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The Lycia Alliance: Roy Legacy Support Thread

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Something I posted at:
https://plus.google.com/10942553503602517…/posts/3jJDtF8P7Sa

"Well +ccla7247 I have a plan so far with lots of backing (hundreds of votes or emails) and the general problem with Roy is another Marth which Sakurai easily knows since he's keen on a fair amount of fan feedback and we have the sound files leaked of Roy, so I've been pushing really hard for him to be decloned. Some of his moves, like usmash and specials are unique enough to stay. Dtilt and Fsmash are staples of Roy and some of his best moves, new animations and a bit of repurposing can make those stand out enough. All of his other moves should be changed. That's what Nintendo has received so far from a decent amount of people, or just general requests for decloning. Project M did a lazy cut-and-paste job, but Brawl Minus is an excellent example of Roy thriving with a declone, and I have a vision of him receiving even more while staying true to his fundamentals and bringing out his strengths. I think he can be both a newcomer to those who want a character with a new moveset and a veteran for those who will be familiar with Roy's playstyle enough to adapt, killing two birds with one stone.

As for Fire Emblem. I don't consider Lucina a rep, she's just one quick step away from being an alternate costume, so I think a true fourth rep (Roy) isn't a problem. Fire Emblem is a 25 year old series with 13 games, and is currently one of Nintendo's biggest franchises, I can tell Hoshido, Nohr, and SMT x FE are going to sell many copies altogether to make it one of Nintendo's bestselling franchises. Fire Emblem currently has two full games with different stories, lots of different content, and both are for different audiences coming to the 3DS, a huge crossover game coming to the Wii U, and a revival of its TCG coming. Name another Nintendo series who can say they're doing all of that besides Pokemon. Besides, the Fire Emblem series has hundreds of characters and is only repping 3 plus one who is a step away from being an alt, and Roy is currently Fire Emblem's most deserving rep from many standpoints.

Besides, with relevancy and importance, I can counter both points for Roy.

He has an epic Awakening redesign that is a fan favorite and one of the top designs for most fans, an appearance in the SMT x FE original trailer, and with Smash DLC he would get Hoshido/Nohr amiibo DLC, potential SMT x FE amiibo DLC, a Codename S.T.E.A.M character, and possibly FE6 overseas, translated or remade. There are many things that not only make him a relevant character but could bring lots of relevancy and game+amiibo+DLC sales with his inclusion. What also makes him relevant is that he is the only character on Ninbuzz's top five best Fire Emblem lords poll (pretty recent) that isn't in the newest Smash in one way or another.

For importance? He brought FE overseas alongside Marth, his game is among the best selling and reviewing games of the series in Japan, he allowed the series to live after Shozou Kaga and his team left Intelligent Systems, he is the only Fire Emblem character who is a left out Smash veteran meaning many sales from those who liked him in Melee, and he's probably the only deserving Melee veteran at this point to balance the Melee -> Brawl pattern with Mewtwo and Lucas for quite a while.

For DLC requests, he was #2 in Japan for quite a while behind Mewtwo, and still remains a top 3 in Japan after Mewtwo and Lucas's inclusions. Overseas, he is consistently a top 10 requested character.

If you want to push for a relevant or important character, Roy is among the top ranking characters that 'we should focus on.'"

allright that makes sense. too bad i cant have Marth with good skills unless i want the spotpass version. also do you think FE IF will have Marth Ike Lucina and Robin as DLC in case you cant get the amiibo?
I hope so but I doubt it. I'm mad that they said they'd fix their slipups on amiibo and yet the majority of people who tried to buy Lucina and Robin at the very time they were released couldn't get one. Online? I heard they sold out within a minute. I dislike how Nintendo is hyping up software that only a few hardware owners with special figurines will experience, continuing to push the software on everyone without fixing simple major issues people have had for months that limit the sales of that software and who can experience it. You either have to be really lucky or pay way above a reasonable price to scalper pockets for one. It's somewhat disturbing that I don't even want to try for an Ike amiibo even though he was my Brawl main since 2008 and with how much I love the Tellius games, even someone with that much under their belt isn't going to find the godforsaken thing. I sent my criticism on that to them yesterday. Amiibo support and its DLC is a good thing but not with the way they have their thumbs up their bums.
If other characters who are DLC such as Minerva are unlikely to receive amiibo due to how few FE amiibo copies we already have, I can see the Smash characters having the option of strictly digital DLC alongside them.

