Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
It appears that you are using ad block :'(
Hey, we get it. However this website is run by and for the community... and it needs ads in order to keep running.
Please disable your adblock on Smashboards, or go premium to hide all advertisements and this notice. Alternatively, this ad may have just failed to load. Woops!
The sound-off? lol Well glad y'all like my stage. A neat feature of my Shantae stage is that you can go into her hair where the bangs are. You can either then jump up on top of her head or land on her ear. The ear has lava on it though but If you go through there you should be able to pass through the ponytail holder to get back on top of the head. It might not work with large characters like Bowser though lol.
Edit: If anyone wants my Shantae stage just shoot me a friend request on my TwinkleDoodle account on Miiverse. Its the least I could do for my fellow Shantae supporters on here. You guys have been awesome!
The sound-off? lol Well glad y'all like my stage. A neat feature of my Shantae stage is that you can go into her hair where the bangs are. You can either then jump up on top of her head or land on her ear. The ear has lava on it though but If you go through there you should be able to pass through the ponytail holder to get back on top of the head. It might not work with large characters like Bowser though lol.
Edit: If anyone wants my Shantae stage just shoot me a friend request on my TwinkleDoodle account on Miiverse. Its the least I could do for my fellow Shantae supporters on here. You guys have been awesome!
Yeah I'm glad you brought this up, since it deserves clarification. Let me explain.
Etika wanted to make his poll as inclusive as possible, which meant including as many candidates as possible. The only problem was that I guess strawpoll imposes limits on the total number of options you can put on a single poll. Rather than cutting out characters he wanted to include, he decided to break it up into three different polls. Instead of making a single poll, he made three different polls: one for characters with names A - I, one for characters K - S, and one for characters S - Z.
That means that if you want to get an accurate idea of who the top 5 are, you have to look at who has the most votes across all three polls. Snake is leading the last poll with the largest number of votes of any character. Shovel Knight is leading the second poll, but has fewer votes than Snake. Banjo-Kazooie is leading the first poll, but has fewer votes than Shovel Knight. Shantae is 2nd place in the second poll, and has fewer votes than BK. Inklings are 2nd place in the first poll, but have fewer votes than Shantae. Wolf is 2nd place in the third poll, but has fewer votes than Inklings. Everyone else has fewer votes than them. You can proceed the same way to get a full sense of the rankings.
That is why Shantae is 4th overall, despite that one poll displaying her as 2nd.
EDIT: If you count the total votes across all polls, there are nearly 70,000 votes, HOLY **** that's a lot.
Honestly, at this point, I think Shantae has enough popularity to at least get a Mii Fighter costume if not a spot in the roster. While I'd prefer the latter, I'll take what I can get lol
I've written way too much to counter anti-Shantae arguments in the past. Here is some random stuff I've written that you might find useful for your video:
By far the most common argument people give for thinking Shantae has no chance is that she is third party and not a giant gaming icon. Here is a slightly edited version of the explanation I always give for why this is a poor argument:
It's no secret that so far all of the third party characters in Smash are huge gaming icons. However we need to be a little more cautious when inferring things about the decision making process behind this.
Why would the dev team want to limit the number of third party characters? Presumably for three reasons: 1) because boosting third party characters isn't necessarily in Nintendo's commercial interests if it benefits their rivals, 2) because third party characters threaten to dilute the Nintendo flavor of the game, and 3) because negotiating IP rights for third party characters can be difficult and expensive.
Since third party characters generally present all three of these obstacles, they would only be worth including if they were such gaming legends that their prestige outweighs all three of those factors. However if a third party character had a near exclusive relationship with Nintendo, and the company that owned them were eager to see their character included, then the dev team might decide that those three reasons are not so applicable. Furthermore the dev team might feel that since the characters are DLC as opposed to content included in the main purchase, restrictions like those first two can be applied more loosely.
I would guess that Nintendo's thought process is something like that, especially given that Nintendo clarified that ANY videogame characters are fair game when asked specifically about third party characters.
