The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


Results are only viewable after voting.

LukeRNG

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So... I don't think they'll just reuse Gen 8 spirits for the spirit board if it happens. Sure it happened with Ninjara and Ribbon Girl, but they were only summonable prior to this, not fully fledged battles. So basically, it was all new stuff anyways, so the SWSH board might just all be new things.
Depending on which pokemon is picked, the Zacian/Zamazenta & starters could be reused. And if not then i can see them using Corviknight & Morpecko given their popularity from gen 8.
But if they can afford to have all new spirits, then that'll be it.

What is everyone expecting from tomorrow? Is whatever new they show really going to be a "big project" as they said?
 
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Staarih

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They probably wanted this to be separate because of the Tencent/TiMi co-operation. Extremely neutral on this, but the dislike ratio in the reveal trailer is hilarious.
 
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Unite is something that probably should've been stuck with the other announcements last week, but I do think people are being too critical. A lot of the complaints aren't even directed toward the game itself. People didn't want a whole Direct just for this.
Indeed, the game itself looks quite fun. I just hope we have a more unique roster than, Gen 1 army, Lucario, and Talonflame.
 

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Unite is something that probably should've been stuck with the other announcements last week, but I do think people are being too critical. A lot of the complaints aren't even directed toward the game itself. People didn't want a whole Direct just for this.
Thing is, it probably was meant for last week's event, but something caused a delay. Notice how the intro and outro sections were filmed in a much less staged environment, as if they didn't anticipate having to do that?

But, it's on its own now, at the mercy of some reeeally overhyped expectations. Were that many people seriously expecting Sinnoh remakes here when 1) we already have a mainline project this year (the SwSh expansions, taking the place of a third version), and 2) we've never had mainline titles be announced this late in a year?

Personally, I'm just...neutral on Unite. Could turn out really fun if they pull it off, but I've never been able to get into MOBAs before, and I'm wary of this partnership with Tencent considering their history. But, if TPC has most of the autonomy here, they keep regularly updating and improving it, and we get more playable mons that aren't 80% from Gen 1, it has some real potential.

For now, we turn our attention back to Smash and to the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra.
 
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LukeRNG

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I was wondering how a trailer for the pkemn newcomer would be like if it takes the Terry & Min Min approach: have multiple pokemon fight for the invitation.

We'd have: Rillaboom, Inteleon, Cinderace Toxtricity, Dragapult, Zacian, etc. fighting for the invitation in the wild.
 

Cosmic77

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Welcome. Glad to have your support.

I was wondering how a trailer for the pkemn newcomer would be like if it takes the Terry & Min Min approach: have multiple pokemon fight for the invitation.

We'd have: Rillaboom, Inteleon, Cinderace Toxtricity, Dragapult, Zacian, etc. fighting for the invitation in the wild.
A trailer like that would be nice, but I have a feeling it'll end up being a straightforward, "This is who the newcomer is," reveal.

It'd be nice if it referenced the games a little more. Maybe have a bunch of Smash characters fighting Eternatus, only for Zacian or Zamazenta to swoop in and receive their intro tagline.
 

LukeRNG

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Welcome. Glad to have your support.



A trailer like that would be nice, but I have a feeling it'll end up being a straightforward, "This is who the newcomer is," reveal.

It'd be nice if it referenced the games a little more. Maybe have a bunch of Smash characters fighting Eternatus, only for Zacian or Zamazenta to swoop in and receive their intro tagline.
If they don't go for Eternatus, they could do Dharkon again like with Hero's trailer.

I don't see why it's so hated. The game itself dosen't look half bad.
I just discovered why: Tencent actually is a horrible company.
 
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Cosmic77

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I just discovered why: Tencent actually is a horrible company.
That doesn't fully explain it either. We've known this was coming for a long time, and we knew Tencent was making the game. Quite a few people were actually intrested in this project.

