The Legacy - SSB64 Combo Video

[TANK64]

wow, this is still going. I should have posted yesterday after all. But yea, why don't they play anyone else? Because they are NOT REAL (well there gameplay isn't). and lol at Ciaza and motive, what REAL motive are you expecting here? He was good at TASing and thought it would be fun, as a troll/game to try and make believable players that were super leet. Only lots of people called TAS almost immediately. They have perfect execution, but don't DI at all? But never miss a ledge DI? If they are so good, and like playing so much, why don't they play with other smashers over there, or online, or anywhere. Then they disappeared fast because Antd couldn't keep it up forever. Battlecow is the only one making sense right now. Anyways it's so bloody obvious. I'll go ahead and say, "only dum people think they aren't TAS," because that's where this is headed. I wish so bad that they were real, but it just doesn't add up.

Rickyssb's had a similar situation. His training mode combos had people thinkin' he was TAS. Why? Because he kind of came out of nowhere, was a little too good, and especially because he had TASed combos in the past. But he actually plays other people, and is pretty good. Just like that, mystery solved- Ricky is a good, REAL player, who is super creative.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293032

 

[ciaza]

From what I've heard TASing is quite time consuming. The guy must of been ridiculously bored to go through with such a plan and TAS so many matches all for a bit of fun and to troll people. Sorry but I simply don't buy it.

Australia has had multiple small groups of people who like to play exclusively with each other (Acerimmer and co, Douxo and co) so them doing the same thing doesn't come as a shock to me. I've shown reasoning as to their DI.

As I've said before this is all pretty pointless until one side gathers concrete proof for their side. This can best be done if someone persuades them to meet someone other than AntD as Battlecow mentioned.

 

[SheerMadness]

Seems like a lot of time and work to make some very mediocre TAS matches.

I don't see what's in it for someone to create fake smash identities to post mediocre to bad TAS matches.

Sorry but it doesn't sound realistic to me. Or I just can't comprehend someone actually wasting their time doing that.

.....

 

[Olikus]

The weirdest thing that I find is that they dont seem to understand a word swedish. If they just had aswered 1 question in swedish, it would allso be more convincing.

 

[DMoogle]

They're from sweden, but don't speak swedish.

How do you know this? That is weird, but it isn't completely far-fetched.

They hate online, but only play on emulator.

Lots of people hate keyboard, but never bother to get a proper controller.

Obviously it would be a poor quality TAS, but that's because (A) he doesn't want to spend more time than necessary and (B) he wants them to be believable.

Do you know how much time it takes to make a TAS video? A lot. Do you know how much time it takes to make a TAS match? A hell of a LOT more. There are 44 matches on swebits' channel. Granted, most of them are short, but still, this would take SO LONG. And for what purpose? To fool people? It might be funny for a little while, but it would be much better if the joke was revealed at some point, which it hasn't been.

And no one figures out how to fox teleport-Usmash without some kind of community and yet somehow magically manages to not figure out even the rudiments of DI. I'm sorry, but there it is.

I've played against live players who've never played online, but they still knew most advanced techniques, and had better DI then most players (it's how I learned how to DI well). I'm pretty sure they learned their techniques by looking online, even though they never posted or became part of the community. The information is out there.

Their playstyles are kind of weird too if you watch- like the one video where morgen's DK runs across DL and gets whacked (malva pointed it out). That's not the kind of error a good human player would make.

Fundamental errors are common, even for good players, if the player has had a limited player base to play with, which these players have. One of these fundamental errors may be not realizing the benefits of DI when it comes to combos.

There's no way this is some kind of prank TAS. It's too real, and there's no motive. And there's nothing superhuman about their timing. They're impressive and precise, but not by any means superhuman.

At worst, they use save states after like every stock to try to make the matches are interesting as possible. No way they go frame-by-frame though.

 

[banze]

Hey RITH !! I realy want to congratulate you guys for another high quality video, Gnk has this awesome skill of editing and you pick pretty sick plays from out there!

