Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[Berserker.]

I'd be sunrises if he had an account. He's too busy winning xanadu

Here's his account page: http://smashboards.com/members/boss8.54339/

 

[Yonder]

Oh, I'm not sure how many people know about this, but report your tourney results here, Luigi is looking a little low!

http://smashboards.com/rankings/smash-wii-u.8/league/teams

So...if you haven't you should post your 2nd place win here @mrconcon

I'm guessing J Miller can't post his BEAST 5 win here, I don't know if he has an account.

 

[USPY.3620]

Hey all,

Took Luigi in a tournament yesterday (first sm4sh tournament), and got crushed. There was a glaring weakness in my game - my approach. It seems that Luigi has trouble doing that and getting within grab range (which is what makes Luigi Luigi).

Any recommendations or tips on how to approach? Want to start working on that part of my game.

 

[Yonder]

Hey all,

Took Luigi in a tournament yesterday (first sm4sh tournament), and got crushed. There was a glaring weakness in my game - my approach. It seems that Luigi has trouble doing that and getting within grab range (which is what makes Luigi Luigi).

Any recommendations or tips on how to approach? Want to start working on that part of my game.

Are you using fireballs are tornado enough? Those are two of his most essential approach tools.


Anyways, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D9LKsglwzo

Some nice gameplay from False in Sax. 4-0 in grand finals. I noticed his distinction is using U smash for ledge punishes and crawls. I can see the crawls for lasers which was well done, and reading Fox's illusion with the U smashes was well done. Interesting how he never cyclones once. At all. Not even for recovery.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

The thing with Cyclone is that if they block it or fly out before the last hit you're gonna get punished badly. I've lost plenty of stocks and even games due to being punished for using Cyclone. I've been using it sparingly now. And I use it at awkward times. I might use it as I'm falling back to the stage from offstage. Might use it as a punish or from a Dthrow. I might randomly use it as an approach. But ever since I stopped relying on it I've been getting better results

 

[1PokeMastr]

Are you using fireballs are tornado enough? Those are two of his most essential approach tools.


Anyways, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D9LKsglwzo

Some nice gameplay from False in Sax. 4-0 in grand finals. I noticed his distinction is using U smash for ledge punishes and crawls. I can see the crawls for lasers which was well done, and reading Fox's illusion with the U smashes was well done. Interesting how he never cyclones once. At all. Not even for recovery.

That's because he can't mash it.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Cyclone recovery with a double jump doesn't even require much mashing. On the other hand, if you cannot control your mashing then there's a good chance that you mash too much, come up above the ledge, and get punished. Also, if you recover with Cyclone, you're vulnerable for a bit after you finish and that could lead to a gimp with good timing.

Another thing I saw... This is by no means guaranteed but it happened 3 times yesterday with 3 different people. I attempt to recover low. My opponent tries to gimp me. I quickly double jump->Up b. Aerial sweetspot. Massive damage or a kill. This is so satisfying and makes it a bit scary to try to spike Luigi. Again, it's not guaranteed but still cool and a big momentum changer

EDIT: Happened two more times yesterday
EDIT2: Last edit but it happened another two times. Seriously this works when people directly above you try to edgeguard

 

[Peru]

After seeing J Miller beat Diddy at Beast 5, I've actually become more wanting of this match. More for the practice, but also the satisfaction of beating a Diddy with my Luigi.

LETSA GO

 

[Emuser012]

Kill percents with Luigi's Up-B assuming Final Destination or Omega maps. I haven't tested all of the Omega stages yet, these vary a bit on other stages. Add 1-3% for Battlefield's floor, take away 1-2% for Town and City's floor. Screw Lylat.

Ok so while messing around figuring out kill percents for Rest, someone on the Jigglypuff boards pointed out something very peculiar...in case anyone had doubts about this chart, it turns out that something is different between training mode and a real vs match.

I couldn't believe it but somehow it doesn't surprise me that something like this exists. You see those numbers up there? Take Mario and Luigi for example. On Omega Windy Hill Zone training, Mario and Luigi will die at 66 and 63 respectively. But in vs mode on the same stage, Mario and Luigi will die at 63 and 60 respectively. Why ;_;

 

[Lavani]

Training uses the base power of attacks, and doesn't have stale move negation.

Attacks in actual battles do x1.05 damage when they're fresh.

 

[Emuser012]

Well ****.

This whole time I thought that training mode treated all moves as fresh...smh. So take away 3% for each of those numbers in the chart x_x

 

[meleebrawler]

Training uses the base power of attacks, and doesn't have stale move negation.

Attacks in actual battles do x1.05 damage when they're fresh.

And I think there's also no rage in training. Except for Lucario's aura.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

So I was in training mode yesterday messing with some Dthrow->Dair spike stuff. I was getting some awesome combos in:

• spike->Bair (kill move)
• spike->Fair
• spike->Nair (kill move)
• spike->FF Nair->Utilt (low percent combo)

All of these were true combos (registered as a 2 or 3 in the Consec. Hits counter). So I decided to try my luck on some real people in For Glory. I went for the combo and then I remembered...the other player can just tech the bounce, air dodge out of the bounce, or do an immediate aerial. So even though it registers as true, it's not necessarily guaranteed.

