Social The Gates of Hell: Bayonetta Social Thread

[Cutie Gwen]

*ZeRo talk*
When Nairo broke his winstreak with Zamus, his next video was 'Should Zamus be banned at tournaments?'

 

[Volga]

now that you guys mention it,how does Bayo matchup against Sheik? i've yet to fight one with Bayo to figure it out.

 

[Kurri ★]

Well of course he's not impressed.

She isnt sheik.

Eh, I wouldn't say that. He did claim Ryu could be top tier when he was released. Maybe I shouldn't say this because I'm well under his skill level, but I just feel he doesn't understand the character.

Maybe it's just lack of MU knowledge, but last night we saw NinjaLink plow trough losers and almost beat ANTi. Soon we'll see @AeroLink_the_SoulMaster show off his Bayo at shockwave. And Nairo wants to pull out his at his next tournament.

 

[Volga]

Eh, I wouldn't say that. He did claim Ryu could be top tier when he was released. Maybe I shouldn't say this because I'm well under his skill level, but I just feel he doesn't understand the character.

Maybe it's just lack of MU knowledge, but last night we saw NinjaLink plow trough losers and almost beat ANTi. Soon we'll see @AeroLink_the_SoulMaster show off his Bayo at shockwave. And Nairo wants to pull out his at his next tournament.

THE YEAR OF THE UMBRA WITCH IS UPON US!
I can't wait to see all that footage.

 

[Skyfox2000]

So, I seem to have a bit of trouble following up with a second Witch Twist in the air after I combo. Any tips for me? Any help would be deeply appreciated.

I'm honestly surprised that ZeRo doesn't like Bayonetta I figured for sure that he would pick her up. I hope someone picks her up.

 

[Volga]

So, I seem to have a bit of trouble following up with a second Witch Twist in the air after I combo. Any tips for me? Any help would be deeply appreciated.

I'm honestly surprised that ZeRo doesn't like Bayonetta I figured for sure that he would pick her up. I hope someone picks her up.

There's a jump you need to do before the 2nd Witch Twist.
the timing is strict on it. unless there's a way to cancel the jump into it quicker.

 

[SnareTheToxic]

I'll compile all of what I've learned about Bayonetta so far.

I've been doing a lot of experimenting with what Bayonetta is capable of, and I can easily say she's not too difficult to use effectively.

In her home game, you're rewarded for the amount of combos you perform, as well as for minimizing your own damage. This is reflected by her playstyle in smash. She's a weird mix of rushdown and keep away, and I believe mastering her requires mastering the parts of her skill set that require the most finesse.

A notable example is Bat Within. Not Witch Time, Bat Within.

I cannot begin to describe how useful that ability is, because Bayonettas roll is awful. Yes you still take damage, but you can generally place yourself in a more advantageous position than when you'd normally roll. It's easiest to do against a projectile; run towards it, and immediately short hop and air dodge as you make contact, place yourself in the air, and follow up with an afterburner kick, because so far it has tripped up everyone I've used that on. Works best on rapid projectiles, much like her own neutral B, and when someone is attempting to spike you. The latter is obviously more dangerous and could cost you a stock, but it also might save you one.

Speaking of Bayonettas gunfire, I noticed that Witch Time does not trigger on projectiles, but it does trigger if another Bayo is firing the guns from an extended attack (the ones with no hitstun or knock back).

There's also many combo options in the air depending on the weight of the opponent and how they DI. Sometimes I can pull off Side B on the ground, up B, side B, bair, side b, bair. Then other times I cannot even hit the first side b.

Extending your nair and uair are great for catching air dodges, and very good for gimping recovery. Just jump off the ledge and uair. The hit boxes are big enough and last long enough to eventually connect with an unsuspecting opponent. You can also mix up with her fair on the ground if you short hop close enough. Even if they shield, you can continue the string of attacks and place yourself behind (or in front of depending on where they're facing) your opponent.

Also, be very aware of the increased ending lag after doing a lot of aerial combos. It is tempting to want to stay on the opponent after a combo, but landing beside them is ill advised, because you will be punished due to the lag.

