The Founding of D Gamesia - Game over? Who scum wins reigned supreme in DGames?

[th3duder]

Why'd you list us twice? lol

This is an okay list. I would change a few things.

Chibo has been pretty inactive based on your standards, I would say. What specifically about his slot has perturbed you enough to give a slight scum read?

I'm also curious as to your reasoning for Soup being obvtown.

Curious you only answered the obvtownSoup reasoning. Please respond to the bolded as well, Sword, especially considering you just said:

Explain this. When you say Chibo is Chibo-ish you're implying meta. However, Chibo has been very inactive, and I can't not possibly see how anyone could be applying meta to someone right now.

If you aren't basing your scum read on meta, and you agree he has been inactive, what are you basing it on?

 

[Chaco]

@Sword: I have a lot of experience with Chibo, and it's that typical Chibo play. No allignment discerned yet.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Duder: Missed that. I feel that Chibo's "no one died last Night?" question was stupidly anti-town. No matter what alignment he is, he should of realized the WIFOM behind such a question beforehand. Furthermore, none of his posts so far (even his "big" post) feel like actual contribution.

@Chaco: What does it mean to be "Chibo-ish" though? Also, again, how can you be using any meta right now when he simply hasn't been here?

@FZ: You didn't talk about Marluxia. Please do.

 

[ForeverZero]

Marluxia has been nothing but defiant all game.

Marluxia has also primarily asked questions that seem meant to instigate by their very nature.

Soupa, what's your opinion on th3duder telling ya what to do/what not to do? Do you wanna answer those questions or would you rather not?

The former I'd consider a town tell for anyone but J, the latter I'd consider a scum tell for anyone but J.

The constant attacking of a player and then backing off...

Whoever said I was attacking Zen because he attacked me? (which he really hasn't at all)

I dislike. It reeks of attempting to hide. That said, Marluxia has also drawn a lot of attention to himself with those stupid and pointed questions.

So while Chibo's actions are all null, Maluxia's are bouncing back and forth between scummy and town. I'm unsure of how often the other person is posting and how much is J, but if J is scum he'll out himself soon enough and give us a scummate with them.

One thing I did dislike about Marluxia was this:

Ryker vs. Kuzi was really annoying to watch because it was getting a little petty throughout some of it. From the argument itself, I agree to the sentiment of it not being SvS. I even do not really see it being TvS as well.

This irks me quite a bit.

Nonchalantly clearing two people who have a high profile argument in the start of the day? If that doesn't sound like a gambit I don't know what does. If Marluxia flipped scum, I'd go after Duder or Meadow. Duder is one of my town reads so it'd be Meadow. Especially since Meadow was the instigator. Just saying.

A common tactic I use when I am scum is to bring a lot of attention to myself very early on; it makes it easier to survive after the initial confrontation, and helps confuse town as to who to vote for. I don't think Meadow would be silly enough to do that in a Kingmaker setup, but the basic idea of drawing a lot of innocent attention early on followed up with a scummate saying "I think those two arguing people are town" is something out of my playbook, so it caught my eye.

But I'm not worried much about that argument right now.

I really dislike hunting more than one player a time in the early game and would really like it if Meadow and Soup both answered my questions in full.

Sword, what is your opinion on those that refuse to answer questions?

 

[Marluxia_]

I'm assuming the questions you brought up are the ones that you considered instigating which they really aren't. Also constantly attacking and backing off? Where have I done this yet? Also why is it a specific mafia-tell for me?

How does asking if Zen has been attacking me, trying to hide?

I also never said I cleared either of them because of said argument. I said I had a hard time seeing T/S but not that it wasn't plausible.

 

[Marluxia_]

@Several people: Marluxia, talk about FZ and chibo.

Null and Null. I mean there is not really much to talk about towards either. Chibo is not here and FZ just got here but they seem to be doing good things but at the same time I'm cautious because it is OS of all people. Basically the same problem with both is, I need more to see.

 

[Marluxia_]

To be honest, gut. I've played with Zen often and his current way of play leans town to me

Okay, help me learn where your gut is coming from. Can you show me some posts that show ZenTown in your opinion?

 

[th3duder]

Marluxia has been nothing but defiant all game.

Marluxia has also primarily asked questions that seem meant to instigate by their very nature.



The former I'd consider a town tell for anyone but J, the latter I'd consider a scum tell for anyone but J.

The constant attacking of a player and then backing off...



I dislike. It reeks of attempting to hide. That said, Marluxia has also drawn a lot of attention to himself with those stupid and pointed questions.

So while Chibo's actions are all null, Maluxia's are bouncing back and forth between scummy and town. I'm unsure of how often the other person is posting and how much is J, but if J is scum he'll out himself soon enough and give us a scummate with them.

