The Graveyard: Disconfirmed Character Thread (SAKURAAAAAAAAAI!)

[XStarWarriorX]

We all prefer the Pokemon TCG

As do I, but the opportunity was there.....

 

[APC99]

Lemme check the poll real quick...

186 votes? Times 12 questions?

2, 232 VOTES TO COUNT?

It may take a while to count votes...

Although Starfy's resolved one problem...

 

[Pacack]

Lemme check the poll real quick...

186 votes? Times 12 questions?

2, 232 VOTES TO COUNT?

It may take a while to count votes...

Although Starfy's resolved one problem...

I don't suppose I could still vote, could I? I had figured that you guys had closed the poll already.

 

[APC99]

I don't suppose I could still vote, could I? I had figured that you guys had closed the poll already.

You can still vote, I'll close it right after you respond. Just post when you've finished, and I'll begin counting votes.

 

[Pacack]

I have voted. Choosing my most wanted character was really difficult, but I ultimately chose Daitoryo since I would have predicted it (and someone else probably voted Pac-Man, but no one probably voted Daitoryo). Honerable mention to Pac-Man, though.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I think that the next poll should be about Sheik, Impa, Toon Zelda, Tetra and the Phantom.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think that the next poll should be about Sheik, Impa, Toon Zelda, Tetra and the Phantom.

Eh the only one I would call "disconfirmed" with some confidence is the Phantom. Sheik, Impa, Toon Zelda and Tetra are still safe so far in my opinion. :/

 

[Pacack]

I think that the next poll should be about Sheik, Impa, Toon Zelda, Tetra and the Phantom.

This time though, let's have a "hurts their chances, but doesn't completely deconfirm them" option.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I'm not considering anyone deconfirmed until Word of God proves otherwise. Even with the polls.

Also, how come I can't see the new poll in the OP?

 

[ClubbyBear]

Clearly the Phantom is dead too;
If it were controlhed for one, there would be eyes in it; and the pose she uses when "summoning" it is the same pose when she is being cheated on by Link and Peach.

 

[Sharkarat]

Clearly the Phantom is dead too; If it were controlhed for one, there would be eyes in it;

It's also pinkish, and only Zelda's Phantom have that color. For an Assist trophy it would make more sense for it to be pink+eyes or gray+no eyes.

and the pose she uses when "summoning" it is the same pose when she is being cheated on by Link and Peach.

Depending on how it works, there's lots possible ways to make that picture even if it's move.

But while we don't know it' exact role, the Phantom is deconfirmed as it's own character.

 

[Protom]

Ok Kappn! Why? You weren't so young! You weren't so wanted!!!

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Why is Nintendog not on the deconfirmed list? Same with Toad. Don't give me that blue toad bull****

And Ridley should be in the Morgue

 

[josh bones]

The hole is empty, ridley ain't deconfirmed, toad and nintendog should be though.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Maybe we should replace the morgue with a hospital.

 

[APC99]

The responses to the poll are rather big, I'm having trouble calculating them.

If anybody would like to help me by counting votes, PM me and I'll set it up so you can help me.

So far, there's one character on the list that's votes have been tallied: Waluigi.

The verdict is...

WALUIGI TIME!

which means absolutely nothing, and I guess it means he's still viable, since I forgot a "decreases his chances" option. So, the purple prankster is safe from harm!

 

[Pacack]

Saria makes an appearance as a trophy.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Don't think that really confirms anything. All fighters, bosses, and assist trophies get their own trophies. Even more so, trophies could end up having both Smash and Classic versions this time around.

None of us were really anticipating Saria to being the next Zelda rep anyhow. Worst case scenario, we throw her under Yellow Devil and Viridi.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Seeing a character appear as a trophy first usually isn't a good sign, but I highly doubt that Saria would ever be considered as a playable character to begin with anyway.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Saria got lost in the Lost Woods? How ironic.

Guess Skull Kid was still drunk from NYE.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Saria got lost in the Lost Woods? How ironic.

Guess Skull Kid was still drunk from NYE.

Someone needs to go into the Lost Woods and find her! Hmm... Sheik, how about you?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well not that it matters saria from zelda is toast

 

[Deleted member]

I say Saria is disconfirmed. It's not like she stood a real chance anyway. I only saw her having a shot when the planets align.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Being a trophy doesn't mean that the character is disconfirmed. But seing her pose (not a fighter one), sitting in a stone, and her model... yes she is just a trophy

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Wait, why hasn't Phantom been brought up here, eh?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Wait, why hasn't Phantom been brought up here, eh?

We still need to see if he's a new zelda move or not

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I should make myself more clear.

