Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[Yonder]

So zero states that Luigi is top 5/ top 7 in this game, and that m2k shares the same opinion. Do you guys agree or disagree with this sentiment?

Source?

But anyways, lol no. Zero and M2K literally say "insert character here" is top 5 every week. They literally did the same with Mario. I know they are good players, but I would take their opinions on tiers with a huge grain of salt.

Luigi is not top 5 though. Not even top 10. 15 is a major stretch and improbable. Anything else though seems ok, I think around 16-20.

Remember guys, for all of Luigi's best combos in the game, he's not any faster in the air, traction is still bad, and his fireballs are just...meh. Also his grab range isn't great. He can still be kept out by swords and his recovery is sub-par compared to other higher characters like Villager.

Of course, I don't have the Wii U version sadly, I hear he kills earlier in it though which is a huge plus. Also perfect pivoting might hold some huge warrant for Luigi in the future. Honestly, if perfect pivoting gets mastered by Luigi, allowing him to attack with moves that would leave him just out of range, he'll be top 15.

And if Luigi somehow also finds someone to master the D throw to dair chaingrab along with perfect pivoting...then I could possibly say top 10. But I have yet to see Dair chaingrab even applied to a match yet so I don't hold much regard for it.

Isn't it funny how far the green plumber has come from a "bottom 3?" character?

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Source?

But anyways, lol no. Zero and M2K literally say "insert character here" is top 5 every week. They literally did the same with Mario. I know they are good players, but I would take their opinions on tiers with a huge grain of salt.

Luigi is not top 5 though. Not even top 10. 15 is a major stretch and improbable. Anything else though seems ok, I think around 16-20.

Remember guys, for all of Luigi's best combos in the game, he's not any faster in the air, traction is still bad, and his fireballs are just...meh. Also his grab range isn't great. He can still be kept out by swords and his recovery is sub-par compared to other higher characters like Villager.

Of course, I don't have the Wii U version sadly, I hear he kills earlier in it though which is a huge plus. Also perfect pivoting might hold some huge warrant for Luigi in the future. Honestly, if perfect pivoting gets mastered by Luigi, allowing him to attack with moves that would leave him just out of range, he'll be top 15.

And if Luigi somehow also finds someone to master the D throw to dair chaingrab along with perfect pivoting...then I could possibly say top 10. But I have yet to see Dair chaingrab even applied to a match yet so I don't hold much regard for it.

Isn't it funny how far the green plumber has come from a "bottom 3?" character?

It was from one of his recent interviews after winning an SSS for smash 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ7Ehn0RQ_I

Yeah I can't see him being top 10, his recovery and limited approach/air mobility really hinder him. He's still good but top 10/15 is a bit stretching it.
Although I may be wrong here.

And yeah he went from "Luigi sucks and the only people who lose to him are bad players" to "LUIGI IS BROKEN" (Twitch chat) and "Luigi is top 7"

He's better in the wii u version solely because he can kill sooner due to smaller blast zones. And a controller that doesn't feel like it's going to break any second also helps.

 

[Luigi#1]

After having more time with the game, I also agree that he should be 15-20 in the tier list, probably 18-20. Whatever, at least he's good.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Luigi will probably be around 15-20. I really think that he his viable with all of his buffs, freestyle down-throw combos, and the fact that some of his moves kill early. However, I think that he has flaws when it comes to spacing, approaching, and recovering. There is also the fact that Luigi's attacks can still easily be punished...

Whatever the case may be, I think that Luigi will be at least mid-tier. I'm glad that many Luigi mains out there have been showing that he is viable and that he isn't "garbage."

 

[hey_there]

Luigi's tier placing isn't that important imo. What is important is that Luigi has the tools to win against any other character. For once I can play my favourite character and not have to worry about running into an unwinninable match up.

When I first started playing smash 4, I was seriously considering dropping Luigi because he felt like garbage. Now I know that Luigi is a complete monster =D.

 

[Salad Bowl]

http://smashboards.com/threads/poke...ypuff-matchup-thread-discussing-luigi.384478/
Guys us jiggly mains are starting the luigi MU. Can you guys help please? Thank you in advance.

 

[Robbie Erizo Blue Welch]

LOL!!! HES IN THE BACK SEAT!!!

 

[FEFIZ]

"He's (Luigi) better in the wii u version solely because he can kill sooner due to smaller blast zones." Someone can explain me this better? Thanks!

