The Little Witch of Diamond City - Ashley - The Witch retreats. For now.

Kyon9898

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We know it was a long shot, and we had a lot of fun supporting the character, Ashley will remain our pick for any Smash game. We get to fight another day, and half the fun is supporting your characters.

We'll still enjoy Smash Bros, and we'll always have our Ashley to look forward to. I think her popularity has only grown and people are more aware of her character as a whole. I'm happy for you K.rool fans, you guys have been very vocal since brawl, and we were since Smash 4, well, post-Smash 4, so I have no doubt we have a great chance for the next game.

And we might get more Ashley along the way too~
 
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Ultimately (heh) I think Ashley just wasn't seen as high priority enough, despite her popularity. She's a side character in a lower profile Nintendo series.

Look at who we have in terms of unique fighters:

Inkling: The star of Nintendo's most successful new IP since Animal Crossing. Obvious moveset potential out the wazoo. The biggest shoe-in ever.
Ridley: The main villain of Metroid, an iconic Nintendo IP that has been around since the NES, has been in Smash in some capacity in every game, one of the most popular character requests of the last decade and a half.
Simon Belmont: De facto mascot of a well-regarded third party IP with decades of history, arguably the most notable third party to originate on the NES after Mega Man. A pretty common, if not overwhelming, request since the Brawl era.
King K. Rool: The main villain of Donkey Kong, an iconic Nintendo IP, arguably the most requested Nintendo newcomer post-Brawl worldwide... you see where I'm going with this, much like Ridley. If insider sources are correct, Nintendo plans to bring back K. Rool into the spotlight and is using Smash as a launching pad for that.

These four fighters have set an incredibly high precedent. In a game where newcomer spots are already limited, it's obvious you have to be extremely prestigious to get in. That's not a knock on Ashley; so many great characters unfortunately do not meet this bar.

I am not ruling out DLC at this time. I only ask for now that people who are rightfully disappointed do not take it out on who is already in the game, because this is a star studded cast and no character should feel snubbed when the competition is so insanely tight.
Exactly, the fact that Ashley was even considered a serious contender in this Smash Brothers alongside those gaming titans is a honor.
 

zferolie

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1:1 means the skeleton, not just the model purely. Chrom has the same proportions, but with different animations. Skeletons can move in different directions via animation. Chrom also proves that Echoes can have a few unique things, as long as they copy a move from a character with the same body shape. His Up B is a retool of Ike's Aether and his Up Tilt is Marth's. Roy, Marth, Ike, and Chrom all share the same body shape(Roy and Chrom share the same proportions). Though it does tie into what Bill said. He said they had to have the same proportions(this is still true), same weight, same speed, and same general stats. He didn't say they can't borrow a move from another near identical body-shaped character. I do thing he might have something off, mind you.

A lot seem to mix up the model bit, but when people say model, they're more referring to how the skeletons are the same. This is poor communication, including on my part. Apologies for that. But they still are the same skeleton regardless.

Either way, the only video we have of Isabelle over Villager looks like completely ***. She has a completely different set of proportions and is stretched to fix the moveset. The muscles actually would not affect anything animation-wise. As shown by Ganondorf and Falcon, who got in due to having a near identical skeleton to him. I know it's an odd example, but one has way more muscles and it affected nothing.

We also know their idle animations never had to be identical. Dark Pit and Lucina were confirmed last second, which is why we don't see more unique stuff from them like Chrom, Dark Samus, etc.
I think if isabelle gets added, she would get a new model, same as CHrom and Dark samus got new models. I could see they, if the make isabelle an echo, give her a new model to fit the villager skeleton.

But thats enough about her. this is the Ashley thread! I still have a feeling we are missing something. till we see her in an actully in a game, or the site says shes an assist trophy, then its completely dead. Its a 95% chance she is still an assist trophy, but keeping a slight chance there
 

Kyon9898

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It was truly an honor to be apart of the likes of Ridley and K.Rool. Ashley has been a highly expected character this time around, how many people can say that? hehe, glad we'll always get to cheer for our underdog Ashley!

We'll fight 100 times, we get to fight another day! I'm thankful I got to meet all of you, and this is no goodbye, but only the beginning!
 

zferolie

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What if it was a fake assist? We know there is a fake theme going on with fake smash balls and ditto the doppelganger mon. Just thought I’d throw that out there. Not saying it’s likely, but it’s still there thematically
I actually made a post on the last page about that theory. the whole assist reveal felt off. its below


Ok... I might be going into conspiracy theories here, but something has been bugging me since seeing her in the direct. It was at first with them not showing her name, when every other assist shown for the first time. So I went back and looked at her.. then I had to look at her in Smash for wii U, when I noticed something.