I wouldn't recommend attempting this combo unless for style points. Under 60%, the opponent just sticks to the ground allowing for followups which could be useful so I would attempt in that situation.

 

[TriTails]

Add in spike to FJP and Cyclone. FJP so far the coolest one .

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Yeah it is but I've only ever got that once in training. Pretty tight execution

Spike->Cyclone is something I haven't tried yet actually. You can pull someone really high if they bounce then you Cyclone rise while you're already a full hop in the air

 

[Deleted member]

Add in spike to FJP and Cyclone. FJP so far the coolest one .

The Fire Jump Punch has a spike?
Where is it located and when can it be triggered?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

They were saying to use a Fire Jump Punch after the spike

 

[Deleted member]

They were saying to use a Fire Jump Punch after the spike

Oh! Sorry, I'm a bit drowsy right now and I misread that.

I haven't had a chance to truly use Luigi's spike on stage. Most of the time after a down throw, I can only fair them because they DI away from me. In the air, I sometimes get punished or juggled around, so I haven't had too many opportunities to use it.

 

[DJ Delta]

Anyone ever try down throw in to nothing?? People are so afraid of getting hit by a follow-up they usually throw out a panic nair or air dodge. After this I regrab or if they air dodge, get a grounded up b. It's a pretty good mix-up, especially against counter characters or heavy characters at mid-high percents. Heaver characters are so afraid of down throw combos due to their size, and getting them to air dodge you can up b them. Also good since they can be hard to kill due to their weight (i.e. D3, Bowser, DK).

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Anyone ever try down throw in to nothing?? People are so afraid of getting hit by a follow-up they usually throw out a panic nair or air dodge. After this I regrab or if they air dodge, get a grounded up b. It's a pretty good mix-up, especially against counter characters or heavy characters at mid-high percents. Heaver characters are so afraid of down throw combos due to their size, and getting them to air dodge you can up b them. Also good since they can be hard to kill due to their weight (i.e. D3, Bowser, DK).

Do you empty jump after the Dthrow or literally do nothing but get in position to punish?

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Anyone ever try down throw in to nothing?? People are so afraid of getting hit by a follow-up they usually throw out a panic nair or air dodge. After this I regrab or if they air dodge, get a grounded up b. It's a pretty good mix-up, especially against counter characters or heavy characters at mid-high percents. Heaver characters are so afraid of down throw combos due to their size, and getting them to air dodge you can up b them. Also good since they can be hard to kill due to their weight (i.e. D3, Bowser, DK).

I did this to a friend at the ledge into taunt spike. It was hilarious.

 

[TriTails]

I did.

Let me tell you all one story of mine.

I faced Marth.
I D-throw'd him.
He panicked and airdodged.
I just did nothing but U-smash him.
HE WASN'T KOED YET!
I repeat.
He fall for it, again.
HE WASN'T KOED YET!
I repeat once more.
He fall for it AGAIN!
He eats my third U-smash so hard and finally KOed XD.

And yes, when fighting someone who likes to airdodge, I usually D-throw them at 110% or so, let them air dodge, and U-smash . I have never tried FJP yet, but if you want lesser risk (And of course, lesser reward), U-smash is a good option.

 

[Yonder]

So I finally, finally got to try out the Wii U version with a GC remote, since I went to my uni's gaming club for a smash tourney.

It was doubles apparently...and I was stuck with the odd person out. Needless to say we won our first match, but lost the next two. Only because my partner was a terrible Shulk who didn't know how to play, only spamming backslash and counter and SDing a lot. Since everyone else was at least adept [They all suffered from predictable smash attack/counter use though, imo]...I was stuck fending off 2 people at once most the time. I held on for a while though before dying. Oh well, at least my partner was a...alright looking girl, so I could forgive her ;P. Although on the 3DS version I was undefeated 1 v 1, I even beat a Falcon without taking a hit. Also, doubles is weird...I don't like the fact that you can hurt teammates. I know it's good for recovery assists, but I found myself pelting my teammate a lot too which sucked[ Couldn't use my laser once without hitting my teammate on the ground as ROB]. Oh well, maybe it's a teamwork thing. And it's 1V1 tourney next week. Let the fun commence. Least I met new people. Everyone thought my Luigi was amazing.

Aaaaanyways, back to the gameplay portion I wanted to spout here about Luigi. Virtually the same as the 3DS version, cyclone travels horizontally in the air better? [probably just me]

But the biggest pleasant surprise: Luigi can kill earlier!! Like, nair hits like a truck in the Wii U version, bair does, U smash, they all kill earlier, around 120% as opposed to 140-150%. So yeah, I really like Luigi n the Wii U version, he doesn't struggle to kill so much. If he's top 15-20th in the 3DS version, he's 12-15th on the Wii U. Very impressed.

I know you all know the Wii U gameplay stuff already, but just my thoughts.

 

[DJ Delta]

Do you empty jump after the Dthrow or literally do nothing but get in position to punish?

I meant do nothing, but actually do the later too, especially when I down throw them close to the ledge. It's easier to land a dair after baiting an air dodge and fall into them.

