The Lucario Shrine

[Black/Light]

Hes not actually IN Pokemon MD as much as he is refered to. . . .

"Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Lucario is seen as the greatest rescue leader of all time, and his adventures have become legendary. While the player never meets Lucario, Alakazam tells the player that his goal is to become closer to Lucario's greatness. Earning 150,000 Rescue Points will put the player in the top rank- the Lucario rank -at which point the Lucario statue will be displayed outside the rescue base."

But it makes no difference. He, much like Pichu, was known greatly before his gen came out.

 

[Silver Flame]

Fine I have my dates wrong but the point is that there is the chance he will not make it but then again he could have an extra little push since D/P is already out in japan.

 

[kaid]

It'll be out here in april.

 

[Silver Flame]

yes but we don't know if brawl will be out before or after that

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/448.shtml
Lucario's pokedex page on serebii
as you can see, he has quite a range of moves available but pulse bomb being his sig
from these moves, I think Hi jump kick is the best for an up B for sky uppercut is more associated with blaze

brave bird sounds like it would be a good move for blaze, it could be more of a dive in the air
luster cannon as a move for lucario doesn't work so well i think
it seems very simmilar to pulse bomb and lucario needs a tm to learn it anyways

 

[kaid]

Hah! you're deceving yourself if you expect Smash before Thanksgiving.

 

[Silver Flame]

I think it will be out before thanksgiving but I do agree that it will most likely be after D/P

 

[Chickenboy666]

I support both Blaziken and Lucario, but I dunno, I think Lucario has more chances [..has a movie...].
And I support P&M also, but only as replacements of Pichu

 

[Black/Light]

Hah! you're deceving yourself if you expect Smash before Thanksgiving.

. . . .I expect it between late spring and early fall ( at the very least we should have a confirmed release that by spring).

IDK, seems to me like if they expected brawl to come out in late 07 than they wouldn't just say " it comes out sometime in 07", they would say "expect it by Q4 07/ late 07".

Mostly, Sakurai reinforced statements he'd made in the past about his big Wii project. Smash Bros. Brawl will definitely see Japanese release in 2007, he said, although he wouldn't commit to a more specific time frame.

If you ask me they are still planing out their heavy hitters and don't know just when to place everything (does MP:3 have a release date? I don't see both of these coming out in the same Q so if MP is a x-mas game Im sure this will be early fall at the least).

brave bird sounds like it would be a good move for blaze, it could be more of a dive in the air

And it begins! I will slowly yet surely whin people for the automatic "Sky-upper ^B" and onto Brave Bird so people (you know who you are) will stop this "bLazE suPpOrters onlY mAke heR a cLone of otHer chAracteRs moveS"!

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

even if you do give it a unique moveset with something to replace everyones favourite clony moves, it doesnt change the fact that most of her support comes from ignorant noobs. anyway, sky upper could be a fair or a uair...

anyway, i've realised that the reason i dislike blaze for brawl so much is because of the amount of noobs that support her. you know, its kinda like the sonic fanboys making you dislike sonic.

 

[kaid]

Brave Bird has recoil damage. How would you incorporate this?

For that matter, what would the animation be?

Sky upper may seem redundant at first glance, but at least it's describable.

 

[Silver Flame]

How should I know what brave bird looks like, if you want to know then import D/P and PBR and try it out.
recoil is easy, if it hits something it takes a percent of the damage given, pichu already takes recoil from using electric attacks
sky uppercut is blaziken's most logical move for an up b

 

[Black/Light]

Brave Bird has recoil damage. How would you incorporate this?

For that matter, what would the animation be?

Sky upper may seem redundant at first glance, but at least it's describable.

Recoil could be that she takes a small percent of damage only if she hits someone.

And I COULD show you a animation for Brave Bird if YouTubes han't tooken down the D/P shows. But I saw Ash's rival do either Brave Bird or Aerial Ace in their battle. And Im pretty sure that Ash's bird learned brave bird once it evoled like a week or 2 ago.

How would I think it would look (till I get to see that ^^^^ bird evol in the anime)?

Blaz pulls her knees up some than does a strong jump upward and spins, beak first, into the direction you aim. Well doing this attack her "hair/ feather locks" are fully extened to have a somewhat diving bird's wings look to them. And seeing as said attack is flying type I could see her having a floating like fall after it's done.

And Sky-upper might seem more logical but thats because it is one of her greater known sig attacks. She is the only other pokemon that learns brave bird by lev and I would think that the divs would want to keep her attacks completely unique (no look-alike major B attacks).