Her biggest flaw is her lack of killing power. Yes her smash attacks are strong, and it's tempting to be careless and throw them out on the chance the opponent will walk into it (which has happened a lot), but as I'm playing, she really relies on spikes, gimping, and Witch Time to get her kills. If another player is playing defensively, it can be very difficult to land a killing blow, or even get a grab due to how short her grab range is.

In terms of those smash attacks, they basically have no priority. They'll cancel out a lot of moves, but all an opponent really has to do to avoid being hit is to throw out a smash or tilt of their own and they won't be hit by the attack whatsoever. And even then, they're on the weaker side. I assume this is to compensate for how vulnerable WT leaves the enemy. Since this is the case, only use them when you know they will land. Baiting the opponent by running away and doing a quick pivot smash has netted me a few kills.

These drawbacks are somewhat made up by having the best spikes and the second best counter in the game. Her dair being the best. The heel retains the meteor spike during the entire animation, and people generally don't expect you to jump off the stage and instantly drag them to their graves while they're already below the stage. It is generally safe as well, so long as you don't double jump before using Witch Twist.

I called Witch Time second best because it is so very easy to whiff it completely. If the opponent is too high in the air for a smash attack, you've basically wasted your WT and would have been better off using Bat Within to place yourself somewhere else, because even bair takes a high percentage to kill with. I also can't even tell all of you how many times I've meant to do a smash attack only to throw out my tilt and have WT end.

All in all, there's still a lot to Bayonetta that we've not yet discovered, but hopefully this helps anyone trying to make her a viable option.

 

[CrimsonRick117]

That song got me through military training lol

If you don't mind me asking..what branch in the military are you in?

 

[Deleted member]

NAKAT said he was gonna start using Bayonetta in one of his YouTube videos, I wonder what he'll do with her.

 

[BlueX]

It will be definitely exciting to see Bayonetta played more in tournaments and see the results. She is a really fun character to play and has really great combos too.

 

[Ghidorah14]

She's a weird mix of rushdown and keep away, and I believe mastering her requires mastering the parts of her skill set that require the most finesse.

Bayonetta cant rushdown. She doesnt have the frame data to do it.

A notable example is Bat Within. Not Witch Time, Bat Within.

I cannot begin to describe how useful that ability is, because Bayonettas roll is awful. Yes you still take damage, but you can generally place yourself in a more advantageous position than when you'd normally roll. It's easiest to do against a projectile; run towards it, and immediately short hop and air dodge as you make contact, place yourself in the air, and follow up with an afterburner kick, because so far it has tripped up everyone I've used that on. Works best on rapid projectiles, much like her own neutral B

Alternatively, you could just jump over the projectile, avoid all damage, and divekick.

Speaking of Bayonettas gunfire, I noticed that Witch Time does not trigger on projectiles, but it does trigger if another Bayo is firing the guns from an extended attack (the ones with no hitstun or knock back).

Witch time works on projectiles. It slows them down and lets you avoid damage (unless it's a multi-hitting move), but doesnt stop the opponent if they're too far away.

Her biggest flaw is her lack of killing power. Yes her smash attacks are strong, and it's tempting to be careless and throw them out on the chance the opponent will walk into it (which has happened a lot),

Throwing out slow smash attacks with massive endlag is tempting? No, not really.

In terms of those smash attacks, they basically have no priority. They'll cancel out a lot of moves, but all an opponent really has to do to avoid being hit is to throw out a smash or tilt of their own and they won't be hit by the attack whatsoever. And even then, they're on the weaker side. I assume this is to compensate for how vulnerable WT leaves the enemy.

Her up and forward smashes are actually pretty strong. Most characters die around 100% to an uncharged smash.

I called Witch Time second best because it is so very easy to whiff it completely. If the opponent is too high in the air for a smash attack, you've basically wasted your WT and would have been better off using Bat Within to place yourself somewhere else

You dont need to land a smash to kill. if they're that high in the air, upair/upB them.

 

[Skyfox2000]

All I've seen on YouTube lately is...
OMG GUYS!!!! 0 - DEATH COMBO DISCOVERED!!

