Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[MrTeddyBear]

Seriously guys....Is there ever a reason to do any Dthrow->[insert kill move here] besides Dthrow->Down B? This combo seems too good. It can kill earlier than any other followup, especially with Rage. You get to focus much less on DI to ensure a hit. It's harder to escape. The other options are useful but I believe are all trumped except if Down B is stale. Here's where I think other KILL options are viable:

Dthrow->Up B => Use on big body characters, Style points

Dthrow->Dair => Mid-High percent spike offstage against characters with bad vertical recovery

Dthrow->Bair => Mid-High percent kill option from the ledge against characters with bad horizontal recovery

Dthrow->Uair => Kill option when you let your opponent's percent get too high

Dthrow->Nair => No longer viable

Dthrow->Side-B Misfire can net you some style points

 

[hey_there]

It was posted on the news here a long while ago by TheDerrit...I can't find it now sadly. Will update when I do. It was a video of all unsed customs for all characters...Luigi had by far the best via the wavedash thing.

This video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ce9K1xaaAY

I wouldn't call that wavedashing exactly. It seems like a pretty big commitment.

 

[Yonder]

This video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ce9K1xaaAY

I wouldn't call that wavedashing exactly. It seems like a pretty big commitment.

That's the one. I think it looks very useful, he would be able to approach very easily. Unless it sacrified recovery distance or somthing, but since we don't know it's full properties...maybe he could have done aerials, smashes out of it.

 

[Soupy]

Wavedashing custom?
Is there a video or something of this?

I just looked this up and it's so ridiculous hahahaha.

Here's the video. I copied it at the exact time Luigi pops up.

EDIT: Op looks like someone replied before me. Oops!

 

[Deleted member]

A Luigi Cyclone wavedash would seem like a double edge sword to me if it was implemented.
We kinda sorta get Luigi's wavedash back, improving his overall approach, but I think it would come with the sacrifice of his recovery (which is extremely gimpable as we all know) and possibly even being unable to use the Luigi Cyclone for combos.

 

[hey_there]

My main problem with it is you'd be stuck spinning around, easily telegraphing what you're going to do, with only a bit of sliding you can act out of near the end.

On the subject of customs, I saw this video that briefly explores some possibilities with a 3231 set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhanK-GQQMY&t=48

Does this change anyone's thoughts on them at all?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

My main problem with it is you'd be stuck spinning around, easily telegraphing what you're going to do, with only a bit of sliding you can act out of near the end.

On the subject of customs, I saw this video that briefly explores some possibilities with a 3231 set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhanK-GQQMY&t=48

Does this change anyone's thoughts on them at all?

That's funny I'm seeing this. I was literally trying this same thing out with the Iceball yesterday and I thought I found something cool but turns out someone beat me to it. These Iceball combos are fairly difficult to set up in a real fight because your opponent can immediately act out of the ice block and will break out faster than training mode. Also, in order to "Icelock" (that's what I call it lol), you have to commit to an approach with Iceball in order to be in position to hit with the next one. The implementation is pretty cool tho. I'm starting to have second thoughts on Iceball at least.

 

[hey_there]

That's funny I'm seeing this. I was literally trying this same thing out with the Iceball yesterday and I thought I found something cool

Hehehe =3

Anyway, "Icelocking" may not be practical, but iceball -> cyclone/bair/missile is pretty real and something I've done a lot in custom matches. Iceball also has the smaller benefit of popping your opponent above a platform if you're on BF or even T&C.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Hehehe =3

Anyway, "Icelocking" may not be practical, but iceball -> cyclone/bair/missile is pretty real and something I've done a lot in custom matches. Iceball also has the smaller benefit of popping your opponent above a platform if you're on BF or even T&C.

Do you find your followups hard to come by due to the speed they can break out and attack/airdodge?

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Sticky nailed my feelings on dthrow>cyclone. Oitside of certain situations I've never felt the need to do something other than cyclone to kill.