One thing I did dislike about Marluxia was this:



This irks me quite a bit.

Nonchalantly clearing two people who have a high profile argument in the start of the day? If that doesn't sound like a gambit I don't know what does. If Marluxia flipped scum, I'd go after Duder or Meadow. Duder is one of my town reads so it'd be Meadow. Especially since Meadow was the instigator. Just saying.

A common tactic I use when I am scum is to bring a lot of attention to myself very early on; it makes it easier to survive after the initial confrontation, and helps confuse town as to who to vote for. I don't think Meadow would be silly enough to do that in a Kingmaker setup, but the basic idea of drawing a lot of innocent attention early on followed up with a scummate saying "I think those two arguing people are town" is something out of my playbook, so it caught my eye.

But I'm not worried much about that argument right now.

I really dislike hunting more than one player a time in the early game and would really like it if Meadow and Soup both answered my questions in full.

Sword, what is your opinion on those that refuse to answer questions?

What was the point of this post?

First of all, the first two bolded statements of this post are simply untrue.

For someone calling Marl out for bouncing back and forth, your slot has been doing a ton of that this game. You bring up information that you don't like about Marl, then you introduce new information that you do like about Marl and then you finish the post with "but I'm not worried much about that argument right now."

Then you selectively create an ultimatum, based on things you (not marl) do as scum on the grounds that he thinks that me vs. sizzle is TvT. I'm glad you think tactics you use as scum automatically apply to other players, but this reasoning is bull.

What bothers me most about this post is that literally I can remember 4 different people saying the exact same thing as Marl wrt to duder vs sizzle, that it's probably TvT. Purple, Vocal, Soup and Sword pretty much stated this exact same reasoning (though I think Sword has changed his read from that time) to say the exchange was TvT yet you haven't expressed any problem with it until Marl mentioned it. Regardless of the sentiment itself the fact that you only bring it up when Marl does it in conjuncture with your recent push on Marl doesn't sit right.

I'm sure you know the term, selective scumhunting, OS.

 

[th3duder]

@Duder: Missed that. I feel that Chibo's "no one died last Night?" question was stupidly anti-town. No matter what alignment he is, he should of realized the WIFOM behind such a question beforehand. Furthermore, none of his posts so far (even his "big" post) feel like actual contribution.

What? If it was townChibo he would have just asked that question innocently without the foresight of thinking about WIFOM. If it was scumChibo he probably would have counted on it, so his post is totally and completely null. I don't see how the lends any weight to your scumChibo read.

So, furthermore, you think he is scum for his lack of actual contribution. I agree but that reasoning doesn't really set him apart from like half of the player list so I don't know why that has given you a cause for concern wrt Chibo specifically. If non-contribution is the main reasoning for a scumpick (not deadweight) 13 pages into a game then I think you need to re-evaluate what you do find Chibo scummy for.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

F0, ill get to your question on friday when I'm back at My dads and I can sit down and type for once.

Another thing, I want to like you, f0, but I'm not sure if I can trust you, your actions are shady and you only seem to comment on things then leave an ominous vibe to it, such as the ultimatum pointed out by duder.

But, I feel it will have some point later in time, or I hope it will.

 

[ForeverZero]

What was the point of this post?

First of all, the first two bolded statements of this post are simply untrue.

For someone calling Marl out for bouncing back and forth, your slot has been doing a ton of that this game. You bring up information that you don't like about Marl, then you introduce new information that you do like about Marl and then you finish the post with "but I'm not worried much about that argument right now."

Then you selectively create an ultimatum, based on things you (not marl) do as scum on the grounds that he thinks that me vs. sizzle is TvT. I'm glad you think tactics you use as scum automatically apply to other players, but this reasoning is bull.

What bothers me most about this post is that literally I can remember 4 different people saying the exact same thing as Marl wrt to duder vs sizzle, that it's probably TvT. Purple, Vocal, Soup and Sword pretty much stated this exact same reasoning (though I think Sword has changed his read from that time) to say the exchange was TvT yet you haven't expressed any problem with it until Marl mentioned it. Regardless of the sentiment itself the fact that you only bring it up when Marl does it in conjuncture with your recent push on Marl doesn't sit right.

I'm sure you know the term, selective scumhunting, OS.

It is selective scumhunting.

Chosen by Sworddancer, the king, who specifically asked me twice to comment on Marluxia.

The point of this post was to answer the King's question. I originally didn't answer it because I'm not interested in Marluxia right now, and any comments on that slot will lead to things such as this, but he asks and he receives.

Purple, Vocal, Soup and Sword?

Marluxia was post #379 claiming it was TvT.

Sword in #371 claimed:

The battle between Duder and MS is definitly either TvT or SvT. It's highly unlikely that it's SvS.

