JayBee
Smash Champion
Playing Dedede vs. Everyone updated 7/15/08
This thread will be used to discuss the various strategies and tips that gives Dedede players more of an understanding on how play offensively and defensively against the rest of the cast. Most importantly, it will attempt to give out pointers against the characters that Dedede has an disadvantage against (in any form) and will discuss what to look for and how to respond accordingly. Please feel free to add more info and opinion so we can have an in-depth view of these matchups.
I realize there are other guides to all of his moves, complete with frames, attack power, and whatnot, so I won’t go into much detail about those. If you want to learn more about that, you should go to their threads first, then come here once you’re comfortable with the King or having matchup issues. Some of this may sound obvious to some of you guys, but I need to say it anyway in order to be complete and eliminate confusion. If you still see any error, please feel free to comment in a polite fashion. Some characters will be updated, edited and completed as this thread goes on; it is only using about a month of so worth of Brawl playing as reference (heavy Brawl playing, but still…) The information presented here now is based from what I've seen, read, and gotten advice from other good Smashers from The Art Institute of Washington, and against playing against those like CDOT, Lobos, and "Mario Guy" (forgot his tag, forgive me man, it was ZM something...)
Please compliment this guide with The Royal Guide/Faq of King Dedede by CO18. It contains important ifo regaurding the entire moveset, the numbers, and also includes addtional matchup information. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142229 Also the King DeDeDe Matchup Discussion by brawlerbrad91
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182310
General tips:
Generally, Dedede has a big advantage against people with no projectile, and most importantly, those he can chain grab, which gives him an easy building block to controlling the match. Conversely, those he cannot chain grab, and those who can spam projectiles better than he can give him the most problems. Faster characters can give him a harder time too if the opponent is focused on quick moves, throws, and turtling tactics, although the King can turtle too. He has to work harder to maintain proper spacing though.b Also, seeing as Ftilt is an important spacing tool, the easier you can do this, the easier the matchup tends to be, as it creates opportunities for chaingrabing, and his slower moves.
Pokes:
Use your Ftilt, Dtilt, Jabs, Jab Cancels, and Bairs as they are your best pokes, and can open up your grab game up close. In most cases, a single grab is all that is needed.
Other defenses:
At long range, Waddle Dees can negate most projectiles as long as they are in the path, and serve as a decent distraction, especially when Waddle Doo or Gordo are out. If your opponent like to roll a lot, use your up tilt over the Down Smash as the up tilt will usually clash with or usually beat your opponent’s counterattack on either side of you with its speed and priority, especially if you stick with quick attacks at that range. A quick Dair will catch them on either side and can eat their shield up, and with anticipation, a Bair will do nicely and is safe.
Throws against those that can’t be chain grabbed:
Your best option at most percentages is either the up throw or the down throw. Even though you can’t chain grab them with the Dthrow, it allows you to tech chase, and follow up with the Ftilt to Waddle Dee Throw to catch them as they roll. If you are clever enough you can rush with either a running grab if they stand up blocking or roll, Dash A if they love to sidestep, or even a random Jet Hammer to name a few options. Follow up the Up throw with a quick Uair to rack up damage and send them upwards, allowing the potential for a Bair or another Uair as they fall down. Use the Back and Forward Throw when at high percents to start edgegaurding.
Using FSmash: if you have any input plz post, but for me, the best times to use it, are:
1. as they approach the ledge from getting knocked off or as they gut up from the ledge
2. After a Dthrow
3. After a series of quick Jabs and tilts
4. After a Waddle Dee toss
even so i do it randomly to keep it from being punished too much, and sometimes I'll do it to let them know that i will, possible opening up other moves.
Using Waddle Doo: when a Waddle Doo hits tht field, they tend to stay for a while, and thier electric ability can give you an oppening for a powerful blow. When one comes out, try to stay with it and manuver around it in anticipation of this attack. Normally the opponent will either try to kill it. in this case, it serves more as a distraction that will help you get closer an possibly score some free hits. as a term, I call it "Waddle Assist" but whatever is fine i guess.
"Waddle Recovery" (haven't heard a name for it) : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164497 There is a thread here that describes a really good way to recover while attacking to make edgegaurdign against you harder. take a look. I wouldn't put it here because the guide isn't about this but agaisnt certain characters, this may help you a lot, and it's not hard to do.
With that out of the way, let's focus on individual matchups
Mario:
As one of the characters that King Dedede can chain grab infinitely, your primary focus is to grab him. But at the same time, Mario can, and probably will, abuse his fireballs and his quicker jabs to prevent this. The Waddle Dees can eat some of the fireballs, but you cannot throw them out like he can use his. Use your Waddle Dees at long range to at least have some on the field. When Mario approcahes with the fireballs, resist the temptation to roll towards him. Either throw Waddles Dees in the air, or use the bair to counter his air approach. Throw Jabs , jab cancels, and Dtilts to pressure a roll. At this point all Mario can do is try to guess what you’ll do and hope to dodge right. Most likely counterattacks to expect from a Mario involve the Down Smash, Up tilt, Jab into throw, and the sex kick, but you Bair is better. Once off the edge, Watch for the Super Jump Punch (Up Special). Dedede can have full control over this matchup due to the free damage from grabs.
Luigi:
As one of the characters that King Dedede can chain grab infinitely, your primary focus is to grab him. But unlike Mario, Luigi’s fireballs are as not as useful as Mario. However, overall he is a better character and can out prioritize you in the air, so outside of a quick bair you should try to keep the fight on the ground. Encourage this by using the Waddle Dee Toss (air) in addition to Jabs , jab cancels, and Dtilts to pressure a roll. You may see Luigi's Cyclone (sideB) as they attempt to get close, but your pokes can stop them, or you can just jump over it. Once Luigi’s knocked off the edge, punish his Green Missle with your bairs. Be on the look out for his Down Special from medium range. Dedede can full control over this matchup due to the free damage from grabs.
Peach: N/A
Bowser:
Bowser is powerful, but slow, and he lacks a projectile, meaning he has to come to you. Plus, he can be chain grabbed infinitely. Use your longer pokes and Waddle Dees to pester and outrange him, then look for the chain grab. Once he’s off the ledge, he can do nothing against your bairs to keep him off other than his Up B, which you can anticipate and punish. Most of the time, a bair will stop his air approaches, so use often. You should easily win this matchup as long as you don’t allow him to stay too close to you. He has good close range moves, a nice fair, and is fire is nice if used correctly on approach.
