Social The Koopa Prince: Bowser Jr - Come introduce yourself!

[Deleted member]

Or just not have Shadow Mario at all?

I mean really, it was the Paintbrush that gave Jr. the powers, not the transformation. The transformation was just icing on the cake, and a way to frame Mario.

As long as Jr. uses the Paintbrush, Shadow Mario is superfluous.

 

[BirthNote]

About this shadow mario business why not give mario an alt that looks like him and his fireballs could change to paint globs. that way they can focus on jr

I agree. Bowser Jr. doesn't need Shadow Mario. He only transformed into him in ONE game, and that was because he wore a black and dark blue kerchief, which as anyone could see IS NO LONGER AN ITEM OF HIS "CLOTHING". His magic paintbrush, however is still used and referenced in various Mario spinoffs.

Bowser Jr. doesn't need a Shadow Mario transformation and we don't need to play with one. He's got a staff-like brush, fire, mechs, and shell attacks. He can do most of what his koopa siblings can. Surely that's enough potential for moves, right?

 

[Deleted member]

I picture Bowser Jr. having below average speed stats but makes up for that in power. Not quite as slow or strong as Bowser but much stronger than say Squirtle who I picture both having the same body height. Coupled with his small height would make him a very hard character to both hit and KO.

And for those who care, I created some palette swaps for Bowser Jr. based on the Koopalings palette scheme and two on Bowser's palette swaps.

Brown Bowser Jr. Made to look like Morton Koopa Jr
Blue Bowser Jr. He is made to look like Larry Koopa.
Pink Bowser Jr. He is made to look like Roy Koopa.
Retro Bowser Jr. – Bowser Jr’s palette swap looks a lot like Bowser’s 2nd palette swap.
Grey Bowser Jr. – Bowser Jr.’s palette swap looks a lot like Bowser’s 5th palette swap.

Making Bowser Jr.'s alternate colors look like the Koopalings would be neat to see.

Would be awesome if he had alternate colors for Iggy, Lemmy, and Ludwig as well. I'd say Wendy as well, but she's female and I don't know how well that's going to fit.

 

[BKupa666]

Bowser Jr. is a much better small, but powerful character than Toad, IMO, because he has a boatload of original attacks to use outside of that basic outline.

Toad can throw bombs from an archaic puzzle game? Jr. can sling paint around the stage to gradually poison characters, turn the stage floor into a slippery danger zone, or even bog characters down into a pitfall effect.

Since Bowser's color schemes are apparently based off of the Koopalings, I see no reason why Jr's can't be as well.

Let Shadow Mario be a taunt and nothing more.

 

[Waluigi]

Or just not have Shadow Mario at all?

I mean really, it was the Paintbrush that gave Jr. the powers, not the transformation. The transformation was just icing on the cake, and a way to frame Mario.

As long as Jr. uses the Paintbrush, Shadow Mario is superfluous.

Meh i just like the idea of an alt but then again cosmic mario looksmore or less the same and would be a bit more relevant

 

[MelMoe]

While I do like Toad, I think Jr. would be more fun to play as. He doesn't even have to use a paintbrush, however it is preferred. I'm on the fence with Jr., Paper Mario, & Toad...but I think Jr. has an edge.

Let Shadow Mario be a taunt and nothing more.

You know if that happens people are going to ask why he isn't playable.

 

[BKupa666]

That could become a complaint, but honestly, who is actively demanding for Shadow Mario as a playable character? This is hardly a case of Ganondorf pulling out his sword...

Plus, if it's really that big a deal, have Shadow Mario become an unlockable alt. for regular Mario, since his status as an identical clone was one of Sunshine's major plot points.

Jr. is far more unique than most, if not all potential Mario newcomers, and doesn't need Shadow Mario to display said uniqueness (having a transformation would make him less interesting, if anything).

 

[Opossum]

Maybe he can be a bit more than a taunt. And by that, I mean used in a victory animation.