It's also possible that instead, Nintendo just has an inviolable rule against third party characters in Smash, with special exceptions made only for the most iconic faces in all of gaming. We don't know. The point is that we can only speculate on the subject, and anyone who claims to know for sure one way or the other is full of ****. As fans all we can do is express our opinions, cast our votes, and hope for the best.
~
As for Shantae's popularity in the polls, there are no good polls right now. It just depends which ones you look at. In fact, in pretty much every poll out there from the last 2-3 months, Shantae has been doing extremely well - a top 3 or top 5 character pretty much across the board. That placement for Shantae is both extremely good and remarkably consistent. But in any case, the ballot isn't won by popular vote anyway. Shantae will definitely be popular enough that Sakurai and the dev team will at least look at and discuss her as a potential character, and at that point what matters won't be whether she scored #5 or #15 on the ballot, but the actual reasons for and against her inclusion. And that is exactly the position that Shantae wants to be in.
~
The last argument I hear against Shantae is that she isn't well-known in Japan. This is harder to argue against than the third party thing, but only because the third party character thing is obvious bs.
Lack of recognition in Japan is a drawback for Shantae, but it's very unlikely to be a fatal issue for her. We don't have any way of knowing exactly how Sakurai will weigh this factor. Ken Sugimori of Pokemon fame has expressed his support for Shantae, so clearly he doesn't think it's an impossible idea, and presumably he has more insight into how these factors are considered than any of us do. In any case, it is very hard to imagine most Japanese fans reacting negatively to Shantae's announcement - cute female characters tend to go over well there. This is the country that invented the "waifu" concept after all. Plus this argument is growing more and more outdated by the day - Shantae and the Pirate's Curse is releasing in Japan very soon in physical format. She doesn't even have a physical release here! Plus across Japanese Miiverse and twitter, Shantae buzz has started to pick up a lot over the last month or so. Especially with such initial strong buzz for a game that isn't even out there yet, Nintendo could very well see this as an opportunity to make a ton of extra sales in Japan as her games start releasing there.
~
And here's the point to be made about all these objections, which should really be brought up with all of them, especially the lack of Japanese recognition complaint. Shantae faces obstacles, sure. But she is totally viable when you consider the context of the characters she is competing with. With the exception of K. Rool, Wolf, and maybe Isaac, all of the characters she competes with also face big obstacles that when considered in isolation, could keep them out of the game. Indeed, these obstacles explain why none of these characters have made it yet. However one or more of these characters aside from K. Rool, Wolf, and Isaac is likely to make it in as DLC. Shantae has a very reasonable shot at being one of them.
As for positive arguments in favor of Shantae, TheRickyWill
has a post in here with a lot of excellent hype essays about why Shantae deserves to be in Smash, and I recommend you look at that. I've written the following:
Shantae in Smash would create a ton of buzz about Smash DLC, and would also cause a massive spike in recognition and popularity for one of the most deserving indie franchises out there. Plus Shantae would be so damn fun and unique to play as in Smash, and would feel right at home in the roster. A Smash appearance would be the perfect culmination of her and WayForward's history with Nintendo, and a special honor they both richly deserve. Furthermore, for Shantae it's now or never: she's about to go multi platform, so if she is ever getting into Smash, it pretty much has to be right now. That's not really the case for any other ballot contenders. And if Shantae does get added, it will set her up to always have a special relationship with Nintendo, whatever other consoles she appears on. On every level, this just feels like Shantae's big moment.
(written in response asking why you would want to see Shantae in Smash, aside from reasons relating to aesthetics/history, i.e. "non-gameplay" reasons)
Well if you are asking purely in terms of gameplay, the answer is that Shantae has a ton of moves to draw on. Seriously, movesets for Shantae basically write themselves. Hair whipping is her signature attack and the move I am most excited to try out in Smash: I imagine it being a low power but highly effective spacing tool on a light, agile character, which is pretty different from most of the cast. That is pretty much how I imagine her playing out. Light, agile, but with a good spacing tool, some neat tricks up her sleeve, and a few surprisingly powerful but hard to land kill moves. Sounds like a blast to play as to me.