So, possibility of TvT. Didn't say he thought it was TvT.

Purple in #369;

So, I think th3duder makes the most sense to me in this particular
situation.
He's right in the idea that sizzle is definitely reaching each case he puts against him. I know personally that as a hydra even though you work together, you don't particularly work together you don't always see eye to eye, or in this case, you don't always communicate before posting, this is a prime examole of that. I feel dud3r is town still, but man, i can't particularly say MS is scum due to this altercation, just reaching beyond all belief.

Close enough to TvT.

Soup in #346:

I like vocal
Duder v. MS is TvT or TvS, no way in hell it's SvS.

Vocal in #334:

In my mind, scum would not make such a strong attempt to push such a weak case. This may just be me not being familiar with the playstyles of the players in that hydra, but for now it just strikes me as townies trying to spark flames for the first day by applying strong pressure. I decided not to comment on it til asked as I feel it douses the flames a little (and it's not like I'm an expert on how to light more), but I get townie enough vibes that they aren't a priority for me ToDay.

Considering Meadow town, no real comment on you.


So, Marl's post:

From the argument itself, I agree to the sentiment of it not being SvS. I even do not really see it being TvS as well.

Still sits poorly with me. Purple's does too, but I wasn't asked about purple and don't have enough from purple's posting history to really make any comment on his playerslot whatsoever.

If Sworddancer asks me about someone, I'll answer 'em; doesn't mean I have much worthwhile to say.

As for this:

Then you selectively create an ultimatum, based on things you (not marl) do as scum on the grounds that he thinks that me vs. sizzle is TvT. I'm glad you think tactics you use as scum automatically apply to other players, but this reasoning is bull.

What ultimatum? That if Marl flipped scum I'd go after you or Meadow? I'd be lying if you coming to Marl's rescue after I comment on how I dislike that hydra trying to clear you and meadow didn't make my ears twitch.

A common tactic I use when I am scum is to bring a lot of attention to myself very early on; it makes it easier to survive after the initial confrontation, and helps confuse town as to who to vote for. I don't think Meadow would be silly enough to do that in a Kingmaker setup, but the basic idea of drawing a lot of innocent attention early on followed up with a scummate saying "I think those two arguing people are town" is something out of my playbook, so it caught my eye.

It caught my eye, and someone claiming that two high profile players are both obviously town and not leaving room for them to be scum seems odd to me.

It doesn't seem like something important to remember to you?

Another thing, I want to like you, f0, but I'm not sure if I can trust you, your actions are shady and you only seem to comment on things then leave an ominous vibe to it, such as the ultimatum pointed out by duder.

It's the avatar.

That and I came into this game later than everyone else and am still waiting for my first round of questioning to be completed. I don't have reads worth posting at the moment; just observations.

I'm still wondering why duder is picking semantic arguments rather than scumhunting though.



But most of all, I want my damn questions answered.

Then I want Raziek to come back.

 

[Xivii]

I never uttered such words. The question still stands, is it a scum-tell to ignore things? You've also yet to give scum-picks so who Zen do you find as scum? Is it Chibo/Marluxia whom you find "suspicious"?

I was not calling you scummy for ignoring my question so I don't know why you're asking this. I don't think you do either.

To answer, ignoring questions in itself isn't scummy, it's the reason why that matters. For example, Soup not answering the questions in your 426 isn't anything noteworthy because his answers could give out unecessary information, his reason for doing so is apparant. Now say someone did something questionable/suspicious, and someone questions them about it. Them ignoring that only looks like they are trying to avoid something that could incriminate them. If it can't, then there's no reason to ignore the question.

You still haven't answered me btw, and I assume Smoth has been on by now. Also tell me what you mean by "we meet again". Do you think I'm scum? I honestly don't know what you're saying here.

Because it is helping me gain a better read on Soupa and his thoughts since I am a bit scrambled to recall most of them all. Also a person you want as king doesn't have to be obvtown as well, you could very well have a scum-pick become King and see what they do under the pressure of being King. That's an interesting route I'd like to see taken.

Why would you ever make your scum pick as king? There would be very little benefit to this. Most kings will probably shoot who they want, so it's not as if the person they shoot would be a sure-fire way of catching them. It would just be unecessarily putting yourself in a wiffomy position. Not to mention youd be giving them immunity for the day.

 

[CT Chia]

Reading the last 10 pages now to catch up, so I can be more caught up in ongoing conversation. I will read anything else that happened before then I might have missed later.

Seriously, can all hydras who haven't already please add what players you are to your location or subtitle like the others? I don't want to keep having to go back to the OP to remember.

Sizzle 331:
I think it's awkward for you to just say it isn't a scum tell, but think negatively of duder for doing so. Sure there are some by the book scum tells, but they are all essentially opinions at the end of the day. He's entitled to his opinion of it being a scumtell, and if you don't so, prove to him why it isn't instead of just stating it as such.

