The Jet-Black General, Black Knight, Echoes into Smash

[LoopyBlack]

That leak is almost certainly real so...

The lack of Black Knight is definitely disappointing. Not necessarily surprising but... disappointing. Yeah there's always DLC but I'm worried that Sakurai will include a Three Houses character instead.

 

[Sigran101]

That leak is almost certainly real so...

The lack of Black Knight is definitely disappointing. Not necessarily surprising but... disappointing. Yeah there's always DLC but I'm worried that Sakurai will include a Three Houses character instead.

That's my concern for dlc too.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Ya'll see that mural leak? Things don't look good for Black Knight if it's real, but as long as he's not a assist there's always DLC.

Assuming he doesn’t have a role in the base game I could see him being part of an Echo Fighter pack.

 

[LostEggs]

I hope Sakurai goes with Black Knight and not a Three Houses rep. FE deserves a vilian. There's no way a fighter like him would be wasted as a boss, especially since he is *not* reflective of FE and it's final Boss's.

 

[NineLannister]

I more see him as a boss, to be honest. I'm a little bummed, but not terribly surprised since we already had Chrom added as a new FE rep.

Even still, A+ rad roster.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Every boss has been a lot bigger than the fighters, though, which is why I can't see BK being a boss.

 

[Machete]

The best hope is that echo dlcs are a thing.

 

[LostEggs]

https://youtu.be/6b3QRObLD54
So it sounds like that mural leak may not have had every character on it. Spawnwave a supposedly credible leaker said there's more characters and that there's still one "big" character left that isn't on the Mural leak. If it is characters as in plural, maybe Black Knight might be in the base roster? At this point I'm banking on dlc, but anythings possible.

 

[CrimsonFlash]

https://youtu.be/6b3QRObLD54
So it sounds like that mural leak may not have had every character on it. Spawnwave a supposedly credible leaker said there's more characters and that there's still one "big" character left that isn't on the Mural leak. If it is characters as in plural, maybe Black Knight might be in the base roster? At this point I'm banking on dlc, but anythings possible.

I would like to note that assuming the banner is real (there is nothing absolute) there is nothing that says it is final, sakurai could do an 11th hour announcement if he wanted to, the only stipulation was that we would know the full roster before launch there was nothing saying that we would be seeing everything then sitting on our hands for a month looking longingly at the full game, I also do think that there is still the chances of this being an elaborate hoax (unlikely I admit, as it seems well put together), the fact that someone let their name out is suspicious and the grinch promotional art only screams your name to the management, if we don't hear anything about someone being publicly executed by daddy sakurai personally, I doubt it is real, how many people do you think had their hands on both grinch and smash bros promotional materials, the leaker would be so easy to track down that he may as well off himself now because his life is over, this leaker is either faking it or he is incredibly dumb, if he is real, I will delight in seeing him punished in excess.

 

[LoopyBlack]

https://youtu.be/6b3QRObLD54
So it sounds like that mural leak may not have had every character on it. Spawnwave a supposedly credible leaker said there's more characters and that there's still one "big" character left that isn't on the Mural leak. If it is characters as in plural, maybe Black Knight might be in the base roster? At this point I'm banking on dlc, but anythings possible.

So one theory I saw says that this banner isn't the final version of the banner. Maybe it's for a promotional event that will take place before some final reveals.

As far as BK is concerned: I don't know. All ten of the new fighters are here for really good reasons. They were characters that fans have wanted for years (Ridley, Geno, K Rool, Isaac), or 3rd party characters that have huge significance with Nintendo (Simon, Banjo), or characters that were planned in past games (Mach Rider, Chorus Kids, Chrom) etc. I feel like Black Knight doesn't have any of these things. He would be low-priority given the fact that they are focusing on popular characters. And that's why it's kinda weird to me that Waddle Dee isn't in there. He polled well in Japan; honestly I thought that was all it took.