 

[MelMoe]

That could become a complain, but honestly, who is actively demanding for Shadow Mario as a playable character? This is hardly a case of Ganondorf pulling out his sword...

Plus, if it's really that big a deal, have Shadow Mario become an unlockable alt. for regular Mario, since his status as an identical clone was one of Sunshine's major plot points.

Jr. is far more unique than most, if not all potential Mario newcomers, and doesn't need Shadow Mario to display said uniqueness (having a transformation would make him less interesting, if anything).

Yeah, I agree that Bowser Jr. would be fine on his own. Making Shadow Mario a clone is unnecessary. His specials could be unique but Luigi already covers the "luigified" Mario.

 

[BirthNote]

Maybe he can be a bit more than a taunt. And by that, I mean used in a victory animation.

I like this idea.

 

[Veggi]

The thing about Shadow Mario is, from what I remember from Sunshine, he is the exact same as Mario as far as acrobatics are considered, but with the ability to use the paint brush.

So basically if Bowser Jr. transformed into Shadow Mario, it would basically just be Bowser Jr. with Mario's movement animations and stats. So yeah...it would basically just make Bowser Jr. more similar to Mario and he would lose the abilities related to him being Bowser's son.

 

[jigglover]

I agree. Bowser Jr. doesn't need Shadow Mario. He only transformed into him in ONE game, and that was because he wore a black and dark blue kerchief, which as anyone could see IS NO LONGER AN ITEM OF HIS "CLOTHING".

It was only a black and dark blue kerchief when he was shadow mario, generally, it's the regular neck-tie you usually see round his neck.

 

[BirthNote]

It was only a black and dark blue kerchief when he was shadow mario, generally, it's the regular neck-tie you usually see round his neck.

Nope. I just checked out a few cutscenes and its always the same no matter what in Sunshine. In all the other games, its the one that we see in the OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3FH9GEBsz8

 

[jigglover]

Oops, my mistake, thanks for clearing that up for me.
I'd still like people to comment on my 2/3 final smashes (no one has yet) just look for a long comment 1 or 2 pages back.

 

[gothrax]

Nope. I just checked out a few cutscenes and its always the same no matter what in Sunshine. In all the other games, its the one that we see in the OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3FH9GEBsz8

I clicked the vid and i was hoping to be able to find out whatever the heck the point was of it

But once mario ramed his head into that sign... i... couldn't take it .... the lack of dexterity was to overwhelming and i left :/

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I think a moveset with Bowser Jr. in a mini clown car would be interesting

 

[fogbadge]

why not? i dont usually play as bad guys but he'd still be an amusing inclusion

 

[BirthNote]

I clicked the vid and i was hoping to be able to find out whatever the heck the point was of it

But once mario ramed his head into that sign... i... couldn't take it .... the lack of dexterity was to overwhelming and i left :/

Skip to 4:00.

@Jigglover:
I like the Bullet Bill idea.

 

[jigglover]

/\ Thanks BirthNote. And gothrax, play through super mario sunshine and you will find, mario has a rock-hard head, although it must have affected his brain a bit, just a bit. He dives head-first off of cliffs, bangs his head scooching under-ground, crashes face-first into cruise-liners while riding a dark blue blooper etc, etc. If one simple bang on a wooden sign-post which should really have cracked is too bad for you, DO NOT PLAY THE GAME. On a side not (I'm not sure if I've mentioned this before) sunshine is my favourite mario game.

 

[B!squick]

Quoting what I had in the duplicate thread I stupidly made.

Let's face it. Bowser wasn't good in Melee. He wasn't good in Brawl. There's no reason to think this trend will change for SSB4 and the As of Now Unknown Subtitle. Fine. Then give us (one of) his son(s) and make him awesome.

I think he's a great choice. He's the only repeat Mario villain that's had more than a background roll (see: the other Koopalings). He's appeared in other party games. And he just looks so boss in that bandanna.