PS: I know the meaning of blast zones, but why this make Luigi stronger?

 

[Folt]

Smaller blast zones means everyone kills at lower percents, which Luigi benefits from due to powerful early-killing moves like F-Smash and Up B and so on.

 

[Yonder]

Smaller blast zones means everyone kills at lower percents, which Luigi benefits from due to powerful early-killing moves like F-Smash and Up B and so on.

Yep. Also I've seen nair become a reliable killer from D throw [Boss], something that would be quite a game changer with Luigi getting earlier kills. I struggle getting kills while on the 3ds version a lot.

 

[Tbagz]

has anyone figured out the "sweet spot" for the Dthrow< Tornado kill method? I feel like im hitting it often, but not KOing at the percentages I think it should be. I'm having a hard time KOing with Luigi, causing me to fail on capitalizing my disgusting lead I almost always have.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

has anyone figured out the "sweet spot" for the Dthrow< Tornado kill method? I feel like im hitting it often, but not KOing at the percentages I think it should be. I'm having a hard time KOing with Luigi, causing me to fail on capitalizing my disgusting lead I almost always have.

http://smashboards.com/threads/dthrow-cyclone-video.384079/

This thread gives some helpful info on using that specific combo. It also contains a very helpful video. But the short answer to your question is to catch your opponent at the edge of the tornado and try to mash as high as you can

 

[Tbagz]

http://smashboards.com/threads/dthrow-cyclone-video.384079/

This thread gives some helpful info on using that specific combo. It also contains a very helpful video. But the short answer to your question is to catch your opponent at the edge of the tornado and try to mash as high as you can

I appreciate it, that was a great guide. thanks man!

 

[crashbfan]

hey weegees, what's the best dthrow combo to rack up damage at low %? when at high %, I'm going for that cyclone kill. But I find myself doing weird combos at low %.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

The BnB Dthrow combo is Dthrow->Fair->Fair. The cool thing about Luigi is that you can freestyle and vary your combos using any aerial (Bair and Dair are situational and can be iffy). At low percents on heavier characters you can get Dthrow->Usmash or Dthrow->Utilts->aerial.

Many of the Dthrow combos can be varied based on percentage and character weight. The freestyle aspect is what makes him so much fun. Test some things out and see what kind of cool things you can do. Most of his moveset is available when it comes to Dthrow combos

 

[The Carpenter]

A low percent combo that usually works for me (very low percent) is wavedash up to opponent, short hop down air immediately followed by a Nair, from which point the combo is continued as long as possible using whatever moves are appropriate based on the opponents positioning at that point.

 

[Yonder]

A low percent combo that usually works for me (very low percent) is wavedash up to opponent, short hop down air immediately followed by a Nair, from which point the combo is continued as long as possible using whatever moves are appropriate based on the opponents positioning at that point.

Err...wavedash? We aren't talking about Melee, right?

 

[The Carpenter]

Err...wavedash? We aren't talking about Melee, right?

Sorry my mistake, I didn't even notice this thread was about smashU at first. Nevertheless, That combo should work in any game without the wavedash too

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

What do you guys think about showcasing each move Luigi has for a day to a week (depending on the depth of the move) in order to help all Luigi mains know the ins and outs to his moves as well as when to use them?

Should it be done here or should a separate moveset thread be created?

 

[Yonder]

What do you guys think about showcasing each move Luigi has for a day to a week (depending on the depth of the move) in order to help all Luigi mains know the ins and outs to his moves as well as when to use them?

Should it be done here or should a separate moveset thread be created?

I remember something similar was done on the Brawl boards, only the move was rated on a scale of 1 to 5 per week. And it was done as a narrative by Luigi via journal entrys from Paper Mario, was quite informative and fun to read.

I'd be down.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Awesome. I don't quite have the creative abilities to do something as a narrative if we went down that route but I might be able to put something together lol. I'll make a thread for it possibly this weekend.

 

[hey_there]

After having some serious issues against Villager and Lucario I've decided that I should take up a secondary to help deal with these match ups because of how one-sided they can get sometimes. But I'm not sure which character gives the best match up against them. Fox maybe?

Does anyone use any secondaries to cover Luigi's bad match ups? And if so, which ones and why?

 

[Yonder]

After having some serious issues against Villager and Lucario I've decided that I should take up a secondary to help deal with these match ups because of how one-sided they can get sometimes. But I'm not sure which character gives the best match up against them. Fox maybe?