DK:
DK is a good character. He's powerful, his speed is good for a power character, and he has strong pokes and grabs. and he lacks a projectile, meaning he has to come to you. Plus, he can be chain grabbed infinitely. Use your longer pokes and Waddle Dees to pester and outrange him, then look for the chain grab. Once he’s off the ledge, he can do nothing against your bairs to keep him off other than his Up B. You should easily win this matchup as long as you don’t allow him to stay too close to you. Try not to get grabbed near the edges by DK; he has methods of getting quick gimps with his spikes and wall spikes.
DK can bair you off the edge, so look for those and his spikes during edgegaurd.
Diddy:
this is one of your harder matchups due to his insane agility, and his f’ing bananas. Focus primarily on jabs, jab cancels and bairs to defend against his speedy approach. Rolling should be held to a minimum, as all of his smashes are quick and can be used repeatedly to counter you on any mistake. If you leave him at long range for too long, then the bananas will be used. Do your best not to roll into them, and pick them up whenever you can. Know that you will see a rushing A attempt often, and that if connected will lead into an Aerial, tilt, and possibly into an Up Special, so learn to DI or use Dedede’s Nair to make it harder to follow up in the air. His Forward Special is hard to deal with as well. If you pester him with Waddle Dees and force him to come at you at your terms, you have a better chance to anticipate and counter his dodges, rolls, and his general movement strategies. Oh ya, and his UpB Spikes form below x_x
Pikachu:
the little guy is lightning quick, and can reach you quickly. Use the Waddle Dee throw only at long range, Pika can reach you any closer than that before you recover. If he knocks you in the air, he’s most likely going for Thunder, or his Uair. If you grab him, pressure him after the Down Throw with Ftilt/Waddle Dee throw (this goes for most characters who D3 can’t chain grab, mix with a random F Smash or Dash A) After a throw, tech chase him, and don’t allow him to reset the spacing. Fight him in the air with bairs, especially when he uses his UpB special. Don’t allow him to fight up close to you, if he does, use only your quickest moves with the intention of pushing him away.
Jigglypuff:
Use your Bairs, Ftilts, and Waddle Dee Toss to pester Jiggly’s air approach and counter its Wall of Pain. Try to kill him quickly, which is very possible due to his light weight. Waddle Dees negate its Rollout. You can also slow the game down and wait for Jigglypuff to come at you; you know its going to be in the air 95% of the time, and it’s WOP isn’t as good as it was in Melee, so a good turtling can really mess this character’s game plan up as well.
Pokemon Trainer:
First off: Charizard and Ivysaur can be chained. Yes. For Squirtle, he is the fastest but lightest, and his only projectle move only pushes you away doing no damage when fully charged. You may want to use your pokes and Waddles to force him to attack you recklessly, as you would fight Pikachu or other nimble characters. Your Ftilt messes with the other two’s ground game well, and forces them to either jump most likely. Your projectiles are also better overall then thiers. Once Ivysaur is off the ledge, get ready to grab the ledge in order to easily prevent the tether recovery technique. This also goes for other chracters, like Zero Suit Samus, and Olimar. Try not to get grabbed by Ivysaur, as it appears to combo from them well, and respect Charizard’s Fair. Charizards Rock Smash is very good, and you should see it often. Other than that, if you got more info, let me know.
Lucario: Even though Lucario can be chained, he can do a good job of preventing it with his tilts and his Aura Sphere. Stick to the basic strategy of WDT at long range and Ftitlt at med range since they both negate his projectile. Get him to roll for a chance to chainthrow, and avoid the air approach, in fact make this a ground battle as much as you can. Use bairs to be safe if you have no choice. If you can chain grab him off the stage, do it so that he is somewhat below the platform, with a dtilt, follow up ftilt and continue to pressure off stage to score a quick kill, because the longer he is alive the harder it is to kill him with his insane properties at higher percentages.
Sonic:
D3 has trouble against the faster characters, and Sonic is no acception. But Sonic’s lack of priority and kiliing moves , give him a serious disadvantage if he gets caught. Therefore, a good Sonic will do lots of movement to prevent you from locking down on him, using his speed and unpredictablity to make up for his low priority. His Dash A is a problem at first, but he can be grabbed out of most of his spin moves. Just be on the look out for Sonic’s Trinity moves (Bair Fair, Uair) Once off the ledge, Sonic has great recovery. Bairs can handle most of the problem due to his lack of Priority, and pay close attention to what Sonic does after his Spring Jump special. Try to wait for Sonic to close first, Waddle Dee throws are to be kept to a minimum unless he is at long range, due to his super speed. Sonic can be chaingrabbed, but usually the Sonic player will use the Spring Jump, with its starting invincibility, to escape it. Be on the look out for his Fair, because of its quick startup, he may try to use it to beat your aerials. If you get knocked off the edge, look out for the Homing Attack, Bair, fair, and Nair as his edgegaurd, but you can deal with them. Just know that he the most dangerous off stage, and can pummel you with gimp attempts quickly.
More Info: I didn't think I said this clearly enough, but Sonic's combo ability is near the top of the cast, so look for and get used to his spin dash cancels, and is Aerial Spin Charge (Down B in the air) as the combined damage from connecting a string of these into an fair or a nair breaches 40%-45% as a COMBO. and that is an estimate. Combined with DDD's large size, a sonic has a chance to stop you if he uses his spins and speed correctly, so don't over rely on projectile spamming. if you dont beleive the evilness of Sonics combos or how nasty he could be, go here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170844
Marth:
Sigh. This dude is better than you in the air. Stop. What are you doing, don’t even think of trying to fight him in the air, you will lose badly and due to your large size get combed. Your bairs are still very good in this match and should be used to counter the air game of marth. Instead, use the Waddle Dee Throw from long range when possible, but Marth being adept at the close ranged game, you may not be able to too often; use it too much and he'll be on you during the lag. Be on the lookout for his grabs as they are used often, and his SideB is good at disrupting your close range game. Also note that he too can be chain grabbed. Stick to Jabs, and Jab cancels to set up throws, and try to land those often. It’ll be hard, but don’t let Marth get close at will at all costs. Keep the game on the ground as much as you can. Lastly learn the reach of his F Smash and use that as a measuring stick to determine how safe certain move are.