Trophies exist of everything. There are trophies of fighters, parts of movesets, Assist Trophies, Pokemon, items, enemies, bosses, and sometimes even stages. Seeing a trophy does not help us in the slightest. All it does is confirm that, through one way or another, they appear in Smash Bros. this time, period. If we disconfirm a character simply because we see them as a trophy of all things, we're not being as accurate as we should be. We disconfirmed Yellow Devil when we got solid proof that he is a stage hazard. We disconfirmed Balloon Fighter when the absolute signature part of his entire being was shoved into a part of Villager's moveset. We disconfirmed Skull Kid when we saw that he is actually an Assist Trophy. Spectacle disconfirmed these characters, not speculation. If we'd like to remain smart about this, we need to follow the formulaic "this character or character's hallmark essence was shown in a gameplay screenshot" method we've done up to this point.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Saria is playable. I don't think she ever will be playable. I never at one point thought she would be playable. It could have been her or anyone else, my point stands that this trophy shows nothing. Until we either get a copy of the games for ourselves, a 100% complete list of all the trophies in the 3DS version, or a screenshot showing that she is not a playable character in-game, we have no real basis for marking Saria as belonging in the graveyard. If we're about to do that, then either a double-standard is about to start or we need to mark off many other "will never happen" characters we've yet to see in-game yet. The latter would be ridiculous and inaccurate in every shape and form. The former would be just plain bull****.

Nobody here is arguing that Saria will be playable, but I am saying she should not have any relation to the graveyard for now. Until we get more information, she's as dead as Waluigi, Waddle Dee, and Ridley at this point in time.

 

[Pacack]

I should make myself more clear.

Trophies exist of everything. There are trophies of fighters, parts of movesets, Assist Trophies, Pokemon, items, enemies, bosses, and sometimes even stages. Seeing a trophy does not help us in the slightest. All it does is confirm that, through one way or another, they appear in Smash Bros. this time, period. If we disconfirm a character simply because we see them as a trophy of all things, we're not being as accurate as we should be. We disconfirmed Yellow Devil when we got solid proof that he is a stage hazard. We disconfirmed Balloon Fighter when the absolute signature part of his entire being was shoved into a part of Villager's moveset. We disconfirmed Skull Kid when we saw that he is actually an Assist Trophy. Spectacle disconfirmed these characters, not speculation. If we'd like to remain smart about this, we need to follow the formulaic "this character or character's hallmark essence was shown in a gameplay screenshot" method we've done up to this point.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Saria is playable. I don't think she ever will be playable. I never at one point thought she would be playable. It could have been her or anyone else, my point stands that this trophy shows nothing. Until we either get a copy of the games for ourselves, a 100% complete list of all the trophies in the 3DS version, or a screenshot showing that she is not a playable character in-game, we have no real basis for marking Saria as belonging in the graveyard. If we're about to do that, then either a double-standard is about to start or we need to mark off many other "will never happen" characters we've yet to see in-game yet. The latter would be ridiculous and inaccurate in every shape and form. The former would be just plain bull****.

Nobody here is arguing that Saria will be playable, but I am saying she should not have any relation to the graveyard for now. Until we get more information, she's as dead as Waluigi, Waddle Dee, and Ridley at this point in time.

Very well said.

 

[Jumpman84]

I should make myself more clear.

Trophies exist of everything. There are trophies of fighters, parts of movesets, Assist Trophies, Pokemon, items, enemies, bosses, and sometimes even stages. Seeing a trophy does not help us in the slightest. All it does is confirm that, through one way or another, they appear in Smash Bros. this time, period. If we disconfirm a character simply because we see them as a trophy of all things, we're not being as accurate as we should be. We disconfirmed Yellow Devil when we got solid proof that he is a stage hazard. We disconfirmed Balloon Fighter when the absolute signature part of his entire being was shoved into a part of Villager's moveset. We disconfirmed Skull Kid when we saw that he is actually an Assist Trophy. Spectacle disconfirmed these characters, not speculation. If we'd like to remain smart about this, we need to follow the formulaic "this character or character's hallmark essence was shown in a gameplay screenshot" method we've done up to this point.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Saria is playable. I don't think she ever will be playable. I never at one point thought she would be playable. It could have been her or anyone else, my point stands that this trophy shows nothing. Until we either get a copy of the games for ourselves, a 100% complete list of all the trophies in the 3DS version, or a screenshot showing that she is not a playable character in-game, we have no real basis for marking Saria as belonging in the graveyard. If we're about to do that, then either a double-standard is about to start or we need to mark off many other "will never happen" characters we've yet to see in-game yet. The latter would be ridiculous and inaccurate in every shape and form. The former would be just plain bull****.