No, ryker, i've read the whole thing, just nothing of merit, it's just back and forth crap that doesn't give me anything, i just filtered it to a more shorter version, i coulda added alot more but it's just so trivial.

I feel the same about the argument

Tunnel vision on day one? Afterwards, sure, I'd agree with you, but tunnel vision on day one has just struck me as trying to get things rolling. Just my two cents.

What are people's thought on tunnel vision in general in this game? I think the mechanic is a lot different with Kingmaker, and no where near as bad as in normal games. Generally, someone being stubborn and not budging can really hinder town in a game, since their vote could be needed to obtain a majority vote. In Kingmaker, that really isn't the case though. In Kingmaker, being keen on a single person could really just be a way to help push the idea to the king of who to kill. This could be seen as town or scum - but what matters in comparison is that it doesn't hurt town as much as normal - so it's not such an issue this time around for people bringing it up.

I like vocal
Duder v. MS is TvT or TvS, no way in hell it's SvS.

Why do you not think it could be SvS?

My better half is starting to think he's just acting like a 6 year old childish and is town but I have to see how others respond to the interaction before I can say for certain.

Can you reference people by their name? Though I know you mean Tom.

@Chibo: If you had to send someone to the gallows right now, who would it be and why? (Not a loaded question, just wondering if you have any thoughts.)

I haven't come to a strong enough conclusion to send anyone away based on posts yet, so I would choose Forever Zero for not posting in the game yet up to this point.

I also feel like sizzle is trying to control people here and there which his stupid requests of people.

Can you point out what parts you feel are controlling, as you put it?

Question: Why does it matter so long as the two halves only post on the hydra?

Help with reads, comparing to past games. Also everyones regular names are all in my head since i've played with all of ya before, so I can think of you as that. With hydras it's like I have to learn completely new people (by name I mean). I can get people mixed up, thinking hmmm was x in this hydra or that one. Also, if the mod is going to allow self conversation between them, which splits them up anyway in thought, and if players are going to refer to themselves and the other ones separately in the hydra (such as kuz calling tom is better half or someone in a hydra saying back from VLA) - it's all just an idea being pushed that hydras are comprised of separate people - and my reply to that is we should be owed the knowledge of knowing who the separate people are.

And finally, we know who is in each hydra, it's in the OP. It's just A LOT more convenient to have it be in every single post in the information so if we forget and want to look back at it, we don't have to go back to the OP.

Are you stupid? Can you not think? Did your parents drop you when you were a child? Are you stupid? Or is it all of the above?

It's not just a random clear. More importantly, it's a different clear with a role that they can influence. We're never gonna lynch a claimed Kingmaker, so they have nothing held over their heads to make them do what town wants. That means scum can wait until they get a sympathetic kingmaker to stop killing him. This is bad.

Do you talk this mean to everyone you disagree with?

---

I've gotta stop for a lil bit, some skype meetings I have to attend. This is a few pages done, will catch up the rest when done.

 

[ForeverZero]

I haven't come to a strong enough conclusion to send anyone away based on posts yet, so I would choose Forever Zero for not posting in the game yet up to this point.

Glad to see you're all caught up.

 

[CT Chia]

i said UP TO THIS POINT aka at the time of him asking that question

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Cause Duder, no matter what his alignment he should of known that what he asked was an anti-town thing to ask. I like to give more credit to Chibo's intelligence.

I'll explain the second part to you later. Right now going into more detail might corrupt something I'm noticing about one of the players. Trust me on this.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

In other news, the more MS lurks, the more I think he's scum.

 

[th3duder]

Cause Duder, no matter what his alignment he should of known that what he asked was an anti-town thing to ask. I like to give more credit to Chibo's intelligence.

I'll explain the second part to you later. Right now going into more detail might corrupt something I'm noticing about one of the players. Trust me on this.

TBH if I had not read the kingmaker rules in detail before the game and I had seen a no kill on N0 I probably would have asked about it too. Still pretty null.

And I suppose I'll have to trust you on the second. Just make sure you explain it to me when you've learned whatever you're hoping to learn.

 

[Xivii]

Marluxia, how many of your posts have been made by Smoth?

 

[Meadowsizzle]

So you agree with me that you've been playing with tunnel vision and thus am scummy?

What's your read on Vocal?

No, not at all. I believe we've stressed multiple times that we have the scum team, not just you.

Null leaning scum. Working hard on getting me to change my previous comment to a safety net of two players. Keep in mind that I'm not caught up yet, so I haven't gotten everything from him yet.

