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Social The Ganonic Grimoire - Kongregation of Kings

Koskinator

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,602
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Kelowna, BC Canada
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Well I finished 9th in singles out of 64 and came in 5th in doubles, my partner was a falcon who actually was at the event to play melee haha. I dropped one set in pools to 2manycooks' DK and the other set I dropped was to Kuraudos Sonic. Unfortunately I think only top 8 was recorded so there is no footage :( I feel I could have done better though, I play too much wifi lol. Spent the days leading up to the tourney trying to adjust to a gamecube controller because I use a gamepad at home, didn't spend nearly enough of that time adjusting to offline play, a lot of missed inputs due to being used to things coming out a 1/3 of a second later. No johns though, gotta practice more for next time.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I don't know what moves Ganondorf has hit lag modifiers on exactly outside of probably Dair, but I wished a patch had changed it so all appropriate moves have at least, say, a hit lag modifier of 1.3. Why? It wouldn't do anything really for him outside of maybe making it possible for him to frame sync with Fair, but it would be neat to have that little extra pause to add to the suspense when he hits you. Visual buffs, basically. Imagine if you used Ftilt and when it connects, there's this slight pause before... BOOM! and they get send flying instead of just hit and fly.
 

_Magus_

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
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1,022
Location
The Shadow Realm
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DeadlyTaco
3DS FC
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I don't know what moves Ganondorf has hit lag modifiers on exactly outside of probably Dair, but I wished a patch had changed it so all appropriate moves have at least, say, a hit lag modifier of 1.3. Why? It wouldn't do anything really for him outside of maybe making it possible for him to frame sync with Fair, but it would be neat to have that little extra pause to add to the suspense when he hits you. Visual buffs, basically. Imagine if you used Ftilt and when it connects, there's this slight pause before... BOOM! and they get send flying instead of just hit and fly.
That sounds awesome visually. However it would give opponents more visual cue to DI, and it would make Ganondorf worse overall in free for alls, where he is indisputably King.

Recently I've discovered the free quality entertainment that is lurking on Gamefaqs. The mods and the users there are so bad that you can't help but laugh.
 
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adom4

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
1,066
Location
Israel
NNID
adom15510
3DS FC
3179-6434-6692
Made it to top 64 bracket from 2nd place at beast 6!
Lost to izaw 2-1 and 2-0'd the rest, probably gonna go up against j miller.
 
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LifeMushroom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
84
NNID
LifeMushroom1
Have fun adom.
I won a tourney at my school with Ganondorf and it was against another Ganon yesterday. Fun.
 

TheMiSP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
203
Location
San Diego, CA
Slippi.gg
MISP#673
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Collin9476
3DS FC
1564-3898-1072
Switch FC
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Good. On SmashGG I see adom in the top 64 bracket.
 

mgleed

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
154
Location
Glendale, AZ
NNID
mgleed
I think this is known already, but here's a friendly reminder that attempting to tech when all else appears lost might get you out of sticky situations. More inexcusable behavior by Koskinator Koskinator ...
 
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Opana

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
1,676
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NY
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PINKYz
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Before watching I'm gonna guess kosk teched the sourspot of your dair lol

Edit wow that was cool lol
 
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Vermanubis

King of Evil
BRoomer
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Jun 12, 2008
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La Grande, Oregon
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Vermanubis
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My girlfriend surprise bought a WiiU, so...

I need not state the obvious. I'll let everyone know when I'm available for matches.
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Question: would Ganondorf benefit from a jab and Ftilt that moves him forward like Heihachi's Iron Hand and Guile and Charlie's Step Kick, respectively? Ganondorf's slow, but if he had some moves that moved him forward during them, it would be helpful for him to poke and close the distance without just strictly giving him ground or air speed that's ridiculous... Then again, his Melee run speed of 1.35 isn't that fast and probably wouldn't murder everyone in Smash 4, but at least it's not Brawl's 1.16. Ironically, even with his Brawl run speed, Ganondorf's still faster than Robin's 1.15. Air speed on the other hand... 0.78 in Melee, 0.846 in Brawl, and 0.79 in Smash 4. Question: with Ganondorf's low jump and low air acceleration, if he had almost below-average air speed like in Brawl, would he be that terrifying or that better? I'd say no; it'd just be a quality of life buff.
 

SaltyKracka

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
San Diego, CA
Question: would Ganondorf benefit from a jab and Ftilt that moves him forward like Heihachi's Iron Hand and Guile and Charlie's Step Kick, respectively? Ganondorf's slow, but if he had some moves that moved him forward during them, it would be helpful for him to poke and close the distance without just strictly giving him ground or air speed that's ridiculous... Then again, his Melee run speed of 1.35 isn't that fast and probably wouldn't murder everyone in Smash 4, but at least it's not Brawl's 1.16. Ironically, even with his Brawl run speed, Ganondorf's still faster than Robin's 1.15. Air speed on the other hand... 0.78 in Melee, 0.846 in Brawl, and 0.79 in Smash 4. Question: with Ganondorf's low jump and low air acceleration, if he had almost below-average air speed like in Brawl, would he be that terrifying or that better? I'd say no; it'd just be a quality of life buff.
I'mo separate these into the two separate questions they are.