 

[Yonder]

So, anyone notice if anything was changed about Luigi in the newest 3DS patch? At first I thought his combos were nerfed and his tornado took less mashing to recover...but then it was just placebo.

 

[TriTails]

So, anyone notice if anything was changed about Luigi in the newest 3DS patch? At first I thought his combos were nerfed and his tornado took less mashing to recover...but then it was just placebo.

3DS had a new patch?

 

[Yonder]

3DS had a new patch?

Yep. New share feature allowing users to share replays, miis, and photos online. A few gameplay glitches are gone too, but not much else.

 

[TriTails]

I see. Well, I heard replays broke, but there doesn't seem to be any character changes...

Glad they didn't touched the D-throw.

 

[Yonder]

I see. Well, I heard replays broke, but there doesn't seem to be any character changes...

Glad they didn't touched the D-throw.

I actually thought they did for the first few mins [And buffed recovery] but that was the placebo. I'm too paranoid with patches now, Luigi is the perfect fighter in my eyes for me and I don't want him changed in the slightest. Ok, a hair more aerial speed would be nice, but things like that aren't really buffed in patches.

 

[TriTails]

I want that better aerial speed.

PLEASE NINTENDO! MAKE IT HAPPEN!

No, not something crazy like Mario's but about Doc's level?

Meh, maybe just above Ganon... then what does that actually mean? It's still as slow as heck.

Anyway, the legendary D-throw is still with us, that is good.

 

[Deleted member]

I see. Well, I heard replays broke, but there doesn't seem to be any character changes...

Glad they didn't touched the D-throw.

I doubt that Nintendo would touch Luigi's down throw. Seeing how he plays in Smash 4, it seems as though he was designed with his down throw in mind.

EDIT: About the update, I believe that you can't see your old replays, meaning that some characters got buffed and nerfed.

 

[TriTails]

Not neccesarily. They probably fixed some huge bugfixes, or just tighten their timings so the old button inputs don't work anymore.

Though... it's probably more to the 'You can share your replays' thing that somehow broke the replays.

I heard no charater changes were found aside from bugfixes, so Diddy is currently still the broken top tier with his gamebreaking Hoo Hah and his other shenanigans.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah, I didn't think about the new replay feature screwing it up...

I don't think there were too many balance changes. I only heard that some custom moves, such as Link's Power Bow, were slightly altered to match the Wii U version.
I'm honestly not expecting any major balance changes until Mewtwo and the other DLC are released.

 

[hey_there]

tornado took less mashing to recover...but then it was just placebo.

The power was in you all along

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItWasWithYouAllAlong

 

[Soupy]

Reading this last page, I'm glad that everyone else is drunk on those dair spike combos. Dair spike > up b and dair spike to bair have been my favorites things for the past couple of days haha. So stylish.

 

[Leeyam]

Sup guys a few questions

- When to go for dthrow nair to kill and when dthrow cyclone?

- My neutral game with Luigi if we are both not on a platform pretty much consists of grabbing, jabbing, fireballs, and occasionally ftilt if they're a little too far for a grab/jab. Is this the same for everyone else?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Sup guys a few questions

- When to go for dthrow nair to kill and when dthrow cyclone?

I've been opting for Dthrow -> Cyclone only. It kills earlier and is more reliable IMO. At the same time, it's also riskier. If you miss the Cyclone or they fall out, you're now at a disadvantage and have to figure out how to safely return to the stage. If you miss with Nair you're usually in a better position to regain footing.

- My neutral game with Luigi if we are both not on a platform pretty much consists of grabbing, jabbing, fireballs, and occasionally ftilt if they're a little too far for a grab/jab. Is this the same for everyone else?

That's good if you're staying grounded. All Luigi's aerials except maybe Uair are useful in the neutral game as well. Also Cyclone is not bad for a mix up in neutral but don't over use it.

One thing I haven't seen Luigi players talk about.... Nair counter attack -> rising cyclone.
This works pretty well but it's situational of course. When you're launched in the air and someone tries to come after you, you can throw out a Nair. Nair will pop them directly above you. Then you can double jump into a rising cyclone for an early kill. Not guaranteed because some aerials have more priority or they're disjointed.

 

[Soupy]

I dont go for dthrow nair that often to be honest. I probably should because it has pretty solid kill potential. I've never thought about rising cyclone along with that though? I'll have to try that out.

 

[Leeyam]

All Luigi's aerials except maybe Uair are useful in the neutral game as well.

Sometimes it is really difficult doing aerials in neutral though, just because you get stuck in the air since Luigi is so floaty and your opponent can take advantage

Nair counter attack sounds cool, I'd just think that most attacks would be able to outrange you when they're following up. Nair out of airdodge is so ****ing fast that it could also be a really good option in this regard

 

[Soupy]

Sometimes it is really difficult doing aerials in neutral though, just because you get stuck in the air since Luigi is so floaty and your opponent can take advantage

Agreed. I like to short hop and jump backwards a lot during neutral just because I like to constantly be moving and I've had to force myself to stop when I play against a sonic player because it's like 20 billion free opportunities to just run up and smack me.