I’m not into this all “fake or not” player thing. Even though knowing that the legit of saying “it is a console playing based video” is important, I’m ratter analyzing the players over there that we are sure that are real!
Loved most of the combos that appear in there, some of them were more outstanding than others, of course, but all pretty tight!

I always wanted to make a video with only Brazilian players. Maybe, if I could organize that big tournament that im planning on, we would have lots of plays to do so! Also, I gees it would be sick to watch a Cabelo’s combo vid !! show some skilled combos from our robotic player here ! ;]

As you know, what I like the most about playing this game is mind games, spacing, edgeguarding and smartplays. Not mad that I dint see my name out there, Buuutttt, what you guys think about doing a mind game or a “smart ***” playing style video??

Again, loved your job there!

 

[The Star King]

Spending tons of hours creating smash matches that don't even get that much praise, aren't THAT impressive, don't earn the creator anything, and is nowhere near a worthwhile/funny joke.

That sounds reasonable.

 

[Battlecow]

There's not really "personalities." Maltfox usually wins, but the combos are always different, the spacing is... patchy... at best, and they FREAKING DI INTO COMBOS. I don't know much about TAS but I don't think that it's impossible for a dedicated and experienced TAS'er like ant to do a couple of OK matches in a night.

The deciding factor for me is that when malva asked ant about it, ant refused to respond and left immediately.

I agree, it's a weird thing to do, but come now. Ant is a weird guy. Maybe he wanted to prove something about how online play sucked and was unnecessary? I don't know. But go back and watch those matches, with TAS in mind- it's obvious; he doesn't do a particularly careful job of covering up, people just aren't used to this kind of TAS. first match I found when I googled swebits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcwgQZF9D6g&feature=player_embedded#at=126. Who plays like that with fox? those random first-hit Uairs over and over? It's a TAS thing.

Yeah, it's mad time-consuming. Unreasonably so. But if he built up a nice store of matches and whatnot, and if the TAS's didn't have to be really carefully frame-by-framed...

And the way they talk about it. Swebits was so excited about how he was gonna show us Morgen's "invincibility skill" with Yoshi. He'd obviously never heard of a parry (if that was swebits and not ant), and yet he's supposed to have gone online to find out about fox's teleusmashes and whatnot? And then they just disappear without a good-bye or explanation?

Too obvious.

 

[Dsc]

Also they really suck at getting out of combos lol.

yep, because they want to show off the combos. Remember that yoshi utilt x 40? Seriously...bcow has the facts

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah, just the idea of going up against BOTH A$ and Starking has me trembling, but I'm absolutely positive on this one. If I find the time I'm gonna go through the matches again and find ridiculous stuff that supports my theory.

Most of all, they just don't ACT like real people. Real people who've been playing with the same 3 guys forever don't play anything like that. They play like that bestsamusever guy who didn't know what a DJC was and thought that FFA's were the only real way to play. Anyways, the idea of controller only Emu only offline only players is ridiculous; to get that pretty with their playstyles, they'd have to have been playing back since the console days (when did SSB64 emulation start? I'm unsure) and it would be so phenomenally hard to learn about playing on emulators without learning ANYTHING about the community (again, their ignorance of "parry" shows their community-blindness). Plus, US version, right? Come on.

And again, real swedes would have talked to Olikus.

"and guys i am doing DI some things are too hard to DI like falcons up kick attack"

Does that convince anyone? He didn't know what to call an aerial, but he knew about the attack that everyone brings up when hard-to-DI stuff is on the line. And he never DI'd anything, but tried to defend his position and added in hax ledge DI. Obviously Ant trying to convince people without messing up combos. Watch that swedish thread. Hilariously "gay" DK play in the tent, people complain, BAM! superflashy DK match. And... stuff.

 

[ballin4life]

If I find the time I'm gonna go through the matches again and find ridiculous stuff that supports my theory.

Yeah search for that thermite resid ... err I mean ridiculous TAS stuff

 

[Battlecow]

Ha ha ha.

You're a funny man. You know what else is funny? I just emailed your address to Hammerheart. **** ***** Road, San Mateo, isn't it?

