enough is another story. At the moment, it seems like Lucina would be overlooked due to being just too similar. Of course there's the irony of people initially thinking that Marth was a girl and we finally have that "Martha" after so many years.


My Unit is the third main character of FE13 and unlike Chrom/Lucina, is easily visually distinctive from other FE lords even in his/her "default" design, and uses magic as a primary weapon just as much as he/she uses swords. However, despite all of this, My Unit has less support than even Anna. My Unit is hurt by not having a defined name, gender, or even an appearance. Most people customized their My Units, and have different personal experiences and envisionments about what My Unit is supposed to look like, what his/her name is, what kind of voice he/she has, and what his/her gender is. Chrom and Lucina (at least Lucina) seem to be more popular as main characters in regards to main characters as well.

Robin could use a canon design in a vein to Shepard from Mass Effect, which would be in theory be the default design. Maybe even alternating between the two genders as an alternate costume.



Though at the same time, the character mixing magic and swordplay isn't anything fresh considering the idea of Issac is thrown around a fair bit, who could in theory do that too. However I will say that Robin being not that popular might have to do with him/her being a bit of a Gary Stu/Mary Sue in the plot. Seriously, that guy/gal is relied on a little too much, especially from Chrom who's supposed to be the leader of the Shepherds. That doesn't sound right to me.


Tharja is a bit surprising to see have quite a bit of support in regards to being a playable character (its not seen here, but go to GameFAQs and its pretty evident). I don't need to explain why she has a lot of support, but I am sure wearing a loincloth and showing lots of cleavage certainly plays a very large part. While Tharja is a good contender to show up as an Assist Trophy, her chances of making it as a playable character, even if FE were to have six slots, are very dismal. Those that actually believe she is a plausible candidate for Smash 4 are within the realm of the perverted fanboy and/or extraordinarily dumb (which again explains why places like GameFAQs are the primary place for her support).
Though I'm not a fan of Tharja (the lust with Robin is kind of creepy), the concept of a Dark Mage does have it's perks. A character throwing around evil magic is something kind of cool. Though like you said, Tharja is not going to be a playable character, much to the dismay of those horny morons from GameFAQs. Though if a mage is really warranted, the best option would be Micaiah.



The purpose of all this is to show that contrary to my previous expectations, FE13 did not lead to an explosion of interest in Chrom, but rather led to a large fracturing on whom FE13 fans actually wanted to see for Smash 4. Perhaps, the only thing they can agree on is that Roy is an obstacle (for Chrom supporters it even extends to Ike) to them for their character of choice getting in..



With this much division for FE13 characters, Roy supporters would do well to convince people that FE getting four slots is not unwarranted. Indeed, from polls I have done, there is just as much support for four FE character as there is for the DK series, and much more support than there is for four Kirby or four Star Fox characters. So the interest is there. The key will be to convince people that such a scenario is even possible

I feel with many FE13 character supporters, although they can't agree on who to even have represent FE13, they do believe Roy could possibly keep them all out. If you have these people believe that four FE characters is actually a realistic scenario, they will be less inclined to attack Roy returning for Smash 4. Without Roy as a common target to attack, they will point at each other (at least among Chrom/Lucina/Anna/MyUnit).
The thing to remember is that there are people out there that are not appealed by Roy and would rather look for an alternative if it was there, even me admittedly. Though the alternatives are very questionable in general, so this gambit might not work in the end. Then there's the whole thing about Roy being outdated, even though (ironically) Fire Emblem: Awakening disproving that by bringing back most of the Lords as DLC with new designs to sweeten (or sour) the deal. However, seeing another character as an obstacle seems kind of silly. There really isn't a rule that states "one character must stay in and another character must stay out".