To get to the point of tunneling you have to be beating something to death pretty hard. And no, this definitely goes beyond the point where he is just trying to keep the ball rolling. My persistence is striking? Do you even see the persistence with what MS is tunneling me for?

This is definitely me pushing a lynch, not some starting the game bull****.

That being said, you need to point out why you say I'm tunneling.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

I also feel like sizzle is trying to control people here and there which his stupid requests of people.

Talk to me, Roxy.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

He's right in the idea that sizzle is definitely reaching each case he puts against him. I know personally that as a hydra even though you work together, you don't particularly work together you don't always see eye to eye, or in this case, you don't always communicate before posting, this is a prime examole of that. I feel dud3r is town still, but man, i can't particularly say MS is scum due to this altercation, just reaching beyond all belief.

Talk to me, Roxy.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Here, MS did not address any of Duder’s defense at all. Instead, he simply dropped a blanket statement on it. Duder did actually bring up accurate points to his defense. MS has stated that Duder’s post is simply a “no u.” Now, Duder did point out contradictions in MS’s post, but that was because he was defending against MS’s case. Duder’s defense post is in no way an OMGUS like MS implies it is. If someone attacks you with faulty logic, then pointing out the faulty logic is not a simple OMGUS. It’s a simple to defense.

Oh boy, let's go, baby.

You're stating things with no back-up. Quote where he actually brings up accurate points instead of restating his original point which we already had a problem with. NO ONE has done this. And it's the easiest way to get a response or clarification from us.

Again, back your **** up, because I do not recall these contradictions you are referencing. I would think if he had such ammuniton, he would be gunning for a Meadowsizzle shot, don't you?

Oh really? I believe we went to great lengths to point out how we didn't like that he wasn't pushing for us with the stance he was taking in calling us dumb or scum.

Posts like that aren't gonna fly and I want you to go back and find the quotes to back your **** up.

MS has stated that he does not want to trade walls. Okay, fine, but that doesn’t mean you can just dismiss the entire rebuttal to your own case with a blanket term, especially when that’s not the case. Couldn’t MS at least address just the parts he found relevant at the very least?

If you read the post you quoted, you find that there's an offer there to challenge what we said without trading walls, yet he NEVER took us up on it, nor did he even comment on it. We're far from shying away from confrontation with him.

MS has not followed up on his oringal case against Duder, instead chosing to focus on more shallow things. Ever since this post, the quality of MS’s accusations has fallen.

For that we apologize, we got drawn into chasing rabbits and it hurt our credibility.

For example, I agree with Duder that MS has been reaching in several instances. At one point, MS accuses Duder of fluffing in a hypocritical manner (this is after Duder attacked Raz for fluffing). However, while it is true that several of Duder's post where fluffy useless posts, it is also true that much more of his post contain relevant content in them. Fluffing is only relevant when someone is almost ONLY posting fluff. Duder has most certainly not done that, so calling him out on it is folly.

Wrong. We definitely also pointed out the ones where his "relevant information" was scummy as ****. The majority of his posts are not cool.

Two other points that I felt was reaching on MS's behalf are his points about the hydra logs and his timing on posting. Unless the hydra logs are obviously being faked, then the existence of them should be treated as null. If I'm understanding correctly, MS thinks they are being faked due to the last bits of the hydra logs, where Kuz and Tom talk about the hydra logs. MS states that he thinks Duder is fishing for town cred. This may be true, but it also might not be. It's WIFOM, it's an unprovable accusations, and it's a null tell. It should be treated as such.

BULLS***!!! You are NOT WIFOMing this away. Look at the post. Those hydra logs are posted in an attempt to clear himself without confronting our case. Every bit of what we said regarding those hydra logs is fair and valid. I've found out from experience that literally anything you can call a scum tell can be WIFOMed away, so don't give me that. Give me solid reasons for why YOU don't believe that the hydra logs were faked in an attempt to clear Duder while taking into account what we've said on the matter.

The other point was MS pointing out Duder's somewhat slow reactions, accusing him of delaying his response (or at least implying it). Again an unprovable accusations, and thus a null tell. MS should not be using this reasoning to incriminate Duder.

Why? Waiting is an EXTREMELY powerful scum tool. They threw out several assertions that it was dumb without addressing it in that time period they were "unable" to respond. The hydra log showed up then as well. They only get around to it after we get into the thread and continue pushing for it.

Now, all this said, I agree that MS oringal case against Duder had merit, because I felt that Duder’s accustions against Raz were weak and shallow (accusations of someone fluffing so early seems weak and shallow to me).

Then you are willing to shoot him when we finish nailing his team?

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Why, exactly?

After reading your squabble with Tom/Kuz, I have some questions.

1) If you had King now, would you kill theduder or myself?

2) Looking at the player list, the two strongest players seem to be myself and Frozen's hydra and Tom'Kuz's hydra. Why are we both your only choices for attention?