brb gonna make a ballot vote and mention Roy's potential appearance in FE: if.
I need to do the same. I'll act like the Codename S.T.E.A.M, Hoshido/Nohr, and potential SMT x FE amiibo support suddenly possessed me to vote for Roy. :laugh:
 
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Promotional image by Joe Polestar in our Facebook group :awesome: Please spread this around anywhere you guys can, we have to let more people know they're not alone in our fight.

Rhythm, you replied at the perfect time since I was worried about the double post rule before opening up Smashboards and had to get this on here.
 
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belmontzar

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Assuming I read stuff right, Roy is gonna be in another FE game? With Amibo support, I wonder if we will get an RPG game where the amiibo are your party members.
Ya knwo a full fledged RPG game that utilizes them all with extra characters in the game itself as well. I really like the idea of being able to just ADD people like Marth and Link to games, or anyone in tht matter. I mean it means you can see yoru fave characters in more games, and im REALLY hoping this gets used to its MAX potential.
NEXT monster hunter
Amiibo give special weapons [sorta like how it worked in Hyrule warriors XP] and armor. [Ok I made the las tthing up.. but dont ya think that would be AWESOME! Id love to run around Aethering flying wyverns when they try to run away, or having the FE cast as back up during a hunt. ^_^]
 
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Assuming I read stuff right, Roy is gonna be in another FE game? With Amibo support, I wonder if we will get an RPG game where the amiibo are your party members.
Ya knwo a full fledged RPG game that utilizes them all with extra characters in the game itself as well. I really like the idea of being able to just ADD people like Marth and Link to games, or anyone in tht matter. I mean it means you can see yoru fave characters in more games, and im REALLY hoping this gets used to its MAX potential.
NEXT monster hunter
Amiibo give special weapons [sorta like how it worked in Hyrule warriors XP] and armor. [Ok I made the las tthing up.. but dont ya think that would be AWESOME! Id love to run around Aethering flying wyverns when they try to run away, or having the FE cast as back up during a hunt. ^_^]
If Roy got Smash DLC, he'd be:
  • Hoshido/Nohr DLC
  • Codename S.T.E.A.M DLC
  • Potential SMT x FE DLC
So yes, he'd make a huge return to Fire Emblem :pimp:

That Amiibo RPG party building experience sounds amazing. I would love to have Mario, Marth, Link, and Captain Falcon in the same party.
 

Croph

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Do you think Amiibos will work for the new Monster Hunter X game, especially the FE cast? In Frontier G we got Chrom and Lucina as DLC costumes, so who knows, maybe IS will collaborate with Capcom again.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Do you think Amiibos will work for the new Monster Hunter X game, especially the FE cast? In Frontier G we got Chrom and Lucina as DLC costumes, so who knows, maybe IS will collaborate with Capcom again.
If Ryu's inclusion is anything to go by, Caocom will do anything to get some quick profit and extending a game's longitivity. With all the One Piece collaborations that happened a few years ago, there would be no way for them miss out on an oppurtunity. It wouldn't be farfetched to assume that they came crawling to Nintendo's door steps to ask for Amiibo support in MHX.
 

Tahu Mata

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Less than 2 weeks left, guys. Let's hope it does come true and we see our boy there.

I'll also try my best to be more active here. A bunch of real life stuff was on the way, but that's all over with now for the moment.