Ike:
You can get away with the keep way game if you watch out for Quick Draw, his sideB special. It can catch you of guard if you’re not ready, and it can be hard to edgegaurd him sometimes. Also, if you see it coming, using Swallow will cause Ike to fly past you when he activates Quick Draw, and if you are near the edge, he will fly off and die. If you focus on that, you can negate the majority of Ike’s game, and he must resort to Quick Draw and risky tactics to get close. His best moves have enough lag to punish him if he misses. Continue to chaingrab him and edgegaurd to make it hard on him. Ike’s Fair will give you the most issues on his approach, but if you avoid that consistently you can make it hard for him to succeed. Like Marth, keep the majority of the match on the ground, and DI to prevent Ike’s fair and other follow ups. Once last thing is that his Jabs are good as are the attacks afterward (although you can grab in between the second and third hits), and along with Snake’s standard combo can knock you back well even at low percentages. to make it worse they both can cancel the jabs and throw you.
Link :
He can Projectile Spam better than you, and you will most likely be forced to chase him,. You need to get close in order to prevent his projectile spam, but do not roll in order to do so from medium range. Use your jumps, mainly with the bair, and the occasional Waddle Dee throw to get close. Once you do, Use you pokes and aim to grab him quickly. Be aggressive with this matchup, and bair Link in the air when ever you can. You should be able to gimp his recovery easily too. Getting close to Link is the hardest part, but when you do it gets much simpler.
Toon Link:
In the air, look out for his Bair, its one of the best in the game, and its speed lets him do it multiple times. You need to get close to limit his options with his projectiles, but you have to tech chase more unless you have mastered the Shield Dash Grab. Down Throw, Ftilt, then Waddle Dee throw is a basic set up. Mix it up to keep him guessing, and punish his missed Smash Attacks. This is one of his hardest matchups due to his versatility, range, and mobility. You have to get close, but he can move better than you. Leave him at long range, and he can rain projectiiles on you better than you. The air isn't safe either due to the bair. Be very defensive and Safe and you can win this hard matchup.
Note: It also appears the TL's like the D-Air alot. This is because if you get hit, it pops you in the air enough for a combo and there is a small shockwave that pushes you back if you planned on moving to the side and grabbing him. just to let you know.
(will work on these asap, but please feel free to comment)
Zelda: Close to medium range to negate the spamming of Din's Fire (side B special) From there, look for her Forward Smash and use tilts to play outside of its range. If you pressure in this way, Zelda will have to either move away and try to reset the spacing for Din's Fire, or use throws for the same reason, if you keep at medium range for most of the match, you have a good shot of winning. Zelda's Teleport will also be used to reset spacing, but if you stay nearby, even trying this will be risky. If you get her off the edge, watch for the Lightning Kick (determine how well you opponent is at sweetspotting it.). Try using Uptilts at close range to clash and hopefuly score a vertical kill easier than it would be otherwise. In fact, I'd say that you should try to get this move off it the opponent has crazy horizontal recovery, like Metaknight, R.O.B, and the like.
Ganondorf: Due to Gannon's slow speed, he needs to rely on his Jab, Forward B, the "Sparta Kick" (forward tilt) and his quick aerials and the random Wizard's Foot offensively. you have better pokes, a projectile, and can easily chaingrab him off the edge to bair him with no real issue. If you have trouble getting the throw off, just stick to quick pokes and Waddle Dees (WDT from now on). If he is good at getting off his forward B move on you, that plus your huge size can get you killed, but seriously ,you own his life.
Kirby: Kirby can grab you, forward throw, uptilt as he falls, grab you again, then use a variety of finishers to put you at high percentage from 0%. The main issue is that Kirby has little range compared to you, and has to guess how you will move and use multiple Bairs in most other situations. Not only can you do the same, but you also have a projectile. Do not get tircked into Kirby's Wall of Pain strategy, and use your pokes to make it even harder to get close. If kirby gets you off the edge, he can keep you off with bairs, but you can do the same to him too.
Metaknight: This is a very hard matchup because of the ease that MK can punish you and edgegaurd you. Rolling towards him is forbidden, as his Down Smash can get you at any time. Your goal is to keep him at Forward tilts range and look for a roll or jump. If you anticipate those, quickly respond with a tilt or bair or throw to push him back. Practice tech chasing to make the most out of your close encounters. If he does get close retreat to reset the spacing. It is best to keep the fight on the floor, but if you do get in the air, either for your bair, or him sending you there, do your best to anticipate his Shuttle Loop to prevent an easy kill for MK. Look for a throw attempt after his ftilt and his Dtilt, and be ready for Mach Tornado because as far I know, it can easily get into you out side of a D Smash or uptilt.
This was found in Mew2King's Thread and it was very informative.
Dedede: This obviously will be a matchup of who has the mot skill. You should know what to expect from a D3 player: lots of tilts from medium range, Jab cancels and chaingrabs at close range, and WDT from a distance. In a dito match, a good rule is to pay close attention to your opponents tendancies. Try to approach from the air, as the WDT aren't as realiable, and use bairs to reach safely, be careful not to land directly inside of his grab range, as he can chain grab you. Try to work with Waddle Doo when you can to disrupt your opponent, and push him towards the edge. standard edgegaurding tactics apply, but use in anticipation of bairs from your opponenas well.
Lucas: As with both Lucus and ness, you cannot chain grab them normally (you have to shield dash grab them), and you only want to get in a projectile war from a distance, where PK fire cannot reach. use FTilts to beat PK fire at medium range and pressure Lucus. the moves to look for are thh FSmash and the UpSmash, as well as the Bair and Fair for his edgegaurd and his approach. Try to keep him at medium range to make his projectiles not as safe, and use the down throw with the intention of tech chasing him. use bairs for teh edgegaurd in anticipation of lucus' better air attacks. You may have to resort to tech chasing more than bairs to killing him. If he does get close, back off or use a random Uptilt. Lastly, Be careful about Lucus or ness abosrboing a Bolt of Lighting from Waddle Doo; They may be vulnerable during this time, but the potential damage recovered can turn the match around. if you are close by, they won't risk it.
Ness: You can play against Ness basically the same as Lucus, because overall , Ness isn't as good. your bair can either tie or beat his bair, and is faster. Space yourself so that your bair doesn't land you right next to them, they will throw (they have good throws). You should get used to to and look for Ness to unleash a barrage of fairs during most aerial encounters, so space accordingly. I don't see any reason other than skill that would cause a DDD to lose to a Ness. Don't let him Psi Magnet your Waddle Doos unless you want him to have an advantage.
