The Lycia Alliance: Roy Legacy Support Thread

[Robert of Normandy]

So we all agree that Roy should get Ike's Eruption attack?

Assuming Ike doesn't keep it, yes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I honestly think that'd be the worst idea ever, having Ike keep Eruption and have Roy in in general. I mean, two Fire Emblem Lords with flame swords is really too much. It even beats the 3 blue sword users in lameness imo.

 

[ChronoBound]

The idea would be to give Eruption to Roy, while Ike has a new neutral special based off of his ability to wield axes. The new Ike special would again be a charge move, however, upon letting go of the B-button, Ike would jump up in the air and leap a certain distance and come down with incredible force (think Hector's normal attack animation, and its a bit of a wink towards Hector since Ike was partially based off of him).

 

[Croph]

I actually know of one other video that I might link to for my Roy support topic. Its basically a video made by a Japanese Roy fan about Roy lamenting not being in Brawl (there is a part even where Roy wonders how long until his game is remade). Its cute, though I am certain most people who will view it will find it weird.

Here is a link:

\ (^ 0 ^) /

Hahaha, I don't think that's weird at all. The vid is pretty cute. But yeah, including those vids in the support topic would be very nice, and hilarious. Gotta love these Japanese memes.

As for Roy getting Ike's Eruption, I wouldn't mind. It's interesting that Ike was given Eruption (after scrapping the projectile attack idea, right?) though...you can almost see that Eruption was meant for Roy...

 

[Diddy Kong]

The idea would be to give Eruption to Roy, while Ike has a new neutral special based off of his ability to wield axes. The new Ike special would again be a charge move, however, upon letting go of the B-button, Ike would jump up in the air and leap a certain distance and come down with incredible force (think Hector's normal attack animation, and its a bit of a wink towards Hector since Ike was partially based off of him).

Ike was based of Hector??? Really? That makes him even more awesome.

Anyways, Ike should get a double attack for Aether I feel, his neutral B should indeed either be the ranged attack from Ragnell aka sword laser. Or a Tomahawk projectile, or him using the Urvan for some wicked slashing attack. Or axes could be featured in Ike's Down B attack.


Roy could hav Eruption for B, side B being the Flare Blade (ranged version) and the rest of his moves should stay 'mostly' the same. Wouldn't mind some cool alternative to his Up B, but think his Down B really needs to stay.

 

[ChronoBound]

his neutral B should indeed either be the ranged attack from Ragnell aka sword laser. Or a Tomahawk projectile, or him using the Urvan for some wicked slashing attack. Or axes could be featured in Ike's Down B attack.

.

Sakurai scrapped Ike's projectile attack because he felt it made him overpowered. A really strong character like Ike shouldn't really have a projectile for the sake of balance.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sakurai scrapped Ike's projectile attack because he felt it made him overpowered. A really strong character like Ike shouldn't really have a projectile for the sake of balance.

There was an attempt at balance?

Ironically the axe projectile would actually make Ike a lot better then he is right now. He's simply too sluggish with a notable gimping problem, so having a projectile would be a good way to compensate.

As for Roy getting Eruption. Well the idea of creating fiery shockwaves as displayed in the decloned video sounds more appealing, because the ability to fire a pseudo-projectile would help with the situation regarding to Roy's crappy hit box mechanic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If he had buff in Aether he would be less gimpable, but I also think Ike should be heavier than he is now. If only slightly. And the way Ike is now, he could easily use a projectile. It's all about balance, you know.

 

[FalKoopa]

I want Ike to be able to use both his Quick Draw and Aether in one jump.

 

[Croph]

I saw this hack where Ike's side smash creates a small shockwave. Dunno if that would be balanced or not, but I thought it was pretty cool.

As for Roy, I'm wondering if he would be better off without that sweetspot...

Actually, when you think about it, a broadsword handles differently than a rapier. If they really want to de-clone Roy, especially on the standard attacks, they could always play up on the differences between the two swords.

 

[bobadz]

I saw this hack where Ike's side smash creates a small shockwave. Dunno if that would be balanced or not, but I thought it was pretty cool.

As for Roy, I'm wondering if he would be better off without that sweetspot...