However, even if people remain unconvinced that FE could receive four slots, uncommitted Smash Bros. fans can still be convinced that Roy is the better choice for a third FE character when offered the alternate of Chrom or Lucina. Others have already posted the moveset possibilities for Roy, and Roy is already more visually distinctive than Chrom and Lucina. It will be a challenge but definitely possible.
The key thing that Roy has is being more distinctive, which alone is a big advantage. The fire properties of his Sword of Seals is a key element to making him a more distinctive fighter then ether Chrom or Lucina. More liberties to toy with, with little shoehorning needed. Not to mention the suggestions for Chrom can easily apply to Roy.



So to sum it up, although FE13 did not create a massive rivalry with Chrom fans, it did make many Smash Bros. fans think Chrom is definitely" "next in line" and a "shoe-in" (something that we really, really need to challenge), and it did make it so that people are really divided as to who the FE13 character should be.
Bah, no character is a shoe-in, the only shoe-in is my shoe going in their face so hard. That statement of being a shoe-in is just spewed out by a bunch of hot heads to make themselves sleep better at night. The only reason people would say that is because being recent somehow is a guarantee for inclusion, which is not the case.


Fire Emblem:
Marth
Roy
Ike
Takamaru
:troll:
 

N3ON

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Does anyone have a unique moveset for Roy? It would really help when we are battling the GameFAQs after E3.
You could come up with a unique moveset, there's probably one in this thread already, but tbh chances are Roy would be a semi-clone (much more differentiated than he was in Melee - like how semi-clones were in Brawl - but still a semi-clone), not that it hurts his chances, semi-clones are easier to add and often are chosen above unique movesets during later stages of roster creation.

So when people say he's likely to be a clone, while probably not a direct clone, they're still right.
 

FlareHabanero

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Does anyone have a unique moveset for Roy?

Special

Flare Blade (Neutral)

A projectile, where Roy swings his sword and creates a large blade of fire that slices through the air forward. Similar to Pit's Palutena's Arrow, the attack's knockback and power will grow slightly stronger the longer it's held but cannot be held using the shield or roll. However as the attack moves, it decimates in size and power.

The Ignited variant removes the stagnating factor and produces a larger and stronger flame.

Blazer (Up)

Normally, the attack functions similar to Blazer from Melee with the only difference being that Roy is not left helpless after the attack and can preform another action (except another Blazer).

The Ignited version extends the length and power of the attack, and instead of causing multiple hits I'll preform a single powerful hit more reminiscent of Marth's Dolphin Slash. The power is based around when it executed; the earlier the stronger.

Double-Edge Strike (Side)

Roy preforms a forward thrust to stab the opponent, ignoring shields and counters. If the attack hits, the opponent will be hit with modest amounts of damage and briefly pause before being knocked back. During the pause, Roy can preform several different actions depending on the button input.

A: Another quick stab that preforms more knockback and damage then the first.
A + Up: Roy preforms a somersault that causes high vertical knockback.
A + Side: A quick rundown attack where Roy slices through the opponent.
A + Down: Points downwards to knock the opponent down.
A (Ignited): Roy preforms a series of stabs in quick succession, then finishes with a quick slash.
A + Up (Ignited): Preforms a somersault, then slams the opponent down with a quick downwards slash engulfed in fire.
A + Side (Ignited): A quick rush down attack where Roy slashes the opponent three time at different angles.
A + Down (Ignited): Points downwards with a large explosion.

However, the attack also has a lot of ending lag and can leave Roy vulnerable if used in the air. If a command is pressed in mid air, Roy will stab the opponent and then toss downwards.

Ignited Seals (Down)

Roy hold the sword to his body to power up the Sword of Seals. This move takes about 3 seconds to charge, but the catch is that the charge cannot be saved in anyway. When the move is fully charged, the Sword of Seals will be depicted as engulfed in fire and the next smash or special attack will have an additional fire effect if not already present. The next smash attack or special attack will do 1.5x more damage and knockback, with some attacks additionally changing in effects. However, only the next attacks in question will be effected, and the move will need to be recharged again after execution.

Forblaze (Final Smash)
Roy summons a large inferno that engulfs the field in a devastating fiery twister, then ends with a large explosion. The center inflicts more damage then the outer sides.

