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The Forest Pokemon Cuts the Competition! Sceptile for Smash Ultimate!

DeltaSceptile

Smash Lord
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Apr 14, 2018
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Sceptile - The Forest Pokemon!

OVERVIEW
For anyone who doesn't already know (which is probably a very small number at this point), Sceptile was very popular during brawl, and even smash 4 speculation. It is one of the most popular grass types there is, as well as the fastest. Out of every grass starter, Sceptile is the best choice for smash, and has some great moveset potential to boot. Also Ash’s only pokemon to really compare with his Charizard in terms of power.

ORIGINS
Sceptile originated in Gen 3 of Pokemon, in Ruby & Sapphire. He is the only grass type outside of Venusaur with a mega evolution. He has had many notable appearances, having been featured as the main pokemon during Ash's adventure through Hoenn, also Ash's pokemon to beat a Darkrai, as well as being featured in Pokken as one of a VERY select few playable pokemon (Seriously, there's only 23 pokes to play as in that game, 21 if you don't count the extra Pikachu and Mewtwo).

MOVESET POTENTIAL
His moveset could pull from several of the attacks he uses throughout the games.
Here's a couple ideas:
Neutral B: Energy Ball. This attack would be chargeable and work similarly to Mewtwo's Shadow Ball.
Forward B: Bullet Seed.
Down B: Detect. Kind of like Sceptile's version of a counter. Could stun opponents if they attack when this is used.
Up B: Leaf Tornado.
Jab: Leaf Blade.
Dash: Quick Attack
F-Tilt: Pound.
D-Tilt: Low Sweep. Lowers the speed of opponents hit for a short burst of time.
U-Tilt: Crush Claw.
F-Smash: X-Scissor.
U-Smash: Iron Tail.
D-Smash: Earthquake or Bulldozer
F-Air: Dual Chop. Two consecutive hits that deal low damage with ok knockback.
D-Air: Slam. Sceptile's spike.
B-Air: Aerial Ace
N-Air: Dragon Claw
U-Air: False Swipe
Final Smash: Mega Sceptile + either Dragon Pulse or Frenzy Plant.
Grab Hit: Fury Cutter
B-Throw: Cut
U-Throw: Seed Bomb
F-Throw: Throat Chop
D-Throw: Giga Drain

WHY SCEPTILE?
Sceptile's evolutionary line is the only hoenn starter line not to ever be featured in a smash game, and Ultimate can finally be his time. Out of all 807 Pokemon, he is definitely in the top 5 most likely to happen this time, due to the ballot being pretty much the base for this game. Gen 3 has gotten basically no representation in smash, not even getting a stage, and who better to fill the lack of representation than Sceptile?


UPDATE: ALTERNATE COLORS!

PROS AND CONS
+ The Smash Ballot could've finally put him in. EDIT: it has been confirmed by Sakurai in the famitsu column that in fact, he has been using the ballot. More power to one of our favorite reptiles!
+ Unique moveset potential compared to Blaziken (Who would essentially be a Fox clone with less speed and Cptn. Falcon strength) and Gardevoir (who, let's face it, would control like Mewtwo)
+ Absolutely no playable/stage representation of Hoenn.
+ He's never been in the background or featured as a pokeball, which could help his chances if sakurai chooses to keep Blaziken as a background element, and Gardevoir as a pokeball.

+ He is heavily marketed in the TCG, with the newest Celestial Storm theme decks, which further cements that the pokemon company won’t get rid of him.
+ Lycanroc is the only SM pokemon to get heavy marketing, which further reduces his competition.
- Gamefreak/The Pokemon Company might've given Sakurai a newer pokemon instead of what fans want.
Current Amount: 31

1-DeltaSceptile
2-Dogtooth
3-Zinith
4-lightdrago
5-Malkior7
6-Gameguy1996
7-Idon
8-Fane
9-SuperSceptile15
10-SamDunk
11-RandomAce
12-Spatman
13-Aeon Lupin
14-Crap-Zapper
15-Standlord
16-LYD
17-ToilerMoiler
18-smashingDoug
19-AlphaSSB
20-FooltheFlames
21-The Legendary Beast
22-Masonomace
23-UtopianPoyzin
24-NintenEdgyMan
25-maf91186
26-CardStealer1
27-SmashBro99
28-KingTorra
29-JokalJackal
30-KieRanaRan
31-Joinallthreacs.smash