Actually, when you think about it, a broadsword handles differently than a rapier. If they really want to de-clone Roy, especially on the standard attacks, they could always play up on the differences between the two swords.

Agreed, that would be good start at making them different.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Actually, when you think about it, a broadsword handles differently than a rapier. If they really want to de-clone Roy, especially on the standard attacks, they could always play up on the differences between the two swords.

They are gonna have to change his attacks to better compliment his game style. He is a faster falling character with the hitboxes of his attacks inverted, which does not work with essentially Marth's attacks. It's the reason why Roy cannot combo well or (ironically) make kills.

While I keep crapping on the inverted hitboxes again and again, it can work when properly complimented. For example, Pit in Project M actually likes the hitbox mechanic because it better compliments his style of fighting due to the hitboxes serving two perposes; the sourspot for spacing and the sweetspot for power.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Roy is also a lot better in the Melee SD Remix where they made the sourspot a lot more powerful.

 

[GunBlaze]

Just beautiful

 

[ChronoBound]

The one thing that peeves me off about the Roy haters is how much they usually involve lies in why they hate Roy.

Roy is definitely the favorite as far as FE character that was not included in Brawl is concerned, although anyone who does not like Roy definitely shouts their opinion from the rooftops (usually due to favoring a character that practically would never be able to get in, and think Roy is the obstacle standing in the way to that character's inclusion).

Arguments I see these people use are:
- Roy is not important to the Fire Emblem series (UNTRUE: Roy is the most important and popular lord from the GBA FE trilogy).
- Roy's game is regarded as bad and/or sold poorly (UNTRUE: FE6 is regarded by many as one of the best games in the series, and FE6 is the fourth highest selling game in the series in Japan).
- Roy is the worst lord in the series (UNTRUE: while Roy may be among the weaker lords, Leaf and FE1 Marth are certainly weaker than him, while he is on par with Micaiah and FE3 Book 1 Marth, and overall within the context of FE6, he is regarded as better than most other units in his game).
- Roy would be un-interesting because he would come back as a semi-clone (so could Chrom come in as a semi-clone as well, or perhaps even outright taking Ike's moveset, Falco/Toon Link were pretty popular in Brawl despite being semi-clones/clones anyway, plus Roy has plenty of source material for unique specials/Final Smash, so its very well a possibility Roy could be a completely unique character, especially considering the trajectory of clones within the Smash Bros. series to become more unique with each installment).
- People only like Roy for Smash Bros. (UNTRUE (at least in Japan): In Japan, they have no problem with "weaker lords", just look at how popular Marth was prior to Melee compared to juggernauts like Sigurd/Celice, and Roy won at least two official polls pertaining to FE, one for character popularity for FE6, and one for character popularity for the entire GBA trilogy. Also, a lot of those people who say this (Roy is only popular for Melee), support characters like Lyn/Micaiah who are much less popular than other characters from within their own respective games as well, ie. Hector is far more popular than Lyn, Ike is far more popular than Micaiah).

We need to think of a way to dispense this information to as many people as possible. I try to counter this stuff whenever it gets brought up, but I cannot do this alone. I will no doubt bring this stuff when I finally complete a proper opening post for this topic, however, I think merely just having this information readily available in one place won't be enough.

In both Japan and the West, Roy is definitely the favorite as far as a new FE character is concerned whenever the topic comes up. However, we need to make sure that the haters have no leg to stand on, and we can only do that by challenging them whenever they use any of the above talking points.I absolutely certainly not cannot do this alone, and I specifically get attacked for doing it alone, I hope when social groups start up again, that I can start working with other Roy supporters again much like what happened towards the end of pre-Brawl.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Nah, I just don't like how Roy plays in ether Super Smash Bros. Melee or Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade, nor find him having any interesting character to him. There is no obstacles whatsoever that will somehow just prevent another character from entering, it's just that there is hardly anything remotely interesting to talk about.

 

[ChronoBound]

Nah, I just don't like how Roy plays in ether Super Smash Bros. Melee or Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade, nor find him having any interesting character to him. There is no obstacles whatsoever that will somehow just prevent another character from entering, it's just that there is hardly anything remotely interesting to talk about.

First off, no one likes it how you go into the support topics for characters you hate and simply say "they suck" (you are especially guilty of this in the Dr. Mario topic).