I'm glad I could be part of this group. It's been really fun speculating and just talking with you this past month, and I'll keep on supporting Roy alongside you guys until the day we see him. Hopefully that day isn't too far away.
 

GhettoNinja

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I dont know if this is worth much but as a Roy main both Melee and PM I'm honestly hoping he keeps his Move set from Melee with some small modifications. Keep his neutral B the same (so much better at edge guarding then Marth's Brawl Shield Breaker) his Recovery and Counter(quite different when compared to the rest) and his counter has a weird ark. Like Idk if I'm really getting my point across but melee Roy is already a semi clone when compared to Smash 4 marth and honestly I'd love to see him in smash 4 in all his melee glory(his D-Tilt combos are much more viable in smash 4 since it follows the usual combos in this game) so ya...I hoped I represented keeping Roy the same as he is in melee. Though changing his Up-Tilt and and maybe Bair(both are basically as bad as Marth's in smash 4)
 

Ura

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That's not enough to distinguish him from Marth and Lucina. He can keep his Neutral B, Up B, and Down B, and Nair (with an added fire effect) as it's not used by either of the two but otherwise, his Side B and A attacks need to go in favor of new, revamped moves to make the character more appealing and so consumers don't feel like their wasting their money on a 2nd clone of one character.

Besides, most fans that want Roy back because of Melee want the character back and the moveset he had has less emphasis compared to that. Even if that was the case, they would probably only care about seeing his old Neutral B (and maybe Up B and Down B) from Melee wouldn't have to change.
 

Croph

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If Roy were to be mostly based on his Melee self, I would think they would give him some new standard move animations (like how Falco and Ganon have some) to better compliment his playstyle (in which he'll definitely need some buffs/tweaks, but hey I'm really liking Mewtwo compared to his Melee self, so I have some faith that Roy might turn out at least decent). Specials would be mostly unique already.

Also, I had the weirdest dream about Roy's reveal last night.

His reveal trailer was shown, though it's kinda hard to explain what went on... The stage was on Tomodachi Life, except it was a Wii U version. And at the beginning Marth randomly appeared, and Roy was peeking from the side of the screen (you could only see a bit of his head). Then Marth appeared on a different spot on the stage, as well as Roy except Roy's back was towards the audience so you couldn't see much. Basically the trailer kept showing only small bits of Roy until the end where his full model appeared. Roy's armour looked different and he wore a small red crown on his head. Some people didn't expect this, but liked his design nonetheless. I told myself that Roy getting an updated design might mean that it was taken from an upcoming game he's appearing in, like a FE6 remake. I didn't realize what the song was in the trailer until after I woke up and thought about it. The song that played was Rebel Waltz by The Clash.


Strange dream indeed.

Welp, looks like I'm on a Clash listening spree lmao.
 
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belmontzar

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Do you think Amiibos will work for the new Monster Hunter X game, especially the FE cast? In Frontier G we got Chrom and Lucina as DLC costumes, so who knows, maybe IS will collaborate with Capcom again.
We did get Samus and Link gear in Monster hunter 4 So I would not be shocked to see FE things appear as well.
Hilariously in hind sight Monster hunter 4 also had Chun Li and Blanka looks, so its equally possible that if we do get Fire emblem DLC it might not be related to the Smash fighters.
 

Chris_Skorniak

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That's not enough to distinguish him from Marth and Lucina. He can keep his Neutral B, Up B, and Down B, and Nair (with an added fire effect) as it's not used by either of the two but otherwise, his Side B and A attacks need to go in favor of new, revamped moves to make the character more appealing and so consumers don't feel like their wasting their money on a 2nd clone of one character.

Besides, most fans that want Roy back because of Melee want the character back and the moveset he had has less emphasis compared to that. Even if that was the case, they would probably only care about seeing his old Neutral B (and maybe Up B and Down B) from Melee wouldn't have to change.
I dont see why you want him to change his side b. The best we can hope for is PMs variation nothing more. Even with PMs version he is NOTHING like Marth and Lucina. In fact they suck so much in Sm4sh Roy will finally be better than them. Lucas and Mewtwo were not changed so i dont expect Roy to be changed. Roy haters will deal with it and if you dont like it dont buy his DLC. Simple as that.
 