And F-O. . .
1. Again, prove to me that most Blaze supporters think like that.
2. I don't let the few dum sonic fan-boys change my mind about sonic. . . .

 

[Silver Flame]

I belive that ash's rival had his pokemon use aerial ace. idk about when ash's evolved

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

1. do i need to find clear proof? havnt you realised you are the only person that has logical reasons why blaziken should be in brawl?
2. most people dont, but it does have the power to change alot of people's minds when you are forced to witness their ignorant way of thinking during a long period of time (the sonic fanboy era...)

 

[Black/Light]

1. Please, show me a large amount of Blaze supporters on this forum that use dum "ignorant" reasons? Most Blaze supporters just stay coo, vote and rarly say more than "3nd gen mascot" "Blaziken would be coo" or "I like Blaziken" (on the Nside as well). If you are talking about the Nsider I have one example of how there are a crap load of "ignorant noobs" there for ANY wildly supported character. . . " Lucario shouldn't get in because he would be a M2 clone!!" era (counter to Lucario fans like "blaze would be a falcon clone"). And there are K-Fox fans who mainly say "K-Fox should get in because we need more girls".
Are MOST K-Fox fans dum noobs because some people run around only using "more girls" as a reason? No. The same goes for Lyn.
2. Maybe, just maybe, if you don't want to see such ignorance you should not go to any topic with Sonic in it.

 

[Silver Flame]

havnt you realised you are the only person that has logical reasons why blaziken should be in brawl?

No I haven't cause I'm not. and if you were talking to black/light, well there is two people

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

1. Please, show me a large amount of Blaze supporters on this forum that use dum "ignorant" reasons? Most Blaze supporters just stay coo, vote and rarly say more than "3nd gen mascot" "Blaziken would be coo" or "I like Blaziken" (on the Nside as well). If you are talking about the Nsider I have one example of how there are a crap load of "ignorant noobs" there for ANY wildly supported character. . . " Lucario shouldn't get in because he would be a M2 clone!!" era (counter to Lucario fans like "blaze would be a falcon clone"). And there are K-Fox fans who mainly say "K-Fox should get in because we need more girls".
Are MOST K-Fox fans dum noobs because some people run around only using "more girls" as a reason? No. The same goes for Lyn.

most blaze supporters that state any reason why it should be in brawl post BS. wanting a character because its a girl is different from wanting a character for being a clone.

2. Maybe, just maybe, if you don't want to see such ignorance you should not go to any topic with Sonic in it.

yeah, when the fanboys find themselves in every irrevelent topic to post about their fanboyness, or enter another 3rd party topic just to state their chances compared to sonic. you know, kinda like people comparing blazikens demand compared to every other pokemon.

No I haven't cause I'm not. and if you were talking to black/light, well there is two people

you want to join this now? OK, why do you want blaziken?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Whoa it seems we've got a Pokémon war here at these boards! Silver Flame vs. FiErCe oNi in the Lucario, Dragonite, Goukazaru and Muchlax discussion threads! Pokémon... Serious business.

 

[Black/Light]

most blaze supporters that state any reason why it should be in brawl post BS. wanting a character because its a girl is different from wanting a character for being a clone.

WHO says "I want Blaziken because she would be a clone of falcon"? Most Blaze supporters seem to want Blaziken because of her being seen as the 3rd gen mascott which came from her being so popular amoung pokemon and smash fans in the US/UK. Just because a few may use Falcon kick as a example of fire/ Blaze kick doesn't main the major amount do.

yeah, when the fanboys find themselves in every irrevelent topic to post about their fanboyness, or enter another 3rd party topic just to state their chances compared to sonic. you know, kinda like people comparing blazikens demand compared to every other pokemon

Well, the sonic fans are everywhere which is why I stop reading anything that has "Sonic" as the start of that person's post no matter what the topic is.
And people compare 3rd parties to Sonic and pokemon to Blaziken/ Lucario because they see these characters as the most likely in their areas duo to their fan-base and demand.

 

[Silver Flame]

Not even going to touch dragonite

uh hello, I've been here.