Secondly, your stuff about Roy is merely your opinion (personally I think the properties to the Sword of Seals offers Roy far more potential than any other potential sword-wielding newcomer for FE, especially if solely using canonical abilities).

Lastly, there are certainly obstacles that exist for a character not getting into Smash Bros, whether you refuse to believe them or not.

 

[FlareHabanero]

First off, no on
e likes it how you go into the support topics for characters you hate and simply say "they suck" (you are especially guilty of this in the Dr. Mario topic).

First off, the Dr. Mario thing is finished. Now things are tranquil in that thread (and have ironically died out) since then.

Also don't even pretend that your not guilty of this ether. You have a real problem with people supporting Lyn and/or rejecting Roy, and will fight them to the death.

Secondly, your stuff about Roy is merely your opinion.

I could say the same thing for you considering the amount of **** you spew out. Especially the stuff that is bluntly biased.

Lastly, there are certainly obstacles that exist for a character not getting into Smash Bros, whether you refuse to believe them or not.

Well whatever obstacles are provided are just fallacy bullcrap designed to help babies sleep at night. Stop exaggerating that this is some sort of beauty pageant and every single flaw is considered worse then death.

 

[ChronoBound]

First off, the Dr. Mario thing is finished. Now things are tranquil in that thread (and have ironically died out) since then.

Partially thanks to you finally shutting up about your Doc hate.

Also don't even pretend that your not guilty of this ether. You have a real problem with people supporting Lyn and/or rejecting Roy, and will fight them to the death.

No, don't twist my words or opinions (as much as you enjoy it). I merely counter the negative things people say about Roy is because they are often untrue. As for Lyn, I only bring her up when people consider her as a likely contender for Smash 4 which happens in the roster thread considering there is like four fanboys for who actively post in that thread (one of which is you).

I could say the same thing for you considering the amount of **** you spew out. Especially the stuff that is bluntly biased.

Again another lie and twist. You seem to love appropriating the attributes of yourself onto others, don't you?

Well whatever obstacles are provided are just fallacy bullcrap designed to help babies sleep at night. Stop exaggerating that this is some sort of beauty pageant and every single flaw is considered worse then death.

The only "baby" here is you. The only other people who believe that sort of trash are the same people who put Travis Touchdown on their rosters.

Applying your "logic" for pre-Brawl:

Slippy was as likely as Wolf and Krystal.
Canas was as likely as any other FE newcomer.
Tails was as likely as Sonic.

The fact is that the reason you hate "obstacles" is that for most of the characters you personally support, there is a multitude of obstacles facing them, so you just want to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to what will probably happen.

You are notorious for being an obnoxious jerk to others. Your schtick got old fast. It does not come across as edgy anymore.

 

[bobadz]

So, to bring back more positivity to thread, Do you guys think Roy will be based on his FE:A artwork, or his FE6 design?

 

[---]

FE1 Marth are certainly weaker than him

Stats wise yes, but FE1 Marth is actually one of the best units in the game (if we're ignoring that secret shops have unlimited items). The simple FE1 AI will always target Marth before any other character if in reach, meaning there's a lot of strategic abuse that can be done with this. Marth himself can also act well as a solo unit due to his well rounded stats. I honestly can't name how many times Marth's saved my *** during some of the longer chapters during the early-mid game.

Never thought I'd ever argue FE1 stuff.

In both Japan and the West,

As a side thought, it's certainly been a while since either you or Toise put together one of your Japanese expectation charts/things. Am getting a tad tired of Shortie's poll, it would certainly give us something to pass the time.

 

[ChronoBound]

So, to bring back more positivity to thread, Do you guys think Roy will be based on his FE:A artwork, or his FE6 design?

I think Roy's design will take both from his original and the FE13 design, though I could also see either the classic being the default and the FE13 re-design being an alternate, or the other way around.

There was actually a piece of artwork I saw that combined classic Roy with FE13 Roy. I will try to find it.

 

[Croph]

Um... Yes, lets try to bring back some positivity...