Standard

Neutral: A single horizontal slash in front.
Up Tilt: Spins his sword vertically upwards in front of him.
Side Tilt: Thrusts forward with a quick stab. Weak but very fast with good range, great for spacing.
Down Tilt: Swipes downwards below the ankles. The sourspot causes tripping, while the sweetspot knocks the opponent vertically. Can be used to create a pseudo-crawl.
[Up Smash: Stabs upwards similar to Melee. Replaced with an explosion for the Ignited version.
Side Smash: Slams his sword reminiscent to his old Flare Blade. The Ignited version adds an additional explosion that causes more knockback.
Down Smash: Stabs the ground with his sword. The center of the attack does the most damage and knockback, while the shockwaves it creates on the sides causes tripping. The Ignited version has a fire effect instead and replaces the weaker hitbox with an extension of his stronger hitbox.
Dash: Slashes forward similar to Marth's dash

Aerial

Neutral: A forward to back swing that circles his whole body. Similar properties to his old down aerial minus the meteor smash properties.
Up: Two forward to back slashes upwards.
Forward: A single horizontal swing designed for spacing.
Backward: Kicks backwards twice, similar to Link's back aerial. Unlike other Roy's attacks, this does not involve Roy's typical sweetspot mechanic.
Down: A downwards slash in front of him at a 160 angle with meteor smash properties; a weak meteor smash when sourspotted, a strong meteor smash when sweetspotted. Has more beginning lag then ending lag.

Throws


Pummel: Knees the opponent, similar to Marth's.
Up: Preforms a uppercut with his sword in a vein to his Blazer, but with animations more reminiscentto Ike's up tilt.
Forward: A forward kick.
Backward: Tosses the opponent backwards.
Down: Slams the opponent downwards in front of him, can be used for chain grabbing.
 

Diddy Kong

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But Chrom would just as easy be a clone in that way.
 

Diddy Kong

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Ok so a Marth semi-clone is fine, but a Ike semi-clone isn't? Really, that's just being biased. If Roy support wants to triumph Chrom support, it has to win by being far more honorable. Bias is hardly honorable. I see both characters as equally likely to be honest. Which is why this needs to be done objectively.
 

Croph

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Does anyone have a unique moveset for Roy? It would really help when we are battling the GameFAQs after E3.
I've posted a video with a de-cloned moveset sometime ago that I really liked. It's more combo oriented. And I've seen some nice semi-clone movesets as well.


I know that Manly mentioned that he'd like to try to incorporate some dragon-like powers in a new moveset. I KNOW IT"S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, but I'd like to try my hand at it as well (seems like a cool idea at least). I was thinking that Roy would transform into some sort of mutated half-dragon, half-human (not a full dragon) when certain conditions are met. I'm thinking of making this similar to Dark Phoenix in MvC3; the transformation would be more powerful than normal Roy, but it does have some hinders. I don't think SSB4 will have power meters/gauges and such, so I guess it could work as a final smash too...

Well, I'll see what I can come up with.
 

Diddy Kong

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Ohh God a half-dragon, half-human... :laugh: That video is extremely sexy however Croph!! If Roy got THAT moveset, damn, I think I'd play him!
 

Croph

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Posting this here cuz I think it's more relevant than in the Chrom thread. :3
I mean... I remember quite a few (Western) people feeling weird about Melee having both Marth and Roy since, from a Western perspective, they are not Nintendo's All-Stars and a lot of people had never heard of the franchise, let alone the characters. If Chrom got in as a new independent character, people who are unfamiliar with FE might go "oh dang, he looks cooler than Marth", but I really think their main reaction would be "but who the heck thought Smash Bros. needed a fourth anime dude with weird hair swinging a sword around from the same series".