A lot of this boils down to people being mad that this got a separate Direct and that the announcement wasn't a DP remake or Let's Go games for the Johto region. Not sure why people thought we would've gotten either of those things so soon when they're still finishing Crown Tundra. Best outcome I saw was a third DLC pack for SwSh.
 
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That doesn't fully explain it either. We've known this was coming for a long time, and we knew Tencent was making the game. Quite a few people were actually intrested in this project.

A lot of this boils down to people being mad that this got a separate Direct and that the announcement wasn't a DP remake or Let's Go games for the Johto region. Not sure why people thought we would've gotten either of those things so soon when they're still finishing Crown Tundra. Best outcome I saw was a third DLC pack for SwSh.
More specifically TiMi Studios, a subsidiary: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...as_an_unprecedented_opportunity_and_challenge

I prefer to follow the advice of a wise Zora elder from Breath of the Wild: condemn the action and not the person. It's telling how quickly the tension in comments for this article died down compared to the initial announcement; a number of people, MOBA players in particular are interested.

If nothing else, the game looks like it can be a more accessible introduction to the otherwise intimidating to approach genre, regardless of how deep it proves to be compared to it's peers.
 

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That doesn't fully explain it either. We've known this was coming for a long time, and we knew Tencent was making the game. Quite a few people were actually intrested in this project.

A lot of this boils down to people being mad that this got a separate Direct and that the announcement wasn't a DP remake or Let's Go games for the Johto region. Not sure why people thought we would've gotten either of those things so soon when they're still finishing Crown Tundra. Best outcome I saw was a third DLC pack for SwSh.
-I did see plenty of people didn't know about the collab between Pokemon and Tencent, which immediatly turned them off after seeing Tencent's "problematic" background.
-People were looking too much into the background of the last presents, which had plushies of Johto pokemon. I even saw people say such ridiculous things like: "the dark Pikachu Figure means pokemon Colosseum". And it didn't help that people didn't want to support SwSh and were hoping blindly for anything new.
-I did notice that Tencent owns the devs that make League of Legends. So it'll be interesting to see how similar Pokemon Unite is to League.
 
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Cosmic77

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We've had a few days to digest the ARMS presentation. Good news is that people seem to think SwSh has a decent chance of getting in. Not sure how long this'll last, but we might as well enjoy it while we can and share our ideas.

Sadly, seems like Zacian and Zamazenta are still being overlooked. Even if SwSh is getting more discussion, the fanbase is still predicting the same characters, namely Cinderace and Urshifu. It's a little disappointing, but maybe things will change in the future. Seems like the three Legendaries will have an important role in the anime.
 

LukeRNG

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We've had a few days to digest the ARMS presentation. Good news is that people seem to think SwSh has a decent chance of getting in. Not sure how long this'll last, but we might as well enjoy it while we can and share our ideas.

Sadly, seems like Zacian and Zamazenta are still being overlooked. Even if SwSh is getting more discussion, the fanbase is still predicting the same characters, namely Cinderace and Urshifu. It's a little disappointing, but maybe things will change in the future. Seems like the three Legendaries will have an important role in the anime.
Last gen pokemon like Lycanroc were definitely being overlooked by most outside of it's support thread. They think starters have become easy shoe-ins, even though it's only been true for the last 2 games. I'd say pokemon trainer is a special case.

I'd still expect people will continue to overlook the doggos, manly because they see them as unexpected (as we've never had the box art legendaries as playable and they probably don't have much faith in quadruped fighters unless it's Amaterasu) and don't want to go out of their comfort zone.
 

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I'd still expect people will continue to overlook the doggos, manly because they see them as unexpected (as we've never had the box art legendaries as playable and they probably don't have much faith in quadruped fighters unless it's Amaterasu) and don't want to go out of their comfort zone.
10 pokemon and only one legendary

thats better that a lot of the other groups
 
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Delzethin

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We've had a few days to digest the ARMS presentation. Good news is that people seem to think SwSh has a decent chance of getting in. Not sure how long this'll last, but we might as well enjoy it while we can and share our ideas.