Uair if they have too much % that they fly too high for cyclone, dair for mid % spikes near ledge. Bair is interchangable with dair for me due to kills off the side if near ledge.

 

[hey_there]

Do you find your followups hard to come by due to the speed they can break out and attack/airdodge?

It depends on how far in cool down I am. Generally I try to keep an Iceball floating around me while pressuring so I'm free to attack/grab/whatever, which let's me pretty much always land a follow up. While lvl 9 CPUs break out instantly, humans generally stay in long enough to follow up with a cyclone.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

I'm assuming the time being frozen scales with the opponent's percent correct?

 

[hey_there]

I'm assuming the time being frozen scales with the opponent's percent correct?

After some quick testing it looks like no, they stay frozen for the same amount of time but appear to be frozen for longer due to the KB growth on the Iceballs sending them farther away.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Aww, kinda disappointing but interesting at the same time.

 

[hey_there]

I've been incorporating missile into my edge guard game lately with good results. If someone is knocked off stage and I read them recovering mid or low I've been able to slide off the ledge and briefly charge a missile and fire off at them. The KB on the missile won't always kill, but generally sends opponents too far to recover back. Misfire obviously guarantees a KO. Afterwards, dbljump + cyclone makes it back to the stage from pretty much anywhere off stage. It works well because missile is generally slow enough that it'll clip an opponent even if they airdodge. It's also given me a farther off stage presence which has been useful for getting off a fair for a gimp. If the missile trades, you end up back on stage and they don't.

To be clear I'm not advocating this as the main go-to edge guard, I'm just saying it's a another tool in the box that's useful for getting KOs. I do not recommend recklessly throwing out a missile and hoping for the best.

 

[Soupy]

I've been incorporating missile into my edge guard game lately with good results. If someone is knocked off stage and I read them recovering mid or low I've been able to slide off the ledge and briefly charge a missile and fire off at them. The KB on the missile won't always kill, but generally sends opponents too far to recover back. Misfire obviously guarantees a KO. Afterwards, dbljump + cyclone makes it back to the stage from pretty much anywhere off stage. It works well because missile is generally slow enough that it'll clip an opponent even if they airdodge. It's also given me a farther off stage presence which has been useful for getting off a fair for a gimp. If the missile trades, you end up back on stage and they don't.

To be clear I'm not advocating this as the main go-to edge guard, I'm just saying it's a another tool in the box that's useful for getting KOs. I do not recommend recklessly throwing out a missile and hoping for the best.

I'll have to try this!

I enjoy using run through -> turn around missile (sort of like how a lot of captain falcons run through and side b after you drop shield) as well as retreat -> turn around missile. I feel like it's a pretty decent, unexpected option and the landing lag after it connects is generally not too bad since the KB is decent.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I'll have to try this!

I enjoy using run through -> turn around missile (sort of like how a lot of captain falcons run through and side b after you drop shield) as well as retreat -> turn around missile. I feel like it's a pretty decent, unexpected option and the landing lag after it connects is generally not too bad since the KB is decent.

I've done the retreat and side B before. It doesn't get blocked normally so I would say if someone is pursuing you and you're confident then go for it. As far as the run through, I like to run through then turnaround Up B. Risky yes but if you read the grab, it's a free Up B

 

[Deleted member]

I haven't tried incorporating the Green Missile like that. I'll try it for myself later and see if it's pretty helpful tool to use.
I don't think that edge-guarding with the Green Missile will work on every character, though; I can see this be problematic with a character like Shulk.

 

[Soupy]

I haven't tried incorporating the Green Missile like that. I'll try it for myself later and see if it's pretty helpful tool to use.
I don't think that edge-guarding with the Green Missile will work on every character, though; I can see this be problematic with a character like Shulk.

People usually just think "oh ya know, they wouldn't do a grounded side b" and then you do, and it works....7 times in a row. Hahaha.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Do ppl ever actually fight on platforms?