That's the thing... to anybody who isn't deeply invested in the Fire Emblem franchise, adding in another character like Chrom just seems like over representation of characters with a similar aesthetic and fighting style. I think FE fans are blindly confident in at least one more sword wielding FE character getting in, when it's entirely likely that number will stick at two. From the perspective of the fans who don't play FE, all these characters are generic nobodies.
I think that Roy has the luxury of already being established in Smash; the people who play Melee are familiar with the character, plus the fact that Roy was overall well-received. If Roy gets in, it may not be a problem for those who don't follow the FE series (and perhaps even the people who do), as they might be like, "Oh hey. Flare boy returned!" or at least they might care for him. Roy potentially being more well-received (among other things) is one of the reasons why I think Roy will be better for the long run versus Chrom.

I'm not saying that Chrom won't be well-received. However, I'm sure people will like the guy, even if they don't follow the FE series...though I kinda agree that some people might feel like there's an over representation (but I personally don't believe in over representation of any series).

While I'm at it, I've posted this question in the Roster Prediction Discussion thread, but I feel like posting here in case anyone knows the answer:
Doesn't Roy draw his sword in reverse grip, then flips it to standard? Or am I wrong? I'm no expert in this kind of thing, but there must be a term for this? I'm not sure if Medieval Europe was big on reverse techniques and whatnot, but when I hear reverse draws and such, it's usually with Japanese sword arts. For example, would a draw like this (0:15-0:21) be comparable to Roy's draw? I'm really sure when it comes to these things lol.
I remember seeing someone's post on I think neogafcomparing the similarities of Roy's swordstyle to the Japanese sword arts. I don't know if I can dig it up, but I'll try.

[collapse=Roy's draw]
[/collapse]
 

LaniusShrike

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Thanks for the redirect, Croph. FE threads get mixed up so easily, it's good to try and keep the topics to themselves.

Dang, that's a cool video of the hack Roy and the gifs always look cool. I definitely think that Roy has a higher chance of inclusion... even some people who don't give a crap about FE want him back on the pure fact that he's a veteran.

All the same, I definitely feel like the developers' time would be much better invested in building other characters than trying to come of up with an interesting and different moveset for Chrom and Roy. In the end, Chrom and Marth should occupy the same character slot as alternates, and Ike and Roy should occupy another. FE lords are so frequently designed to be literally the same in terms of gameplay, there just isn't enough to justify any more slots to another swordlords.

As a fighting game, the only real sense of personality we get is through their fighting... In the end, most Smash players would end up feeling like there are three almost identical characters in Smash if there's Marth, Ike, and Roy. It'd be absolutely absurd if there's Marth, Ike, Roy, and a fourth Swordlord like some people are suggesting. It doesn't matter that technically they play different and they have a rich backstory in FE, all most people will see is four anime-ish dudes with swords.
 

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In the end, Chrom and Marth should occupy the same character slot as alternates, and Ike and Roy should occupy another.
If Mario having a Dr. Mario alternative costume was viewed as implausible, what makes you so sure this would work out?
 

LaniusShrike

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If Mario having a Dr. Mario alternative costume was viewed as implausible, what makes you so sure this would work out?

Is there actually a quote from Sakurai where he discusses alternate costumes and addresses why didn't make the Doc an alt? In any case, it's clearly not implausible... almost every other fighting franchise has alternate costumes. Having Ike and Roy in the same slot is functionally the same as the way Brawl treated WarioWare Wario and Wario Land Wario.

That is just functionally; I get why having two different characters in the same slot is less likely than them making alternate costumes. If they decided that was a thing they felt okay with doing, however, it would be a remarkably easy way to get a satisfactory level of character inclusion. It'd be a heck of a lot better than seeing your favorite character as a mere assist trophy, no?

In any case... I'm just saying what the smart thing for them to do would be. Not what I think they will do.
 

ChronoBound

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Yeah, Sakurai said Dr. Mario would not work as an a costume for regular Mario because he did not throw fireballs.

Secondly, most Roy fans would be pretty upset with Roy being an alternate costume for Ike.

I think most people would not have any problem with Marth, Roy, and Ike being in. Its just Chrom that there is problems with because there is nothing about him that really makes him stand out in comparison to other sword-wielding lords.