@bobadz: I think that Sakurai will have his own portrayal of Roy, like how Roy's appearance is slightly different in Melee compared FE6. Whether that'd be a mix of Awakening and FE6, I don't really know, but I'm sure it would look nice in the end. If anything, I'd love an Awakening alt if Roy's looks are based on FE6.

There was actually a piece of artwork I saw that combined classic Roy with FE13 Roy. I will try to find it.

Oooh, please do. That sounds like it would look pretty cool. c:

 

[ChronoBound]

Stats wise yes, but FE1 Marth is actually one of the best units in the game (if we're ignoring that secret shops have unlimited items). The simple FE1 AI will always target Marth before any other character if in reach, meaning there's a lot of strategic abuse that can be done with this. Marth himself can also act well as a solo unit due to his well rounded stats. I honestly can't name how many times Marth's saved my *** during some of the longer chapters during the early-mid game.

Never thought I'd ever argue FE1 stuff.

As a side thought, it's certainly been a while since either you or Toise put together one of your Japanese expectation charts/things. Am getting a tad tired of Shortie's poll, it would certainly give us something to pass the time.

I thought FE1 Marth was pretty awful up until he got the Falchion (it didn't help he had very low growths as well). The FE1 Falchion makes Marth practically invincible though. Though up until then Marth is pretty awful. At least on Japanese FE sites, the consensus seems to be that FE1 Marth is the worst FE lord in terms of lords within their own games.

I do like that utility you found for FE1 Marth though.

As for the Japanese speculation scene, nothing much has changed. The only thing that is different is that there are less requests for Zoroark, and much more confidence that Mewtwo is going to return. Otherwise everything is the same. There is only a small circle of characters they ask for on a regular basis. Mewtwo, Roy, K. Rool, Mega Man, Palutena, Shulk, Chrom, Zoroark are that circle.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Partially thanks to you finally shutting up about your Doc hate.

Well, I do hate Dr. Mario a lot less nowadays considering that Golden justified Dr. Mario. I'm kind of a mild supporter now, due to the concept of a combat medic sounding appealing (also because there really isn't an alternative).

No, don't twist my words or opinions (as much as you enjoy it). I merely counter the negative things people say about Roy is because they are often untrue. As for Lyn, I only bring her up when people consider her as a likely contender for Smash 4 which happens in the roster thread considering there is like four fanboys for who actively post in that thread (one of which is you).

Ironically, your twisting words more then I ever could. I'm not a Lyn fanboy like you pretend to think I am. The closest thing to fanboying over an Fire Emblem character is Marth.

Now if you said something along the lines of Pit or Kirby, then yes you'd see some hardcore **** go down. But for Lyn, your barking up the wrong tree pal.

Again another lie and twist. You seem to love appropriating the attributes of yourself onto others, don't you?

Yet another lie and twist. You seem to be the one that attributes yourself onto others.

The fact is that the reason you hate "obstacles" is that for most of the characters you personally support, there is a multitude of obstacles facing them, so you just want to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to what will probably happen.

No, the reason why I hate the obstacle trump card is that they contain the most ******** reasons I've ever seen. Same applies the whole "rep" thing.

You are notorious for being an obnoxious jerk to others. Your schtick got old fast. It does not come across as edgy anymore.

Yes, because the grump who's telling me I'm a grump is so perfect in every way. Your right, maybe I should kiss your feet.

 

[ChronoBound]

I hate you ChronoBound, with a side of snidey snark.

Time for you to get some sleep.

I don't have the time to address all of your "comebacks", and I don't want your snippiness to continue on longer, so I will just say this.

If you have nothing positive to contribute to this topic, you should probably just stay clear of it. We already know your opinion and disposition, so stop poisoning the well.

I'm gonna stop this right now.

Both of you keep this in PMs.

No, the only reason this happened if that Habanero has a forum beef with me, and basically feels the need to air it any chance he gets.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm gonna stop this right now.

Both of you keep this in PMs.

 

[bobadz]

All im gonna say is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbo-HfVZdUs

now to get back on topic. What do you guys think Roy's Final Smash would be?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

All im gonna say is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbo-HfVZdUs

I personally would have gone with this:

Spoiler

now to get back on topic. What do you guys think Roy's Final Smash would be?

I think that fireball thing he does with the Sword of Seals would be good.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If you have nothing positive to contribute to this topic, you should probably just stay clear of it. We already know your opinion and disposition, so stop poisoning the well.