Her eyes are a different color. Heck, she seems to have gotten a completely different and new model. No other returning assist trophy I believe has gotten that either. So why did they do it just for her? Actually, 1 other AT in Smash 4 got a new model... Dark Samus.

Now, full tin foil hat time guys... what if this wasn't showing off an Ashley assist trophy... but of another assist trophy that turns into characters that are no longer assist trophies and does their moves. A dopleganger character, like Dooplis from Paper mario or something, that then transforms into old assist trophies as its gimick. A way to keep the old assist trophies in the game without removing or losing their effects. Sakurai seems to be focusing on keeping as much as possible from old games, so this would fit. Other characters it would transform into would be Little mac and Dark samus, and if things go as it seems Isabelle and Shadow. Then also if in DLC Sakurai turns more assist trophies into characters, then they are removed from the normal list, and placed into this characters assist trophy.

I know, this is out there, and I may be pulling at straws, but the way they revealed Ashley, plus her being the only returning assist with a fully new and updated model just seems completely off and I feel should be noted.
 
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That would be crazy, man. Like it was a fake out since so many people expected her to be playable they just threw in a port of her assist for the direct. Far out there thinking, but I like it!
I still have hope, because I know it’s not above Sakurai to pull the long con. Like dferolie said, it could just be doopliss from paper mario
 
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StormC

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I still have hope, because I know it’s not above Sakurai to pull the long con. Like dferolie said, it could just be doopliss from paper mario
Sakurai doesn't really have a history of pulling "the long con." If he ever "tricks" fans, he usually reveals his hand right after.

Don't get trapped in the same cycle Ridley fans did with the shadow in Smash 4.
 

StormC

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Let me put it this way, as a K. Rool supporter, I lost my **** when the costume was announced for Smash 4. I was up all night rageposting in his thread. I went out at like 2 AM to the gas station to buy tons of candy to try to assuage my hurt feelings. I considered it a hard deconfirmation. I felt betrayed.

If only I had known Sakurai was already turning the gears on his inclusion in the next Smash...

That's why you guys have to keep going. We know Ridley got in because of "outcry from fans," that likely was not entirely ballot related due to his presence in Smash 4 dissuading voters. Treehouse at E3 confirmed they check forums and social media for Smash talk. Don't set yourself up for disappointment by hoping she's in the base game, but continue your momentum and make sure Nintendo can't ignore you like they couldn't ignore K. Ridley.
 
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Please, As much as I want the conspiracy to be true, we must focus our attention on actual support rather than conspiracy theories. If Ashley was indeed tossed into the direct due to her groundswell of support last minute, that only means good things and means we have to keep that momentum going and we can maybe increase her chances for DLC.
 
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Chinderblock

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I'd also like to point out Ashley isn't showcased in Smash Bros's assist category despite being high profile. Something doesn't match up, but goddamit this is out there thinking and can't help myself but like it.

We sound pretty crazy, and yeah, you're right. Though it would be an amazing twist, no doubt.
The only AT's and Pokeballs on the site were outright showcased with a name in directs. So her not being on the site yet is due to the fact she wasn't literally called one in the direct. At least, that's the most logical reason.

I think if isabelle gets added, she would get a new model, same as CHrom and Dark samus got new models. I could see they, if the make isabelle an echo, give her a new model to fit the villager skeleton.

But thats enough about her. this is the Ashley thread! I still have a feeling we are missing something. till we see her in an actully in a game, or the site says shes an assist trophy, then its completely dead. Its a 95% chance she is still an assist trophy, but keeping a slight chance there
I doubt she will get a new model myself, but that's fair. My original thought is the Echoes will still be last minute, but I doubt that's the case now. Richter shows that. He was clearly added the same time as Simon due to 3rd party licensing factors.

However, it's a matter of Sakurai wanting her to be an Echo or not. It seems pointless to do in the first place when the only issue with AC is Villager doesn't cover all the aspects of the series. Just the core gameplay(gathering items, using them). So her using him as a base and having a more unique moveset seems way more likely to me. But yeah, the argument her current model can be used as 1:1 is bad. Her getting a new model? Fair.
 