Sadly, seems like Zacian and Zamazenta are still being overlooked. Even if SwSh is getting more discussion, the fanbase is still predicting the same characters, namely Cinderace and Urshifu. It's a little disappointing, but maybe things will change in the future. Seems like the three Legendaries will have an important role in the anime.
Every damn time, I swear. Every time a new round of newcomer speculation kicks off, most of the community picks a small handful of characters to focus on and hardly diverges from them at all. Only seems to change if either a new game is announced to shake things up or a rumor (even an easily disproven one) grows popular enough to get people talking about a character mentioned in it. I've spent years trying to figure out how to break through that, but all I've ever been able to reach are niche crowds.

It gets especially bad with franchises like Pokémon that have several viable options with each major new entry, because the Smash community will often focus on characters for the wrong reasons. Right now, we're seeing Cinderace (because it's the "obvious shillmon"), Rillaboom (to have a complete starter trio), Urshifu (to "promote" the Isle of Armor DLC), and Toxtricity (because it got popular outside the Pokémon fandom). Hardly anyone else beyond that even has the chance to be associated with the idea of getting into Smash, and it's inordinately difficult to change that. We're seeing newcomer speculation surrounding a game be dictated by people outside its own fanbase, and it's...frustrating.

Reminds me of how things went down during Smash 4 speculation. Talk surrounding Gen 6 revolved around people assuming they'd just bring Mewtwo back and work the Mega forms in somehow--none of the actual Gen 6 mons were taken seriously. Talk surrounding Fire Emblem Awakening was railroaded by people outside the FE fandom assuming Chrom was the only possible option, while actual Fire Emblem fans were pretty evenly split between Chrom and Robin (with at-the-time niche picks like Lucina, Anna, etc. showing up sometimes as well).

If we're going to be able to change anything here, I think the key will be reaching those who are fans of Pokémon first who also happen to follow Smash news. I've seen far more variance in the characters actual Pokémon fans have wanted. Zacian and Zamazenta themselves have even been brought up a few times elsewhere already, including by the founder of Serebii himself. Is there some way to tap into what isolated patches of interest there are and unite them?

While it wouldn't have any actual effect on who the Smash team chooses, it would be nice to not feel like outcasts nor be treated like non-entities so damn often.

Last gen pokemon like Lycanroc were definitely being overlooked by most outside of it's support thread. They think starters have become easy shoe-ins, even though it's only been true for the last 2 games. I'd say pokemon trainer is a special case.
Alas. Nothing like having a character wind up in literally the same position in the anime that Greninja had in Gen 6, while offering not only a unique build for a fighter but also elemental powers that are to this day completely untapped by the current roster...and get almost completely dismissed by speculators because they'd decided you had to be a starter to have a real shot. Even though we had multiple non-starters in Smash already. Even though they made an exception to their own rule with Mimikyu because it also got popular outside its home fandom.

It's just...damn it, people, we can do better than be so...exclusionary.

Don't mind me. I'm okay. Just...still some lingering frustration there.
 
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Cosmic77

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Every damn time, I swear. Every time a new round of newcomer speculation kicks off, most of the community picks a small handful of characters to focus on and hardly diverges from them at all. Only seems to change if either a new game is announced to shake things up or a rumor (even an easily disproven one) grows popular enough to get people talking about a character mentioned in it. I've spent years trying to figure out how to break through that, but all I've ever been able to reach are niche crowds.
I wouldn't dwell on it too much. Based on the conversations I've seen so far, it's clear that a large number of the people predicting Cinderace, Urshifu, and/or Rillaboom aren't putting much effort into their research, and it doesn't seem like they have any desire to try.