I want blaziken for many reasons
the first and most basic is that I like blaziken. if you don't like the character then there is no point in supporting them.
the second is he works. there are other pokemon I like that it would be fun to play as but I don't even try for I know they don't work. blaziken's humanoid shape works well with smash. fighting type in general works well with smash for they are fighters. Blaziken's fire type allows it to have a lot more diversity than plain fighting type pokemon. he has sig moves like blaze kick and sky uppercut that work well. it is unfortunate that his moves are similar to moves that already in smash. I also feel that he has a decent chance of making it into brawl. the 3rd gen has not had a chance at smash yet and I feel that it is not time for the 4th gen to come to brawl with the exceptions of those few pokemon who have already been released around the world.
I know all of the argument except for the last part aplies to gokuzaru as well.
my most basic reason aginst him is that I hate him. I see him as a rip-off of Blaziken. instead of giving one of the few new fire pokemon and new starters a new type combo they take one that, not only has been used before but it was used for a starter. I think they may have given him fighting so enperuto didn't end up way above the others. also he has no sig but merely takes the sigs of other starters.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

Not even going to touch dragonite

yeah, probably because you cant think of a plausible argument...

uh hello, I've been here.

I want blaziken for many reasons
the first and most basic is that I like blaziken. if you don't like the character then there is no point in supporting them.

there is a point of supporting characters if you dont like them. because they would fit into the game. there are a few characters i could care less for like krystal and FE characters, but it doesnt mean i wont support them. nearly every person has a pokemon they like and know could work, but it doesnt mean they want them for brawl.

the second is he works. there are other pokemon I like that it would be fun to play as but I don't even try for I know they don't work. blaziken's humanoid shape works well with smash. fighting type in general works well with smash for they are fighters.

you're basicaly saying that you support it because of its boring body structure and fighting style. having traits similar to present characters doesnt exactly make a character more plausible. mewtwo doesnt even rely on physical fighting, but its fighting style is awsome. kirby's body structure is barely humanoid but it works and adds uniqueness to the game.

Blaziken's fire type allows it to have a lot more diversity than plain fighting type pokemon. he has sig moves like blaze kick and sky uppercut that work well. it is unfortunate that his moves are similar to moves that already in smash.

why fire type? how about a completely new type that hasnt been introduced yet? its type doesnt add diversity, because all the fire moves that blaziken can do have already been introduced to the game. why have sig moves that already have some sort of form in the game when you can add a character with sig moves that no character has any form of?

I also feel that he has a decent chance of making it into brawl. the 3rd gen has not had a chance at smash yet and I feel that it is not time for the 4th gen to come to brawl with the exceptions of those few pokemon who have already been released around the world.

generations arent everything. nintendo and a whole lot of people couldnt care less if generations were being "represented" by having characters in the game. couldnt they just have pokeball pokemon to represent? whats the big deal? having a gigantic groudon or kyogre come out of a pokeball and deal massive damage is enough to represent the 3rd gen if you ask me. about him having a decent chance for being in 3rd gen anyway even if you do believe that, his chances are lowered for being a starter anyway. (you can argue all you want about it, but it will lower his chances: fact)

I know all of the argument except for the last part aplies to gokuzaru as well.
my most basic reason aginst him is that I hate him. I see him as a rip-off of Blaziken. instead of giving one of the few new fire pokemon and new starters a new type combo they take one that, not only has been used before but it was used for a starter. I think they may have given him fighting so enperuto didn't end up way above the others. also he has no sig but merely takes the sigs of other starters.

you hating it isnt a plausible reason against it. you may be trying to sound like you are angry because it is a rip off, but it sounds to me like you are angry because he is just getting in the way of blaziken's chances by being a cooler version of it. it can do what blaziken can do and more.

 

[Silver Flame]

i'm not touching dragonite because i hadn't even looked at the thread previously and if you look there you will see what I think of Dragonite. I wish I could have made a thread for Blaziken like you did with Dragonite but some fool already made one that wasn't very good and people get mad when you try and put up a topic that already has a thread.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

meh, nvm... i dont get it, someone remade a munchlax thread... i dont see a problem with a new blaziken thread...
if it has some good arguments, i say go ahead. it wont get anyone angry. look at its score on the poll.

 

[Silver Flame]

well if I do It will take some time. Just not going to be able to be on much in the coming weeks

 

[Black/Light]

MEHH!! You just had to say some crap that would step on my Blaze botton. . . .

why fire type? how about a completely new type that hasnt been introduced yet? its type doesnt add diversity, because all the fire moves that blaziken can do have already been introduced to the game.

NO THEY ARNT!
Flare Drive B> (can be a chargable full-body-flame-on (think the human throch) dash across the stage)
Ember B (A multi hit stream of lil fire balls)
Fire Blast B> (Can be a B> where Blaze does a ray of fire that starts it's hit from right in front of her feet and runs like 15ft in front of her. OR Blaze could slide her foot forward and have a huge flare of flames blast out from it)
Over Heat B (you can look at my move-set for that)
Will-o-wisp ? (. . . .IDK what that means but it doesn't sound like a punch/ kick or flamethrower)
Blast Burn Bv ( Could be a full body charge up explodtion that shoots a short, troch like stream of fire up-ward from her body. The exploding fire goes to both sides for a short amount of time. Size, power, time and range increase with time charged)
Fire Spin BV (My move-set again)
There are more but you will say that other characters can do something like them (flamethrower/ Blaze Kick/ Fire punch)

generations arent everything. nintendo and a whole lot of people couldnt care less if generations were being "represented" by having characters in the game. couldnt they just have pokeball pokemon to represent?

