Social The Gates of Hell: Bayonetta Social Thread

[Ghidorah14]

Taunt to get bodied = the truest of combos.

 

[Ghidorah14]

LOOK AT THAT SDI. LOOK AT IT.

(this is pre-patch)

 

[ぱみゅ]

The people never knew.

 

[Masque]

The people never knew.

And our witch was forced to burn at the stake for their ignorance.

 

[wedl!!]

As much as ESAM has some dumbass opinions and is really biased towards Pikachu, he at least attempts to educate people.

The SDI video was too little, too late, unfortunately.

 

[Super FOG]

This is a crappy thought of mine, just posting by the lol.

People bashed Bayonetta because her gameplay goes against the defensive gameplay style of a bunch of characters in this game. People found mind boggling seeing their dodge and run gameplay being bashed by the witch queen of punishment. I love how Bayonetta's airs eats all kinds of dodging and stomps the gay game. It's so satisfactory to see her hits connecting against a boring opponent that only know the roll command. I had so much fun playing Bayonetta because rolling opponents now are struggling hard against her, and even post patch they're still struggling.

Speaking serious now, I had a hard time discussing Bayonetta a while ago because people in my region didn't wanted to ban her because of being unbalanced and such, it was always for a personal reason coming from a bunch of whiney haters or people that didn't knew her and never got over her winning the Ballot (even with the reasons about her win being obvious). I was happy because a character I liked joined the battle, people around me were not, so a lot of them directed their anger towards me and because of that I stopped discussing competitive Smash, I concluded thar I would have a better time just playing the game with the characters I like, Bayo combos were crazy hard (I only did the most basic one twice, in Trainning Mode), but because of people highlighting these things so much on Oddshot, people started to think they were easy and began to bash the character, after that, being a Bayonetta fan would mean nothing among these players because you are using a character they hate. I mean, I used to hate Rosalina because it took me one entire year to learn the matchup, I still hate a bit, but I wasn't out of control and I had the consent that was a thing of me.

 

[Hickz]

It's refreshing to see people stopped running offstage after seeing Bayo online. Some have even said GG post-match.

Playing safe seems to work even better against Bayo now in lag, but I'm still able to eke out the wins. Honestly, though, I have a much easier time when using a sword character like Marth or Cloud. I definitely disagree with ZeRo's placing of her at 12th. I'd say she's somewhere around 20. She has to rely too much on my opponent playing badly to get "combos" and to KO.

 

[Dre89]

The problem with Bayo was that she could spam dABK in neutral and have it be completely safe on shield whilst yielding massive reward. This was ontop of a top tier disadvantaged state (which is still top tier).

This made her risk-reward way too good ontop of not needing to mix up her options to the extent that other characters do.

It doesn't matter if you could SDI her stuff. Her design still needed tweaks because fishing for cookie-cutter combos out of dABK was always the best option. Now Bayos have to mix up their options like everyone else.

 

[CyberZixx]

I agree. it is why i found bayo boring before because she never even felt like she was playing the same game. Which was a shame because i was super hype for Bayo. Now that she got nerfed and is actually forced to play the game I decided to main her and find her so fun to watch/play.

 

[Ghidorah14]

It's finally finished; my bayo 1.1.6 montage. As I say in the description, it's more for me to express my love for bayonetta than anything else, but hopefully you guys will still find it entertaining.

 

[AnchorTea]

I always found this scene incredibly funny from Bayonetta. (Im gonna be sad if the gif doesnt load properly)

 

[Silvera]

I always found this scene incredibly funny from Bayonetta. (Im gonna be sad if the gif doesnt load properly)
View attachment 111174

It did. You can stop crying now Bayo.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Hi everyone, this is my first time postong here, but I've played a lot with Bayonetta in those months. Also I've finished Bayo1 and I'm playing Bayo2 right now, and I'm loving them!