For specials she has plenty aside from genie transformations to draw on. Her latest game, Pirate's Curse, featured no transformations whatsoever, and is loaded with moves that would translate perfectly into moves for Smash Bros. Forget coming up with four unique specials, with Shantae you have enough material to work with that most if not all of her A moves could also be taken directly from her games. That's not even true for characters like Samus and Mario - how related to their games are most of their a moves?
If you were just curious to hear arguments aside from things like character/art design/history with Nintendo, I don't blame you, since these things get stressed for Shantae a lot. However I do also want to say that factors like art/character design do and should matter - they are a big part of what make videogame characters memorable and fun to play as. Smash wouldn't be 10% as popular or fun if you replaced all the characters with generic fighting game characters. An essential ingredient to the magic of Smash bros is that the whole game is a celebration of so many memorable, colorful characters and games. This is shown by the amazing, over the top soundtrack for Smash Bros. Those don't exist for gameplay reasons, they exist because the game is meant to celebrate as fully as possible all the different games and characters it brings together. It is no minor detail that Shantae would bring a lot to the game in terms of her design and what she represents.
As for her hourglass figure, I should mention that even though I'm an avid Shantae supporter, I hate "fan service" and cringe harder than anyone when people sexualize videogame characters. I'm always the one who grumbles loudest that Samus should be a more threatening Smash character with her suit on rather than off, and should look taller and more muscular. I tend to favor big heavy characters anyways, not characters like Shantae. K Rool is more in line with the characters I typically play. It's just that there are so many good reasons for wanting Shantae in this game, I am won over.
If you look through my comment history on reddit, you will find a lot more that I have written, but what I've copied into this post is the meat of it.
You are welcome to use whatever I have. You don't even have to cite it if you don't want to - all I care about is bringing in more votes for Shantae.
Man, those Etika polls. K. Rool not even making top 5 right now? Insanity. Whatever you think of Etika, we know he's a Shantae supporter, and this is likely the last big push for her before the ballot closes in a couple days. Shantae is sitting comfortably at #4 right now on his very large polls, so let's make sure she stays there and makes his final top 5 poll. He will probably release some video about the top 5 before the ballot closes, and as long as Shantae makes the cut, Etika could be the last prominent YouTuber to show her some love before the ballot closes.
For anyone curious, if you look at vote scores across his three ballots, here is the current top 5:
The placements seem fairly stable right now, but the vote totals are constantly climbing, so definitely make sure to keep up the support for Shantae - vote on your phone too! Snake and Shovel Knight are neck and neck, but haven't ever actually swapped places for as long as I've been watching.
On a side note, I hope that Yacht Club is sending Tamaki a check in the mail, because he really gave Shovel Knight a huge revival in the ballot by going all in with his reputation on that bogus rumor. Fortunately Shantae seems to be holding her own in spite of that.
Here are the next 6-10:
6. Wolf 2072
7. Sora (?!) 1733
8. K. Rool 1681
9. Isaac 1545
10. Rayman 1521
Wolf is only about 50 votes behind BK, but he seems to be staying there. Poor K. Rool though - what happened to him?? I haven't seem him lose a poll this badly since, well, ever. Also where on earth did Sora come from? The only time I've seen him get that many votes was on one poll that didn't have IP protection, and it was a case of totally blatant vote tampering. Every other poll I've ever seen shows his support as negligible. I know this one does have IP protection, but still, it makes you wonder...
Ice Climbers get honorable mention at #11. There is a big gap between them and the next candidate, and the next candidate is Goku, so anyone not mentioned here is doing really badly in this poll.
I'm not sure what to make of these polls - the vote counts are so huge already, and the results look pretty different from most other polls. It's a testament to the strength of Shantae's popularity that her results here and elsewhere are so consistent. Whether this poll is reliable or not, it could have a pretty decent impact on last minute voting.
Wow though, GUYS THE BALLOT IS ALMOST DONE! Go vote in Etika's poll and on the ballot on literally every device you have that connects to the Internet. In just three days all the campaigning is done, so let's finish strong.