First off, keep in mind that this is a discussion thread, not a support thread.

Discuss all information pertaining to Roy in this thread.

See? Not a single word that mentions "support". This means I can freely express whatever comment I desire. In other words, I can freely say that Roy isn't interesting and move on.

 

[ChronoBound]

See? Not a single word that mentions "support". This means I can freely express whatever comment I desire. In other words, I can freely say that Roy isn't interesting and move on.

I doubt the same sort of leniency would happen in the main forum (for example, me going into the Takamaru thread, and suddenly voicing negative opinions any chance I could get). On the italicized note, you don't move on, even despite there not there being a need to constantly having to re-voice your opinion despite this thread only usually only getting 10-15 new posts a week.

Anyway, searching for that previously mentioned piece of artwork with Roy, I found this:

I think its really cute, and perhaps the supporters for every cut Melee character could use them for their respective threads as well.

 

[---]

I thought FE1 Marth was pretty awful up until he got the Falchion (it didn't help he had very low growths as well). The FE1 Falchion makes Marth practically invincible though. Though up until then Marth is pretty awful. At least on Japanese FE sites, the consensus seems to be that FE1 Marth is the worst FE lord in terms of lords within their own games.

I do like that utility you found for FE1 Marth though.

As for the Japanese speculation scene, nothing much has changed. The only thing that is different is that there are less requests for Zoroark, and much more confidence that Mewtwo is going to return. Otherwise everything is the same. There is only a small circle of characters they ask for on a regular basis. Mewtwo, Roy, K. Rool, Mega Man, Palutena, Shulk, Chrom, Zoroark are that circle.

I humbly disagree with the FE1 stuff.

That sounds kinda boring, but I still think it'd be nice to put something together to pass the time and especially since E3's coming up.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Anyway, searching for that previously mentioned piece of artwork with Roy, I found this:

I think its really cute, and perhaps the supporters for every cut Melee character could use them for their respective threads as well.

Image isn't working. When I follow the link, I get a "403 forbidden" error.

 

[ChronoBound]

Image isn't working. When I follow the link, I get a "403 forbidden" error.

That's weird. Here is the link where I got it:
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=manga&illust_id=22290512

I can see the artwork just fine. Maybe someone else can host it?

 

[bobadz]

Yeah I can see it now.

 

[Croph]

Yep, I can see the pic as well. Very cute and wow Dr. Mario is looking pretty good...I mean not as good as Roy of course, but um still handsome nonetheless. Anyway, I'm glad you brought that up because the pic reminds me of some others that I have seen...

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

Regarding your big post ChronoBound, we're going to have to go on GameFAQs if we are truly going to try to convince people that Roy is the best choice for a third Fire Emblem character. The site has a lot more detractors and what supporters are there are immediately drowned out by detractors (Kooky can't even hold his ground, last time he tried to argue for Roy his arguments weren't taken seriously).

Not saying to neglect Smashboards, but GameFAQs is going to be a pretty important site for our battleground and we need to try to focus most of our efforts there, especially when E3 is looming.

 

[bobadz]

Regarding your big post ChronoBound, we're going to have to go on GameFAQs if we are truly going to try to convince people that Roy is the best choice for a third Fire Emblem character. The site has a lot more detractors and what supporters are there are immediately drowned out by detractors (Kooky can't even hold his ground, last time he tried to argue for Roy his arguments weren't taken seriously).

Not saying to neglect Smashboards, but GameFAQs is going to be a pretty important site for our battleground and we need to try to focus most of our efforts there, especially when E3 is looming.

What arguments do the give for why Roy should not be in the game?

 

[Mew2King]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5DLxaUesjE

http://t.co/qbirklrDRZ

 

[Deleted member]

What arguments do the give for why Roy should not be in the game?

Pretty much the same argument that Smashboards gives, but because GameFAQs are a lot more likely to follow bandwagons than Smashboards, the majority support Chrom (though I would wager most of the support is based off the expectations of getting a FE newcomer rather than actually wanting it).

Oh and they like to argue that Roy is irrelevant, despite many of them not understanding what relevance is and having double standards on relevance as well.