Their reasoning for Cinderace doesn't go much farther than, "That's who they're pushing in the anime," even though that's also the only one of the three starter lines to have officially debuted in the anime. It's easy to win a race with no opponents. Give Urshifu another three months or so, then people will start claiming Calyrex is the Pokemon they'd add. Rillaboom is less prediction and more personal want. The logic they're using for Cinderace contradicts Rillaboom.

If we're going to be able to change anything here, I think the key will be reaching those who are fans of Pokémon first who also happen to follow Smash news. I've seen far more variance in the characters actual Pokémon fans have wanted. Zacian and Zamazenta themselves have even been brought up a few times elsewhere already, including by the founder of Serebii himself. Is there some way to tap into what isolated patches of interest there are and unite them?

While it wouldn't have any actual effect on who the Smash team chooses, it would be nice to not feel like outcasts nor be treated like non-entities so damn often.
If you have any ideas you'd like to try, go ahead by all means. Even if it doesn't result in Zacian and Zamazenta being taken more seriously, at least we'd potentiality have more supporters. We wouldn't feel as isolated.
 
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Brodemmars

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Their reasoning for Cinderace doesn't go much farther than, "That's who they're pushing in the anime," even though that's also the only one of the three starter lines to have officially debuted in the anime. It's easy to win a race with no opponents.
Hold up, I don’t mean to butt in but there’s more to it than just that. We believe that Cinderace is the Gen 8 starter that TPC wants to spotlight the most for the following additional reasons:

Getting 2 signature moves as a starter and interestingly enough both Greninja and Incineroar also had 2 signature moves when they debuted.

Cinderace's Pyroball having the better base damage and the most amount of effort put into its animation, at least compared to the other 2 starters.

Getting a Hidden Ability that’s functionally the same as Greninja’s

Also (for those who cared about such things) it’s really popular. Scorbunny and Cinderace tend to score high on popularity polls.

So you see it’s not hard to believe that TPC would want to add Cinderace seeing how they have been giving the Scorbunny line special treatment in both the games and Anime.
 
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Cosmic77

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Hold up, I don’t mean to butt in but there’s more to it than just that. We believe that Cinderace is the Gen 8 starter that TPC wants to spotlight the most for the following additional reasons:

Getting 2 signature moves as a starter and interestingly enough both Greninja and Incineroar also had 2 signature moves when they debuted.

Cinderace's Pyroball having the better base damage and the most amount of effort put into its animation, at least compared to the other 2 starters.

Getting a Hidden Ability that’s functionally the same as Greninja’s

Also (for those who cared about such things) it’s really popular. Scorbunny and Cinderace tend to score high on popularity polls.

So you see it’s not hard to believe that TPC would want to add Cinderace seeing how they have been giving the Scorbunny line special treatment in both the games and Anime.
Wasn't necessarily referring to Cinderace supporters. A lot of people have done nothing but ask, "Which starter is getting pushed the hardest?" That's all the information they need to lock in their prediction and ignore other options, which is probably why the Smash fanbase is consistently wrong about Pokemon newcomers.
 

Brodemmars

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Wasn't necessarily referring to Cinderace supporters. A lot of people have done nothing but ask, "Which starter is getting pushed the hardest?" That's all the information they need to lock in their prediction and ignore other options, which is probably why the Smash fanbase is consistently wrong about Pokemon newcomers.
Oh in that case, yeah I agree that many people in the Smash Community should try to put more thought into their predictions and be more considerate of other possible options. But what can you do? They all have their own theories and opinions on how the DLC will play out and even if you are able to make a solid case for your most wanted many will just dismiss your ideas unless by some miracle Sakurai adds a character that is able to challenge people's preconceived notions.
 

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Tbh, i'm hoping the pokemon pick is an unconventional pick just to get people thinking.

Greninja was the pokemon that kickstarted the trend of sticking to the starter pokemon after all.