... Okay, well, maybe a little more cute than deadly, but still. >_>

I'd imagine his play style would be similar to Squirtle only a bit slower, a bit more power, and would use his paint brush in some fashion along with shooting actual fireballs. Not only would I be able to play (a) Bowser and not feel like I'm crippling myself, but this also works because I don't think Pokemon Trainer should be in the next game.

Let me be clear: I have nothing against PT outside of Smash nor in it. In fact, I think they should do a Pokemon game in the style of Smash so we can all finally live out our dream of using Pokemon in the same way they do in the show. I just don't think he's right for Smash as far as franchise representation. We already have Pikachu, the real star of the TV show; Jigglypuff, the odd favorite; and Lucario, the movie promo Pokemon. While PT is the one with the most direct connection to a Pokemon game (Yellow Version not withstanding) and it is the first one (er, ones), it's also the one with the most glitches, most broken game play (only one Dragon move that does set damage, no good Bug moves, Psychic types OP as ****), and it was the only generation that didn't carry over to the next game (not 100% sure on this).

You might argue that it's disconnection with the rest of the series is what makes it special, but I just have a feeling that they'd rather just forget about those first games. You might also argue that the Super Mario franchise has enough representation with Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser and that's a fair point. But this is the Nintendo franchise. Of course it's going to have a lot of representation.

I digress though. Bowser Jr., as a character, is way more fleshed out that other characters that are in the Smash games and could be in the Smash games. He's from the flagship series. And I think he just in general could be a lot of fun to play.

What say you Smash Boards?

Too tired to edit it so it doesn't look like an opening post for a thread. =_=

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

...
Why would you remove S.Mario from Bowser Jr., the whole point of Jr.'s Graffeti Staff was to introduce S.Mario, take both of those away...what do you have, a little talking turtle dragon, of course he's capable of a couple of other things, but What he's best known for outside of being Bowser's favorite son is his role as Shadow Mario w/ the Staff..

LONG LIVE THE PRINCE

 

[Deleted member]

He doesn't need Shadow Mario. He's completely capable of using the paintbrush without the alter ego.
The alter ego was only there to conceal his identity and frame Mario for his crimes.

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

He doesn't need Shadow Mario. He's completely capable of using the paintbrush without the alter ego.
The alter ego was only there to conceal his identity and frame Mario for his crimes.

Of course he doesn't need it, but certain people want it...
It was never the case with me, that "OH HE WOULD BE SOOO MUCH BETTER WITH SHADOW MARIO", no it was just the matter of the character for me & others for him to feel complete, pulling all the different characteristics together.
Take for example Mario, he has his cape, fireballs, Fludd...etc he feels like a complete character, Kirby the same way...etc..etc
His Shadow Mario form makes him feel complete to me, as well as his hoover teacup & it would feel the same if they just left that out & that's what brought him the most notice

 

[Deleted member]

It would make him feel "complete" if Shadow Mario wasn't just a one-trick pony. Shadow Mario is hardly iconic to him anymore. Just like Werehog, though Werehog was never really iconic to begin with.

What Jr. really needs is to use the paintbrush as a main weapon, use paint powers he has used with and without the Shadow Mario disguise, his Jr. Klown Kar (as a recovery), and Mecha Bowser as a Final Smash, in his testament to be like Papa and his knack for using gadgetry as of late.

 

[N3ON]

Including Shadow Mario seems like it would be similar to including Sheik (who was also a one-trick pony), except the only game where Bowser Jr. turns into Shadow Mario happened a decade ago, as opposed to three years previous. Plus Bowser Jr has expanded in character since then, and has shown capabilities to have a moveset not based on Shadow Mario or even the paintbrush. That said, I still believe there is a small chance he might have a Shadow Mario transformation if included (though I would prefer if he didn't).