Well, if they do and someone is in your face you can shield drop->Up B. Extremely situational but I decided to mention it anyway

 

[Dwn4th3kaz]

This thread serves to consolidate all the information we know about Luigi in Smash 4 - buffs, nerfs, general changes and all, as well as his moveset, including custom moves.

------------------------------------------------​

I have a streaming Japan 3ds and I've been playing the game while showing people DUCK HUNT DOG OVER AND OVER....but yeah from playing Luigi...he feels maybe "balanced"

Like some things feel changes for the better and some to keep him in check. Up-B (Combo or not) feels a little more tricky to pull off. Im not sure if its just the blast zones but some smash moves dont kill when I expect them to.

I might try to compile a better array of thoughts later but if anyone has anything in particular they want to know...feel free to ask here.

I'm not super pro or anything but he is my main :D

Hey umm how can I rise up with luigi down b without jumping it seems to hard to just tap that fast

 

[TriTails]

Hey umm how can I rise up with luigi down b without jumping it seems to hard to just tap that fast

Get SAWNIC SPEED fingers like Boss.

No, I'm serious, you just got to MASH. THAT. FAST. Yep, little Luigi mains can do it, but not me.

Hopefully, the patch helps with this thing, no random people can use it and mash like Boss without practices.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Tagging @ Dakpo and @ hey_there because you guys said you can do the Cyclone rise consistently and are active here.

Question: When going for the Cyclone gimp do you mash right away or hold them in the cyclone briefly before rising? I tend to mash right away but now I'm thinking I could probably drag them down a bit then mash to drop them farther. I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

 

[hey_there]

Tagging @ Dakpo and @ hey_there because you guys said you can do the Cyclone rise consistently and are active here.

Question: When going for the Cyclone gimp do you mash right away or hold them in the cyclone briefly before rising? I tend to mash right away but now I'm thinking I could probably drag them down a bit then mash to drop them farther. I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

If you can drag them down before rising quickly then that'd be pretty great. I'm not that great at mashing though so personally I start mashing right away and to give myself enough time to rise while still shooting them downwards.

 

[Dakpo]

Tagging @ Dakpo and @ hey_there because you guys said you can do the Cyclone rise consistently and are active here.

Question: When going for the Cyclone gimp do you mash right away or hold them in the cyclone briefly before rising? I tend to mash right away but now I'm thinking I could probably drag them down a bit then mash to drop them farther. I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Mash right away. Unless you are a god at mashing, you need to get as much height as you can. If you didn't know, having someone in the Cyclone makes it harder to rise. It might look like its delayed but its just because its harder to rise

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Mash right away. Unless you are a god at mashing, you need to get as much height as you can. If you didn't know, having someone in the Cyclone makes it harder to rise. It might look like its delayed but its just because its harder to rise

Yeah I have noticed a delay in my rise when someone is in the Cyclone. Makes sense to just mash right away especially if they get caught a little bit after I already started it. Still wanna test it to see how good my mashing really is.

 

[Tbagz]

Question on the Dthrow+Buster?

Has anyone figured out if this is a true combo, or if its just character specific? or DI based? It seems to work on most characters around 110% from the center of smashville.

I recently got 4th at a tournament out here in Germany (where I am currently stationed) And I had an INCREDIBLY hard time doing it to a shiek user in Semi-finals, but I know she is a fast fall character after 2 missed attempts I just stopped going for it throughout the set. Has anyone discovered the mechanics of this? When i was in Pools and early brackets I never missed it, So im assuming its based on how well my opponent DI's, thoughts?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Question on the Dthrow+Buster?

Has anyone figured out if this is a true combo, or if its just character specific? or DI based? It seems to work on most characters around 110% from the center of smashville.

I recently got 4th at a tournament out here in Germany (where I am currently stationed) And I had an INCREDIBLY hard time doing it to a shiek user in Semi-finals, but I know she is a fast fall character after 2 missed attempts I just stopped going for it throughout the set. Has anyone discovered the mechanics of this? When i was in Pools and early brackets I never missed it, So im assuming its based on how well my opponent DI's, thoughts?