Wasn't necessarily referring to Cinderace supporters. A lot of people have done nothing but ask, "Which starter is getting pushed the hardest?" That's all the information they need to lock in their prediction and ignore other options, which is probably why the Smash fanbase is consistently wrong about Pokemon newcomers.
It doesn't help that many of those people are from outside the pokemon fanbase who don't keep up with the recent generation, so the starter is a easy pick for them.
 
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Cosmic77

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One thing about the ARMS presentation that I thought was interesting was Sakurai mentioning that Ninjara and Min Min were the characters he was considering.

That lines up with recent Pokemon newcomers. I've brought this up a few times before, but the past three Pokemon characters have been based off of some type of fighter. I believe that whenever Sakurai isn't tied down to a protagonist, he tends to lean toward characters who are designed as things like martial artists, ninjas, swordfighters, wrestlers, and other various archetypes.

If he continues this pattern, then I'd reckon he'd be drawn to Pokemon like Zacian/Zamazenta, Inteleon, Sirfetch'd, Urshifu, and to a lesser extent, Cinderace (not necessarily a fighter, but it's known for its kicking). Seems like he's hunting for characters who naturally fit in Smash.
 
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fogbadge

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One thing about the ARMS presentation that I thought was interesting was Sakurai mentioning that Ninjara and Min Min were the characters he was considering.

That lines up with recent Pokemon newcomers. I've brought this up a few times before, but the past three Pokemon characters have been based off of some type of fighter. I believe that whenever Sakurai isn't tied down to a protagonist, he tends to lean toward characters who are designed as things like martial artists, ninjas, swordfighters, wrestlers, and other various archetypes.

If he continues this pattern, then I'd reckon he'd be drawn to Pokemon like Zacian/Zamazenta, Inteleon, Sirfetch'd, Urshifu, and to a lesser extent, Cinderace (not necessarily a fighter, but it's known for its kicking). Seems like he's hunting for characters who naturally fit in Smash.
well it certainly looks that way with pokemon, i would say cinderace is suited to fighting after all the whole thing hes based on gets incredibly violent

or is that just a scottish thing?
 

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One thing about the ARMS presentation that I thought was interesting was Sakurai mentioning that Ninjara and Min Min were the characters he was considering.

That lines up with recent Pokemon newcomers. I've brought this up a few times before, but the past three Pokemon characters have been based off of some type of fighter. I believe that whenever Sakurai isn't tied down to a protagonist, he tends to lean toward characters who are designed as things like martial artists, ninjas, swordfighters, wrestlers, and other various archetypes.

If he continues this pattern, then I'd reckon he'd be drawn to Pokemon like Zacian/Zamazenta, Inteleon, Sirfetch'd, Urshifu, and to a lesser extent, Cinderace (not necessarily a fighter, but it's known for its kicking). Seems like he's hunting for characters who naturally fit in Smash.
Is Archer not in that category or am i overthinking it?

And i reckon that with said pattern Dragapult is most likely not picked? Just curious.
 

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I believe that whenever Sakurai isn't tied down to a protagonist, he tends to lean toward characters who are designed as things like martial artists, ninjas, swordfighters, wrestlers, and other various archetypes.
Not necessarily completely related to this, but this sort of opened my eyes to GF's Pokémon design philosophy nowadays, especially regarding the starters. Starting from, like, Gen 6 onwards, I feel like they design them character-first instead of "species"-first. What I mean by this is that I feel like when thinking of the starters from Gens 1-5, people go like "oh, it's a big lizard/dragon/alligator/snake" etc, while Gen 6-8 is more like "oh, it's a ninja/archer/wrestler/soccer player/drummer/spy", you know the deal. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just interesting to see a clear shift in design practices. Maybe that's why a lot of the newer gen starters lend themselves well for stuff like Smash, as they already have an archetype built into them.
 
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Cosmic77

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Is Archer not in that category or am i overthinking it?