Plus I think the term "complete character" is subjective. Personally I think a complete character is one that has a full moveset, even if it doesn't represent every aspect of that character's past (which would be very hard to do with some characters, given the limited amount of moves).

 

[Yoshi]

If, IF Bowser Jr. appears in Smash 4, I say make him change into Shadow Mario for his final smash and parody Mario's final smash (almost like a joke character). Given also Bowser Jr could, could have moves similar to Bowser.. I think it'd be hilarious having a villain being a slight parody of a hero then a homage to another villain. Maybe I'm reading to much into it...

 

[MelMoe]

Shadow Mario = clone or luigified Mario

Not needed. Luigi.

A final smash isn't too bad, I just prefer it to be something else.

 

[Oasis_S]

The only people that want Shadow Mario are those who don't understand what makes a character unique. They see Zelda and Sheik and think "that looks unique, so let's add another character that does the exact same thing." It's the whole reason people suggest Baby Bros. "We can have ANOTHER Ice Climbers! I mean they were unique!"

The hilarious part is some of them don't even see what really makes Junior unique. He's one of the more exciting characters moveset-wise, but they think "WITHOUT SHADOW MARIO YOU'RE LEFT WITH SOME BOWSER CLONE."

 

[jigglover]

I think that shadow mario should be in SSB4. No one on this site knows what a big deal mario sunshine is to Mario, Nintendo and the game cube. Let me explain:

The game cube was selling poorly, nobody was buying it since the games, which had good advertising, seemed rubbish none the less. Luigi's mansion seemed like a poor spin-off to many, realising afterwards that it would be revered as a classic adventure to many afterwards. Once adverts for super mario sunshine came out, everybody began buying the console and the game, since after that Nintendo put more work into the games; they needed to, or else they would get lots of hate from fans and rival companies since they'd think that they released sunshine just so that they can get rid of their consoles. Anyway, when the like of MK: DD and Pokemon colosseum came out, Nintendo began getting a lot of money from these sorts of games. They also realized something important, the graphics on the game cube were some of the best ever made at that time; they found this out while making super mario sunshine! This helped extraordinarily when starting a series like Pikmin or just making the one game.

Super Mario sunshine's importance to the Mario series is rather large as well. For one, it is the game that introduced a proper story-line and emotions to Mario. It wasn't incredibly deep, since Mario is a casual franchise, but it was there. The non-casual gamers (I don't want to say hard-core, because there's got to be some ground between casual and hard-core) should have seen it prior to the ending, but the casual gamers MUST have seen it in the closing clip. (It's pretty obvious).

In regards to Nintendo, basically the game cube (first) part of this emphasizing when it says: 'made money'.

Edit: Oasis, sunshine has no representation in smash, and it's one of the most important games to the Mario series and Nintendo (as stated above) Shadow mario shouldn't be in to make junior complete, he should be in for a much different reason.

 

[Oasis_S]

I think that shadow mario should be in SSB4. No one on this site knows what a big deal mario sunshine is to Mario, Nintendo and the game cube. Let me explain:

The game cube was selling poorly, nobody was buying it since the games, which had good advertising, seemed rubbish none the less. Luigi's mansion seemed like a poor spin-off to many, realising afterwards that it would be revered as a classic adventure to many afterwards. Once adverts for super mario sunshine came out, everybody began buying the console and the game, since after that Nintendo put more work into the games; they needed to, or else they would get lots of hate from fans and rival companies since they'd think that they released sunshine just so that they can get rid of their consoles. Anyway, when the like of MK: DD and Pokemon colosseum came out, Nintendo began getting a lot of money from these sorts of games. They also realized something important, the graphics on the game cube were some of the best ever made at that time; they found this out while making super mario sunshine! This helped extraordinarily when starting a series like Pikmin or just making the one game.

Super Mario sunshine's importance to the Mario series is rather large as well. For one, it is the game that introduced a proper story-line and emotions to Mario. It wasn't incredibly deep, since Mario is a casual franchise, but it was there. The non-casual gamers (I don't want to say hard-core, because there's got to be some ground between casual and hard-core) should have seen it prior to the ending, but the casual gamers MUST have seen it in the closing clip. (It's pretty obvious).