Does anyone use any secondaries to cover Luigi's bad match ups? And if so, which ones and why?

R.O.B is nice against Lucario, his beam and gyro stop him from charging his aura ball often. I like R.O.B in general for most long ranged fights, he has a projectile of his own, a good recovery, and even a reflector [not a great one, but it reflects most things a normal one like Fox does].

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

After having some serious issues against Villager and Lucario I've decided that I should take up a secondary to help deal with these match ups because of how one-sided they can get sometimes. But I'm not sure which character gives the best match up against them. Fox maybe?

Does anyone use any secondaries to cover Luigi's bad match ups? And if so, which ones and why?

I'm starting to pick up Pit for a lot of the same reasons Yonder mentioned. Plus Pit is pretty quick and has disjointed aerials


On another note, I was trying all kinds of things to break Luigi last night (Get guaranteed misfires, shorten lag on Cyclone, Green missle, and Up b, easier tornado rise with no jump, etc). All attempts failed lol. But I did notice that you can fast fall Luigi's Up B. I don't really see anyone do it so idk if it's well known. It doesn't decrease the lag but it can help you grab the ledge faster if you Up B by ledge or don't sweetspot the recovery

 

[Seth B.]

I'm starting to pick up Pit for a lot of the same reasons Yonder mentioned. Plus Pit is pretty quick and has disjointed aerials

Would you say Dark Pit would work just as well? I just assume seeing as they have only minor differences.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Yeah of course. I just prefer Pit because I like his arrows and side B better

 

[hey_there]

I'm starting to pick up Pit for a lot of the same reasons Yonder mentioned.

One thing I really like about Fox is speed + reflector > Villager, which is the hardest Luigi match up imo. Taking on Lucario is also nice too. I can see Pit and/or ROB being pretty cool as well.

 

[Seth B.]

One thing I really like about Fox is speed + reflector > Villager, which is the hardest Luigi match up imo. Taking on Lucario is also nice too. I can see Pit and/or ROB being pretty cool as well.

Fox definitely is a great secondary for Luigi. Especially look into his reflector for matches against Villager and for Lucario I would typically play some mind games and lead in with a shorthop Nair. But this isn't a Fox discussion thread so I'll shut up. Point is: Fox is a good follow up for Weegee

 

[TTTTTsd]

Us incredibly kind folks at the Doc boards tested Doc's Nado vs. Luigi's Nado in terms of priority and the results bode well for both characters. As a lot of people say, Doc's Nado has really good priority and beats a lot of things, and through testing we can confirm that Luigi's nado has that same priority as well! (At least, we believe this to be the case)

It's not as monstrous of an edgeguard (Doc's can kill Bowser at 70% no rage, assuming no DI, as an edgeguard) or arguably as offensive or crucial of a move as it is to Doc, but hey, it's something to keep in mind!

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

If you drop down until you see yourself in the bubble then double-jump->Cyclone you should rise just enough to be under the ledge and not pop up above it to be punished. Then you can up b to grab ledge

 

[Kyle Strand]

Did anyone get the chance to watch Smash 4 at Beast 5? J Miller took the tournament with Luigi! Everyone should also check out False. He swaps between sheik and luigi for characters

 

[hey_there]

Did anyone get the chance to watch Smash 4 at Beast 5? J Miller took the tournament with Luigi! Everyone should also check out False. He swaps between sheik and luigi for characters

Someone made a thread about this already. It was really awesome to see him win though ^_^.

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-won-b-e-a-s-t-5-smash-wiiu-singles.386413/

So after trying out Fox for a while I have to say he really does take out Villager, but I don't really like his playstyle that much. I decided to try out Mario because a few people on the Villager boards said that Mario is one of their tough match ups. Personally I like Mario better than Fox. I really love the feel of his speed and combo game. And his playstyle is easy adjust to because of all the shared moves with Luigi.

 

[Yonder]

Mario is a great secondary for Luigi too. You sacrifice more kill options, recovery, and combo ability for gimps, reflecting, and mobility.