Snake: you want to play him agressively to limit his explosives and thier setups. Your goal is to chaingrab, but if you miss, his standard and tilts are very good and will knock you back far. Pay attention for his dashing A, and prepare to counter attack his smashes. his horizontal recovery is crazy; i'd suggest a vertical kill with Uptilt or Uair primarily. Space your bairs properly. In the air you have the advantage if you are smart. if he apporaches from the air, simply wait for the dude to fall and chaingrab. If you knock him off the stage, then do so with the intention of forcing his Cypher to activate from under that stage's edge, cause if you grab him as he is coming from under that stage, he loses cypher and won't get it back. I dont do anything after the grab, I let him go to ensure he gets no chance. for this reason Most Snakes will not do this, but it is still good to know. it's easier to edge gaurd this way too.
Ice Climbers: Your goal is to prevent getting grabbed at all costs, thier chaingrab is nasty, and can kill you easily. If you keep them at mid range for most of the match, you can make it harder to grab you and limit thier B special. Look for rolls and anticipate attempts to get past your tilts for the chain grab, then punish. they may also Shield cancel their dash to get close safely for a grab, so look for that as well. Be smart in the air and pay attention to thier Nairs and bairs. Also note that thier Up B move is a tether recovery, and can be gimped as such. Its also hard to grab them because the second IC will get a free hit on you. Do your best as you punish them to separate them and hopefully kill Nana, and stick to your quick moves for most of this long match.
Yoshi
R.O.B.: Get into mid range to discorage Robo Beam (B) and use your long pokes to get to him safely. Pay attention to how he moves, as his Dsmsh is annoying to deal with (look for many attempts to land these on the ground). He has good aereals as well, but if you time it well, you can get to him anyway. Chaingrab, and use the uptilt when he rolls to clash or beat his Dsmash or grab attempts to score a vertical kill, as it is much more difficult to kill him from the sides out side of a Fsmash. Use Waddle Dee throw often, but keep in mind that he has good projectiles as well.
Pit: Close as soon as you can to prevent Arrow Spamming. Pit’s is great at long range, so your goal is to get close and chain grab him. Once of the edge, you can bair him, but his recovery is very good. Keep at it with bairs until you can hit him out of the Wings of Icarus (UpB) since after that he‘s done. You may want to resort to the uptit at close range to pop him in the air and try to get a vertical kill. At close range, expect Angel Ring, Ftilt, Fsmash, and Down Smash in an attempt to push you away. If he grabs you, try to disrupt his follow ups with a well timed dodge and DI. Up air and Down air are viable in this match up if you can keep him either below or under you, despite his aerials.
Mr. Game and Watch: GW's Aerials are very good and stay out longer, so a ground game should be used primarily with ftilt and Jab Cancels. his Roll is slow, so he's more likely to constantly jump at you with Fairs, and bairs. Also, his tilts and Jabs are quick and pick at your shield. Space yourself and brush up on your tech chase game. Attacking GW from below is not a good idea; his dair will probably beat it, and his Uair can keep you afloat for awhile and leave you vulnerable. If you get knocked off, get ready for Gw to come after you, use fairs, WDT, or Swallow to make him pay for it, and make him second guess. Use the bairs to edgegaurd him but his recovery is very good, so Utilt may kill him faster. Also...
Lastly, his Dthrow is evil, don't get caught by it often.
Fox: His speed is an issue, but if you are patient, you can win this matchup. Fox will try to either be very aggro and try to out poke you, or try to punish you quickly on any laggy moves. Therefore, use you pokes heavily, trying to force Fox towards the edge. Outside of a Side B special, ( which can be punished too) You should be able to gimp him, and the other Space animals easily. If he does get close, he is going to go for a grab, so look for that, and punish with an uptilt or a grab of your own.
Falco: One of the Kings hardest matchups are all three of the Space Animals, but Falco is by far the hardest of the three. His projectiles are the most hassle of the three, and he is the only one of the three that can chain grab you back.Waddles can interrupt the lasers a bit. Look for attempts to get close and counter with quick moves to score a knockdown, or bairs. Then be aggressive so that he cannot reset spacing to his advantage.
Wolf: Be focused on baiting his FSmash and look out for his Down Smash. The fact that you will see these moves almost the whole match will be annoying, but,you can chain grab and gimp him, so it's fair game. jump over his lasers, and look for a quick responce for Wolf to catch you with his F Smash. Play him at medium range, use chain grabbing and tech chasing to rack the most of your damage. If he tries to roll towards you, Uptilt to beat out his super quick DSmash. All the space animals can be gimped out of thier UpB's so you may see more Phantasms for recovery (Side B). Anticipate this and Punish. You want to be aggro to discourage the lasers, but be patient with the apporaoch.
Samus: Note: Samus can be Infinited. Learn it and instill the fear of the close encounter. Nowadays the Brawl version of samus will at advanced levels use lots of the air grabs. due to its stun it can be used to hold you at bay, combined with missles, and her sex kick. (n-air). You know that her recovery is still good, so a good understanding of your air game is needed, as the majority of this battle will be played out in the air. Look for Dashing A, and as always look for the projectiles. Waddles can eat these, in fact one waddle can eat a fully charged Shot no problem, and the missiles too. your ftilt can block missiles and smaller charge shots too. So, once the projectile game is negated, you should have an easier time as Samus may feel pressured to bring the battle at a closer range.
Zero Suit Samus: A difficult matchup that requires more defense than offense usually. First off, the match starts, and you have to deal with the peices of armor she throws at you. Then she out manuvers you, has longer grab range, and beats your ftilit with her side B. your size makes it easy to combo once she gets a hold of you too. you can't chain grab her either. You should be able to deal with the first part, since, you can use them too, and you can ftilt the thrown pieces. after they are gone, your next goal is to get around that side B, not an easy thing to do if the player knows how good it is.
play defensively, baiting her to come to you, and if you can get her to come from the air that's you best chance due to your Uair, bair, and Uptilt. you want her above you, not below you. pester her with Waddles from outside her Side B range, but be on the look out for a Dash A real soon after that. I'd want her to be within my ftilt range and not get pushed outside of it. Her grab range is crazy, so use you judgement regarding how often she likes to use it. Waddles are a bit more important in this matchup, imo so be around one when you can.
Wario: Watch out for his high priority air approach, and don't fall for them, simply jump back and use your longer range arials to counter. I don't really see much of an issue as long as you play smart and keep him at mid range until you want to chain grab him. watch for the bike and keep air approaches to a minimum, he'll just block and throw. the bike is not an issue when you get used to it, it's best for recovery anyways, and then its a bit annoying. for me, if you negate the air game and control spacing, it becomes an easier match up. Also note that he gets a fully charged fart every 2 minutes. As for a viable finisher:
Thanks in advance for reading this thread, and helping out in the making of it. I will update as much as I can in order to finish this quickly, aside for mistakes and other updates.