FooltheFlames

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So I strongly believe that a lot of this game is influenced by the Ballot.

So that brings us to Ashley. I don't think she made it to the top 10.
Yeah I believe so by this point too. It definitely explains Ridley and K.Rool. my problem tho is, no one ever told Ridley fans he can't be playable becuz he's a stage boss, but everyone loves to tell you that Ashley can never be playable becuz she's an assist trophy. Like, what is it with this bias against AT's? It's some kind of crazy fan made rule that has stretched out it's ugly influence to fresher players of Smash Bros. I think this weird mindset hurt her votes in the last ballot A LOT. :c
So I believe now, as real diehard Ashley fans, we have to get the word out there that Assist Trophies can still become playable characters like what happened with Little Mac. We have to get rid of that mindset in people and go crazy when/and if there's a new ballot concerning DLC/Smash 6

If not Ashley, who are the other 8 in the top ten out of Ridley and K.Rool in your opinion? Cuz I personally don't think they were Chrom or Dark Samus (and Bayo definitely wasn't in the top ten lol :rollseyes:
Do you guys think SK possibly being planned for Ultimate would have made Ashley a less interesting pick at the time? Should the next Smash include Skull Kid again, would it close the door for Ashley as a possible fighter in the future?
If anything I see her and/or SK/Geno being revealed at the same time. Not one hurting the others chances.
So we get one or two more 'Spooky' reps. So what? We got too many 'Big Angry Lizard' characters now! Bowser, Ridley, K.Rool... all big reptilian boss bad guy characters. All heavy weight villains... we can throw a cute little light weight spell casting witch in the mix for some variety can't we?
Cause I understand for him it’s a now-or-never situation, he may never get another chance to be in Smash while Ashley and Takamaru likely will have their chances eventually, plus characters like Isabelle and Dark Samus were probably easy to make and didn’t cause much strain on the development team (If Isabelle is unique though I’ll be very confused)
YES! Ashley will make to Smash one day but I'm worried about Zelda characters like Skull Kid and Midna...
and yeah, chrom and dark samus were so easy and brain dead to make im not excited about them at all.. What kills me the most is sakurai toting how they were 'so highly requested derp derp' while completely snubbing Ashley and her now Huge Fanbase. Like, really Daddy Sakurai? You disappoint me yet again with your blue haired swordsman bias T_T
Yeah, currently with everything this game has shown, it is a 9.5/10 for me, having both Ashley and Geno would make it a perfect 10.
I think she'd be a perfect fit for a Mario spin-off series! Kinda like Mario Kart, though I hope she isn't treated like Rosalina and made into a pretty enthusiastic girl who screams "All right!" when doing tricks, lol.
I think that's part of the reason devs find it hard to implement her into other games. Like, they are surely aware of her popularity, but they don't want to end up giving her too much spunky energy along with all the other mario characters and ruin her character. Can you imagine her in Mario Party acting like Daisy? "HI I'M ASHLEY!" :rotfl: She works with something like badge arcade splendidly, becuz she can remain stationary. It's just hard to get her doing things with her still acting like she's not too emotionally invested and involved/interested in it, which has always been a part of her secret shy side..

I mean, she has all the potential in the world for a unique moveset, but maybe Sakurai is just stumped on implementing that and having her still remain 'Ashley like' ???
 
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At this point, all of our fan theories are taking a shot in the dark, now we just have to wait and see what happens for the remaining months. If by some luck she is included due to incredible recent fan demand, it would probably delay the release date a bit.
Nah. Waiting's the last thing we should be doing. It's campaigning that we should be doing. A chance exists, and that's the chance we should be aiming for.
 

Kyon9898

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DLC is still in the cards, being an assist shouldn't really hinder her being added. Hopefully, we'll have another ballot to show our support once more, but yeah, everything from here is a shot in the dark.

We need to stay more open to any idea! And this time, we might have way more supports as well. It isn't a question of if Ashley will be in smash, it's a matter of when she'll be.
 
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Nah. Waiting's the last thing we should be doing. It's campaigning that we should be doing. A chance exists, and that's the chance we should be aiming for.
You’re completely right about that. The odds are in her favor right now, seeing as she’s becoming the new K. Rool, as every other possible fan requested character (other than deconfirmed ones) are most likely in the game. Hopefully campaigning is enough to get her in alongside the Nintendo and third party all star cast we already have.
 