And i reckon that with said pattern Dragapult is most likely not picked? Just curious.
Yes, and Sakurai did say he considered Decidueye, so consider that to be more proof that this theory is true.

Not necessarily completely related to this, but this sort of opened my eyes to GF's Pokémon design philosophy nowadays, especially regarding the starters. Starting from, like, Gen 6 onwards, I feel like they design them character-first instead of "species"-first. What I mean by this is that I feel like when thinking of the starters from Gens 1-5, people go like "oh, it's a big lizard/dragon/alligator/snake" etc, while Gen 6-8 is more like "oh, it's a ninja/archer/wrestler/soccer player/drummer/spy", you know the deal. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just interesting to see a clear shift in design practices. Maybe that's why a lot of the newer gen starters lend themselves well for stuff like Smash, as they already have an archetype built into them.
A lot of that has to do with them running out of real-life creatures to base the Pokemon off of, so they have to reuse animals and make them stand out from the older Pokemon by adding some type of theme or shtick.

If an animal hasn't been used yet, then a simpler design is typically what they go with. Lycanroc and Komala from last Gen were pretty basic since we never had a wolf or koala Pokemon before.
 
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Every damn time, I swear. Every time a new round of newcomer speculation kicks off, most of the community picks a small handful of characters to focus on and hardly diverges from them at all. Only seems to change if either a new game is announced to shake things up or a rumor (even an easily disproven one) grows popular enough to get people talking about a character mentioned in it. I've spent years trying to figure out how to break through that, but all I've ever been able to reach are niche crowds.

It gets especially bad with franchises like Pokémon that have several viable options with each major new entry, because the Smash community will often focus on characters for the wrong reasons. Right now, we're seeing Cinderace (because it's the "obvious shillmon"), Rillaboom (to have a complete starter trio), Urshifu (to "promote" the Isle of Armor DLC), and Toxtricity (because it got popular outside the Pokémon fandom). Hardly anyone else beyond that even has the chance to be associated with the idea of getting into Smash, and it's inordinately difficult to change that. We're seeing newcomer speculation surrounding a game be dictated by people outside its own fanbase, and it's...frustrating.

Reminds me of how things went down during Smash 4 speculation. Talk surrounding Gen 6 revolved around people assuming they'd just bring Mewtwo back and work the Mega forms in somehow--none of the actual Gen 6 mons were taken seriously. Talk surrounding Fire Emblem Awakening was railroaded by people outside the FE fandom assuming Chrom was the only possible option, while actual Fire Emblem fans were pretty evenly split between Chrom and Robin (with at-the-time niche picks like Lucina, Anna, etc. showing up sometimes as well).

If we're going to be able to change anything here, I think the key will be reaching those who are fans of Pokémon first who also happen to follow Smash news. I've seen far more variance in the characters actual Pokémon fans have wanted. Zacian and Zamazenta themselves have even been brought up a few times elsewhere already, including by the founder of Serebii himself. Is there some way to tap into what isolated patches of interest there are and unite them?

While it wouldn't have any actual effect on who the Smash team chooses, it would be nice to not feel like outcasts nor be treated like non-entities so damn often.


Alas. Nothing like having a character wind up in literally the same position in the anime that Greninja had in Gen 6, while offering not only a unique build for a fighter but also elemental powers that are to this day completely untapped by the current roster...and get almost completely dismissed by speculators because they'd decided you had to be a starter to have a real shot. Even though we had multiple non-starters in Smash already. Even though they made an exception to their own rule with Mimikyu because it also got popular outside its home fandom.

It's just...damn it, people, we can do better than be so...exclusionary.

Don't mind me. I'm okay. Just...still some lingering frustration there.
First of all, Lycanroc did not get dismissed because of starter bias, but because of a leak that started to gain popularity at the same time as Lycanroc did. Post-Decidueye (who was a phase before the games released and Lycanroc didn’t get his importance), I distinctly remembering Lycanroc gaining popularity and going toe-to-toe with the then waning Decidueye. Thing is, Vergeben came along and correctly picked out Incineroar before anime Lycanroc really gained steam. I still stand by my opinion that Lycanroc would’ve been a frontrunner if it weren’t for leaks.