The duder's play hasn't been bad from what I've seen. It more looks like he ragged on someone for being stupid and that exploded. And wasted my time.

Duder in a heartbeat.

Because Duder is scum and I like poking Frozenflame.

I will hold you to that read later on.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

MS, what do you think of F0 now that he's posted?

Definitely scum, but not as definite as Duder.

 

[Raziek]

I dropped off the face of Mafia for a few days mostly due to work, and apathy.

I'll be catching up tomorrow, I work tonight, but have tomorrow off.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Do you know what the percentage change of this actually happening is? This is probably the only con you can think of which comes no where close to outweighing the pros to doing so. We get a new clear every single day. Scum don't get to choose the clear, it is chosen at random. The chances of scum killing the kingmaker and then randomly getting a king who's reads line up perfectly with scum's and we get a bad pick is the exact same as the current kingmaker making that same choice, regardless of who it is.

What does percentage chance matter? Scum can simply keep killing them until it lands where they want. It doesn't have to happen in one day. They can just as easily stop on someone free who they can manipulate in a direction they want.

How the hell does one clear make it worth it to put that in the scum playbook? The only way it's really going to matter is if you are the clear and it ends our back and forth, which, from your stance on the matter, seems highly unlikely. You're making it out to seem like one clear is a HUGE deal when we always have that clear as long as we have a mislynch and the consequences are improbable. The clear exists, we just have no reason to out him right now.


F0, opinion on this argument?

 

[Meadowsizzle]

This is complete nonsense. Scum cannot control who is King Maker. It's completely random. This for one is a benefit, as someone who was suspicious previously could be cleared instantly. Your point about Vocal and Sword is set up in a way just to support your argument. TownVocal would have just as much chance as becoming KM as any othet town member, and ScumSword would not have control over who Vocal picks as king. Just because Vocal stated that he would be fine with Sword as king again doesn't say anything about whether he'd actually pick him to be king.

Can you not read? Do I need to buy you Hooked On Phonics? Or Rosetta Stone for *******?

They control who they want cleared because they can stop killing him whenever they want to. Bull****. Scum can definitely control half this player list if there's anything anywhere near good on the scum team (hint hint Duder hint hint).

 

[Meadowsizzle]

I never asked for him to list his town reads. However, at this point, I'm gonna drop it because this conversation I feel is going to get nowhere but stupider/anti-town.

That happens when you talk to Duder for an extended period of time.

 

[ForeverZero]

What does percentage chance matter? Scum can simply keep killing them until it lands where they want. It doesn't have to happen in one day. They can just as easily stop on someone free who they can manipulate in a direction they want.

How the hell does one clear make it worth it to put that in the scum playbook? The only way it's really going to matter is if you are the clear and it ends our back and forth, which, from your stance on the matter, seems highly unlikely. You're making it out to seem like one clear is a HUGE deal when we always have that clear as long as we have a mislynch and the consequences are improbable. The clear exists, we just have no reason to out him right now.


F0, opinion on this argument?

It is in Town's best interests to not have the Kingmaker claim, but both of you are not taking the optimum strategy into account and, frankly, your argument leaves much to be desired.

Should a kingmaker claim that dislikes scum, it is in scum's best interest to kill said Kingmaker. Then someone else gets kingmaker that might like scum more.

If myself and duder were scum and you claimed kingmaker, we know that we would never be crowned king and you would do your best to give king to someone that would kill us. Claiming would be beneficial to scum in this circumstance.

But that's really not that big of a deal in exchange for a free clear, assuming that the cleared player pulled his weight. Trustworthy information is always helpful. More important than the issue of constantly killing the kingmaker is the fact that it puts the Hero in a bright light.

There are 8 villagers, 1 kingmaker, 1 hero, and 3 assassins according to the main post.

1. Meadowsizzle (Sold2/Ryker)
2. Raziek
3. Marluxia_ (Shadow Moth/J)
4. Zεη
5. th3duder (th3kuzinator/Tom)
6. ForeverZero (frozenflame751/Overswarm)
7. Purple
8. Chaco
9. Beat!
10. Sworddancer.
11. Soupamario
12. vVv Chibosempai
13. -Vocal-

Assuming that you take off the top 4 for being scum/king:


5. th3duder (th3kuzinator/Tom)
6. ForeverZero (frozenflame751/Overswarm)
7. Purple
8. Chaco
9. Beat!
10. Sworddancer.
11. Soupamario
12. vVv Chibosempai
13. -Vocal-

That's a 1 in 8 chance of killing the Hero.... on Day 1. Remove two for every day phase afterwards, and you realize that 1 in 8 becomes a 1 in 6 on day 2, 1 in 4 on day 3, and a 50% chance on day 4, assuming scum and kingmaker aren't killed. The ease in finding the hero in even one in six on day two, quite a possibility, would be unsettling. I'd rather it have at least one more.