DLC package with clones seems like the best way to include Roy to me.
Just look at the results to Shortie's poll. Roy is within the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash 4 (the only four above him are Mega Man, Mewtwo, Ridley, and K. Rool). Roy at the very least is within the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4, I think he is definitely above the likes of Pichu and Dr. Mario as a character within Smash Bros.
 

FlareHabanero

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Speaking of alternate costumes, I would mind if all of the Fire Emblem characters had two different costumes based on two different designs they've had, possibly the designs from Super Smash Bros. and Fire Emblem: Awakening.
 

•Col•

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Speaking of alternate costumes, I would mind if all of the Fire Emblem characters had two different costumes based on two different designs they've had, possibly the designs from Super Smash Bros. and Fire Emblem: Awakening.
That'd be cool.

Although..... For Ike, can we have his adult look from Radiant Dawn rather than his FE13 look? ;_; Please?
 

LaniusShrike

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It'd be nice... Every time I've seen multiple designs for FE characters, I've preferred the more recent Awakening design (with the exception of Micaiah).

As for alternate characters... Sure, they'd be upset about Roy being an alternate of Ike, but I'm pretty sure they'd universally prefer that to him not being in the game at all a la Brawl, right? Suddenly, Ike wouldn't have seemed like his replacement but more like an updated version of Roy.
 

•Col•

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It'd be nice... Every time I've seen multiple designs for FE characters, I've preferred the more recent Awakening design (with the exception of Micaiah).

As for alternate characters... Sure, they'd be upset about Roy being an alternate of Ike, but I'm pretty sure they'd universally prefer that to him not being in the game at all a la Brawl, right? Suddenly, Ike wouldn't have seemed like his replacement but more like an updated version of Roy.
Honestly, I wouldn't.

Unless they put in a lot of work (to the point where he might as well be a separate character) by giving him: unique voice actor, announcer for his name, character icons/portraits/statues/misc stuff.
 

FlareHabanero

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Also, Ike and Roy as alternate costumes sounds very weird. They don't have the same body frame or weapon in particular.
 

Bowserlick

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Just look at the results to Shortie's poll. Roy is within the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash 4 (the only four above him are Mega Man, Mewtwo, Ridley, and K. Rool). Roy at the very least is within the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4, I think he is definitely above the likes of Pichu and Dr. Mario as a character within Smash Bros.
His popularity didn't save him from being cut in Brawl.

I just think that there are plenty of new characters from new series with swords that can add more than Roy. Ike even took his B move.

But we will see. Maybe Roy will make a dashing return (hopefully as DLC only).
 

ChronoBound

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His popularity didn't save him from being cut in Brawl.

I just think that there are plenty of new characters from new series with swords that can add more than Roy. Ike even took his B move.
Roy was PLANNED to return. If Sakurai had more time, Roy would have been in Brawl (really it was Sonic having been added so late that made resources that were supposed to be for Mewtwo and Roy diverted towards him).

Also, Roy is more wanted than any those "new series with swords", and even then Takamaru and Shulk are pretty distinctive from the kind of sword character Roy is.

Lastly, Roy is more wanted to be on the actual roster than merely a simply DLC character. Have you even seen the amount of demand there is for Roy's return?
 

•Col•

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His popularity didn't save him from being cut in Brawl.

I just think that there are plenty of new characters from new series with swords that can add more than Roy. Ike even took his B move.

But we will see. Maybe Roy will make a dashing return (hopefully as DLC only).
His Brawl status is kinda irrelevant. He wasn't a priority as much for people as he is now. As in, many people felt plenty of characters should get in over him... Which happened. Those characters got in, so now the amount of overall characters that have priority over Roy has lessened dramatically.

And Ike only took Eruption because Sakruai went 'Oshi- this Ragnell projectile is broken as hell'. D: HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT THE PROJECTILE.
 

Bowserlick

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Three FE characters seems a bit much if they are all going to have similar specials. I feel the same about the space animals. But, hey there are three of them.

I just think that with the focus on improving the quality and balance of characters over roster size, cut characters may have a struggle to come back.
 