Besides that, I don’t think any general Smash speculators are genuinely interested in Pokémon speculation. I feel like it’s seen as a neccesary evil and more of a blanket prediction, which explains the cynical “oh it’ll probably be the shillmon if not the dlc shill pokémon cause it’s newer”. It‘s like predicting Byleth: Yeah, he was likely but also that’s it, cause people didn’t like the idea of a new Fire Emblem character. That’s not a fanbase being dismissive, that’s people focussing on what they like. People lost excitement for Pokémon speculation and simply...don’t bother. This is not hivemind, just a lack of interest to dive into a series’ unique speculation cycle just to maybe be right. Speculation is relatively open-minded right now between a third party pass behind us and a first party Spirit kicking off the new one, but it means people don’t spend as much time on “the obligatory Pokémon” as you might wish.

To change that...yeah not much you can do. Maybe capitalize off of Min Min and say “hey I know pokémon is a boring ****show most of the time but like ARMS, it has a lot of options.”
 

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Not necessarily completely related to this, but this sort of opened my eyes to GF's Pokémon design philosophy nowadays, especially regarding the starters. Starting from, like, Gen 6 onwards, I feel like they design them character-first instead of "species"-first. What I mean by this is that I feel like when thinking of the starters from Gens 1-5, people go like "oh, it's a big lizard/dragon/alligator/snake" etc, while Gen 6-8 is more like "oh, it's a ninja/archer/wrestler/soccer player/drummer/spy", you know the deal. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just interesting to see a clear shift in design practices. Maybe that's why a lot of the newer gen starters lend themselves well for stuff like Smash, as they already have an archetype built into them.
I'd argue it sort of started with gen 5, as it's stated that the starters are based on different empires of the past amoung other things:
-Serperior screams regalness & French Empire.
-Emboar has influence from Sumo Wrestling & Chinese Empire.
-Samurott is a literal Samurai so obvs it's Japanese Empire.

And this leads me into a very interesting question.

That lines up with recent Pokemon newcomers. I've brought this up a few times before, but the past three Pokemon characters have been based off of some type of fighter. I believe that whenever Sakurai isn't tied down to a protagonist, he tends to lean toward characters who are designed as things like martial artists, ninjas, swordfighters, wrestlers, and other various archetypes.
If we had a gen 5 rep, would he have picked Samurott the Samurai as the character if said mentality existed from back then?
 
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fogbadge

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I'd argue it sort of started with gen 5, as it's stated that the starters are based on different empires of the past amoung other things:
-Serperior screams regalness & French Empire.
-Emboar has influence from Sumo Wrestling & Chinese Empire.
-Samurott is a literal Samurai so obvs it's Japanese Empire.
as i understood it emboar was based on a character from journey to the west
 

Cosmic77

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If we had a gen 5 rep, would he have picked Samurott the Samurai as the character if said mentality existed from back then?
To he honest, I'm not really sure. None of the starter final evos got a lot of attention in the anime or movies. Oshawott and Snivy never evolved, and Tepig never made it past Pignite. Zoroark was probably the most likely to he chosen, but despite having a movie, it only appeared once in the BW anime. Lucario had made several appearances in the DP anime.

Looking back, I can sort of understand why Sakurai went through with Greninja rather than add a Gen V Pokemon who had already existed for a while. There weren't many break-out stars, and very few of the Pokemon made you say to yourself, "Yeah, Sakurai would definitely add someone like that in Smash."
 

Delzethin

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One thing about the ARMS presentation that I thought was interesting was Sakurai mentioning that Ninjara and Min Min were the characters he was considering.