Yes, the hero can be dangerous to town; he can kill a town aligned king who thinks he is scummy....

But read carefully:

Hello there, Player X! You are the Village Hero! You reign supreme to all other Villagers, in that if a king decides that you are to be executed, the village will fight that notion, and will kill the king instead! Once revealed that you are the hero through that power, however, you will not be allowed to become King of D Gamesia. You win once all of the assassins are lynched, and the village is at peace once again.

He will be revealed to have the power. The hero will become our confirmed townie. We don't need the Kingmaker to continually reveal to get a confirmed townie; eventually the hero will be selected by the king and then we'll have a confirmed townie immediately after that scum basically HAVE to kill.



Also?



The only good a "confirmed townie" does in this game is if they are king, which is impossible in this setup. Past that, they're the same to us alive or dead as far as reads are concerned. They have no real power.


So, Kingmaker? Keep your trap shut. We get another if you die, but that doesn't mean it's helpful to have a temporary clear townie. We don't get any magic reads from it, you're just as likely to choose to kill a townie as the rest of us. It just gives us one less buffer for the Hero, who we DON'T get another of.


Oh, and by the by?

When the hero is revealed, THEN the kingmaker can reveal. Then we have TWO phases back to back where scum are limited to killing our two confirmed townies.

Unless, of course, the hero is killed by scum.

So keep your mouth shut, and maybe on D3 we'll have something like this:

5. th3duder (th3kuzinator/Tom) CONFIRMED KINGMAKER
6. ForeverZero (frozenflame751/Overswarm) CONFIRMED HERO
7. Purple [hidden scum]
8. Chaco [hidden scum]
9. Beat! [hidden scum]
10. Sworddancer.
11. Soupamario
12. vVv Chibosempai
13. -Vocal-




(note: I'm well aware the hero would probably be killed that Night, but forcing scum to clear a confirmed townie is still good, and would give us a 3/8 chance of catching scum on Day 3, which is still good odds given we have even remotely acceptable reads)

 

[Meadowsizzle]

So far the Meadowsizze and Duder argument is making me want to punch myself. Sizzle is just a dumb****, and I'm okay with Duder. Although all those walls were absolutely not needed. I figured concision could be of use.

Making it more concise would be helpful, so why don't you help me out like you did Joey in Ducktales? You made it extremely difficult to strawman PFP's wall of text.

 

[th3duder]

Ryker mad that he isn't getting his way? Cry me a river of salt if you feel so inclined to continue to take petty shots at us.

Will respond to your idiocy when I have a computer. Don't have an innurism in the meantime.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Another question for Meadow

Do you think Sworddancer is scummy?

I'm interested in Meadow's responses to my questions.

Yes, I've had a problem with almost everything he has said since we started actually doing things. He's positioned himself firmly on Duder's side, yet does things like saying "Meadowsizzle's original case has some merit," without explaining how it weighs against his Duder town read. He also does bull**** like trying to WIFOM away any and everything associated with hydralogs.

He is a member of our proposed scum team.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

A common tactic I use when I am scum is to bring a lot of attention to myself very early on; it makes it easier to survive after the initial confrontation, and helps confuse town as to who to vote for. I don't think Meadow would be silly enough to do that in a Kingmaker setup, but the basic idea of drawing a lot of innocent attention early on followed up with a scummate saying "I think those two arguing people are town" is something out of my playbook, so it caught my eye.

Does this stand for Soup or Vocal or anyone else who has said, and I paraphrase, "It's not SvS. It might be SvT, but it's probably TvT," because I've seen a LOT of that.

 

[ForeverZero]

Ryker mad that he isn't getting his way? Cry me a river of salt if you feel so inclined to continue to take petty shots at us.

Will respond to your idiocy when I have a computer. Don't have an innurism in the meantime.

Aneurysm.

Yes, I've had a problem with almost everything he has said since we started actually doing things. He's positioned himself firmly on Duder's side, yet does things like saying "Meadowsizzle's original case has some merit," without explaining how it weighs against his Duder town read. He also does bull**** like trying to WIFOM away any and everything associated with hydralogs.

He is a member of our proposed scum team.

So... Me, Duder, Swords, and Vocal?

That's four.

Does this stand for Soup or Vocal or anyone else who has said, and I paraphrase, "It's not SvS. It might be SvT, but it's probably TvT," because I've seen a LOT of that.

How about you make one big post after you've finished reading, including my response to this, rather than piecemeal? You're playing like chibo.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

What was the point of this post?

First of all, the first two bolded statements of this post are simply untrue.