OVERALL CHANCE/SUMMARY
The pokemon company keeps him around over others, and he is still marketed from the TCG. He is one of IF NOT the most wanted pokemon for smash and has been for at least 6 years. Has unique moveset potential, which is something Sakurai loves (literally the only reason Chrom wasn’t in smash 4). He obviously would’ve been the number one pokemon in the ballot, and had definitely the biggest push for playable back then. Overall, I’m giving him a 35% chance, as he has a huge fan base and is still marketed, but as I have said previously, the pokemon company is the only thing he has in his way, as they tend to stick to flavor of the month mons for smash. Also something to consider is that there might not be a new pokemon. But hey, we can still hope.

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Malkior7

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I thought Sceptile had a thread already or at least I thought I he was a fairly popular choice for Pokemon rep for Brawl and Smash 4
 

DeltaSceptile

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I thought Sceptile had a thread already or at least I thought I he was a fairly popular choice for Pokemon rep for Brawl and Smash 4
Unfortunately no, though you're right. He was popular for smash 4 and brawl speculation. Should I add you to the list of supporters?
 
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NintenRob

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Strange how this didn't exist yet.


In a perfect world I'd love Sceptile, but I think priority right should be a non-starter from Gen 7.
 

DeltaSceptile

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I thought this existed already too.
Well, there were tons of movesets done for the last sceptile thread, for smash 4. so if you want some ideas, check it out:
Yeah, it actually surprised me it didn't, but now that it does, you wanna join the support?
 

Malkior7

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Unfortunately no, though you're right. He was popular for smash 4 and brawl speculation. Should I add you to the list of supporters?
Oh absolutely add me. I honestly never cared for any of the Pokemon reps that much outside Pichu and Squirtle (both of which have returned) Sceptile was one of my top pics for Pokemon rep.
 

Gameguy1996

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Add me to the support list. I liked Ash's Sceptile in the anime and I used Sceptile on my Pokemon Omega Ruby team.
 

Idon

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I've no nostalgia for him. I love him purely because he was sick in Pokken.
Count me in.
 

Fane

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I've always wanted Sceptile in! Count me in here.

Hoping that if the don't incorporate a Gen 7 Pokemon that Sceptile gets put in instead. I'm very certain he did well in the ballot due to OR/AS and his new Mega form.
 

SirCamp

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Sceptile is an interesting case. He was super popular for a while, I think largely because he (and Gardevoir for that matter) happened to be quite relevant around the time of the ballot. Gen 3 had just gotten remakes, both Sceptile and Gardevoir got mega evolutions, both were set to appear in Pokken Tournament, and in Sceptile's case there was a perceived need to fill in a gap to get all three starter types (on Gardevoir's end she also got the fairy type relatively recently). This made Sceptile seem to be a very good candidate, but as we all know that didn't lead to his inclusion in Smash 4.

However, it seems that the ballot results may well have largely been meant for Ultimate. So while Sceptile is somewhat forgotten, or at least perhaps written off as unlikely (I feel there is a sense of he had his chance and didn't make it), he may well be more likely than we give him credit for. Because a good showing on the ballot does nothing if not increase a character's chances for Ultimate, and Sceptile likely fared very well for the previously stated reasons. Particularly for a Pokemon, an arena in which I think it might be difficult to truly stand out in. And the idea that he had his chance already is based on the assumption that the ballot would have influenced Smash 4 DLC, which tbh I very much doubt (the turn around would have been way too quick for that).

The only caveat I have here is that the team may well have seen his results and, knowing that the ballot was largely for Ultimate, may have realized his popularity was a bit fleeting compared to some other popular picks and decided he wasn't a good fit. So who really knows. I do think people have written him off this go around, and I'm starting to think that might have been a poor choice. Sceptile may indeed have a chance. Or perhaps that Gardevoir leak is the truth instead. We'll have to wait to find out!

For the record, I will say I think both would be great picks.
 

DeltaSceptile

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Add me to the support list. I liked Ash's Sceptile in the anime and I used Sceptile on my Pokemon Omega Ruby team.
I've no nostalgia for him. I love him purely because he was sick in Pokken.
Count me in.
I've always wanted Sceptile in! Count me in here.

Hoping that if the don't incorporate a Gen 7 Pokemon that Sceptile gets put in instead. I'm very certain he did well in the ballot due to OR/AS and his new Mega form.
Please put me in the support list. I don't think his chances are very good, but I would be absolutely ecstatic if he made it in.
List has been updated.
 