But I wanted to ask you something. Is Bayonetta partially owned by Nintendo? I've tried to do some research online, but I couldn't find a real answer. Some claims the whole IP is Sega's, while others says that Nintendo owns a little part of it, like Pokemon or Fatal Frame.

 

[Megadoomer]

Hi everyone, this is my first time postong here, but I've played a lot with Bayonetta in those months. Also I've finished Bayo1 and I'm playing Bayo2 right now, and I'm loving them!

But I wanted to ask you something. Is Bayonetta partially owned by Nintendo? I've tried to do some research online, but I couldn't find a real answer. Some claims the whole IP is Sega's, while others says that Nintendo owns a little part of it, like Pokemon or Fatal Frame.

I know it's definitely owned by Sega; they're still credited for Bayonetta 2, even though they didn't publish or develop it. Nintendo published the second game, but I don't believe that changes the ownership in any way.

 

[Fenny]

It's refreshing to see people stopped running offstage after seeing Bayo online. Some have even said GG post-match.

Playing safe seems to work even better against Bayo now in lag, but I'm still able to eke out the wins. Honestly, though, I have a much easier time when using a sword character like Marth or Cloud. I definitely disagree with ZeRo's placing of her at 12th. I'd say she's somewhere around 20. She has to rely too much on my opponent playing badly to get "combos" and to KO.

Nah, I'd say she's definitely top 15. Witch Time in the right hands can still take an enemy from 0% to 70% if you know what to chain together, which is something I don't think anyone below top 15 should have access to tbh

 

[Greda]

And our witch was forced to burn at the stake for their ignorance.

There is still something that strikes me about 1.1.6 and how they made a combo character then deliberately removed them later.

 

[Masque]

There is still something that strikes me about 1.1.6 and how they made a combo character then deliberately removed them later.

False advertising.
(She's still got combos, but they're now based on your ability to make reads, follow the opponent's DI, and utilize all the tools in your kit.)

 

[Ghidorah14]

Meanwhile, ryu can still abuse uptilt jank.

I dont care to remember the name of the ryu player pink fresh played, but MAN, he was just fishing for those uptilts.

 

[AnchorTea]

False advertising.
(She's still got combos, but they're now based on your ability to make reads, follow the opponent's DI, and utilize all the tools in your kit.)

Maybe Bayonetta mains aren't try-hard skrebs after all...

 

[Ghidorah14]

Maybe Bayonetta mains aren't try-hard skrebs after all...

You must be thinking of cloud mains.

 

[Greda]

False advertising.
(She's still got combos, but they're now based on your ability to make reads, follow the opponent's DI, and utilize all the tools in your kit.)

For a balance patch that was made to help players on an intermediate level fight her, they sure gimped their ability to play as her.

 

[Masque]

For a balance patch that was made to help players on an intermediate level fight her, they sure gimped their ability to play as her.

At the same time, it's all the more satisfying to win with her because each bout is a test of your skill as a player.

 

[AnchorTea]

I expected the Bayonetta social to be chaotic as the Zelda social, but it's all serious and uber-professional. I want my momey back.

 

[Burgundy]

I expected the Bayonetta social to be chaotic as the Zelda social, but it's all serious and uber-professional. I want my momey back.

Unfortunately Bayo's social isn't nearly as active
Probably because of discord

 

[ぱみゅ]

Zelda's social is basically everybody's social anyway.

 

[BJN39]

We should just raid this thread tbqh

 

[Lorde]

This thread is so dead it'd be like raiding a cemetery

 

[C0rvus]

https://twitter.com/Mr_RSmash/status/753514094469140480

Thoughts? Idk it's dead in here, figured some good vibes would lighten things up

 

[AnchorTea]

Why are you guys raiding us D:

 

[Ulk]

There is still something that strikes me about 1.1.6 and how they made a combo character then deliberately removed them later.