These youtubers who insist that they have insider info... Some of them leave a bad taste in my mouth. Like they'll go on a podcast and just, unapologetically, in front of hundreds of live viewers... say something like "oh wait, are we not allowed to talk about THAT character yet??" in some cases it's just obnoxious and doesn't add anything to the discussion. You're either wrong, in which case you just seem kind of pathetic. Or you're right, and you're just making the speculation less fun. It's especially annoying that some of them will look at this extremely compelling leak and still say "but... but MY sources said ___ was in so this must be wrong!". Believing their "insider sources" over what's sitting right in front of them. Spawnwave, at least, has retracted his assertion that this leak *must* be fake because his sources have conflicting info. PapaGenos, at least, recognized the possibility that these people were given false info. I think that's probably what happened, honestly. Sorry about the rant, these youtubers aren't super relevant to BK anyway. If Spawnwave comes out and says BK is in the game, I'll be more inclined to believe him. lol

 

[CrimsonFlash]

actually, assuming the black knight isn't in the base roster, I think he would likely be in the first batch of dlc with dixie kong, the changes made to stages and other characters could be seen as preparing to add characters who were not high enough priority to be in at base, I hear diddy no longer uses his tail and I mentioned Ike's better posture earlier.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

I really don't buy there being more characters if the mural is real, and if they are, probably early dlc plans, given the base game is pretty much done. 7 ontop of more is absolutely ludicrous, considering we just have a little over a month left of the game's launch.

 

[LostEggs]

I mean, going off of Source Gaming's (by comparison to the smash ballot) tiny poll, iirc Black Knight did about as well as Chrom. With the changes to Castle Siege, the little changes with Ike, and the Mii costume being the same as K Rool's I think he will be early DLC. Now I don't know if he'd be wave 1 or 2, but with all the things he does have going I can see him as dlc. Additionally, since Sakurai said "don't expect too many new comers" (dispite us getting 16 reps, provided the mural is legit) he might have quite a few planned DLC new comers. And I can absolutely see Black Knight getting the Isabele treatment due to his general form. I'm of the opinion that some of the first DLC new comers will be vilians such as Skull Kid, Medusa, and Black Knight. So they can save the big third party reps for last as DLC.

 

[smashingDoug]

Hope he’s a boss at least with the chance of a promotion to fighter dlc.

Same for Lyn.


But as it’s been said it will probably be a three house character. Or an odd ball, my top thoughts are the three Anna, alm, and or celica.


But me I’ll would not complain if we got all of them as dlc.

along with azura as a dlc fighter. She’s the main character of fates no?

 

[Barbasol]

If our Black Knight isn't on the main roster - no sweat. He was DLC last time, can always be DLC this time.

Honestly, if that roster turns out to be true, we're in for an amazing full roster.

 

[CrimsonFlash]

Hope he’s a boss at least with the chance of a promotion to fighter dlc.

Same for Lyn.

along with azura as a dlc fighter. She’s the main character of fates no?

please don't even assume that promotion DLC will ever be a thing, only two characters have broken those shackles and that was between games, sakurai refuses to even give ganondorf a new moveset that makes more sense, he has a tendency to be very rigid about tradition, besides why should smash team go out of their way to make an assist or boss only to have it's existence invalidated by releasing the character as a dlc fighter, the purpose of assist trophies and bosses is to let in characters who just don't work in smash why invalidate that and take up time to add something new, I would much prefer a medeus boss to a black knight if only because medeus will never be in smash bros

azura is not the main character of fates, that is corrin, also, come back when you have an actual moveset that would be worthwhile to add to smash bros, cuz azura ain't got one.

 

[smashingDoug]

please don't even assume that promotion DLC will ever be a thing, only two characters have broken those shackles and that was between games, sakurai refuses to even give ganondorf a new moveset that makes more sense, he has a tendency to be very rigid about tradition, besides why should smash team go out of their way to make an assist or boss only to have it's existence invalidated by releasing the character as a dlc fighter, the purpose of assist trophies and bosses is to let in characters who just don't work in smash why invalidate that and take up time to add something new, I would much prefer a medeus boss to a black knight if only because medeus will never be in smash bros

azura is not the main character of fates, that is corrin, also, come back when you have an actual moveset that would be worthwhile to add to smash bros, cuz azura ain't got one.

Hey I don’t think that promotion dlc is going be a thing, And it could only work for a few if you think about it. But to answer why they would be a boss or an assist first then dlc. the only thing I can think of is kinda of dumb though, is because they weren’t really finished so they put them as a boss.


Hey sorry haven’t got to fates yet. But It’s not like Azura wasn’t marked when fates was coming out. And she’s in fire emblem warriors. If it can be enough of a reason to support some Zelda who were in Hyrule warriors why not her. Do people just not like her.

But I guess I should say haven’t played FEW yet. Is her moveset good?

 

[LostEggs]

Hey I don’t think that promotion dlc is going be a thing, And it could only work for a few if you think about it. But to answer why they would be a boss or an assist first then dlc. the only thing I can think of is kinda of dumb though, is because they weren’t really finished so they put them as a boss.