Kyon9898

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Exactly, we should continue to stay vocal. I am pretty sure Nintendo is well aware of how popular Ashley is, the poll "Wario" held awhile ago Ashley crushed it, so I'm sure they are aware how popular she is.

We'll always ask for Ashley to join the next Smash Bros! and even this one too. I wonder what else the future holds for Ashley. I can't wait to find out~
 

FooltheFlames

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Team Lloyd offers its condolences and looks forward to seeing you next time around.

That's so sweet... you seriously made me tear up a bit there! ;__;
Ultimately (heh) I think Ashley just wasn't seen as high priority enough, despite her popularity. She's a side character in a lower profile Nintendo series.

I only ask for now that people who are rightfully disappointed do not take it out on who is already in the game, because this is a star studded cast and no character should feel snubbed when the competition is so insanely tight.
AHEM. I have to correct you on one thing here. She is neither a side character nor a tertiary character- she is a breakout character! I equate her to Harley Quinn who originated from Batman. Harley didn't appear in the very 1st Batman comic, just like Ashley didn't appear in the 1st WarioWare game. Harley was originally just a secondary character to the Joker, designated to be his one time sidekick in a 90's Saturday morning cartoon show. But she has since evolved to appear in many different forms of media as her own main character, with a huge fan following. The fact that Batman started back in the 1930's didn't curb her growing popularity at all, and nothing is stopping Ashley at this point from soon becoming her very own. I could even see her getting her own symbol to represent her by Smash 6~ Embarrass

Yeah I've been on Gamefaqs and other sites as of late doing damage control by reminding other younger Ashley fans of this very same thing. Of how folly and childish it is to blame other characters for the lack of your own favorite not making it in. (yet :smirk:)
I know I didn't have to do any damage control here becuz this is the most mature Ashley fan board around~ :bee:
At this point, all of our fan theories are taking a shot in the dark, now we just have to wait and see what happens for the remaining months. If by some luck she is included due to incredible recent fan demand, it would probably delay the release date a bit.
Prolly in the unpopular opinion here but I wouldn't mind a delay as long as it means Ashley gets added to the base roster. But please don't rush her character Sakurai!
 
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Are some of the Pumpkin Panic gallery images new? They have her Gold design, which I'm pretty sure wasn't available during her Badge Arcade run.

Tin-foil trailer idea time!

A fighter is getting their butt kicked by Rathalos, he's about to deliver a decisive fire blast... but it's blocked by someone. The camera focuses on his or her feet, revealing Rathalos greaves. Monster Hunter!... until the signature twintails pop out from Ashley's helmet, prompting her to shed her disguise for her traditional clothing. Cue gameplay. (Later on a real Monster Hunter comes by and shrug gestures at the situation before getting revealed in turn).
 

Kyon9898

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I hope WarioWare comes to Switch, we could use even more exposer to Ashley. She's got what it takes to become even more popular. She's still the most popular WarioWare character, excluding Wario himself just cause he's been around longer and a stable of Mario Spin-offs.

If we make our voices heard enough maybe we'll have a better chance! Also DLC isn't really all that out of the question.
 

FooltheFlames

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Ultimately, I find it hard to mourn (well, whatever you want to call it), when there is work to be done to convince people that Ashley should be next in line. The fire isn't dead, the pantalones have merely intensified, haha.

I've been thinking of a way to get the little moveset I made for Ashley a little more public. If I can get better at digital art and whatnot, I might try and animate it and make a YouTube video about it. Not because I think I'm a genius, or anything, mind you, but because I'd love to get my idea out there and see if we could get Nintendo's attention.

It also wouldn't do us any harm to pay a little more attention to what exactly the Ridley and K. Rool fans did to garner the attention they did. Their characters had larger hurdles than Ashley does, and yet, here we are.
I think that's a great idea! ^^
I'm gonna try the same with my moveset too~
 

LimeTH

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Don't let anyone tell you to "stop being ungrateful and just be happy she's in the game at all". Because yeah, sure, thats totally what the Ridley and K Rool fans did, right? No. Get out there and get loud. While I don't believe she's a fakeout, DLC is always a possibility.
 
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Don't let anyone tell you to "stop being ungrateful and just be happy she's in the game at all". Because yeah, sure, thats totally what the Ridley and K Rool fans did, right? No. Get out there and get loud. While I don't believe she's a fakeout, DLC is always a possibility.
The heck? Smash is a product and like any other consumer we can complain when it doesn't meet out liking. I never got why people would ever say just to be grateful like it honestly offends the people who made the game.
 