I'm waiting for some good Bayonetta guides to come out for I can learn some things from. My Smash Corner helps me alot..

 

[ぱみゅ]

I absolutely despised Smashville as Bae, the platform gets in the way and the Balloon messes the combos.
Ban that janky stage.

 

[Volga]

I absolutely despised Smashville as Bae, the platform gets in the way and the Balloon messes the combos.
Ban that janky stage.

So stages that mess with her stylish combos aren't too good huh? gotcha.

 

[Big-Cat]

All I've seen on YouTube lately is...
OMG GUYS!!!! 0 - DEATH COMBO DISCOVERED!!

I'm waiting for some good Bayonetta guides to come out for I can learn some things from. My Smash Corner helps me alot..

I think what we're going to see as things settle down is three types of combos: damage racking, killing, and reset. These zero to death ones are due to not being fully familiar with DI. In a way, they're reset combos done consecutively.

 

[Lochy]

I was actually planning on making a proper bayonetta guide with tech, how to play the neutral, footsies, follow ups and Match Up description for every character.
But atm there is no Bayonetta section for character guides. But when they open it up I will get on that right away.

 

[Volga]

http://www.twitch.tv/NinjaLink
The man's streaming right now. I don't have the best internet in the world today,so maybe some of y'all can enjoy this instead.

 

[ぱみゅ]

So stages that mess with her stylish combos aren't too good huh? gotcha.

It isn't even for the style, the most simplistic ABK1>ABK2 is ruined by the Balloon

 

[Volga]

It isn't even for the style, the most simplistic ABK1>ABK2 is ruined by the Balloon

Thats gonna bite me in the butt later. CURSE YOU VILLAGER!

 

[Ffamran]

NAKAT said he was gonna start using Bayonetta in one of his YouTube videos, I wonder what he'll do with her.

Goddammit... Please, drop a character, NAKAT... If he doesn't, he's going to end up with 4 characters: Bayonetta, Fox, Ness, and Pikachu. Of those characters, in my opinion, Fox is the least demanding followed by Ness since in some MUs, Ness can struggle hard unlike Fox. I can't comment on Bayonetta, but considering she's new and she's different like how people would say Peach and Ryu are different, then he has 2 technically demanding characters: Bayonetta and Pikachu. Can he be the best player? Yes. Can he be the best using 4 different characters? Yes, but using 4 and 2 of them being technically demanding... I think he's going to spread himself thin.

Also, on the flipside, FOW's picking up Corrin for Rosalina & Luma replacing Falco for the purpose. First off, HALLELUJAH! Falco struggles against Rosalina even worse than Ness. On-stage and off-stage, Falco gets wrecked by her while Ness at least does well on-stage. Why he picked Falco over Lucas and Villager or even just gritting his teeth with Ness is beyond me. Picking Falco for Rosalina & Luma is like picking Ganondorf for the Ice Climbers in Brawl because you didn't like fighting them with... Fox or something.

 

[Volga]

Don't use this character,she's terrible.

 

[Kurri ★]

Don't use this character,she's terrible.

I'm not sure I'm mad because of the beginning or mad that I got mad at the beginning

 

[Silvera]

Don't use this character,she's terrible.

Looks like someone sounds a little salty.

 

[Volga]

I'm not sure I'm mad because of the beginning or mad that I got mad at the beginning

Its ok. I wonder how many people aren't going to watch the whole video and cut out after the first minute or so.

 

[Lochy]

Its ok. I wonder how many people aren't going to watch the whole video and cut out after the first minute or so.

I watched the whole video.

 

[Devil May Plop]

I haven't watched it yet, I'll check it later.

 

[Greda]

Don't use this character,she's terrible.

....how did he do that double Witch Twist so fast and without his opponent escaping it?

 

[Volga]

....how did he do that double Witch Twist so fast and without his opponent escaping it?

He had to have hit the jump button mad quick for that to come out that quick. I've pulled it off once and can't replicate it. having my Pro Controller Jump Button mapped to X probably isn't helping that.