Buster? Do you mean Luigi's Up B?

 

[Yonder]

Buster? Do you mean Luigi's Up B?

If he does mean Up B, it's easier to perform D throw to Up B on characters with slow falling speed and big frames. Rosalina is probably the easiest in game to do it too. Really hard on characters like Jiggly or Fox. I'm not exactly sure of the factors.

Another question folks, what characters does Luigi's double fair chaingrab from 0% work on best? I know it's basically 100% guaranteed on Link from experience, but who else? It does not work on floaties like Jigglypuff.

 

[TriTails]

Bowser, D3, Ganon are the ones that I can think of right now. Maybe MK, and sometimes Diddy (Not sure why. Sometimes he falls out of the 1st Fair, sometimes he got hit by both and git grabbed). Shulk because his aerials are all slow... and that's the ones that I can think off right now.

Oh, and if you want to deal more damage against floaties, D-throw -> Dbl chop -> double jump -> F-air(s). Of course, do this at your own risk. You don't want to get kicked offstage with your double jump not presenting itself.

 

[Tbagz]

If he does mean Up B, it's easier to perform D throw to Up B on characters with slow falling speed and big frames. Rosalina is probably the easiest in game to do it too. Really hard on characters like Jiggly or Fox. I'm not exactly sure of the factors.

Another question folks, what characters does Luigi's double fair chaingrab from 0% work on best? I know it's basically 100% guaranteed on Link from experience, but who else? It does not work on floaties like Jigglypuff.

I did mean his UP+B.

Most moderate weight characters you can do it to, even mario ( as long as he doesnt NAIR) its better to follow the second grab up with a FAIR+ UAIR, does more damage and leaves them in the air longer for follow ups and punishes.

Actually, with link you can Double Fair, into 3 U+tilts, and an Up smash. its really broken on medium/heavy characters, it all depends on whether the character is a floaty, or a fast fall.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

If he does mean Up B, it's easier to perform D throw to Up B on characters with slow falling speed and big frames. Rosalina is probably the easiest in game to do it too. Really hard on characters like Jiggly or Fox. I'm not exactly sure of the factors.

Another question folks, what characters does Luigi's double fair chaingrab from 0% work on best? I know it's basically 100% guaranteed on Link from experience, but who else? It does not work on floaties like Jigglypuff.

On all non-floaty characters, I prefer to use Dthrow -> Fair -> Nair at 0%. Double fair works too sometimes but on fast fallers, the second fair might miss. Against characters with a quick Nair or jab, I'll shield after my Dthrow combo then grab again. Not really a chaingrab but it's safer against ppl who like to mash A

 

[TriTails]

My combos after D-throw:
BnB: Double chop.
Floaties: Triple or quadruple chops at 0%, else I Cyclone because I'm not good at all when reading a DI.
Fast-fallers: Fireballs a bit, some D-throw + U-tilt(s), then double chop.
Combo breakers: Chop + N-air.
If they DI up: Cyclone or F-air + B-air at lower percentages, else I go for Cyclone, N-air, or D-air spike.

Chop is F-air by the way. Just like to nickname it because for fun.

 

[hey_there]

Fair -> Dair if done quickly enough autocancels just like Fair -> Fair, so it's something to keep in mind, too.

 

[mrconcon]

Just so you guys know, Offstage Down b with minimal mashing b (slow descent) rhythm actually gimps Sheik at 0 percent. Due to Sheik's weight and being a fast faller, she gets caught in the cyclone w/o a lot of mashing and gets sent down below with hitstun. I've done it numerous times in tournament against Zero, Larry, and K9. If you catch her in her jump before the Up B goes, then its over.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Just so you guys know, Offstage Down b with minimal mashing b (slow descent) rhythm actually gimps Sheik at 0 percent. Due to Sheik's weight and being a fast faller, she gets caught in the cyclone w/o a lot of mashing and gets sent down below with hitstun. I've done it numerous times in tournament against Zero, Larry, and K9. If you catch her in her jump before the Up B goes, then its over.