For someone calling Marl out for bouncing back and forth, your slot has been doing a ton of that this game. You bring up information that you don't like about Marl, then you introduce new information that you do like about Marl and then you finish the post with "but I'm not worried much about that argument right now."

Then you selectively create an ultimatum, based on things you (not marl) do as scum on the grounds that he thinks that me vs. sizzle is TvT. I'm glad you think tactics you use as scum automatically apply to other players, but this reasoning is bull.

What bothers me most about this post is that literally I can remember 4 different people saying the exact same thing as Marl wrt to duder vs sizzle, that it's probably TvT. Purple, Vocal, Soup and Sword pretty much stated this exact same reasoning (though I think Sword has changed his read from that time) to say the exchange was TvT yet you haven't expressed any problem with it until Marl mentioned it. Regardless of the sentiment itself the fact that you only bring it up when Marl does it in conjuncture with your recent push on Marl doesn't sit right.

I'm sure you know the term, selective scumhunting, OS.

Oh no! I see a post from Duder that I like. I agree with the sentiment there.

 

[Marluxia_]

You still haven't answered me btw, and I assume Smoth has been on by now. Also tell me what you mean by "we meet again". Do you think I'm scum? I honestly don't know what you're saying here.

Actually, no he hasn't been on to talk about this game yet. He's been on but he's been busy otherwise. Yes, I think you are scum silly.

Marluxia, how many of your posts have been made by Smoth?

What do you hope to gain from asking this? It's an utterly pointless question. Regardless of that, I have been doing a majority of the posting as of pg10.

Ryker mad that he isn't getting his way? Cry me a river of salt if you feel so inclined to continue to take petty shots at us.

Will respond to your idiocy when I have a computer. Don't have an innurism in the meantime.

What is the point of this post besides to be an ***? Like seriously a majority of your posts lately are just you being an *** and trying to rile Ryker up. Ryker has some little ad-hominems he needs to drop as well but his at least he has backing whereas yours is just to be spiteful/rude. You attack him in every sentence you make in that post in some way.

Drop posts like this th3duder. I'm tired of reading your petty childish BS this game.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Reading the last 10 pages now to catch up, so I can be more caught up in ongoing conversation. I will read anything else that happened before then I might have missed later.

Seriously, can all hydras who haven't already please add what players you are to your location or subtitle like the others? I don't want to keep having to go back to the OP to remember.

Sizzle 331:
I think it's awkward for you to just say it isn't a scum tell, but think negatively of duder for doing so. Sure there are some by the book scum tells, but they are all essentially opinions at the end of the day. He's entitled to his opinion of it being a scumtell, and if you don't so, prove to him why it isn't instead of just stating it as such.



I feel the same about the argument



What are people's thought on tunnel vision in general in this game? I think the mechanic is a lot different with Kingmaker, and no where near as bad as in normal games. Generally, someone being stubborn and not budging can really hinder town in a game, since their vote could be needed to obtain a majority vote. In Kingmaker, that really isn't the case though. In Kingmaker, being keen on a single person could really just be a way to help push the idea to the king of who to kill. This could be seen as town or scum - but what matters in comparison is that it doesn't hurt town as much as normal - so it's not such an issue this time around for people bringing it up.



Why do you not think it could be SvS?



Can you reference people by their name? Though I know you mean Tom.



I haven't come to a strong enough conclusion to send anyone away based on posts yet, so I would choose Forever Zero for not posting in the game yet up to this point.



Can you point out what parts you feel are controlling, as you put it?



Help with reads, comparing to past games. Also everyones regular names are all in my head since i've played with all of ya before, so I can think of you as that. With hydras it's like I have to learn completely new people (by name I mean). I can get people mixed up, thinking hmmm was x in this hydra or that one. Also, if the mod is going to allow self conversation between them, which splits them up anyway in thought, and if players are going to refer to themselves and the other ones separately in the hydra (such as kuz calling tom is better half or someone in a hydra saying back from VLA) - it's all just an idea being pushed that hydras are comprised of separate people - and my reply to that is we should be owed the knowledge of knowing who the separate people are.

And finally, we know who is in each hydra, it's in the OP. It's just A LOT more convenient to have it be in every single post in the information so if we forget and want to look back at it, we don't have to go back to the OP.



Do you talk this mean to everyone you disagree with?

---

I've gotta stop for a lil bit, some skype meetings I have to attend. This is a few pages done, will catch up the rest when done.

We will refuse to answer to anyone who does not refer to us as Meredith Ruby Brandy Meadowsizzle III, Esq.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

In other news, the more MS lurks, the more I think he's scum.

Shoot me and be shot. You've got half ***** reasons for shooting me and we've still got things to say after we get some more information.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Marluxia, how many of your posts have been made by Smoth?

Why do you want to know, ooc?