How would you know? Nintendo/ Sakurai could think "Maybe, seeing as the R/S games have been out for 3-4 years now, we should try to include pokemon from that time frame. It's the newest WORLD WIDE game from said series (YES, brawl started on 05, characters should be choosen by now so Lucario and a hand full of 4th gen pokemon are the only World Wide known pokemon from a later game than R/S)". Doesn't have to be GEN rep as much as them just using more resent pokemon to choose from.

about him having a decent chance for being in 3rd gen anyway even if you do believe that, his chances are lowered for being a starter anyway. (you can argue all you want about it, but it will lower his chances: fact)

AGAIN, prove something. Not all starters are pokeballed: FACT. And show why you think something BEFORE you say it's fact.

you may be trying to sound like you are angry because it is a rip off, but it sounds to me like you are angry because he is just getting in the way of blaziken's chances by being a cooler version of it. it can do what blaziken can do and more.

1. It's your opinion that hes a cooler Blaze. From the looks of it the is the leasted liked starter from the new gen and is dissliked because he ripped blazys type (everyone wanted a new fire typing).
2. Can the monkey do Brave Bird (sure theres more but Im too tired.)

 

[kaid]

One of the points people bring against Blaze is why him over the other two.

But that's not strictly true. Or rather, by the time brawl comes out, that's not all.

Why him over the other five starters, including another fire starter with the same typing.

 

[Black/Light]

Well, I will say this again, why balze over the other 5? Well you yorself said that the 4th gen starters only have one that works for smash so cross them out.

Now, why her over the other 3? Well, out of the four (3rd gen starters and 4th gen fire starter) Blaze holds, by fare, the highest fan-base amoung the US/UK. Hell, Blazy holds the highest fan-base of any non-movie having pokemon well the others are no where to be seen.

So with such a high domand I can't see people really asking that on a large scale. I mean, they must has thought about the other starters too before picking Blaze to support right?

 

[kaid]

Right now, perhaps, but as others have pointed out, Diamond and Pearl arn't even out here yet. Smash had consistantly been one-game-per-system for 3 generations, which would mean Sakurai's character choices will stand for at least 6 years... and even then, only if Sakurai's successor dares to change or drop ANYTHING Sakurai adds.

And while I disagree with them, the Gokuzaru thread is full of people who prefer the mecha-penguin, even before Diamond and Pearl have reached us. You can't count them out, however much we may wish to.

Blaze the flaming fighter, or Empuruo(sp?) the mecha penguin... which would be more unique? In the end, noone wins... if EITHER gets in, people will complain for the next 6 years or more.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

blaziken is going to lose its popularity to a future cool looking starter at some stage. by then, people are obviously going to demand blaziken to be replaced by it. blaziken really is just a 1 generation starter and it would not be able to maintain its popularity after its generation ends and it never makes any more future appearences. its like the legendarys. does anyone care about entei anymore? its forgotten and being replaced by legendarys of the latest generations. if a pokemon gets added, it should be a pokemon that would be able to maintain popularity for a long time to come. pikachu will always be the pokemon mascot, mewtwo will always be the ultimate artifical pokemon, jigglypuff will always be extremely popular in japan and pichu? i guess it will always be remembered for introducing breeding... but its not important anyway...

 

[Black/Light]

Actually, people will complain for the next 6 years no matter what the out come is. The people that don't want any more pokemon will complain, the people that want Meowth/ Munch/ Riachu will complain if there not in, the people that wanted a Golden Son character will complain if their not in and they will point at pokemon for having so many characters like they do now (Oddly enuff, people on the Nsider LOVE to say "too many pokemon, leave room for other series" and never bat a eye ate the 2 series with more characters than pokemon).

Yeah, people will complain, but if the largest part of the "pokemon wanted for brawl fan-base" is pleased than thats all that can really be done about it.

 

[kaid]

I have a hypothetical question for you.
Would you want Blaze in smash 4? How about smash 5?

Sakurai has said this was his last smash, and Miamoto has said that without Sakurai, they wouldn't have dared make Brawl anything more than Melee-Online.