This thread will be used to discuss the various strategies and tips that gives Dedede players more of an understanding on how play offensively and defensively against the rest of the cast. Most importantly, it will attempt to give out pointers against the characters that Dedede has an disadvantage against (in any form) and will discuss what to look for and how to respond accordingly. Please feel free to add more info and opinion so we can have an in-depth view of these matchups.
I realize there are other guides to all of his moves, complete with frames, attack power, and whatnot, so I won’t go into much detail about those. If you want to learn more about that, you should go to their threads first, then come here once you’re comfortable with the King or having matchup issues. Some of this may sound obvious to some of you guys, but I need to say it anyway in order to be complete and eliminate confusion. If you still see any error, please feel free to comment in a polite fashion. Some characters will be updated, edited and completed as this thread goes on; it is only using about a month of so worth of Brawl playing as reference (heavy Brawl playing, but still…) The information presented here now is based from what I've seen, read, and gotten advice from other good Smashers from The Art Institute of Washington, and against playing against those like CDOT, Lobos, and "Mario Guy" (forgot his tag, forgive me man, it was ZM something...)
Please compliment this guide with The Royal Guide/Faq of King Dedede by CO18. It contains important ifo regaurding the entire moveset, the numbers, and also includes addtional matchup information. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142229 Also the King DeDeDe Matchup Discussion by brawlerbrad91
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182310
General tips:
Generally, Dedede has a big advantage against people with no projectile, and most importantly, those he can chain grab, which gives him an easy building block to controlling the match. Conversely, those he cannot chain grab, and those who can spam projectiles better than he can give him the most problems. Faster characters can give him a harder time too if the opponent is focused on quick moves, throws, and turtling tactics, although the King can turtle too. He has to work harder to maintain proper spacing though.b Also, seeing as Ftilt is an important spacing tool, the easier you can do this, the easier the matchup tends to be, as it creates opportunities for chaingrabing, and his slower moves.
Pokes:
Use your Ftilt, Dtilt, Jabs, Jab Cancels, and Bairs as they are your best pokes, and can open up your grab game up close. In most cases, a single grab is all that is needed.
Other defenses:
At long range, Waddle Dees can negate most projectiles as long as they are in the path, and serve as a decent distraction, especially when Waddle Doo or Gordo are out. If your opponent like to roll a lot, use your up tilt over the Down Smash as the up tilt will usually clash with or usually beat your opponent’s counterattack on either side of you with its speed and priority, especially if you stick with quick attacks at that range. A quick Dair will catch them on either side and can eat their shield up, and with anticipation, a Bair will do nicely and is safe.
Throws against those that can’t be chain grabbed:
Your best option at most percentages is either the up throw or the down throw. Even though you can’t chain grab them with the Dthrow, it allows you to tech chase, and follow up with the Ftilt to Waddle Dee Throw to catch them as they roll. If you are clever enough you can rush with either a running grab if they stand up blocking or roll, Dash A if they love to sidestep, or even a random Jet Hammer to name a few options. Follow up the Up throw with a quick Uair to rack up damage and send them upwards, allowing the potential for a Bair or another Uair as they fall down. Use the Back and Forward Throw when at high percents to start edgegaurding.
Using FSmash: if you have any input plz post, but for me, the best times to use it, are:
1. as they approach the ledge from getting knocked off or as they gut up from the ledge
2. After a Dthrow
3. After a series of quick Jabs and tilts
4. After a Waddle Dee toss
even so i do it randomly to keep it from being punished too much, and sometimes I'll do it to let them know that i will, possible opening up other moves.
Using Waddle Doo: when a Waddle Doo hits tht field, they tend to stay for a while, and thier electric ability can give you an oppening for a powerful blow. When one comes out, try to stay with it and manuver around it in anticipation of this attack. Normally the opponent will either try to kill it. in this case, it serves more as a distraction that will help you get closer an possibly score some free hits. as a term, I call it "Waddle Assist" but whatever is fine i guess.
"Waddle Recovery" (haven't heard a name for it) : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164497 There is a thread here that describes a really good way to recover while attacking to make edgegaurdign against you harder. take a look. I wouldn't put it here because the guide isn't about this but agaisnt certain characters, this may help you a lot, and it's not hard to do.
With that out of the way, let's focus on individual matchups
Mario:
As one of the characters that King Dedede can chain grab infinitely, your primary focus is to grab him. But at the same time, Mario can, and probably will, abuse his fireballs and his quicker jabs to prevent this. The Waddle Dees can eat some of the fireballs, but you cannot throw them out like he can use his. Use your Waddle Dees at long range to at least have some on the field. When Mario approcahes with the fireballs, resist the temptation to roll towards him. Either throw Waddles Dees in the air, or use the bair to counter his air approach. Throw Jabs , jab cancels, and Dtilts to pressure a roll. At this point all Mario can do is try to guess what you’ll do and hope to dodge right. Most likely counterattacks to expect from a Mario involve the Down Smash, Up tilt, Jab into throw, and the sex kick, but you Bair is better. Once off the edge, Watch for the Super Jump Punch (Up Special). Dedede can have full control over this matchup due to the free damage from grabs.
Luigi:
As one of the characters that King Dedede can chain grab infinitely, your primary focus is to grab him. But unlike Mario, Luigi’s fireballs are as not as useful as Mario. However, overall he is a better character and can out prioritize you in the air, so outside of a quick bair you should try to keep the fight on the ground. Encourage this by using the Waddle Dee Toss (air) in addition to Jabs , jab cancels, and Dtilts to pressure a roll. You may see Luigi's Cyclone (sideB) as they attempt to get close, but your pokes can stop them, or you can just jump over it. Once Luigi’s knocked off the edge, punish his Green Missle with your bairs. Be on the look out for his Down Special from medium range. Dedede can full control over this matchup due to the free damage from grabs.
Peach: N/A
Bowser:
Bowser is powerful, but slow, and he lacks a projectile, meaning he has to come to you. Plus, he can be chain grabbed infinitely. Use your longer pokes and Waddle Dees to pester and outrange him, then look for the chain grab. Once he’s off the ledge, he can do nothing against your bairs to keep him off other than his Up B, which you can anticipate and punish. Most of the time, a bair will stop his air approaches, so use often. You should easily win this matchup as long as you don’t allow him to stay too close to you. He has good close range moves, a nice fair, and is fire is nice if used correctly on approach.