They should have seen it coming. Combo fighters are very often overwhelming in Smash, so creating the best combo fighter couldn't have gone well. And of course a patch to a concept that was doomed to go wrong couldn't have gone too well either. She now really doesn't feel like the character they advertised anymore. And giving her that moveset was just a big mistake in the first place if you ask me. She's still viable, yes. But she now feels like a patchwork of badly developed moves mixed together.
However the attempt to balance her out when she was released was definitely there, it just didn't succeed. They failed to realize that no amount of disadvantages would have been able to make up for a combo potential this high. Her disadvantages far outclassed her advantages in quantity, but were absolutely demolished by the quality of her best advantage - her almost flawless combo potential. I mean if I think about all the disadvantages she had, or rather has since she hasn't received any buffs, I can think of:

Lightweight
Extremely bad frame data (neutrals + smash attacks)
Increased ending lag for combos
Extremely bad grab game (slow and short range)
Very bad throws (little to no combo potential / kill potential)
Very bad kill power for safe moves
Extremely unsafe moves with good kill power
Staling counter
Counter can be canceled through multi-hitboxes
Counter increases Bayonetta’s footstool lag and opponent’s dodge duration
Deflecting smash attacks
Very bad dodge game
Bad dash speed
Unsafe projectile game
Very bad approach game
Extremely low shield damage

Her current problem now, after the patches, is that her combo potential is far from flawless now. Don't get me wrong, it's still very good. But with the bad start-up frame data, the ability to easily get out of most her combos and low amount of actual true combos she has, the arguably most vital combo move being almost entirely erased of its potential (DABK), I don't see how her combo potential can rival that of characters like Sheik or Diddy Kong. Yet all those disadvantages do not just still rest on her shoulders, but some of them have been even worsened. She used to be an unorthodox combo fighter in the sense that her combo potential was unrivaled, and so were the conseqences she had for it. Now she's unorthodox in the sense that her combo potential is in fact of a lower caliber compared to that of other viable combo fighters, yet she carries far more and far more severe disadvantages than any of them for her inferior combo potential. This is the big flaw I see with 1.1.6. The patch damaged the core of her concept. But it's not necessarily the patch that was flawed (although it could have been handled a lot better if you ask me), but her concept which was simply broken to begin with.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Honestly, Dtilt alone pretty much makes up for everything else. Great range, comes out as fast as others Dtilts, pretty safe, combo starter, kill confirm, etc.

Also, idk if this thread was raided or not, but the message will remain the same

 

[Altais]

Honestly, I don't understand why people dislike Bayonetta so much. Personality-wise, she is a very complex, classy, and respectable character. After all the hell she went through--both as a child and an adult--and how far she climbed when nobody else lifted a finger to help her, I'd say she's well entitled to her sass.

 

[Rynozilla]

Spoiler: THE UMBRA NEVER FAIL.

Gonna platinum all of 2nd Climax
Wish me luck ;w;

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Streaming right now with some Bayonetta Smash 4 action!

twitch.tv/aerolinksm

 

[TheColorfulOrca]

They should have seen it coming. Combo fighters are very often overwhelming in Smash, so creating the best combo fighter couldn't have gone well. And of course a patch to a concept that was doomed to go wrong couldn't have gone too well either. She now really doesn't feel like the character they advertised anymore. And giving her that moveset was just a big mistake in the first place if you ask me. She's still viable, yes. But she now feels like a patchwork of badly developed moves mixed together.
However the attempt to balance her out when she was released was definitely there, it just didn't succeed. They failed to realize that no amount of disadvantages would have been able to make up for a combo potential this high. Her disadvantages far outclassed her advantages in quantity, but were absolutely demolished by the quality of her best advantage - her almost flawless combo potential. I mean if I think about all the disadvantages she had, or rather has since she hasn't received any buffs, I can think of:

Lightweight
Extremely bad frame data (neutrals + smash attacks)
Increased ending lag for combos
Extremely bad grab game (slow and short range)
Very bad throws (little to no combo potential / kill potential)
Very bad kill power for safe moves
Extremely unsafe moves with good kill power
Staling counter
Counter can be canceled through multi-hitboxes
Counter increases Bayonetta’s footstool lag and opponent’s dodge duration
Deflecting smash attacks
Very bad dodge game
Bad dash speed
Unsafe projectile game
Very bad approach game
Extremely low shield damage

Her current problem now, after the patches, is that her combo potential is far from flawless now. Don't get me wrong, it's still very good. But with the bad start-up frame data, the ability to easily get out of most her combos and low amount of actual true combos she has, the arguably most vital combo move being almost entirely erased of its potential (DABK), I don't see how her combo potential can rival that of characters like Sheik or Diddy Kong. Yet all those disadvantages do not just still rest on her shoulders, but some of them have been even worsened. She used to be an unorthodox combo fighter in the sense that her combo potential was unrivaled, and so were the conseqences she had for it. Now she's unorthodox in the sense that her combo potential is in fact of a lower caliber compared to that of other viable combo fighters, yet she carries far more and far more severe disadvantages than any of them for her inferior combo potential. This is the big flaw I see with 1.1.6. The patch damaged the core of her concept. But it's not necessarily the patch that was flawed (although it could have been handled a lot better if you ask me), but her concept which was simply broken to begin with.

While most of this is true, we have to remember to look on the bright side. Bayo may have been nerfed, but she's far from the worst character. She still contains a lot of good qualities. Just because she was nerfed doesn't mean she's unusable. I think everybody agrees that the 1.1.6 patch could have been handled better, but we need to learn to make the most of what we have, and not complain about what we are missing.

We need to keep in mind that while it is much easier to SDI out of her longer combos, getting it right every single time in a dynamic intense match is easier said than done, especially if the Bayonetta player uses different combos. Bayonetta still has a ton of combos, but we need to take the time to use more than just the same few that we previously were. Mixing up our options is important, more so now than ever.

We also need to remember that Bayonetta is still less than 6 months old! She still has lots of untapped potential. No character's metagame was completely developed 6 months into the game's life. As time goes on, us Bayonetta players will find ways around her weaknesses, just like all other characters have done. Some top players have already done that, and have done terrifically. Pink Fresh recently won KTAR SAGA and beat top tier players like Marss and Mr. R with just Bayonetta, showing that she is still a force to be reckoned with.

It's understandable to be upset about something like this. I know I definitely was, for the first few days after the patch was released. But the time for complaining is over. I've seen people complaining another the nerfs long after the patch was released, on multiple different threads. Each time I see one, I want to tell them what I've said here, and show them that there is still lots of potential in this character. We just need to put in the time and effort to unlock it.

The message I'm trying to say is this: complaining is not going to help anyone learn how to play Bayonetta. She is still a good character. She still has potential. So, we need to stop complaining and start working to push her metagame forward. The things I've said I want everyone who is still complaining about her nerfs to hear. She may not quite feel like the character they advertised, but it's what we've got.

 

[Ulk]

While most of this is true, we have to remember to look on the bright side. Bayo may have been nerfed, but she's far from the worst character. She still contains a lot of good qualities. Just because she was nerfed doesn't mean she's unusable. I think everybody agrees that the 1.1.6 patch could have been handled better, but we need to learn to make the most of what we have, and not complain about what we are missing.

We need to keep in mind that while it is much easier to SDI out of her longer combos, getting it right every single time in a dynamic intense match is easier said than done, especially if the Bayonetta player uses different combos. Bayonetta still has a ton of combos, but we need to take the time to use more than just the same few that we previously were. Mixing up our options is important, more so now than ever.

We also need to remember that Bayonetta is still less than 6 months old! She still has lots of untapped potential. No character's metagame was completely developed 6 months into the game's life. As time goes on, us Bayonetta players will find ways around her weaknesses, just like all other characters have done. Some top players have already done that, and have done terrifically. Pink Fresh recently won KTAR SAGA and beat top tier players like Marss and Mr. R with just Bayonetta, showing that she is still a force to be reckoned with.