Hey sorry haven’t got to fates yet. But It’s not like Azura wasn’t marked when fates was coming out. And she’s in fire emblem warriors. If it can be enough of a reason to support some Zelda who were in Hyrule warriors why not her. Do people just not like her.

But I guess I should say haven’t played FEW yet. Is her moveset good?

She's a Meta unit in FEW. But if we were going with a Spear user it should be Ephraim. That said, I think the first two waves of DLC are going to be first parties. Being characters such as Black Knight, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Medusa. With the last two waves focusing on third parties.

 

[LoopyBlack]

azura is not the main character of fates, that is corrin, also, come back when you have an actual moveset that would be worthwhile to add to smash bros, cuz azura ain't got one.

She's a Meta unit in FEW. But if we were going with a Spear user it should be Ephraim.

Surprised to see these comments because I think Azura has plenty of moveset potential. More so than Ephraim. She can use lances, obviously. But FEW took creative liberties with her singing abilities and showed that she be a really cool fighter. of course Sharena would get in before either of them

That said, I don't think she'll be included. We already have a Fates fighter and I think Sakurai is aware of all the salt that FE fighters produce. If he is going to add another FE fighter, it will be one that's chosen very carefully. There aren't any FE characters who are particularly popular with Smash's player base (judging from unofficial ballot results). So that leads me to think that a new FE fighter would almost certainly be from Three Houses. Either for marketing purposes or for popularity that's yet to be seen. Sure, there have only been two fighters added for "marketing purposes", but they were both from Fire Emblem.

I don't know where BK stands honestly. This new set of newcomers leads me to think that characters have to have a really good reason to be included. I could've figured that was the case before the leak, judging from our first 5 newcomers... idk, I guess having 5 more newcomers to analyze was enough to confirm my suspicions. I don't think "is a villain" is a compelling enough reason to add BK (as far as Sakurai is concerned). If I had to imagine a scenario where he'd be added... Maybe if semi-clones are significantly easier to develop than wholly unique fighters, then I could see it happening. Isabelle is a semi-clone whose popularity can't be measured with ballot results. The same would probably be true for BK, if he were added. I'm not optimistic though.

 

[LostEggs]

Surprised to see these comments because I think Azura has plenty of moveset potential. More so than Ephraim. She can use lances, obviously. But FEW took creative liberties with her singing abilities and showed that she be a really cool fighter. of course Sharena would get in before either of them

That said, I don't think she'll be included. We already have a Fates fighter and I think Sakurai is aware of all the salt that FE fighters produce. If he is going to add another FE fighter, it will be one that's chosen very carefully. There aren't any FE characters who are particularly popular with Smash's player base (judging from unofficial ballot results). So that leads me to think that a new FE fighter would almost certainly be from Three Houses. Either for marketing purposes or for popularity that's yet to be seen. Sure, there have only been two fighters added for "marketing purposes", but they were both from Fire Emblem.

I don't know where BK stands honestly. This new set of newcomers leads me to think that characters have to have a really good reason to be included. I could've figured that was the case before the leak, judging from our first 5 newcomers... idk, I guess having 5 more newcomers to analyze was enough to confirm my suspicions. I don't think "is a villain" is a compelling enough reason to add BK (as far as Sakurai is concerned). If I had to imagine a scenario where he'd be added... Maybe if semi-clones are significantly easier to develop than wholly unique fighters, then I could see it happening. Isabelle is a semi-clone whose popularity can't be measured with ballot results. The same would probably be true for BK, if he were added. I'm not optimistic though.

I actually highly doubt a Three Houses rep, and it's for the reason that Corrin was added into Wii U. The development team had to convince Sakurai to add Corrin, and they had to pitch a moveset to him. That was the only reason that, that particular promotional character got in. In addition (assuming it's Eldegarde) a Three Houses rep would keep up the one thing in particular that earns FE ire from the rest of the community, adding another (and I hate to say this) anime pretty boy sword lord.

Now I won't profess to know how Sakurai picks out characters beyond what he himself has already stated publicly. But, I think it's reasonable to say that the Mii costume collective are characters he has his eye on. And if we get any more FE reps through DLC it's most likely Black Knight or Veronica (assuming we don't get both, that'd be cool). Granted, we have no idea if the DLC/DLC waves will be extensive or how many characters are planned/in the talks over.