 

[ballin4life]

I don't really find that funny. My post, on the other hand, was hilarious.

 

[Battlecow]

Yes indeed, it was.

 

[ballin4life]

I was serious though when I said you should look through their videos ... some good points brought up on both sides of the debate here.

My position is kinda neutral: I don't think they're TAS for sure but something seems weird about them.

 

[Battlecow]

K so I watched a few matches:

-They don't do cool things; they do cool things that we've never seen before. How do three players so ignorant of the community that they refer to Doug's Uair as his "up kick thing" know what we have and haven't seen before? Every match shuns the cool combos of the types that have already been pioneered by others and adopts new ones entirely. A certain amount of this could be chalked up to differences in perspective, but these guys NEVER pull cool but done-before stuff. They're determined to entertain us with originality- almost like a TAS'er would.

- The techchases are ridicudicudiculous. You could never pull those off on a striving opponent.

- They play almost solely on hyrule and DL (there are only like one or two exceptions). They just happened to pick up the "Smashboards" stages? Even the Japanese and Brazilians have different stage preferences, for christ's sake (the japanese because they have more sense than us, the Brazilians because they have less)! The odds of them just happening to form the same exact kind of stage preferences as the smashboards community is eeeeeh.

- There are no dumb mistakes AFAICT. I haven't watched some of these for a while, but EVERY stock seems to be great. This could be explained by A$'s freeze-state theory I suppose.

- They have MAGNIFICENT bump-into-stuff DI post-DI-harangue, but no combo DI at all. They manage to develop the least effective DI'ing method, and it only? I don't think so.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah, just the idea of going up against BOTH A$ and Starking has me trembling, but I'm absolutely positive on this one.

I'm not going to argue much about this lol. Ciaza (WHO YOU DIDN'T MENTION I'M SURE HE FEELS FORGOTTEN NOW AND STUFF) has already said most of what I would, and it's mostly conjecture at this point.

I have the same position as ballin, anyways:

My position is kinda neutral: I don't think they're TAS for sure but something seems weird about them.

 

[asianaussie]

nobody remembers australia

ever

 

[ballin4life]

does anyone have an example of maltfox or morgen missing a z cancel?

 

[The Star King]

nobody remembers australia

ever

I'll remember...

...to destroy it.

You're welcome.

 

[asianaussie]

we would be a good summer secret fortress base since we have the nicest beaches

 

[The Star King]

does anyone have an example of maltfox or morgen missing a z cancel?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DVkifg7zYY

1:20

 

[felipe_9595]

Sorry to blow your bubble but Tambo doesnt play on 64, he plays on Emulator with Mupen, i could recognize that quality of video milles away form it (Definitely mupen)

 

[Battlecow]

I'm not going to argue much about this lol. Ciaza (WHO YOU DIDN'T MENTION I'M SURE HE FEELS FORGOTTEN NOW AND STUFF) has already said most of what I would, and it's mostly conjecture at this point.

I have the same position as ballin, anyways:

But it...

But you...

*Looks at the masses of evidence he's accrued, his ironclad position, and his surety of correctness*

*realizes that conclusive proof either way is altogether impossible to find*

****!

They totally are TAS, though. It's not like Ant wouldn't throw in a missed Z-cancel once in a while.

 

[ciaza]

Thank you Star King, you have no idea how cut I was after being forgotten. I'm not going to say anything more at this point. Battlecow you raised many good points and I respect your stance but I don't think this issue will get resolved any time soon.

 

[Dsc]

Ive watched most of swedes matches. Never saw a missed z cancel. But saw alot of super close frame z cancels.
edit: ok star king found one yeah.