Nobody here is arguing that Saria will be playable, but I am saying she should not have any relation to the graveyard for now. Until we get more information, she's as dead as Waluigi, Waddle Dee, and Ridley at this point in time.

inb4 Saria revealed as Zelda newcomer.

 

[Substitution]

inb4 Saria revealed as Zelda newcomer.

I prefer Octorok.

 

[FinalStarmen]

I should make myself more clear.

Trophies exist of everything. There are trophies of fighters, parts of movesets, Assist Trophies, Pokemon, items, enemies, bosses, and sometimes even stages. Seeing a trophy does not help us in the slightest. All it does is confirm that, through one way or another, they appear in Smash Bros. this time, period. If we disconfirm a character simply because we see them as a trophy of all things, we're not being as accurate as we should be. We disconfirmed Yellow Devil when we got solid proof that he is a stage hazard. We disconfirmed Balloon Fighter when the absolute signature part of his entire being was shoved into a part of Villager's moveset. We disconfirmed Skull Kid when we saw that he is actually an Assist Trophy. Spectacle disconfirmed these characters, not speculation. If we'd like to remain smart about this, we need to follow the formulaic "this character or character's hallmark essence was shown in a gameplay screenshot" method we've done up to this point.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Saria is playable. I don't think she ever will be playable. I never at one point thought she would be playable. It could have been her or anyone else, my point stands that this trophy shows nothing. Until we either get a copy of the games for ourselves, a 100% complete list of all the trophies in the 3DS version, or a screenshot showing that she is not a playable character in-game, we have no real basis for marking Saria as belonging in the graveyard. If we're about to do that, then either a double-standard is about to start or we need to mark off many other "will never happen" characters we've yet to see in-game yet. The latter would be ridiculous and inaccurate in every shape and form. The former would be just plain bull****.

Nobody here is arguing that Saria will be playable, but I am saying she should not have any relation to the graveyard for now. Until we get more information, she's as dead as Waluigi, Waddle Dee, and Ridley at this point in time.

Except, every character who has been who has been confirmed thus far (whether returning veteran or newcomer) has always been shown with their own respective character pages the day of their reveal, whereas Saria and other non-playable characters (Assist Trophies like Starfy, stage hazards like Yellow Devil) did not. Logically speaking, common sense would dictate Saria would be unplayable on the sole basis she lacked an official character announcement for playability, unlike say Zelda, who had her own page on the day of her announcement.

Unless Sakurai changes his character revealing formula (show them for the first time, then set up their own page the same exact day), then we can rightfully assume (for the most part) Saria would be disconfirmed.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Except, every character who has been who has been confirmed thus far (whether returning veteran or newcomer) has always been shown with their own respective character pages the day of their reveal, whereas Saria and other non-playable characters (Assist Trophies like Starfy, stage hazards like Yellow Devil) did not. Logically speaking, common sense would dictate Saria would be unplayable on the sole basis she lacked an official character announcement for playability, unlike say Zelda, who had her own page on the day of her announcement.

Unless Sakurai changes his character revealing formula (show them for the first time, then set up their own page the same exact day), then we can rightfully assume (for the most part) Saria would be disconfirmed.

Took the words out of my mouth.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Except, every character who has been who has been confirmed thus far (whether returning veteran or newcomer) has always been shown with their own respective character pages the day of their reveal, whereas Saria and other non-playable characters (Assist Trophies like Starfy, stage hazards like Yellow Devil) did not. Logically speaking, common sense would dictate Saria would be unplayable on the sole basis she lacked an official character announcement for playability, unlike say Zelda, who had her own page on the day of her announcement.

Unless Sakurai changes his character revealing formula (show them for the first time, then set up their own page the same exact day), then we can rightfully assume (for the most part) Saria would be disconfirmed.

And that's a fair point, too, until you consider that characters are shown within gameplay settings as they're disconfirmed. Unless we know that Classic trophies are not returning once again, however, it's hardly wise to say "Oh, this character is dead because we saw a trophy of them".

That's exactly the kind of **** that could lead to Sakurai showing Diskun's trophy to later reveal that Diskun is playable. I'm speaking figuratively, but knowing Sakurai's antics, that shouldn't be too far out of the realm of possible.

I'm just saying we shouldn't pronounce a character dead because they're probably dead. "___ is an assist trophy/stage hazard" text or an actual screenshot in-game, it shouldn't be hard to wait until we disconfirm someone through visual evidence. Disconfirmed status means factually proven, not what's implied.