 

[CrimsonFlash]

I actually highly doubt a Three Houses rep, and it's for the reason that Corrin was added into Wii U. The development team had to convince Sakurai to add Corrin, and they had to pitch a moveset to him. That was the only reason that, that particular promotional character got in. In addition (assuming it's Eldegarde) a Three Houses rep would keep up the one thing in particular that earns FE ire from the rest of the community, adding another (and I hate to say this) anime pretty boy sword lord.

Now I won't profess to know how Sakurai picks out characters beyond what he himself has already stated publicly. But, I think it's reasonable to say that the Mii costume collective are characters he has his eye on. And if we get any more FE reps through DLC it's most likely Black Knight or Veronica (assuming we don't get both, that'd be cool). Granted, we have no idea if the DLC/DLC waves will be extensive or how many characters are planned/in the talks over.

ah but you are mistaken, edgelord is not a pretty boy with a sword, but an anime passable girl with an axe (who seems to fight as though it were a sword so no major difference, I would also get a kick out of swords being her primary weapon in the story due to her having a sword rank)

personally, I want the little dragon girl if we are getting a 3 houses rep, would be way more interesting than any of the main 3 characters IMO.

nice to know that even sakurai knew that corn was a bad idea, he should have not agreed, corrin certainly doesn't help the fire emblem image in smash due to his generally not being liked as anything other than a waifu for the female variant.

 

[LostEggs]

Eh, tbh I don't even remember who's who in Three Houses. I would prefer Adult Tiki or Black Knight being in as DLC. Namely because Tiki would be very unique among the cast, and we've already discussed Black Knight so yeah.

 

[CrimsonFlash]

Eh, tbh I don't even remember who's who in Three Houses. I would prefer Adult Tiki or Black Knight being in as DLC. Namely because Tiki would be very unique among the cast, and we've already discussed Black Knight so yeah.

I think young tiki would be better, purely because we don't need a fourth freaking awakening rep, I'm still torn on manakete movesets personally, I am afraid of them ending up too awkward to actually be implemented, a real shame too on account of them being one of my favorite things in fire emblem.

 

[FieryRebirth]

I actually highly doubt a Three Houses rep, and it's for the reason that Corrin was added into Wii U. The development team had to convince Sakurai to add Corrin, and they had to pitch a moveset to him. That was the only reason that, that particular promotional character got in. In addition (assuming it's Eldegarde) a Three Houses rep would keep up the one thing in particular that earns FE ire from the rest of the community, adding another (and I hate to say this) anime pretty boy sword lord.

Now I won't profess to know how Sakurai picks out characters beyond what he himself has already stated publicly. But, I think it's reasonable to say that the Mii costume collective are characters he has his eye on. And if we get any more FE reps through DLC it's most likely Black Knight or Veronica (assuming we don't get both, that'd be cool). Granted, we have no idea if the DLC/DLC waves will be extensive or how many characters are planned/in the talks over.

That's news to me; I didn't know Sakurai was hesitant on adding Corrin. It does make me wonder if he wanted Roy in as well for Melee since both he and Corrin were advertisements to their games at the time.

 

[LostEggs]

I think young tiki would be better, purely because we don't need a fourth freaking awakening rep, I'm still torn on manakete movesets personally, I am afraid of them ending up too awkward to actually be implemented, a real shame too on account of them being one of my favorite things in fire emblem.

I don't mean to sound contrarian, but I really don't like lolis. And it wouldn't feel right to hit a little girl (I know they ain't real and it's sorta hypocritical). I wouldn't say Tiki is an Awakening character, she's a recurring Shadow Dragon character.

That's news to me; I didn't know Sakurai was hesitant on adding Corrin. It does make me wonder if he wanted Roy in as well for Melee since both he and Corrin were advertisements to their games at the time.

He was quite reluctant to add Corrin. Iirc there was an interview where he said when the pitch was throw his way he thought there was too many FE characters at the time.

 

[HypnoMaster372]

That's news to me; I didn't know Sakurai was hesitant on adding Corrin. It does make me wonder if he wanted Roy in as well for Melee since both he and Corrin were advertisements to their games at the time.

As far as I know, a Marth Clone was originally planned for Melee in the first place & was originally going to be the Main Protagonist of the latest Fire Emblem at the time; Leif from Tharicia 776. But when Sakurai went over to IS Headquarters to ask for permission to use Leif, he caught eye of the next FE game being developed; Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade, & well, he then thought & proceeded to instead ask if he would be able to add the Protagonist of the Upcoming FE Game as the Marth Clone instead so they could help advertise the coming game. &, that's how Roy in Melee happened !