SamDunk

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I support him. Of course I'd love for him to have a unique moveset, but one possibility I've never seen discussed is that he could be an Echo for Greninja.
 

PeridotGX

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I'd love to see him in (He's even my Pokken main), but I can't see it happening. Still support, but I don't expect him.

I support him. Of course I'd love for him to have a unique moveset, but one possibility I've never seen discussed is that he could be an Echo for Greninja.
...how?
 

SamDunk

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I'd love to see him in (He's even my Pokken main), but I can't see it happening. Still support, but I don't expect him.



...how?
Water Shuriken/Standard Special=Razor Leaf or Energy Ball
Hydro Pump/Up Special=Quick Attack or Agility
Shadow Sneak/Forward Special=False Swipe
Substitue/Down Special=Detect (or could stay the same)
All Smash Attacks=Sceptile's Leaf Blades instead of Greninja's water blade things

Obviously their designs are totally different, but they're both supposed to be fast, ninja-like characters, so you wouldn't really need to change anything about how Greninja plays, just the animations. In my head, it's a perfect fit.
 

PeridotGX

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Water Shuriken/Standard Special=Razor Leaf or Energy Ball
Hydro Pump/Up Special=Quick Attack or Agility
Shadow Sneak/Forward Special=False Swipe
Substitue/Down Special=Detect (or could stay the same)
All Smash Attacks=Sceptile's Leaf Blades instead of Greninja's water blade things

Obviously their designs are totally different, but they're both supposed to be fast, ninja-like characters, so you wouldn't really need to change anything about how Greninja plays, just the animations. In my head, it's a perfect fit.
I support some really out there Echoes (Susie Haltmann for Bowser. Jr, Midbus for Bowser), but that makes no sense. Why go through all that effort to make a popular character an echo, when there are infinitely more easy ideas that are still popular (Blaziken for Falcon, Shadow for Sonic, Dixie for Diddy).
 

SamDunk

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I support some really out there Echoes (Susie Haltmann for Bowser. Jr, Midbus for Bowser), but that makes no sense. Why go through all that effort to make a popular character an echo, when there are infinitely more easy ideas that are still popular (Blaziken for Falcon, Shadow for Sonic, Dixie for Diddy).
Maybe at first glance it seems like an "out there Echo", but when you actually put yourself in Sakurai's shoes and think about what it would be like if he decided to really sit down and make Sceptile a fighter, there's a ton of overlap with Greninja. They're both supposed to be fast and light, they both have blades in their arms (even if Sceptile WAS a unique fighter, his smash attacks would probably have to be pretty identical to Greninja's), and they're roughly the same size and build.

You said it yourself, Sceptile is not likely to make it into this game. His only chance would be if he did really well in the ballot, and even if he did, it'd be much less effort for Sakurai to make him a Greninja Echo than to make him a totally new fighter. That's the whole reason Sakurai has said he includes Echoes/clones at all.
 
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PeridotGX

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Maybe at first glance it seems like an "out there Echo", but when you actually put yourself in Sakurai's shoes and think about what it would be like if he decided to really sit down and make Sceptile a fighter, there's a ton of overlap with Greninja. They're both supposed to be fast and light, they both have blades in their arms (even if Sceptile WAS a unique fighter, his smash attacks would probably have to be pretty identical to Greninja's), and they're roughly the same size and build.

You said it yourself, Sceptile is not likely to make it into this game. His only chance would be if he did really well in the ballot, and even if he did, it'd be much less effort for Sakurai to make him a Greninja Echo than to make him a totally new fighter. That's the whole reason Sakurai has said he includes Echoes/clones at all.
It somewhat works, but it requires so much work it basically defeats the point of echoes. If we were to get a Gen 3 Starter as an echo, why not Blaziken, who fits like a glove over Falcon? Sceptile's my second favorite Pokémon, but it's probably not getting in, especially as an echo.
 

RandomAce

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Damn it, I was about to make a Sceptile support thread!!!

Surprised there wasn’t one until now... add me to the list! Sceptile is my favorite Pokémon tied with my other want.
 