 

[Otterz]

....how did he do that double Witch Twist so fast and without his opponent escaping it?

WT1>DJ>WT2

It is a 4 frame input however. With practice its not hard to do consistently.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Props to GIMR for the top-notch click bait and a video that ended up not being informative at all.

 

[Greda]

WT1>DJ>WT2

It is a 4 frame input however. With practice its not hard to do consistently.

I'm aware of the double jump, but doing it THAT fast?

Dang.

 

[Volga]

Props to GIMR for the top-notch click bait and a video that ended up not being informative at all.

He did mention in the comments that he's working on it. Maybe next time.

 

[SnareTheToxic]

Bayonetta cant rushdown. She doesnt have the frame data to do it.


Alternatively, you could just jump over the projectile, avoid all damage, and divekick.



Witch time works on projectiles. It slows them down and lets you avoid damage (unless it's a multi-hitting move), but doesnt stop the opponent if they're too far away.



Throwing out slow smash attacks with massive endlag is tempting? No, not really.



Her up and forward smashes are actually pretty strong. Most characters die around 100% to an uncharged smash.



You dont need to land a smash to kill. if they're that high in the air, upair/upB them.

I've played aggressively with Bayo and succeeded several times. It doesn't work on all characters, obviously.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but it feels like Bat Within covers more distance than a roll or short hop. Plus you'd have to be hella close to both the opponent and the projectile to pull it off without telegraphing what you're doing as obviously. I mean really, I feel 3% from Fox's blaster is worth an advantageous position you wouldn't otherwise gain so quickly. Personal preference, perhaps, but this mechanic wouldn't have been added if it couldn't be used strategically.

You missed my point. Witch Time doesn't slow the opponent if you counter their projectile (no matter the range), yes, that was essentially what I said. However, if you extend, lets say down tilt, and the opponent uses WT while being hit by the bullets, you will be rendered vulnerable by the opponents WT.

Are you telling me baiting the opponent into a giant arm of hitboxes is not tempting? Kills with her smash attacks feel satisfying.

Up Smash has been stopped by quite a few uairs and forward smash has been beaten by jabs.

I'm talking halfway to the blast line. Too high for up smash, too low for uair to kill unless they're already ohko.

 

[Saykrd]

WT1>DJ>WT2

It is a 4 frame input however. With practice its not hard to do consistently.

Is it really 4 frames? It seems more lenient than that to me. It's definitely easier to land at low %, and it helps if you b-reverse WT so that they start behind you and get knocked into the second one.

It seems to stop working at like 70%+ on midweights tho, or maybe I'm just bad.

...But yeah, guys. For real. WT to WT is hella stupid and hella easy to do. I don't know if my opponents DI is just super bad, but I've been landing dABK-dABK-WT-WT really consistently on people. I'm kinda scared it'll get patched @_@

 

[NinjaLink]

is there a bayo skype group that i dont know about? lol I dont use discord

 

[deepseadiva]

Alternatively, you could just jump over the projectile, avoid all damage, and divekick.

Actually I wonder if he might be on to something with abusing Bat Within.

Interesting thoughts SnareTheToxic and very well considered analysis.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Is it really 4 frames? It seems more lenient than that to me. It's definitely easier to land at low %, and it helps if you b-reverse WT so that they start behind you and get knocked into the second one.

It seems to stop working at like 70%+ on midweights tho, or maybe I'm just bad.

...But yeah, guys. For real. WT to WT is hella stupid and hella easy to do. I don't know if my opponents DI is just super bad, but I've been landing dABK-dABK-WT-WT really consistently on people. I'm kinda scared it'll get patched @_@

I think if you check the Bayo combo WIP thread there's a post that explains how to DI out of it after rigorous testing.

I hate training mode cause the amount of misconceptions it creates is....really crazy. Bayo kills bad DI like, straight up.

 

[Big-Cat]

is there a bayo skype group that i dont know about? lol I dont use discord

Discord is better.

 

[NinjaLink]

Discord is better.

Subjective lol I need it for video chat

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

<3

Spoiler: warning: moe