 

[CrimsonFlash]

I don't mean to sound contrarian, but I really don't like lolis. And it wouldn't feel right to hit a little girl (I know they ain't real and it's sorta hypocritical). I wouldn't say Tiki is an Awakening character, she's a recurring Shadow Dragon character.

Young tiki's build would also greatly contrast the other fire emblem characters making her stand out (I'd put her at toon link or young link), meanwhile adult tiki is around lucina's height, not to mention young tiki is the one with the amiibo and 4 games under her belt, she is the most iconic form of tiki like it or not, not like there aren't little kids to beat up in smash already anyways.
also adult tiki is an awakening character, young tiki is a shadow dragon character, the difference is massive (I swear to god, who ever makes a quip at that...) in both personality and design, I would hesitate to refer to them as the same character, they are only the same in name and some design cues (not that many mind you, even her tunic is a different color in awakening).

but I feel like this may be getting off track.

 

[LostEggs]

40 minute Smash Direct on November 1st baby. Here's hoping Black Knight is announced as DLC.

 

[CrimsonFlash]

40 minute Smash Direct on November 1st baby. Here's hoping Black Knight is announced as DLC.

the Ideal circumstance of him being in the base game is still possible (even if the leak is true), the sheer number of characters was the only evidence we have that that would be the final roster, while yes, it is unlikely, it isn't off the table outright, I better keep the gamestop tab open to cancel my special edition pre order just incase sakurai decides to be the dumbest person you can be with the fire emblem roster (I will note that pyrosphere exists and am very fearful of that possibility, he could still be in under the absolute worst circumstances, but I don't like to gamble personally)

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm hoping for a miracle on Thursday, I'm definitely not expecting him to be in at this point, but that doesn't mean I can't remain hopeful.

 

[SSB4 Roy Pharae]

If someone has the YouTube version of the upcoming Nintendo Direct presentation, it'd be much appreciated and I can favorite it for Thursday morning (Central Time).

 

[LostEggs]

I'm hoping for a miracle on Thursday, I'm definitely not expecting him to be in at this point, but that doesn't mean I can't remain hopeful.

Well, some insiders think there may be a character or two left. So here's hoping, though I won't hold my breath.

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Hoping for a miracle. Please, we need our Jet-Black General!

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Seems that everyone is going absolutely crazy over what's real. I guess in a way, the Grinch leak being such a talking point, and looking more and more believable was a blessing for our support of Black Knight, given we've had at least a week to brace ourselves at the idea he potentially wouldn't be playable. If it happens, awesome, pop the champagne. If not, oh well, I've had some time to let the reality sink in.

 

[SSB4 Roy Pharae]

Okay. I finally found the YouTube version of the presentation and I'll post this here, for those who want to watch it from there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbu0LaQxmc

Let's see what happens around that time.

 

[CrimsonFlash]

I just want to say, screw sakurai so freaking hard, not just for my sake but for isaac fans as well, also only 5 DLC fighters just hurts.

edit: piranha plant is also a massive slap in the face to waluigi fans, something that only really makes sense as an assist trophy, added as fighter, someone who could represent the mario sports titles, added as an assist. and don't get me started on sakurai being short sighted about dlc, why no echo fighters, shoot I think 5 echo fighters alongside the dlc would be a good idea. hype is dead, screw chrom and his fans.

 

[LostEggs]

So the dream is dead.

 

[mynameisBlade]

An easy Ike echo. I have no clue why Sakurai wouldn't just add him in... Do echoes affect balance that much... Doubtful... R.I.P. my second most wanted Echo ..Black Knight..

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Of course I would have loved to have him playable, but when it comes to an irrelevant Fire Emblem character (at least in the main series) I never had an expectation he'd make it, neither here or as DLC. I know not many will feel this way, because I sure didn't when it came to Ridley in Brawl and Smash 4, but I'm just happy that he's in and is getting more recognition than just being a Spirit, it means he's not just being forgotten by the passages of time.

And hell, at least we have a high quality 3D model of him in the game, so modders will do their job I reckon.

 

[NineLannister]

I had resigned myself to the Black Knight not being playable, but I admit to being a part of #TeamReal. Being a major Isaac fan, and getting shafted in favor of Kencineroar/Box Theory hurts. DLC is cool, but still feels like a major tease.

I guess the grinch leak was so blurry because it was sent to us from a better timeline.