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Nimbostratus

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I am interested in getting a better look at Ashley's new AT model. Not because of some "fake out" theory or anything, but whether it is high res enough to potentially be used as a base for DLC. In the same way that Echoes save time during development, having a quality model on hand might save enough effort to entice the developers to consider upgrading them. The moveset and balancing is a bigger deal than the model, but it's more than nothing. The Smash 4 AT models weren't quite good enough with those fake fingers and such, but the ones in this game might be improved. Ashley's looks better, but I'm having a hard time saying that confidently. The updates are more extensive than just the eye color, right? An analysis of changes would be helpful.

I agree with previous comments that upgrading an Assist Trophy or two as DLC would be a fantastic marketing ploy. Instead of Assist Trophy segments in Directs for future games being awaited with dread, people would view being AT'ed as just a setback, and potentially even an avenue for the characters to get in down the road. It's still a disappointment for characters seen as likely, sure, but it's more like seawater levels of salt instead of Dead Sea concentrations. For long shot characters who get the AT treatment, their fans would be thrilled to see that they have hope at all.
 

ToilerMoiler

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I've been scoping out other forums such as GameFAQs and Reddit ( I don't really bother with 4chan) to see what others are saying. It's looking pretty good that other user's over there are accepting the idea of Ashley being in DLC.
Seems we're making decent progress so far, let's keep it up
 

Leehzart

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I made this chart in order to see how all the assist have been revealed, and also I added which one have been already feature on the blog and on the website.


Color TV, Dr Kawashima, Dr Wright, Ghirahim, Hammer Bro, Mother Brain, Samurai Goroh, Sheriff, Starman and Takamaru were present in the demo so there is actual proof that they are assist trophies. Which means Ashley is the only one that is still pending, which is really odd. So I won't accept that she is an assist until I see her coming out of the assist capsule!

Also another thing I consider is that maybe Sakurai wants to bring every assist trophy to the game, kinda like the everyone is here! So maybe the Little Mac and Dark Samus assist return. In that case Ashley can be a fighter and an assist.

Finally before someone mention it, this is not false hope, this is not going to hurt even more, I know what I'm doing, Ashley is one of my favorite Nintendo characters, and theorizing about her and Smash are one of my favorite things, and I do enjoy sharing ideas with other people who really like Ashley like me. That does not mean I going to stop supporting her because I know she is in. I'm working in a lot of fanarts to help her inclusion as DLC. I just think that maybe if we keep the theories we can gather more attention and support from other people, it worked for Ridley.
 
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I made this chart in order to see how all the assist have been revealed, and also I added which one have been already feature on the blog and on the website.


Color TV, Dr Kawashima, Dr Wright, Ghirahim, Hammer Bro, Mother Brain, Samurai Goroh, Sheriff, Starman and Takamaru were present in the demo so there is actual proof that they are assist trophies. Which means Ashley is the only one that is still pending, which is really odd. So I won't accept that she is an assist until I see her coming out of the assist capsule!

Also another thing I consider is that maybe Sakurai wants to bring every assist trophy to the game, kinda like the everyone is here! So maybe the Little Mac and Dark Samus assist return. In that case Ashley can be a fighter and an assist.

Finally before someone mention it, this is not false hope, this is not going to hurt even more, I know what I'm doing, Ashley is one of my favorite Nintendo characters, and theorizing about her and Smash are one of my favorite things, and I do enjoy sharing ideas with other people who really like Ashley like me. That does not mean I going to stop supporting her because I know she is in. I'm working in a lot of fanarts to help her inclusion as DLC. I just think that maybe if we keep the theories we can gather more attention and support from other people, it worked for Ridley.
It worked for Ridley because He's also a much bigger character, but even he became public enemy number 1 due to the conspiracy theories. What helped Ridley was the continued fan dedication to the character. Same with K Rool. It's also the same we have to do for Ashley, which I'm stoked that you are doing so. The conspiracy theories, though, can stay here. I've already seen people try to start them in other communities that ended in annoyance by the general smash community.
 
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Yeah, you could give the information to any Ashley supporters who want to help run it, but give it to trusted members only.
Dont forget there is an Ashely discord
Yeah of course we're gonna promote the Ashley discord. Now what do we name this account? Just "Ashley for Smash", "Ashley for Ultimate", Ashley Fan Page"?
 
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