Tahu Mata

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I personally think Roy could use some more changes. Yeah, the changes Marth received in Brawl and Smash 4 have differentiated him, but I feel they should change him in more areas, most notably his A moves.
 

Croph

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I'm pumped for Dr. Mario Miracle Cure coming next week, I hope we get something like the FE characters in labcoats with amiibo functionality.

Traditional Dr. Marth! and L-shaped Dr. Lucina! modes.

--

Since I'm going to busy until the evening, I have a few points I need to counter against some guy on Twitter. I would look into all of these myself, but I have quite a bit of time before I can, and I might miss a few things, so I want to see if you guys have any points to counter these:

http://imgur.com/9ImEf7e

http://imgur.com/NT5D5LP

(These are arguing against Roy's inclusion, and I need as much as I can to get this guy to finally shut up)
Let's see if I could help...

You should keep in mind that some people, no matter how hard you try, will not change their opinion. Present some logical facts, and if you feel like they won't budge, perhaps you'll have to agree to disagree and move on.

"A DLC character having his moveset changed (change, not modified) is unprecedented"

This is what I have to say on the matter:

I mean, clone characters like Luigi, Falco, Ganon, etc. have gotten fleshed out over the installments. Roy was also planned for Brawl, so the team probably had some rough ideas for changes to his moveset, especially considering how the other clones like Falco and Ganon got changes.

Fast forward to Smash 4, Mewtwo doesn't need drastic changes since his moveset is already unique. Lucas is unique enough. At the very least I could see Roy being similar to Ganon/Falco.

Roy's situation is different because with DLC you're selling a single character as oppose to the whole roster. They might go the extra mile and de-clone Roy (or make him similar to Lucas) if they feel like Roy being a clone may not be as profitable and would like Roy to have a better selling point (still think he'd be profitable if he's still clone-ish).

In the end, I think there's too many factors to take into account here. We'll have to wait and see how things turn out.
At least, they have a reason if they want to make changes to Roy (with Lucina being a Marth clone there might be some motivation).

"We don't need 2 Marth's, let alone 3"

Well, this "need" argument is kinda subjective (and could be applied to any character really). You see Roy's popularity? Yeah, there's A LOT that would like Roy to return, and probably don't care if he's clone-ish or not. Nintendo would be meeting some of their goals of giving fans what they want, that being bringing back a highly requested character. And Roy falls into this. You probably have reasons why Roy would play differently than Lucina and Marth, so I'm sure you can deal with arguments from a gameplay perspective.

I don't know what the Zelda series has to do with Roy, seems like a red herring. Series representation was skewed from the start and will always be, I'll say this.

I'll try to cover the other arguments at a later time (busy right now).
 

MoveMan1

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A dlc veteran having their moveset changed is unprecedented? When there's only been two veterans, let alone two dlc characters so far?

YOU DON'T SAY.
 

ZeldaMaster

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GRsmash with a Sethlon Roy combo video. GRsmash is a rising channel in the Smash community, and it's great he highlighted Sethlon's Roy in one of his videos.
 

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Regarding all the talk of decloning Roy (particularly his Side-B), I thought I might say that what PM did to him was gave him some of Brawl Marth's animations, while Marth in PM got Marth/Roy's animations from Melee.

I can see Sm4sh doing the opposite. Makes sense.
 
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I'd like to introduce you guys to @TomComics, he goes by Mateo on Miiverse and I found him via chance encounter somehow here.