Toad and Nintendog shouldn't even be under the morgue while Phantom should be disconfirmed outright if "Not coming with a character page = Dead" is going to be our main criteria, anyhow.

 

[APC99]

I agree with GRC. However, I have no control over the title anymore, due to the updates for Smashboards. It's extremely unlikely Saria is a fighter (it is her OoT3D model, and she's sitting on a stump with her fairy guardian) but, there are too many variables to count her out. Heck, Saria may be a fighter and this would be her Classic trophy, not her Smash or FS trophy!

Also, I truly do need help counting votes, so please PM me if you want to help the Graveyard and gain some experience in Dampe's legion!

 

[Krynxe]

And that's a fair point, too, until you consider that characters are shown within gameplay settings as they're disconfirmed. Unless we know that Classic trophies are not returning once again, however, it's hardly wise to say "Oh, this character is dead because we saw a trophy of them".

That's exactly the kind of **** that could lead to Sakurai showing Diskun's trophy to later reveal that Diskun is playable. I'm speaking figuratively, but knowing Sakurai's antics, that shouldn't be too far out of the realm of possible.

I'm just saying we shouldn't pronounce a character dead because they're probably dead. "___ is an assist trophy/stage hazard" text or an actual screenshot in-game, it shouldn't be hard to wait until we disconfirm someone through visual evidence. Disconfirmed status means factually proven, not what's implied.

Toad and Nintendog shouldn't even be under the morgue while Phantom should be disconfirmed outright if "Not coming with a character page = Dead" is going to be our main criteria, anyhow.

There's nothing implicit about them not receiving a character page. Sakurai clearly stated, when showing off the Skull Kid's assist trophy, that new fighters are those who are announced on the official website. By making this claim alongside something that would obviously cause question if not clarified, Sakurai implies that he will not show off a new character without also officially declaring them as a new character on the website. Your justification for labeling Saria as anything but disconfirmed lies solely on a "what if", which is saying that "he might change his mind and not announce them officially on the website." Well, the odds of that happening are probably smaller than the odds of Saria being a playable character, considering Sakurai has made a huge effort to prevent misinformation about his game. Though he likes to make subtle hints to tease his fans at times, this announcement was very clearly a way to show off trophies in the game as Sakurai didn't even make any sort of tease or suggestion about her being playable in his comment, nor is has she been officially announced on the website.

 

[RadRedi]

C'mon, everyone. I don't want to have to play Devil's Advocate, but you've forced my hand...

I know you all have been clamoring for Saria to be in the next Smash Bros. And I sympathize with this majority in the Smash Bros. community that dedicated their all to seeing her make it in. But it just wasn't meant to be. She's a trophy, and Sakurai wouldn't have it any other way.

Now let's all get on the bandwagon for Smashboards' next big thing: GURU GURU FOR SMASH 4!!!

 

[Arcadenik]

Wow.... people are actually in denial about Saria? Seriously? At least have Saria sit on Skull Kid's tombstone in that graveyard with Waddle Dee...

 

[RelaxAlax]

The trophy does indeed imply that she is not confirmed. She is not a fighter. Sakurai is a game developer before a troublemaker, and he wouldn't cause confusion unnecessarily. It's really a question about him as a whole that dictates trophies place as being disconfirmed. I see you're taking the logical approach, but here coherence beats out the correspondence theory. Although it does not 100% confirm she is unplayable, we can also make the claim that it is not 100% that Captain Falcon will be in, even though Sakurai hinted at him in an interview. It's a bit of logic, and a bit of rationale. Rationally, Saria is unconfirmed and this trophy is just an example Sakurai chose as the screenshot for any infinite amount of reasons. It could have been Bowser Jr. or Ridley, but as a trophy and not being announced to the same avail as other characters, i would say they strike out.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If you put Viridi in there as deconfirmed, you should put Sarai in there.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I never said Saria had a chance to being playable. People are making cases that anyone is in denial for Saria at this point? Ugh.

I just want to allude to the fact that saying "___ is disconfirmed because they're a trophy" just seems exaggerated in its rationale. All of our disconfirmed characters had a.) no character page and b.) shown proof that they are not playable. Condition B is not satisfied if we just look at "being shown as a trophy" as reason to consider them disconfirmed. However, my main issue is consistency. Saria can be considered dead if we treat her not as an exception for being a trophy. If the only condition to being disconfirmed is not having a character page, then the morgue should not even exist, period, on part of how Nintendog and Toad have also already satisfied Condition A.

So either keep Saria out of the graveyard or drag Toad and Nintendog with her. They are all the same in being characters shown without character pages. That should be all we need to group them the same if visual in-game proof is not going to be a factor here.