It's understandable to be upset about something like this. I know I definitely was, for the first few days after the patch was released. But the time for complaining is over. I've seen people complaining another the nerfs long after the patch was released, on multiple different threads. Each time I see one, I want to tell them what I've said here, and show them that there is still lots of potential in this character. We just need to put in the time and effort to unlock it.

The message I'm trying to say is this: complaining is not going to help anyone learn how to play Bayonetta. She is still a good character. She still has potential. So, we need to stop complaining and start working to push her metagame forward. The things I've said I want everyone who is still complaining about her nerfs to hear. She may not quite feel like the character they advertised, but it's what we've got.

That's nothing to be written off as a complaint or refusal to adapt to the changes. It's criticism towards a concept that was fundamentally flawed and doomed to fail. It's what we've got and it's what we adjust to, nothing new to any of us and no one ever doubted that. Doesn't mean criticism against how badly she was developed should remain unspoken, especially since Bayonetta was a character that was way too obviously going to be broken upon implementation. It's also a lot less about how good she is too. As I said, of course she's still very good. But that's not even half the rent. Actually remaining to be the character they advertised and released is a factor too. As well as being actually fun to play as, which, for some people like me, stands far above viability. Personally, I'd much rather have her being a bad character than one that is simply not really fun to play as anymore. And her concept is one I do not see being fun personally. Knowing that she's simply inferior to other combo fighters by now but still has far more disadvantages than any of them, most of which severely intervene with her being a capable aggressive combo fighter to begin with, is simply frustrating.

 

[TheColorfulOrca]

That's nothing to be written off as a complaint or refusal to adapt to the changes. It's criticism towards a concept that was fundamentally flawed and doomed to fail. It's what we've got and it's what we adjust to, nothing new to any of us and no one ever doubted that. Doesn't mean criticism against how badly she was developed should remain unspoken, especially since Bayonetta was a character that was way too obviously going to be broken upon implementation. It's also a lot less about how good she is too. As I said, of course she's still very good. But that's not even half the rent. Actually remaining to be the character they advertised and released is a factor too. As well as being actually fun to play as, which, for some people like me, stands far above viability. Personally, I'd much rather have her being a bad character than one that is simply not really fun to play as anymore. And her concept is one I do not see being fun personally. Knowing that she's simply inferior to other combo fighters by now but still has far more disadvantages than any of them, most of which severely intervene with her being a capable aggressive combo fighter to begin with, is simply frustrating.

I understand your reasoning. My message was aimed at everyone who is still complaining about the nerfs. My apologies for including you in that group. I have seen other people, both here on Smashboards and in real life that have still been whining, and I wanted people to see that they need to stop. Hopefully, since this thread is one of the more popular threads in the Bayonetta sub-forum, more people will see the message.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Say, do any of you guys get any flak for taunting with bayo? I know people in general complain about taunting (me being one of them), but I'm talking bayo specifically. I've had a few people on my youtube videos tell me that me taunting is "cringey," or that I shouldnt taunt because I didnt "earn it."

Um, excuse me, I'm playing bayonetta. Taunting is part of who she is, not like falcon, sonic, or shulk who do it because of memes.

 

[Fenny]

Say, do any of you guys get any flak for taunting with bayo? I know people in general complain about taunting (me being one of them), but I'm talking bayo specifically. I've had a few people on my youtube videos tell me that me taunting is "cringey," or that I shouldnt taunt because I didnt "earn it."

Um, excuse me, I'm playing bayonetta. Taunting is part of who she is, not like falcon, sonic, or shulk who do it because of memes.

Salt lords, all of them.

I don't actually taunt much as Bayo though tbh, even after great kills. It comes in handy as a bait to Witch Time tho lmao

 

[TheColorfulOrca]

You know, I'll have to try that. But with Bayo, I don't actually taunt. I either crouch, or walk slowly. I find it even more salt-inducing...