I went to an online tourney for Lucas. It was so poorly handled that I peaced in the middle of it, since it wasn't worth a Lucas code, which made me reflect on how to handle a Roy code giveaway. I plan on at least one if we get him confirmed :)
 

Croph

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I'd like to introduce you guys to @TomComics, he goes by Mateo on Miiverse and I found him via chance encounter somehow here.

I went to an online tourney for Lucas. It was so poorly handled that I peaced in the middle of it, since it wasn't worth a Lucas code, which made me reflect on how to handle a Roy code giveaway. I plan on at least one if we get him confirmed :)
Ohh, he's the guy that made this awesome post some time ago: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHjZiSOuKQ I love his artworks!

The giveaway sounds like a great idea, especially for celebrating our boy if he returns and to thank all the supporters. I don't mind helping with the giveaway if you need some extra hands.
 
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belmontzar

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I dunno why people are talking about making characters move the same way that tehy were programmed in by a group of Custom smash fans.
PM may be a neat program but I dont see why nintendo would focus any of its ttention on making characters move the way a FAN GROUP made them move in a hacked game.
Id be much happier seeing Roy do what Dr mario did, which was use a move set purposly based on their last appearance.
 
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I dunno why people are talking about making characters move the same way that tehy were programmed in by a group of Custom smash fans.
PM may be a neat program but I dont see why nintendo would focus any of its ttention on making characters move the way a FAN GROUP made them move in a hacked game.
Id be much happier seeing Roy do what Dr mario did, which was use a move set purposly based on their last appearance.
People are suggesting that because they don't want to listen to the endless ******** from the people who don't want him in that will inevitably pop up if he is a clone, I'd guess.
 

belmontzar

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I can understand that, and I LOVE the fact people where able to add so much to Brawl with project M. [Since I might get the wii for personal use I might even be able to try it out myself ^_^]
But I just felt the need to point out that Project M was a FAN made work.. and not by nintendo. Granted it used many nintendo assets and many unused files that were already in brawl.. but still.. just getting kinda sick of reading that.
"Make this character in teh game, but make him move like in this Fan production of YOUR game because your version sucked." Is how it might be interperated by companies. May not be meant like that.. but still..
 

Ura

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I dont see why you want him to change his side b. The best we can hope for is PMs variation nothing more. Even with PMs version he is NOTHING like Marth and Lucina. In fact they suck so much in Sm4sh Roy will finally be better than them. Lucas and Mewtwo were not changed so i dont expect Roy to be changed. Roy haters will deal with it and if you dont like it dont buy his DLC. Simple as that.
And yet you want Roy to be like how he was in PM? Sounds like a double standard to me. Changing his Side B to a ranged fire attack and his A attacks being different would make him as much of a clone to Marth as Wolf is a clone to Fox.

Mewtwo and Lucas are bad examples. I don't even know how many times I emphasized that already but they have virtually nothing in common with Roy's case.
 

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I can understand that, and I LOVE the fact people where able to add so much to Brawl with project M. [Since I might get the wii for personal use I might even be able to try it out myself ^_^]
But I just felt the need to point out that Project M was a FAN made work.. and not by nintendo. Granted it used many nintendo assets and many unused files that were already in brawl.. but still.. just getting kinda sick of reading that.
"Make this character in teh game, but make him move like in this Fan production of YOUR game because your version sucked." Is how it might be interperated by companies. May not be meant like that.. but still..
One of the main reason why I want Roy back is this, basically. Project M did an amazing work on Roy, but its a fan made project, I hope that Sakurai tweaks/reworks Roy so good that will show 'em how's done. And at the end of the day, I'll end up with an amazing character! ^^
 

Croph

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You probably know this, but Lucas will be available on the 14th. The official site has been updated with the addition of Lucas: http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/lucas.html

And the heck, I just noticed this thread has 30 Likes from Facebook... O.o Didn't know you can do that.

The strange thing is, Treasure (game company that made the Sin & Punishment games, among others), followed our Twitter account after we followed them. This is the first time a video game company followed us, I believe. I think Treasure just auto-follows people, but it's still nice I guess.
 