I am pretty glad that Shantae has had so many awesome supporters spreading the love for her, especially all of you here. She's a character that looked like she was going to be a total long shot, and now she's polling in the top 5 everywhere minus Japan, where she's got a rapidly growing presence. That could not have happened without you guys putting out Miiverse posts, and fan art, and supporting messages, and online votes in the poll and ballot, and everything else. Whatever else happens on October 3rd, I'm gonna be raising a drink to you guys. Rock on.
Hey everyone I'm back and I've been lurking while this thread was updating (mainly because it was hard to rest my password) I did a great sketch of Shantae on Tuesday so far my greatest drawing of our girl so far and reached 800 drawings on Friday and 815 is one last Shantae support image stay tuned for that!
Finished had a lot of fun with this one and now that makes 815 drawings so far this was quite a ride I hope we get good news if not it was fun to go through this with you guys
You know, it's funny, since I'm at an art college in Chicago I could probably just log into every computer and vote for Shantae when you think about it...
It depends on if Nintendo has learned their lesson about releasing data scraps before they're meant to be used. We'll probably know the answer by the end of the day, because the miners will no doubt be overzealous with the ballot closing just three days from now.
Seriously though, that's pretty baller. I might've even been pretty mad if they squandered this grand opportunity by only taking two characters from the ballot, so this makes me happy. Or it could mean we're getting last-minute pre-ballot characters, which would also be awesome.
Based on what we know. Getting other third party characters is a lot of legal work for Nintendo. BUT....if a 3rd party is actively wanting their character for Smash then it might help the process a lot. Can't wait for the final straw poll of the whole Ballot season. This is it guys, the moment I post the TOP FIVE straw poll WE MUST inform ALL Shantae fans and backers. Their is no room for error tomorrow/today. In 9 hours the final mission of our group begins.
My guess is that they are going to use those three slots on the next batch of characters, and then add 2-4 more for another batch a little later, and then that will be it.
I understand the logic of everyone saying to expect only 1-3 characters, but the pattern Sakurai has set so far has been to surprise us with more than expected. First, I wasn't expecting any DLC, and then we got Mewtwo. Then I was expecting Mewtwo to be the last of it, and we got surprised with the Lucas trailer and the Smash ballot announcement. Then when we were expecting to get just Lucas, we got Roy and Ryu at the same time as a complete surprise (or at least that was the intention). So now when people think that we should expect Sakurai to deliver just the minimum that he has promised us, I can't help but be a little skeptical of that idea.
My guess is that they are going to use those three slots on the next batch of characters, and then add 2-4 more for another batch a little later, and then that will be it.
I understand the logic of everyone saying to expect only 1-3 characters, but the pattern Sakurai has set so far has been to surprise us with more than expected. First, I wasn't expecting any DLC, and then we got Mewtwo. Then I was expecting Mewtwo to be the last of it, and we got surprised with the Lucas trailer and the Smash ballot announcement. Then when we were expecting to get just Lucas, we got Roy and Ryu at the same time as a complete surprise (or at least that was the intention). So now when people think that we should expect Sakurai to deliver just the minimum that he has promised us, I can't help but be a little skeptical of that idea.
The reason people always expect the minimum from Sakurai is because he always says he's going for the minimum. His initial statement about DLC characters and stages was "probably not many" and this has not changed, but we've already gotten four characters and seven stages before the ballot even ended. I honestly think that Sakurai has a different definition of "not many" than everyone else does, because he has already surpassed it.
Based on what we know. Getting other third party characters is a lot of legal work for Nintendo. BUT....if a 3rd party is actively wanting their character for Smash then it might help the process a lot. Can't wait for the final straw poll of the whole Ballot season. This is it guys, the moment I post the TOP FIVE straw poll WE MUST inform ALL Shantae fans and backers. Their is no room for error tomorrow/today. In 9 hours the final mission of our group begins.
Well guys, this is truly is it! Look how far we've come. It's pretty amazing to me.
Well, cheers people! Put on a brave face, and let's brace for impact over these next few days. https://youtu.be/Bio99hoZVYI
And some more hype music for you all. Slight spoilers if you haven't played Fire Emblem Awakening.