I've been playing with a wide pool of characters [I'm only good with 2 lol] just to test the waters of who I like using in certain matchups. Some are:

Villager: Mario [Cape = Bye gyroid/slingshot spam]
Lucario: Game and Watch [Bucket his aura spheres]
Ness: Game and Watch [Bucket his recovery and projectiles]
Falco: Mario [Laser spam and U tilt works better for combos here, recovery gimp]
Falcon: ROB [Lasers and gyro keep Falcon out to match his mobility and range, U throw to uair works great, gimpable]
Mega Man: ROB, Mario [Both reflect projectiles, ROB has a faster one but worse reflector, Mario has worse projectile but better reflector.]
Pac Man: ROB [Laser keeps Pac Man from charging fruit, can't gimp with hydrant]
Jigglypuff: DK [Easy to kill via headbutt as she spends time in air, can be meteor smashed with well time aerials, can't be wall of pained due to his up B, wins on range, kills extra early]

Not to say Luigi loses they matchups by a ton or anything, [about 55:45 for all listed sans Villager, which is higher] and Luigi can handle these, but they are his trickiest matchups from personal experience. So these are some characters I like to use here if I'm versing a particularly good one.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

I am copy/pasting this message to every luigi board except for 64. I'm a luigi main/secondary throughout all the games (minus 64) and I for the life if me just can NOT use cyclone to recover. Everyone says: just mash. But I mash so hard I end up sweating and I still fall or just stay in the same place EVERY SINGLE TIME. So here is my question to you. How in the mother of balls do I go up with cyclone without expending a jump first? Please and thank you.

 

[Yonder]

I am copy/pasting this message to every luigi board except for 64. I'm a luigi main/secondary throughout all the games (minus 64) and I for the life if me just can NOT use cyclone to recover. Everyone says: just mash. But I mash so hard I end up sweating and I still fall or just stay in the same place EVERY SINGLE TIME. So here is my question to you. How in the mother of balls do I go up with cyclone without expending a jump first? Please and thank you.

I'm going to re-quote my advice on how to master the cyclone recovery without using a second jump:

Maybe Boss is related to this guy...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ4lmAFB7d4

In the video, the guy hits the button 16 times a second. So Boss needs 12 for the rise, I believe, which he can do. When you look at the video, there is a certain technique you can do to accomplish it, but it takes a LOT of practice to do consistently, and you need strong wrist.

First, notice how the guy does not actually move his finger at all? You have to vibrate the muscles in your wrist, not try tapping the button rapidly with your finger, it won't work. To get that rise, you HAVE to vibrate your wrist. Hard to explain, but if you concentrate your muscles in the wrist, your hand will vibrate very fast. With your finger on a button, it will automatically sync with your wrist vibration and mash the button without any applied force from the finger, acting from the wrist instead. I've tested it myself and I can do the wrist vibration, my taps per second do go up while using it, my record was 9/second once, but I'm not great at it. And I can't do it consistently, because it takes strong wrists and lots of concentration to constantly get that vibration in the write. Also, I don't know of the health repercussions from constantly doing it...

But anyways, that's my theory on how Boss does it. From watching the video and from personal tests and experience.

Try it yourself! http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm

So basically, focus on the wrist muscle movement and not your finger. Your finger will move according to how fast you can vibrate your wrist. It's difficult, and takes a lot of strength and consistency. But otherwise, there's no way around it. You just have to master the mashing. I know I haven't yet, but practicing my technique has helped a bit. But I only have the 3DS version so I am a bit limited there, works well on a Gamecube remote. You just got to practice, recovery was Luigi's biggest nerf in Smash 4.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

So it's not like there's a certain rhythm. You really do just have to "just mash"?

 

[Yonder]

So it's not like there's a certain rhythm. You really do just have to "just mash"?

Yep, that's all I can advise based on my own findings and experience. Mash like you've never mashed before. It was easier in Brawl because Luigi would hit the top of the screen with his cyclone after just a few mashes.

Unless Boss knows some secret trick, but I don't think he's active on these boards at all.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

I'd be sunrises if he had an account. He's too busy winning xanadu

 

[Yonder]

I'd be sunrises if he had an account. He's too busy winning xanadu

He does have an account on here called boss8 I believe. Just that he doesn't post as much. I remember him being pretty active in the Brawl Luigi boards though, it would be great to hear from him again.

 

[Emuser012]

Kill percents with Luigi's Up-B assuming Final Destination or Omega maps. I haven't tested all of the Omega stages yet, these vary a bit on other stages. Add 1-3% for Battlefield's floor, take away 1-2% for Town and City's floor. Screw Lylat.