Is there a reason you would want to do minimal mashing instead of max mashing if you caught their jump? Or was it a general statement for those who may not be able to mash that well?

 

[MrTeddyBear]

I don't know if people know this already, but you can actually tech Luigi's down taunt. I found out after I read a Wario's attack with down taunt, and then he teched in place (he probably meant to shield since he seemed to stop in surprise) and I hit him with an F-Smash right after.

 

[TriTails]

I don't know if people know this already, but you can actually tech Luigi's down taunt. I found out after I read a Wario's attack with down taunt, and then he teched in place (he probably meant to shield since he seemed to stop in surprise) and I hit him with an F-Smash right after.

CPUs do that all the time .

 

[CAN-ACTION]

Is it truly bad I barely ever combo with Luigi?

I've never really been interested into the smash community until very recently. And I've always just relied on myself on how to play, well aside from viewing how others would play. But would never discuss plays with anybody else.

I literally just jump into the game with $2-$3slices in the beginning, and do whatever in the moment I have to do (baiting with fireballs, luring the opponent, KO'ing with charged up/down/side smash and finding every opportunity to KO with Super Jump Punch or down taunt.

But then again, the highest I've gotten for past 100 matches in FG is 79%. And the only tournament I got into a few days ago, I tied 5th place in some 17-man tournament online. The local smash scene is pretty dead here, so those are pretty much the only credentials I have lol. I guess I could do with learning some combos and learning his weaknesses & strengths, and maybe physics more in depth.

Also, uhh, anybody want to play on the 3DS y/n- I feel like testing my Luigi with other Luigi mains. (Or, is there a more appropriate place for this here?)

 

[CapnMelon]

Is it truly bad I barely ever combo with Luigi?

I've never really been interested into the smash community until very recently. And I've always just relied on myself on how to play, well aside from viewing how others would play. But would never discuss plays with anybody else.

I literally just jump into the game with $2-$3slices in the beginning, and do whatever in the moment I have to do (baiting with fireballs, luring the opponent, KO'ing with charged up/down/side smash and finding every opportunity to KO with Super Jump Punch or down taunt.

But then again, the highest I've gotten for past 100 matches in FG is 79%. And the only tournament I got into a few days ago, I tied 5th place in some 17-man tournament online. The local smash scene is pretty dead here, so those are pretty much the only credentials I have lol. I guess I could do with learning some combos and learning his weaknesses & strengths, and maybe physics more in depth.

Also, uhh, anybody want to play on the 3DS y/n- I feel like testing my Luigi with other Luigi mains. (Or, is there a more appropriate place for this here?)

It definitely wouldn't hurt to learn some of Weegee's combos, as most of them are very effective at getting free damage and easy to learn. Most of smash game-play is composed of watching your opponent's actions and acting to counter what they're doing, which you don't seem to have a problem with. However, at low percents if you can manage to land a grab, combo-ing out of down throw is almost always a better option than not combo-ing out of downthrow, because weegee's true combo out of downthrow is a very safe option for the most part.

Some example combos would be:
(At low percents)
d-throw -> Short hop -> F-air -> F-air
d-throw -> short hop -> F-air -> Weegee Cyclone
d-throw -> Short hop -> F-Air -> U-air
And for a kill option,
d-throw -> full hop -> Up-B
Keep in mind that this combo works around 90%-110% on most characters, and is completely dependent on your opponent's DI, and most of them will DI it. Just something to keep in mind though.
Those combos are also very basic down throw combos, Weegee has a few more options at his disposal. I usually watch Boss to learn some of Weegee's options.

Also, you might want to save any replays where you get the Down taunt Spike in for glory, because that's pretty sick.