In regards to Nintendo, basically the game cube (first) part of this emphasizing when it says: 'made money'.

Shadow Mario has to be in Smash because of these reasons no one cares about and that have no bearing on what he could bring to the roster. Compelling.

 

[N3ON]

-snip-

Melee made more money and did more for the Gamecube than Sunshine did.

 

[jigglover]

Ok, Sheik has no guarantee of return, so junior and shadow mario could essentially replace them.

 

[Oasis_S]

Except Shadow Mario is useless so why bother.

 

[jigglover]

To represent super mario sunshine and to make an interesting character. He doesn't have to be a mario anything other than a vague appearance like him.

Oh, you must read very quickly to read my last comment in less than 2 minutes, do you want to actually go and read it and not scan/skim?

 

[Oasis_S]

Right because the only way to represent something is through characters. NICE TRY, DELFINO PLAZA.

And you keep forgetting that Shadow Mario doesn't add anything to the roster himself. No one is going to want to play as him because he's SYMBOLIC or something. The general audience isn't going to appreciate him for all the nerdy reasons you can come up with.

 

[N3ON]

Ok, Sheik has no guarantee of return, so junior and shadow mario could essentially replace them.

This is terrible logic. Just because Bowser Jr. could have a mechanic that would be similar to Zelda/Sheik, does not mean he would "replace them". The only thing that could replace Sheik anyway is a character with the exact same or very similar moveset (that's what replacing is), like Young Link to Toon Link.

Plus while there is some demand for Bowser Jr, there is very little demand for Shadow Mario, especially compared to Sheik. Plus Sheik is unique and popular, why would she not return?

To represent super mario sunshine and to make an interesting character. He doesn't have to be a mario anything other than a vague appearance like him.

Individual Mario games to this point haven't gotten specific representation in characters, and I doubt that will change (at least with SSB4). If Bowser Jr. is added, it won't be to represent a comparatively inferior and more than decade old game, it will be because of all his appearances total and importance to the franchise.

 

[jigglover]

If Bowser Jr. is added, it won't be to represent a comparatively inferior and more than decade old game, it will be because of his importance to the franchise.

Ok, how about shadow Mario represent the game cube for possible (very) new gamers?

No, Junior won't be added to represent a 'comparatively inferior game' as you say, but shadow Mario easily could. Also, as I've said, it's not a comparatively inferior game at all.

Right because the only way to represent something is through characters. NICE TRY, DELFINO PLAZA.

And you keep forgetting that Shadow Mario doesn't add anything to the roster himself. No one is going to want to play as him because he's SYMBOLIC or something. The general audience isn't going to appreciate him for all the nerdy reasons you can come up with.

Right for one, I actually forgot about delfino plaza... For two, the 'nerdy reasons' I read in ONM. For three, he could easily add something new to the roster, such as bringing generic enemies onto the stage, like a polluted piranha plant on to the battle-field for a down-B could be a good idea, and that's just off the top of my head while I have a head-ache.

 

[Oasis_S]

A polluted Piranha Plant from the paintbrush, yeah? That thing Junior holds? That thing Junior could also do without transforming?

Also saying you read that in ONM makes it even more nerdy. QUESTION: Do you only want Plusle & Minun to "represent" the third gen. Because you have to get your head out of that line of thinking. Add characters because they're GOOD, not because this is congress.

Spoiler

*HIGH FIVES STARPHOENIX*

 

[jigglover]

Right, basically what I'm saying is that at least two of bowser junior's specials should be sunshine based (we've got polluted piranha plant as down B) and I wanted Shadow Mario for a move-set encircled around sunshine.
Also, do you know what ONM is?

 

[Oasis_S]

Overtly Nerdy Magazine.