Well guys, this is truly is it! Look how far we've come. It's pretty amazing to me.
Well, cheers people! Put on a brave face, and let's brace for impact over these next few days. https://youtu.be/Bio99hoZVYI
And some more hype music for you all. Slight spoilers if you haven't played Fire Emblem Awakening.
Make that second place now. Both Shantae and Shovel Knight have suddenly boomed in votes, leaving Banjo & Kazooie and Inkling in the dust and are gradually gaining on Snake. It seems the indie supporters have come out of hiding. They actually have a fairly even race going, only being around 50 votes apart.
I woke up this morning and Shantae was in second place. Amazing work guys! These past few months contributing to this form have been awesome really hoping she gets in! If she does I vow to become the best Shantae player ever and beat Zero.
Based on what we know. Getting other third party characters is a lot of legal work for Nintendo. BUT....if a 3rd party is actively wanting their character for Smash then it might help the process a lot. Can't wait for the final straw poll of the whole Ballot season. This is it guys, the moment I post the TOP FIVE straw poll WE MUST inform ALL Shantae fans and backers. Their is no room for error tomorrow/today. In 9 hours the final mission of our group begins.
I agree. Shantae (and other indie characters) are not comparable in terms of legal difficulty to gaming titans. If you are Sega, what incentive do you have for Sonic to be in Smash? Exposure? No, Sonic is already pretty much maxed out on fame and exposure. Improved game sales? Maybe a little bit, but it's basically the same idea. The only profit Sega is getting from it is whatever royalties and fees they can extract from Nintendo, PLUS since Sonic is such an important icon for them, they have to be extremely extremely careful with how and when they authorize his appearance somewhere, and extremely controlling of the terms of that authorization. With Snake, Megaman, Ryu, and Pac-man it's the same idea. Their parent companies have a lot less to gain and a lot more to be wary of with signing over permission for the appearance of their characters. On top of that they are much larger companies with much larger legal teams. When you consider WayForward or Yacht Club Games though, they are smaller companies who would benefit massively from a Smash Bros appearance, even if they got a pittance in fees in royalties. It is unlikely that adding Shantae would be even a tenth of the legal battle that adding any of the third parties already in the game was.
I definitely agree about getting all the backers possible to vote tomorrow, I just wish I knew where to look for them lol. Fingers crossed though everybody, we are probably going to learn something very soon about the outcome of this ballot.
Make that second place now. Both Shantae and Shovel Knight have suddenly boomed in votes, leaving Banjo & Kazooie and Inkling in the dust and are gradually gaining on Snake. It seems the indie supporters have come out of hiding. They actually have a fairly even race going, only being around 50 votes apart.
I agree. Shantae (and other indie characters) are not comparable in terms of legal difficulty to gaming titans. If you are Sega, what incentive do you have for Sonic to be in Smash? Exposure? No, Sonic is already pretty much maxed out on fame and exposure. Improved game sales? Maybe a little bit, but it's basically the same idea. The only profit Sega is getting from it is whatever royalties and fees they can extract from Nintendo, PLUS since Sonic is such an important icon for them, they have to be extremely extremely careful with how and when they authorize his appearance somewhere, and extremely controlling of the terms of that authorization. With Snake, Megaman, Ryu, and Pac-man it's the same idea. Their parent companies have a lot less to gain and a lot more to be wary of with signing over permission for the appearance of their characters. On top of that they are much larger companies with much larger legal teams. When you consider WayForward or Yacht Club Games though, they are smaller companies who would benefit massively from a Smash Bros appearance, even if they got a pittance in fees in royalties. It is unlikely that adding Shantae would be even a tenth of the legal battle that adding any of the third parties already in the game was.
I definitely agree about getting all the backers possible to vote tomorrow, I just wish I knew where to look for them lol. Fingers crossed though everybody, we are probably going to learn something very soon about the outcome of this ballot.
Yeah there is a legal gulf. Snake may be the most popular 3rd party but with how Konami is acting the only way they'd be convinced is if there's enough sales projections so that saying yes basically=free money. Microsoft seems to have realised it with their unoffcial ok-ing of Banjo Kazooie.