DK:
DK is a good character. He's powerful, his speed is good for a power character, and he has strong pokes and grabs. and he lacks a projectile, meaning he has to come to you. Plus, he can be chain grabbed infinitely. Use your longer pokes and Waddle Dees to pester and outrange him, then look for the chain grab. Once he’s off the ledge, he can do nothing against your bairs to keep him off other than his Up B. You should easily win this matchup as long as you don’t allow him to stay too close to you. Try not to get grabbed near the edges by DK; he has methods of getting quick gimps with his spikes and wall spikes.
DK can bair you off the edge, so look for those and his spikes during edgegaurd.
Diddy:
this is one of your harder matchups due to his insane agility, and his f’ing bananas. Focus primarily on jabs, jab cancels and bairs to defend against his speedy approach. Rolling should be held to a minimum, as all of his smashes are quick and can be used repeatedly to counter you on any mistake. If you leave him at long range for too long, then the bananas will be used. Do your best not to roll into them, and pick them up whenever you can. Know that you will see a rushing A attempt often, and that if connected will lead into an Aerial, tilt, and possibly into an Up Special, so learn to DI or use Dedede’s Nair to make it harder to follow up in the air. His Forward Special is hard to deal with as well. If you pester him with Waddle Dees and force him to come at you at your terms, you have a better chance to anticipate and counter his dodges, rolls, and his general movement strategies. Oh ya, and his UpB Spikes form below x_x
Pikachu:
the little guy is lightning quick, and can reach you quickly. Use the Waddle Dee throw only at long range, Pika can reach you any closer than that before you recover. If he knocks you in the air, he’s most likely going for Thunder, or his Uair. If you grab him, pressure him after the Down Throw with Ftilt/Waddle Dee throw (this goes for most characters who D3 can’t chain grab, mix with a random F Smash or Dash A) After a throw, tech chase him, and don’t allow him to reset the spacing. Fight him in the air with bairs, especially when he uses his UpB special. Don’t allow him to fight up close to you, if he does, use only your quickest moves with the intention of pushing him away.
Jigglypuff:
Use your Bairs, Ftilts, and Waddle Dee Toss to pester Jiggly’s air approach and counter its Wall of Pain. Try to kill him quickly, which is very possible due to his light weight. Waddle Dees negate its Rollout. You can also slow the game down and wait for Jigglypuff to come at you; you know its going to be in the air 95% of the time, and it’s WOP isn’t as good as it was in Melee, so a good turtling can really mess this character’s game plan up as well.
Pokemon Trainer:
First off: Charizard and Ivysaur can be chained. Yes. For Squirtle, he is the fastest but lightest, and his only projectle move only pushes you away doing no damage when fully charged. You may want to use your pokes and Waddles to force him to attack you recklessly, as you would fight Pikachu or other nimble characters. Your Ftilt messes with the other two’s ground game well, and forces them to either jump most likely. Your projectiles are also better overall then thiers. Once Ivysaur is off the ledge, get ready to grab the ledge in order to easily prevent the tether recovery technique. This also goes for other chracters, like Zero Suit Samus, and Olimar. Try not to get grabbed by Ivysaur, as it appears to combo from them well, and respect Charizard’s Fair. Charizards Rock Smash is very good, and you should see it often. Other than that, if you got more info, let me know.
Lucario: Even though Lucario can be chained, he can do a good job of preventing it with his tilts and his Aura Sphere. Stick to the basic strategy of WDT at long range and Ftitlt at med range since they both negate his projectile. Get him to roll for a chance to chainthrow, and avoid the air approach, in fact make this a ground battle as much as you can. Use bairs to be safe if you have no choice. If you can chain grab him off the stage, do it so that he is somewhat below the platform, with a dtilt, follow up ftilt and continue to pressure off stage to score a quick kill, because the longer he is alive the harder it is to kill him with his insane properties at higher percentages.
Sonic:
D3 has trouble against the faster characters, and Sonic is no acception. But Sonic’s lack of priority and kiliing moves , give him a serious disadvantage if he gets caught. Therefore, a good Sonic will do lots of movement to prevent you from locking down on him, using his speed and unpredictablity to make up for his low priority. His Dash A is a problem at first, but he can be grabbed out of most of his spin moves. Just be on the look out for Sonic’s Trinity moves (Bair Fair, Uair) Once off the ledge, Sonic has great recovery. Bairs can handle most of the problem due to his lack of Priority, and pay close attention to what Sonic does after his Spring Jump special. Try to wait for Sonic to close first, Waddle Dee throws are to be kept to a minimum unless he is at long range, due to his super speed. Sonic can be chaingrabbed, but usually the Sonic player will use the Spring Jump, with its starting invincibility, to escape it. Be on the look out for his Fair, because of its quick startup, he may try to use it to beat your aerials. If you get knocked off the edge, look out for the Homing Attack, Bair, fair, and Nair as his edgegaurd, but you can deal with them. Just know that he the most dangerous off stage, and can pummel you with gimp attempts quickly.
More Info: I didn't think I said this clearly enough, but Sonic's combo ability is near the top of the cast, so look for and get used to his spin dash cancels, and is Aerial Spin Charge (Down B in the air) as the combined damage from connecting a string of these into an fair or a nair breaches 40%-45% as a COMBO. and that is an estimate. Combined with DDD's large size, a sonic has a chance to stop you if he uses his spins and speed correctly, so don't over rely on projectile spamming. if you dont beleive the evilness of Sonics combos or how nasty he could be, go here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170844
Marth:
Sigh. This dude is better than you in the air. Stop. What are you doing, don’t even think of trying to fight him in the air, you will lose badly and due to your large size get combed. Your bairs are still very good in this match and should be used to counter the air game of marth. Instead, use the Waddle Dee Throw from long range when possible, but Marth being adept at the close ranged game, you may not be able to too often; use it too much and he'll be on you during the lag. Be on the lookout for his grabs as they are used often, and his SideB is good at disrupting your close range game. Also note that he too can be chain grabbed. Stick to Jabs, and Jab cancels to set up throws, and try to land those often. It’ll be hard, but don’t let Marth get close at will at all costs. Keep the game on the ground as much as you can. Lastly learn the reach of his F Smash and use that as a measuring stick to determine how safe certain move are.
Ike:
You can get away with the keep way game if you watch out for Quick Draw, his sideB special. It can catch you of guard if you’re not ready, and it can be hard to edgegaurd him sometimes. Also, if you see it coming, using Swallow will cause Ike to fly past you when he activates Quick Draw, and if you are near the edge, he will fly off and die. If you focus on that, you can negate the majority of Ike’s game, and he must resort to Quick Draw and risky tactics to get close. His best moves have enough lag to punish him if he misses. Continue to chaingrab him and edgegaurd to make it hard on him. Ike’s Fair will give you the most issues on his approach, but if you avoid that consistently you can make it hard for him to succeed. Like Marth, keep the majority of the match on the ground, and DI to prevent Ike’s fair and other follow ups. Once last thing is that his Jabs are good as are the attacks afterward (although you can grab in between the second and third hits), and along with Snake’s standard combo can knock you back well even at low percentages. to make it worse they both can cancel the jabs and throw you.