For the first, I'd say no. Ganon had something like that in Brawl, namely his stutter step Fsmash. It was a useful tool, but mostly because it moved him so much that it basically extended his range and made for a great bait tool. In 4? This theoretical move wouldn't be an approach tool because Ganon is slow and still has to actually reach the proper range to throw it out, would actually be a detriment on shield unless you gave it incredibly decreased endlag, and still wouldn't help him with his woes with projectiles.

For the second? Dear lord, without absolute **** for airspeed, Ganondorf not only might be able to recover better, he might actually be able to avoid being a victim of every single juggle in the game.

Plus, y'know, it would help his neutral game.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I'mo separate these into the two separate questions they are.

For the first, I'd say no. Ganon had something like that in Brawl, namely his stutter step Fsmash. It was a useful tool, but mostly because it moved him so much that it basically extended his range and made for a great bait tool. In 4? This theoretical move wouldn't be an approach tool because Ganon is slow and still has to actually reach the proper range to throw it out, would actually be a detriment on shield unless you gave it incredibly decreased endlag, and still wouldn't help him with his woes with projectiles.

For the second? Dear lord, without absolute **** for airspeed, Ganondorf not only might be able to recover better, he might actually be able to avoid being a victim of every single juggle in the game.

Plus, y'know, it would help his neutral game.
A moving jab or Ftilt might help for whiff punishing, though, and Dtilt still functions as a (stationary) poking move. So, not asking about helping him approach, but more of helping him punish more as he'd have more moves that move him forward. For the second, I was asking if it was really necessary that Ganondorf's air speed dropped from being Brawl's below-average to his Melee low. I don't think so since it's not like his air speed was above 1 or anywhere near Yoshi, Jigglypuff, or Roy's air speed. Your answer sort of does that since he's not going to be terrifying; he'd just have a quality of life buff. This also begs the question why Triple D's air speed was nerfed from 0.658 to 0.63, from slow to slow, in 1.1.4 despite it not really being a problem or having a major effect on his gameplay pre- and post-patch...
 

verbatim

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
618
For someone with as slow as him Ganondorf doesn't really have that much of a problem punishing whiffs. Dash attack is usually more than capable assuming you are facing them when they whiff, and b-reverse flame choke can work in a pinch when they aren't.

What Ganondorf really needs comes down to a matter of balancing. Obviously lowering his FAF's and maybe making jab start earlier would be a gigantic upgrade but I don't know if it really fits in with Ganondorf's theme of high commitment high punish.


Speaking of high punish, I would go back to maining Ganondorf in a heart beat if I could actually kill with any of his throws, dthrow looks like it should combo into fair or bair and literally every other one looks like it should kill, but they're all so unbecoming of Ganon.
 

Ray_Kalm

Smash Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
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Ontario, Canada
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Then she'd know I have you as a side girl, Kosk.
Thats it? That's your comeback? Really?

I'd expect something of a much more elegant response for a post like that from you, come on Verm, you're slacking.
 
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Koskinator

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
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Location
Kelowna, BC Canada
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I'm gonna send your girlfriend soooooo many miiverse messages. Ohhh yeah we're even gonna do the seldom used wii u video chat ;) and do unspeakable things verm ;) before you know it I'll be sleeping in her bed, but don't worry, we'll rent you the basement so you wont be homeless. You'll fall asleep every night to the soothing sound of our lovemaking emanating through the house. But soon verm would fall into a deep and mind altering depression, he stopped talking to his friends and would not emerge from the basement which we granted him sanctuary. He began to plot how to remove Kosk from his life and win back his former love. Will Verms plot come to fruition? Or will the sounds of constant love making drive him to psychosis? Find out on the next episode of Verm: Basement Blues
 
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adom4

Smash Lord
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Dec 4, 2007
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Israel
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Use punctuation dammit, that **** is unreadable.
 

Ray_Kalm

Smash Master
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May 28, 2008
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Ontario, Canada
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Hey guys. I'll be attending brawl and smash 4 singles weekly every thursday now (including today).

Www.twitch.tv/logicgatestudios

The stream will usually be up 7:30 Canada/Us -5 EST time.

These usually contain many top level players.
 
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mgleed

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
154
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Glendale, AZ
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mgleed
Here's the results of the Ganondorf MU Survey I ran this week, in order of best to worst matchups from left to right. The results used to make the image are here if you're interested in seeing which characters had the highest and lowest consensus.

Some background: Players were asked to rate each MU from +3 (highly favorable) to -3 (highly unfavorable), with the option of skipping the question if unsure. Results were collected, and only responses from Ganon mains (~76%), secondaries (~12%), and pockets (~12%) were accepted. Fortunately, there weren't any troll submissions, but I did systematically remove outliers using the modified Thompson Tau Method with a threshold to exclude only the most severe. The mean was then taken for each MU, and tier placement was assigned by rounding at midpoints (e.g., "0 Even" contains scores from +0.5 to -0.5).