 

[SSBPete]

ok now for my opinion!

they are real players for all the reasons ciaza stated. they are very advanced players who know how to di, they just dont apply it to combos to make their videos more entertaining! they sometimes intentionally fall into combos and set themselves up for big plays to make for some more excitment too. their general play style looks very human like, its just a one off thing were they do something 'superhuman' but then again most of the good matches on youtube have some kind of superhuman combo or di or tech chase as rith has just shown us. futhermore, one of them, i think it was maltfox, said he learned to di from isai and had a personality which was cocky and generally what you would expect from a highly experienced player.
about the teleport, you can easily acsess information on any tech skill from the internet without having to reveal a name such as 'maltfox' or 'morgen'.
for antd there are no real motives. why would he spend so much time making matches of above average players? its soo stupid

 

[Lawrencelot]

IMO, Maltfox and morgen and swebits are players who deliberately make good-looking combos, but they know about all advanced things and of course DI as well they just don't apply combo DI in order to get fancier combos. They also don't want any contact with the Europeans, so I'm with the 'maybe not TAS but definitely fishy' group. I'd find it hilarious if everything was a prank of AntD though, and it's certainly possible, there just aren't a lot of good reasons to do such a thing.

 

[Olikus]

Im not sure if its TAS or not, but something is fake. And you dont even need the matches to justify that. Only one of them post on smashboards and youtube. Ofc its not in itself a proof but a chance that there are not 3 players. As i mentioned swebits responded on allmsot every question, but never to all the swedish questiones. not even in english. Probably scared to use google translate and get caught in not being swedish.

It looked very likely that the macthes was done in advance, since when people come with suggestions, they did something else, even if they did ask for suggestions.

Noone in sweden have heard of them, and sweden happens to be one of he biggest smash countries in Europe(If not the biggest). Its mostly melee but still, that no one even have heard of them irl sounds beyond weird.

And without so much as a goodbye, they just vanished from both smashboards and youtube. He hasnt even checked his account.

and on top of all this you can put the weird matches which looks very staged the most of the times. Still any of these points doesnt prove that it TAS, even if it could be a good chance, since andtgar is the only one who has met them, and he ran away from questions about there intensions.

I know why should he do that? And it would have taken an incredible amount of time. So im not convinced that its TAS.

But one thing is sure, they are not 3 swedes playing in a basement.

 

[asianaussie]

finally got around to watching it

good compilation, a little grainy, but that can't be helped

i think i heard touhou...maybe im hallucinating again o.o

 

[ciaza]

finally got around to watching it

good compilation, a little grainy, but that can't be helped

i think i heard touhou...maybe im hallucinating again o.o

NO I heard it too! But I didn't see it anywhere in the music list so I didn't bring it up.

 

[SSBPete]

isn't it a general consensus that we give benifit of the doubt to anything that is acussed of being TAS'd without proof?

 

[Olikus]

isn't it a general consensus that we give benifit of the doubt to anything that is acussed of being TAS'd without proof?

The same thing can be said the opposite way. If you read my previous post its not a single proof that they are real either. im not saying its TAS, but it is something that doesnt make sense, not even close.

 

[asianaussie]

i really hope it's antd staging an elaborate hoax

unless it involves him contracting a psychiatric disorder, in which case i don't hope that at all

 

[Dsc]

So that combo vid is pretty good. Yes lot of bores in there but well made. And im suprised zenyores sig combo wasnt there

 

[The Star King]

Zenyore's sig combo was on emulator, and Rith TRIED to use only console matches.

I agree with Pete. I try to give the benefit for the doubt.

 

[O.o-RITH-o.O]

bcow, Japanese tournaments in general are all only-dreamland!!
and in Brazil mushroom kingdom isn't allowed , all the other rest is counter pick and you cant pick a stage that you already won in...
i would say Brazil have a more reasonable rule-set..

ah.. i remembered one thing, maltfox,swebits and morgen play the US version??? i always though they were playing some kinda Europe version of the game...if it's US than it's TAS for sure, remember those 10 ~ 120% jab combos of maltfox? lol not to mention those 40x utils from yoshi that i always though were some bug from the Euro version

 

[The Star King]

Remind me to join a Brazilian tournament sometime, so I can abuse the **** out of Yoshi's Island.

 

[Olikus]

sector Z fox dittos sounds fun too.

 

[ballin4life]

Hmmm ... Zenyore hasn't posted in a while ... and his opponent DIed into his sig combo ... IS HE INVOLVED IN THE CONSPIRACY?