Link :
He can Projectile Spam better than you, and you will most likely be forced to chase him,. You need to get close in order to prevent his projectile spam, but do not roll in order to do so from medium range. Use your jumps, mainly with the bair, and the occasional Waddle Dee throw to get close. Once you do, Use you pokes and aim to grab him quickly. Be aggressive with this matchup, and bair Link in the air when ever you can. You should be able to gimp his recovery easily too. Getting close to Link is the hardest part, but when you do it gets much simpler.
Toon Link:
In the air, look out for his Bair, its one of the best in the game, and its speed lets him do it multiple times. You need to get close to limit his options with his projectiles, but you have to tech chase more unless you have mastered the Shield Dash Grab. Down Throw, Ftilt, then Waddle Dee throw is a basic set up. Mix it up to keep him guessing, and punish his missed Smash Attacks. This is one of his hardest matchups due to his versatility, range, and mobility. You have to get close, but he can move better than you. Leave him at long range, and he can rain projectiiles on you better than you. The air isn't safe either due to the bair. Be very defensive and Safe and you can win this hard matchup.
Note: It also appears the TL's like the D-Air alot. This is because if you get hit, it pops you in the air enough for a combo and there is a small shockwave that pushes you back if you planned on moving to the side and grabbing him. just to let you know.
(will work on these asap, but please feel free to comment)
Zelda: Close to medium range to negate the spamming of Din's Fire (side B special) From there, look for her Forward Smash and use tilts to play outside of its range. If you pressure in this way, Zelda will have to either move away and try to reset the spacing for Din's Fire, or use throws for the same reason, if you keep at medium range for most of the match, you have a good shot of winning. Zelda's Teleport will also be used to reset spacing, but if you stay nearby, even trying this will be risky. If you get her off the edge, watch for the Lightning Kick (determine how well you opponent is at sweetspotting it.). Try using Uptilts at close range to clash and hopefuly score a vertical kill easier than it would be otherwise. In fact, I'd say that you should try to get this move off it the opponent has crazy horizontal recovery, like Metaknight, R.O.B, and the like.
Ganondorf: Due to Gannon's slow speed, he needs to rely on his Jab, Forward B, the "Sparta Kick" (forward tilt) and his quick aerials and the random Wizard's Foot offensively. you have better pokes, a projectile, and can easily chaingrab him off the edge to bair him with no real issue. If you have trouble getting the throw off, just stick to quick pokes and Waddle Dees (WDT from now on). If he is good at getting off his forward B move on you, that plus your huge size can get you killed, but seriously ,you own his life.
Kirby: Kirby can grab you, forward throw, uptilt as he falls, grab you again, then use a variety of finishers to put you at high percentage from 0%. The main issue is that Kirby has little range compared to you, and has to guess how you will move and use multiple Bairs in most other situations. Not only can you do the same, but you also have a projectile. Do not get tircked into Kirby's Wall of Pain strategy, and use your pokes to make it even harder to get close. If kirby gets you off the edge, he can keep you off with bairs, but you can do the same to him too.
Metaknight: This is a very hard matchup because of the ease that MK can punish you and edgegaurd you. Rolling towards him is forbidden, as his Down Smash can get you at any time. Your goal is to keep him at Forward tilts range and look for a roll or jump. If you anticipate those, quickly respond with a tilt or bair or throw to push him back. Practice tech chasing to make the most out of your close encounters. If he does get close retreat to reset the spacing. It is best to keep the fight on the floor, but if you do get in the air, either for your bair, or him sending you there, do your best to anticipate his Shuttle Loop to prevent an easy kill for MK. Look for a throw attempt after his ftilt and his Dtilt, and be ready for Mach Tornado because as far I know, it can easily get into you out side of a D Smash or uptilt.
This was found in Mew2King's Thread and it was very informative.
Dedede: This obviously will be a matchup of who has the mot skill. You should know what to expect from a D3 player: lots of tilts from medium range, Jab cancels and chaingrabs at close range, and WDT from a distance. In a dito match, a good rule is to pay close attention to your opponents tendancies. Try to approach from the air, as the WDT aren't as realiable, and use bairs to reach safely, be careful not to land directly inside of his grab range, as he can chain grab you. Try to work with Waddle Doo when you can to disrupt your opponent, and push him towards the edge. standard edgegaurding tactics apply, but use in anticipation of bairs from your opponenas well.
Lucas: As with both Lucus and ness, you cannot chain grab them normally (you have to shield dash grab them), and you only want to get in a projectile war from a distance, where PK fire cannot reach. use FTilts to beat PK fire at medium range and pressure Lucus. the moves to look for are thh FSmash and the UpSmash, as well as the Bair and Fair for his edgegaurd and his approach. Try to keep him at medium range to make his projectiles not as safe, and use the down throw with the intention of tech chasing him. use bairs for teh edgegaurd in anticipation of lucus' better air attacks. You may have to resort to tech chasing more than bairs to killing him. If he does get close, back off or use a random Uptilt. Lastly, Be careful about Lucus or ness abosrboing a Bolt of Lighting from Waddle Doo; They may be vulnerable during this time, but the potential damage recovered can turn the match around. if you are close by, they won't risk it.
Ness: You can play against Ness basically the same as Lucus, because overall , Ness isn't as good. your bair can either tie or beat his bair, and is faster. Space yourself so that your bair doesn't land you right next to them, they will throw (they have good throws). You should get used to to and look for Ness to unleash a barrage of fairs during most aerial encounters, so space accordingly. I don't see any reason other than skill that would cause a DDD to lose to a Ness. Don't let him Psi Magnet your Waddle Doos unless you want him to have an advantage.
Snake: you want to play him agressively to limit his explosives and thier setups. Your goal is to chaingrab, but if you miss, his standard and tilts are very good and will knock you back far. Pay attention for his dashing A, and prepare to counter attack his smashes. his horizontal recovery is crazy; i'd suggest a vertical kill with Uptilt or Uair primarily. Space your bairs properly. In the air you have the advantage if you are smart. if he apporaches from the air, simply wait for the dude to fall and chaingrab. If you knock him off the stage, then do so with the intention of forcing his Cypher to activate from under that stage's edge, cause if you grab him as he is coming from under that stage, he loses cypher and won't get it back. I dont do anything after the grab, I let him go to ensure he gets no chance. for this reason Most Snakes will not do this, but it is still good to know. it's easier to edge gaurd this way too.