That lines up with recent Pokemon newcomers. I've brought this up a few times before, but the past three Pokemon characters have been based off of some type of fighter. I believe that whenever Sakurai isn't tied down to a protagonist, he tends to lean toward characters who are designed as things like martial artists, ninjas, swordfighters, wrestlers, and other various archetypes.

If he continues this pattern, then I'd reckon he'd be drawn to Pokemon like Zacian/Zamazenta, Inteleon, Sirfetch'd, Urshifu, and to a lesser extent, Cinderace (not necessarily a fighter, but it's known for its kicking). Seems like he's hunting for characters who naturally fit in Smash.
Well...I'm don't think we have enough information to make that call. For all we know, it could've been other factors that gave Min Min a leg up (like being able to use her signature kicks to fill in gaps in her moveset). There's also Piranha Plant, a non-main character who was chosen because of how completely different it'd be and how it was capable of things no other character was, not because it fit a pre-existing theme. Even Lucario was designed first as "this character fights using aura and we can do interesting things with that"; the martial arts angle was just a natural extension of that and being a Fighting type. Are you sure you aren't extrapolating too far from what Sakurai said about Gen 7?

Perhaps I'm just wary of it out of bias--we'd be in a better spot if the DLC team keeps looking for new ideas and new mechanics. Zacian's and Zamazenta's greatest upside is how different they'd be compared to every other superheavy or weapon user so far. Being able to embody the concept of folk heroes in greater fashion than anyone so far is a nice bonus, but it wouldn't be as big a selling point on its own when we have several other heroic types already.

Then again, that exact thing happened with a wrestler in the base game, so...hm...

And this leads me into a very interesting question.

If we had a gen 5 rep, would he have picked Samurott the Samurai as the character if said mentality existed from back then?
Hard to say. Zoroark would probably have been the frontrunner, though, especially since the whole illusionist angle would've itself been unique.

We'll probably never know, though, unless Sakurai talks about it at some point. Gen 6 was going to be around for a year by Smash 4's release, so they looked at the generation that'd be relevant by then instead.
 
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Cosmic77

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Well...I'm don't think we have enough information to make that call. For all we know, it could've been other factors that gave Min Min a leg up (like being able to use her signature kicks to fill in gaps in her moveset). There's also Piranha Plant, a non-main character who was chosen because of how completely different it'd be and how it was capable of things no other character was, not because it fit a pre-existing theme. Even Lucario was designed first as "this character fights using aura and we can do interesting things with that"; the martial arts angle was just a natural extension of that and being a Fighting type. Are you sure you aren't extrapolating too far from what Sakurai said about Gen 7?

Perhaps I'm just wary of it out of bias--we'd be in a better spot if the DLC team keeps looking for new ideas and new mechanics. Zacian's and Zamazenta's greatest upside is how different they'd be compared to every other superheavy or weapon user so far. Being able to embody the concept of folk heroes in greater fashion than anyone so far is a nice bonus, but it wouldn't be as big a selling point on its own when we have several other heroic types already.

Then again, that exact thing happened with a wrestler in the base game, so...hm...
Sakurai's making a fighting game, so I do think it's understandable for him to be drawn to characters who would naturally fit in. They're easy to create, and stuff outside of the specials are pretty straightforward. As much as I hate to admit, Greninja and Incineroar were probably the easiest Pokemon from their Gen to make a moveset for.

Obviously this line of thinking prevents us from getting some really creative picks from Pokemon, but at least it somewhat works in our favor this time. The Legendaries are still a little more difficult to add than someone like Inteleon or Urshifu, but at least they both have a weapon that can be used in stuff outside specials (moreso Zacian than Zamazenta, but the latter could probably use its shield for a few attacks).

This is more of an observation though, not a hard rule to follow. Sakurai could easily choose someone like Wooloo or Toxtricity. I just feel like the Pokemon I listed a few posts ago are more likely to be chosen by Sakurai.
 
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