Chris_Skorniak

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And yet you want Roy to be like how he was in PM? Sounds like a double standard to me. Changing his Side B to a ranged fire attack and his A attacks being different would make him as much of a clone to Marth as Wolf is a clone to Fox.

Mewtwo and Lucas are bad examples. I don't even know how many times I emphasized that already but they have virtually nothing in common with Roy's case.
I just want Roy to be the best he is and that is his PM version. I would hate Roy if he changed his side b to a projectile. DED is his best approach and combo option second to Dtilt. How is it double standards if i want the same Roy we always had. Hell i really would not give a crap if i got melee Roy even. Pm Roy is just more fun than melee Roy. But Sm4sh Roy no matter what will be better than Melee due to different mechanics. Dont ask for something to be changed when you know it wont. How do we know that Roy in Pm didnt use the brawl moveset? How do we know Brawls Roy moveset? What if PMDT found it and put it on Roy?
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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You probably know this, but Lucas will be available on the 14th. The official site has been updated with the addition of Lucas: http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/lucas.html

And the heck, I just noticed this thread has 30 Likes from Facebook... O.o Didn't know you can do that.

The strange thing is, Treasure (game company that made the Sin & Punishment games, among others), followed our Twitter account after we followed them. This is the first time a video game company followed us, I believe. I think Treasure just auto-follows people, but it's still nice I guess.
That and hes the same price as mewtwo

So this is the line of all dlc characters


So for the third one and so on will be 3.99 for one and 4.99 for both
 

Croph

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There's still the possibility of Roy's price being lower if he's clone-ish (in fact, I do hope he'll be lower if not a lot of effort is put into him), although I wouldn't be surprised if he's $3.99/$4.99 for both. Or all fighters for the matter. Only time will tell.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Since Lucas got revealed out already, I wonder what it means to E3 overall incase of Roy and Ryu. We also have to keep an eye on the upcoming update adding Lucas in order to find out if the sound files are still there.
 

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You probably know this, but Lucas will be available on the 14th. The official site has been updated with the addition of Lucas: http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/lucas.html.
I actually expected a big Smash DLC pack with Lucas, Roy, Ryu and some stages instead a single fighter...does this make the Roy comeback more plausible? How much time will we have to wait until he is actually realesed, if he get announced at the E3?
 

Croph

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I wouldn't be surprised if there's going to be a big DLC fighter pack, although I'd still imagine them selling characters/content individually just to have that option available (we do have the Mii Costume and Collection packs, as well as the costumes and Mewtwo being sold individually). Still, there's a lot of ways they could handle DLC, so who knows.

Since Lucas got revealed out already, I wonder what it means to E3 overall incase of Roy and Ryu. We also have to keep an eye on the upcoming update adding Lucas in order to find out if the sound files are still there.
Are you ready for PK... CORRUPTIOOOON!!--

*game implodes*

GODDAMMIT LUCAS!

But yeah, keep any eye out for data miners in case they find some new data added from the upcoming patch (and if it has to do with Roy, the better). And I do hope there won't be any game-breaking glitches this time.
 
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@DJ Nintendo Your Roy was amazing in this video!
Everyone should watch it.

And this is a good tier list, agreed?

Ahhh, Melee Hell. Good times. I used to be one of their biggest frequenters but I've disdained the group for the last four or five months. Good to see Roy still on top. I'm glad I inadvertently created the skilled Roy meme on YouTube.

DJNintendo does so well with Roy's grabs and he makes charged fsmash work every time. So good. Randall is the homie.
 

Tahu Mata

Smash Lord
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This is just speculating, but I think maybe they decided to announce Lucas's release date now so that they can focus entirely on the potential characters that are going to be revealed at E3. I personally think it's going to be Roy, Wolf, and Ryu.

Either way, I'm also really excited for Lucas. He was one of my favorites in Brawl, and I missed the little guy.
 
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