Ice Climbers: Your goal is to prevent getting grabbed at all costs, thier chaingrab is nasty, and can kill you easily. If you keep them at mid range for most of the match, you can make it harder to grab you and limit thier B special. Look for rolls and anticipate attempts to get past your tilts for the chain grab, then punish. they may also Shield cancel their dash to get close safely for a grab, so look for that as well. Be smart in the air and pay attention to thier Nairs and bairs. Also note that thier Up B move is a tether recovery, and can be gimped as such. Its also hard to grab them because the second IC will get a free hit on you. Do your best as you punish them to separate them and hopefully kill Nana, and stick to your quick moves for most of this long match.
Yoshi
R.O.B.: Get into mid range to discorage Robo Beam (B) and use your long pokes to get to him safely. Pay attention to how he moves, as his Dsmsh is annoying to deal with (look for many attempts to land these on the ground). He has good aereals as well, but if you time it well, you can get to him anyway. Chaingrab, and use the uptilt when he rolls to clash or beat his Dsmash or grab attempts to score a vertical kill, as it is much more difficult to kill him from the sides out side of a Fsmash. Use Waddle Dee throw often, but keep in mind that he has good projectiles as well.
Pit: Close as soon as you can to prevent Arrow Spamming. Pit’s is great at long range, so your goal is to get close and chain grab him. Once of the edge, you can bair him, but his recovery is very good. Keep at it with bairs until you can hit him out of the Wings of Icarus (UpB) since after that he‘s done. You may want to resort to the uptit at close range to pop him in the air and try to get a vertical kill. At close range, expect Angel Ring, Ftilt, Fsmash, and Down Smash in an attempt to push you away. If he grabs you, try to disrupt his follow ups with a well timed dodge and DI. Up air and Down air are viable in this match up if you can keep him either below or under you, despite his aerials.
Mr. Game and Watch: GW's Aerials are very good and stay out longer, so a ground game should be used primarily with ftilt and Jab Cancels. his Roll is slow, so he's more likely to constantly jump at you with Fairs, and bairs. Also, his tilts and Jabs are quick and pick at your shield. Space yourself and brush up on your tech chase game. Attacking GW from below is not a good idea; his dair will probably beat it, and his Uair can keep you afloat for awhile and leave you vulnerable. If you get knocked off, get ready for Gw to come after you, use fairs, WDT, or Swallow to make him pay for it, and make him second guess. Use the bairs to edgegaurd him but his recovery is very good, so Utilt may kill him faster. Also...
Incorperate Smash DI for Metaknights Mach Tornado, and other multi-hit moves.
Lastly, his Dthrow is evil, don't get caught by it often.
Fox: His speed is an issue, but if you are patient, you can win this matchup. Fox will try to either be very aggro and try to out poke you, or try to punish you quickly on any laggy moves. Therefore, use you pokes heavily, trying to force Fox towards the edge. Outside of a Side B special, ( which can be punished too) You should be able to gimp him, and the other Space animals easily. If he does get close, he is going to go for a grab, so look for that, and punish with an uptilt or a grab of your own.
Falco: One of the Kings hardest matchups are all three of the Space Animals, but Falco is by far the hardest of the three. His projectiles are the most hassle of the three, and he is the only one of the three that can chain grab you back.Waddles can interrupt the lasers a bit. Look for attempts to get close and counter with quick moves to score a knockdown, or bairs. Then be aggressive so that he cannot reset spacing to his advantage.
Wolf: Be focused on baiting his FSmash and look out for his Down Smash. The fact that you will see these moves almost the whole match will be annoying, but,you can chain grab and gimp him, so it's fair game. jump over his lasers, and look for a quick responce for Wolf to catch you with his F Smash. Play him at medium range, use chain grabbing and tech chasing to rack the most of your damage. If he tries to roll towards you, Uptilt to beat out his super quick DSmash. All the space animals can be gimped out of thier UpB's so you may see more Phantasms for recovery (Side B). Anticipate this and Punish. You want to be aggro to discourage the lasers, but be patient with the apporaoch.
Samus: Note: Samus can be Infinited. Learn it and instill the fear of the close encounter. Nowadays the Brawl version of samus will at advanced levels use lots of the air grabs. due to its stun it can be used to hold you at bay, combined with missles, and her sex kick. (n-air). You know that her recovery is still good, so a good understanding of your air game is needed, as the majority of this battle will be played out in the air. Look for Dashing A, and as always look for the projectiles. Waddles can eat these, in fact one waddle can eat a fully charged Shot no problem, and the missiles too. your ftilt can block missiles and smaller charge shots too. So, once the projectile game is negated, you should have an easier time as Samus may feel pressured to bring the battle at a closer range.
Zero Suit Samus: A difficult matchup that requires more defense than offense usually. First off, the match starts, and you have to deal with the peices of armor she throws at you. Then she out manuvers you, has longer grab range, and beats your ftilit with her side B. your size makes it easy to combo once she gets a hold of you too. you can't chain grab her either. You should be able to deal with the first part, since, you can use them too, and you can ftilt the thrown pieces. after they are gone, your next goal is to get around that side B, not an easy thing to do if the player knows how good it is.
play defensively, baiting her to come to you, and if you can get her to come from the air that's you best chance due to your Uair, bair, and Uptilt. you want her above you, not below you. pester her with Waddles from outside her Side B range, but be on the look out for a Dash A real soon after that. I'd want her to be within my ftilt range and not get pushed outside of it. Her grab range is crazy, so use you judgement regarding how often she likes to use it. Waddles are a bit more important in this matchup, imo so be around one when you can.
Wario: Watch out for his high priority air approach, and don't fall for them, simply jump back and use your longer range arials to counter. I don't really see much of an issue as long as you play smart and keep him at mid range until you want to chain grab him. watch for the bike and keep air approaches to a minimum, he'll just block and throw. the bike is not an issue when you get used to it, it's best for recovery anyways, and then its a bit annoying. for me, if you negate the air game and control spacing, it becomes an easier match up. Also note that he gets a fully charged fart every 2 minutes. As for a viable finisher:
Try it. this works, but if you cant do it, oh well, stick to regular ol chaingrabbin'.
Thanks in advance for reading this thread, and helping out in the making of it. I will update as much as I can in order to finish this quickly, aside for mistakes and other updates.