For indies like Shantae and Shovel Knight it's a different story. Not only do they get the sale revenue, they get access to a MUCH larger audience (Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus both gained a great deal from their Smash appearances) and as a bonus, their characters rendered in HD3D.
I agree. Shantae (and other indie characters) are not comparable in terms of legal difficulty to gaming titans. If you are Sega, what incentive do you have for Sonic to be in Smash? Exposure? No, Sonic is already pretty much maxed out on fame and exposure. Improved game sales? Maybe a little bit, but it's basically the same idea. The only profit Sega is getting from it is whatever royalties and fees they can extract from Nintendo, PLUS since Sonic is such an important icon for them, they have to be extremely extremely careful with how and when they authorize his appearance somewhere, and extremely controlling of the terms of that authorization. With Snake, Megaman, Ryu, and Pac-man it's the same idea. Their parent companies have a lot less to gain and a lot more to be wary of with signing over permission for the appearance of their characters. On top of that they are much larger companies with much larger legal teams. When you consider WayForward or Yacht Club Games though, they are smaller companies who would benefit massively from a Smash Bros appearance, even if they got a pittance in fees in royalties. It is unlikely that adding Shantae would be even a tenth of the legal battle that adding any of the third parties already in the game was.
I definitely agree about getting all the backers possible to vote tomorrow, I just wish I knew where to look for them lol. Fingers crossed though everybody, we are probably going to learn something very soon about the outcome of this ballot.
Rights for Indie characters are significantly cheaper than that of your average 3rd party, which is why "cameo" characters in Indie games are so common nowadays.
Considering how Nintendo is really pushing Indies nowadays, I think they'd want to take advantage of Shantae's well-recieved arrival in Japan.
Yeah there is a legal gulf. Snake may be the most popular 3rd party but with how Konami is acting the only way they'd be convinced is if there's enough sales projections so that saying yes basically=free money. Microsoft seems to have realised it with their unoffcial ok-ing of Banjo Kazooie.
For indies like Shantae and Shovel Knight it's a different story. Not only do they get the sale revenue, they get access to a MUCH larger audience (Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus both gained a great deal from their Smash appearances) and as a bonus, their characters rendered in HD3D.
Shantae & Shovel Knight just seem like more "out there" characters, with fun and unique moveset potential and designs.
After Konami's recent business decisions and rudely firing Kojima (I say "rudely" because they had him stuck to a ball and chain until MGS5 was finished, and publicly said that they refuse to take questions about Kojima in interviews), who actually was a very close friend of Sakurai's, I'm not sure he'd want to reward them.
Banjo & Kazooie being from a 2nd party to Microsoft would instantly backfire on Nintendo, business-wise. Sales for Banjo-Kazooie, Tooie, and Rare Replay may rise in sales for those who own a Xbox 360 and/or One along with a Wii U/3DS, pretty much making the work of Sakurai's team unable to benefit them. Everyone's wearing thier nostalgia goggles too tight to realize this.
Rights for Indie characters are significantly cheaper than that of your average 3rd party, which is why "cameo" characters in Indie games are so common nowadays.
Considering how Nintendo is really pushing Indies nowadays, I think they'd want to take advantage of Shantae's well-recieved arrival in Japan.
Shantae & Shovel Knight just seem like more "out there" characters, with fun and unique moveset potential and designs.
After Konami's recent business decisions and rudely firing Kojima (I say "rudely" because they had him stuck to a ball and chain until MGS5 was finished, and publicly said that they refuse to take questions about Kojima in interviews), who actually was a very close friend of Sakurai's, I'm not sure he'd want to reward them.
Banjo & Kazooie being from a 2nd party to Microsoft would instantly backfire on Nintendo, business-wise. Sales for Banjo-Kazooie, Tooie, and Rare Replay may rise in sales for those who own a Xbox 360 and/or One along with a Wii U/3DS, pretty much making the work of Sakurai's team unable to benefit them. Everyone's wearing thier nostalgia goggles too tight to realize this.