People want Shiek out because her game is so far gone. How long until the same happens to Blaze? Some feel the same for Jiggs, but she is defended by being one of only 2 multi-jumpers in the game. Can Blaze stand out that much?

And yet, would Sakurai's successor dare remove ANY character, sanctioned by the Master (hand) himself?

 

[Black/Light]

Actually, I think this maybe the last smash. Sakurai said that he wasn't planing/ expecting on doing another smash before they asked him to do brawl (cause he left hal) but he doesn't seem to expect to do another one. (Even the head man of Nintendo says that it's because of Sakurai's connections that smash is so great)

But to go by your question, this really isn't the same thing (Shiek and Blaze). Shiek was defined as being the only Ninja and the only tranformation character BUT she only appeared in one game thats fare gone. . . .Blaze will be in all new pokemon games just as all pokemon are in all games.

Jpuff, people are more so saying the bases to which she got in have moved on towards different pokemon. But many think she should stay and being used the way she is in smash has kept her fan-base for this game high.

Could the same happen to Blaziken? Could Blaziken actually "stand out" that much? Sure, theres not a bone in my body that thinks that they wouldn't try (and succeed) to make Blaze as unique as possible with such moves as I have listed above and a fighting style thats never been in smash if she gets in.
We can also look at M2 as a example. The bases for his appearance have moved to Deoxy and M2 is one of the most hated/ least pro used characters. . . . but only a hand full of people say REPLACE him with Deoxy when they support Deoxy.

 

[kaid]

Blaze is not available in Diamond and Pearl without uploading her from earlier versions, same goes for other starters, and the earlier legendarys.

While you could do it, late game, Blaze isn't naturally in the new game.

 

[Black/Light]

The whole reason they let you trade from older games and update older pokemon is because they want you to be able to have all your fav pokemon in the newest game and be able to "catch em all" all over again.

You know. . . .the main reason behind such a game. . . collecting all the pokemon you can.

Ps, M2 isn't "naturally" in any other game other than R/B/Y and maybe the FR ones.

 

[kaid]

But if you never owned Ruby or saphire, you could play through the entire game, see over 360 pokemon, and never hear of Blaziken.

 

[Black/Light]

Same thing could be said about M2.

And I actually never knew of Deoxy tell I saw his movie and did research on him. . . .played the whole game and never heard of him.

 

[kaid]

Mewtwo has other means of support, having more anime presence than anything except Pikachu himself. 2.5 movies (counting his short) and a few anime episodes is more than even Jiggs can say.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

Same thing with M2.

And I actually never knew of Deoxy tell I saw his movie and did research on him.

mewtwo isnt meant to be remembered only as an extremely powerful pokemon only available in the first game. in the anime, it's the most powerful pokemon and it has human intellect. it is seen as the ultimate uber that cant be tamed, being more like a trainer than a catchable pokemon. besides, mewtwo still is the most popular well known legendary and it will stay that way, being much different from other pokemon.

 

[Black/Light]

Mewtwo has other means of support, having more anime presence than anything except Pikachu himself. 2.5 movies (counting his short) and a few anime episodes is more than even Jiggs can say.

. . . Meowth is the ONLY pokemon thats been in the anime as much as Pika (every anime episode but the first AND Pokemon Chronicals with don't have Pika as the main). Char has had more anime time than M2. And again, Mew has had much more anime appearance than M2. In fact, M2 only has his 2 movies, that specile show of Pokemon: MI and one anime episode. (What short are you counting? The origins "short" was apart of the first movie. . . it was the beginning but they thought it was too dark for the US and cut it out)And if we want to talk movies and anime, Blaze has had more anime episodes (4 in a row, than 2 in a row) with a nice chunk of the Deoxy movie.

So Im assuming that if someone thats just started playing pokemon and never knew of the 3rd gen wouldn't have actually seen the first movies if thats the case.

I actually don't know what your arguing, if they are just now playing pokemon because the wheren't around to see the 3rd gen than why would they have seen the 1st movies. . . . wouldn't they have somehow seen Deoxy movie which has Blaze if they are looking at movies?

Also, the starters are, just ast the legendaries and the few mascotts, the most known pokemon of their gen. Any nintendo fan can point them out or known of them in some why.

^^^Thats not what I was talking about F-O. . . .

 

[kaid]

In that movie, Blaze is a cameo. In his movies, Mewtwo is a title character.

And many who have not seen Lucario and the Mystery of Mew STILL consider Mewtwo Strikes Back the only half decent pokemon movie EVER.

And you cannot enter the annals of high-level pokeplay (and with online play, that's going to be more and more common) without learning about Ubers and their posterchild, Mewtwo.