ChronoBound

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I just think that with the focus on improving the quality and balance of characters over roster size, cut characters may have a struggle to come back.
I don't know why you say this. In reality, only two of the cut veterans with a strong demand to return (Mewtwo and Roy), and they were the ones of the Forbidden 7 that were the furthest along. There is extremely little interest for the return of Pichu or Young Link, and while there is some interest for Dr. Mario's return, there is generally far more interest in other Mario characters (while Mewtwo and Roy have the most interest of their respective series).
 

LaniusShrike

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Honestly, I wouldn't.

Unless they put in a lot of work (to the point where he might as well be a separate character) by giving him: unique voice actor, announcer for his name, character icons/portraits/statues/misc stuff.
Fair enough. I'd really want those things too... The bare minimum for me would be a model, portrait, and voice actor. I really wouldn't expect more than one trophy though... Maybe a character trophy that's unlocked at the same time as the costume.

Think about it though... none of those things are very much work when you consider the great deal of effort that goes into the hundreds of trophies and stickers. A voice actor comes in for one day's work to make a half dozen grunts... heck, they could just take the assets from other games. I just feel like the Smash developers could spend their time in better ways to improve user experience.

I totally think their frames and weapons could be modified to be the same fairly easily without it looking strange at all. The only real difference in frame is that Ike is taller, but who's to say that the older Roy wouldn't be the same height as Ike anyway? Of course, necessary sword length changes aren't super important- Marth lots some sword length in Brawl but his aesthetic didn't get ruined because of it.

All the same, I feel more strongly about Marth/Lucina/Chrom being alts than I do of Ike and Roy being alts. More to the point, I really do feel that Smash doesn't need three FE swordlords when Marth covers the quick swordplay and Ike covers a strong-but-slow style. People talk about Chrom getting in as the medium character, but it seems entirely unnecessary from both a gameplay standpoint and a series-representation standpoint.

Final Note: If Roy gets in as a separate character, I would want him to get his bloodline as alternate costumes. Let Marth, Ike, and Roy all share a spot with their families.
 

Bowserlick

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I don't know why you say this. In reality, only two of the cut veterans with a strong demand to return (Mewtwo and Roy), and they were the ones of the Forbidden 7 that were the furthest along. There is extremely little interest for the return of Pichu or Young Link, and while there is some interest for Dr. Mario's return, there is generally far more interest in other Mario characters (while Mewtwo and Roy have the most interest of their respective series).
Mewtwo seems like he offers more than Roy. Roy had Marth's moveset and Ike took his B move.

The Forbidden Seven were mostly clones. At that point in time in development, only clones would possibly be feasible to squeeze in. With better online support, maybe Sakurai will realize the ability of DLC to save time without interfering with the release date. So he could focus on quality characters for the initial release, and throw on clones later on.
 

Croph

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Final Note: If Roy gets in as a separate character, I would want him to get his bloodline as alternate costumes. Let Marth, Ike, and Roy all share a spot with their families.
Dragon Ninian as alt costume CONFIRMED!

 

ChronoBound

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Mewtwo seems like he offers more than Roy. Roy had Marth's moveset and Ike took his B move.

The Forbidden Seven were mostly clones. At that point in time in development, only clones would possibly be feasible to squeeze in. With better online support, maybe Sakurai will realize the ability of DLC to save time without interfering with the release date. So he could focus on quality characters for the initial release, and throw on clones later on.
Who is to say Roy would come back as a clone? Roy has a lot of potential for unique specials and a final smash just based on the CANONICAL abilities to the Sword of Seals alone.

Secondly, for many people Roy is a pretty quality newcomer to add. There is a reason why he is among the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4. :awesome:

Secondly, just because you don't like clones, does not mean Sakurai does not. :troll:

I think there is a good chance we will get 1-3 semi-clone newcomers in Smash 4 (think Wolf/Lucas type characters).

I think you are letting your animus against Roy blind you as to thinking he would not be a "quality" addition for the initial release.
 
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