Thanks for your participation!

 
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pawclaw

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
32
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New Jersey
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Pawclaw
Hey, guys. I'd like to introduce myself, for a moment.

I'm Pawclaw, from New Jersey. Originally a Falco main since release, I've been picking up and dropping ganon a lot ever since the release of smash 4, kind of like Wii Fit Trainer and Marth, whom I had to revisit time and again after going to other characters, to understand the perspective or angles I needed to consider when playing them, without feeling like I'm exhausting myself on trying to make progress with a character. That being said, I have only started soloing or putting ganon at the batter's plate for the last couple months and playing him essentially as a MAIN, only resorting to Falco on my absolute worst personal matchups. I've been placingfairly well at locals recently, getting 3rd and 5th for the last few tournaments, with maybe 1 or 2 terrible placements. I've actually fought @Gunblade789 , we agreed to mirrors at a local in bracket , and he beat me best of 3 with neck to neck results. And then a couple weeks later, I beat him in mirrors. Now, I don't know what that says, considering gunblade is currently playing a handful of characters and probably hasn't played ganondorf in a while, but it's definitely a milestone for me and says a little bit about the progress my ganondorf has made (if no footage is present of my ganondorf). Each tournament having maybe 20-30 entrants. It has been SUCH A THRILL to play ganondorf over the last month or so. I've gotten many compliments from my opponents, even with the most disrespectful set endings. And I'm pleased to say that I had the privilege to disrespect a bayonetta, on stream, day 3 of her release (that I also have footage for). I'm very confident.

Off the bat, I would say that, to my surprise, after looking at the post ( http://smashboards.com/threads/demon-kings-3-experts-weigh-in-on-smash-4-ganondorf.430776/ ) I do well against zero suit, sheik, and Rosalina and Luma (not to say that they are each not very hard). BUT diddy kong is a character I JUST can't WRAP my HEAD around. Christ.
Now, as part of my introduction, I want to link a video. However, I don't know if its suitable to put a video either here, OR in the ganon video thread: ( http://smashboards.com/threads/the-battle-for-power-video-matchmaking-thread.368251/ ) . I have one special video I want to show you guys, and also I upload my matches to my youtube channel from local streams periodically.

Let me know!!! I'm going to post in the ganon tier list and video thread as well in a moment.

Anyway, now that that has been said, I would like to give to take the time respect to the ganon I have observed thusfar or remember (its been a month or so since I had time to just look up ganondorf videos, much less know where to look besides general youtube filters )

Ray_Kalm Ray_Kalm , your ganondorf is exquisite. It is definitely at the top and every now and then I look up videos of you, to maybe find some confidence on certain matchups, or just to get ideas. One idea that I've been employing SPECIFICALLY on streams at tournaments or on my personal stream, is shield break into model push into ganoncide. It is so disrespectful in all the right ways and I have a couple videos of footage that I want to upload and add a little shoutout to you for, for teaching me that, in a way.

@Gunblade789 , I've known about you ever since I started my first tournament ever around when (outside reference) Roy came out in Project M, and have met you many times. You were a decent marth player, and now in Smash 4 it seems that you are our region's (tri-state)'s ganondorf (if not you, then myself, at this point), and play other heavy hitters like DDD as well. I haven't watched too many matches of yours, but I always hear that you like to condition people into airdodging and make great use of up smash, which I always have admired since I started soloing/playing ganon a lot more. Even with my own arsenal of tricks, gimmicks, and plays up my sleeve, and even though it seems I have surpassed you, I still admire your plays and you're a funny guy in person. I know you're playing Cloud and Corrin nowadays, but much respect to your ganon. I always hesitate before sharing with people that I beat you in ganon mirrors, because I feel like you have maybe put aside ganondorf for a little too long, and would probably come back and best me in another ganon mirror, given the opportunity. Keep commentating and stay awesome, man.

There's a ganondorf vine account. I saw him maybe a couple times and thought the tech he displayed was amazing and very creative. However, I only watched all of his ganondorf vines an hour ago, being tipped by one of the ganon mains talking about him in this thread, though the name escapes me.

Anyway, I very much look forward to connecting with the ganondorf community more. I stream every now and then, but more details on that on another post. This one's extensively long already. I want to bring warlock punch to the competitive scene more, as I have made great use of it and thing it is severely underused, for a character that excels on reads and initimidation.

Here's a small introduction video that is a compilation of clips from my stream. It's nothing impressive, and it's more on the goofy side, being my earlier days with ganon but it's a nice ice breaker for me, my ganondorf, and my streams. Feel free to check out my tournament matches. And when prompted, I'll post that other hype video I talked about earlier in this post.

 

Opana

Smash Lord
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Jun 6, 2013
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NY
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pawclaw pawclaw

I believe I've heard your name before from someone, I think we may be around the same area. You should come down to the ESE tourneys sometime in Middletown, I don't like the mirror in tourney but I'd be more than happy to play tons of hype friendlies.

I wish I knew who brought you up though, sorry my memory sucks lol.
 
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