Spatman

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His boat is already sailed, sadly.
It would be a blast to have him playable, but I believe Game Freaks splitted the playable pokemon between Smash and Pokken (leaving aside the most prominent ones: pikachu, charizard, mewtwo and lucario), so I don't expect either Sceptile and Decidueye to be playable.
Count me in as a supporter, even if at this point the whole fact of supporting characters to be in Ultimate seems to me a little pointless
...ok, maybe there will be dlcs, but they will be field for extremely relevant (aka newest) characters and for the new k rools/waluigis, and I don't see Sceptile as nothing of these
 

SamDunk

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It somewhat works, but it requires so much work it basically defeats the point of echoes. If we were to get a Gen 3 Starter as an echo, why not Blaziken, who fits like a glove over Falcon? Sceptile's my second favorite Pokémon, but it's probably not getting in, especially as an echo.
I personally don't believe we're going to be getting any separate-franchise Echoes, but that's just me. Also, while Blaziken is a very popular Pokemon, he wasn't nearly as popular a choice for Smash 4 was Sceptile was, meaning Sceptile probably did better in the ballot. If Sceptile did well in the ballot, Sakurai isn't going to interpret that as "a fan demand for a Gen 3 starter", he's going to see it as "a fan demand for Sceptile". And if he sees enough fan demand for a character that would play so similarly to Greninja, he'd probably want to take the easier path and make him an Echo.
 

Aeon Lupin

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His boat is already sailed, sadly.
It would be a blast to have him playable, but I believe Game Freaks splitted the playable pokemon between Smash and Pokken (leaving aside the most prominent ones: pikachu, charizard, mewtwo and lucario), so I don't expect either Sceptile and Decidueye to be playable.
Count me in as a supporter, even if at this point the whole fact of supporting characters to be in Ultimate seems to me a little pointless
...ok, maybe there will be dlcs, but they will be field for extremely relevant (aka newest) characters and for the new k rools/waluigis, and I don't see Sceptile as nothing of these
The roster was finalized at the end of 2015, when Sceptile was at his most popular amongst the fanbase. He's not a sure thing, but I wouldn't count him out.
 

Spatman

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The roster was finalized at the end of 2015, when Sceptile was at his most popular amongst the fanbase. He's not a sure thing, but I wouldn't count him out.
Yes, that's a fact. But popularity isn't the only factor and we don't know how much he is/was popular in comparison to other popular picks.
Let's see...
 

Aeon Lupin

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That mean you wanna join us in support?
Sure. I'm not a big fan of Sceptile, but it would be cool to have.

Yes, that's a fact. But popularity isn't the only factor and we don't know how much he is/was popular in comparison to other popular picks.
Let's see...
You have to remember that the popular picks like Decidueye and Incineroar (the front runners at this point) didn't exist to the public eye back in 2015. Gamefreak might've told Sakurai to put a gen 7 Pokemon in instead of a known one at the time, but then they wouldn't have been chosen through popularity.
 

DeltaSceptile

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You have to remember that the popular picks like Decidueye and Incineroar (the front runners at this point) didn't exist to the public eye back in 2015. Gamefreak might've told Sakurai to put a gen 7 Pokemon in instead of a known one at the time, but then they wouldn't have been chosen through popularity.
Exactly. The only deciding factor for Sceptile is whether or not Sakurai got to choose which one got in. It’s actually looking pretty good right now, seeing as gen 7 was released late 2016, which significantly ups Sceptile’s chances seeing as many gen 7 pokemon may not have even had designs yet. The other advantage Sceptile has right now is that Smash Ultimate couldn’t be used as marketing for Sun and Moon due to how late it is releasing comparatively. This helps Sceptile, as the only reason Greninja was in Smash 4 is that Sakurai wanted to get us a pokemon, and all he was given was the soon-to-be flavor of the month pokemon. Those releases were closer to smash 4 than even the ultra remakes of SM to smash ultimate.
 
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Gameguy1996

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Exactly. The only deciding factor for Sceptile is whether or not Sakurai got to choose which one got in. It’s actually looking pretty good right now, seeing as gen 7 was released late 2016, which significantly ups Sceptile’s chances seeing as many gen 7 pokemon may not have even had designs yet. The other advantage Sceptile has right now is that Smash Ultimate couldn’t be used as marketing for Sun and Moon due to how late it is releasing comparatively. This helps Sceptile, as the only reason Greninja was in Smash 4 is that Sakurai wanted to get us a pokemon, and all he was given was the soon-to-be flavor of the month pokemon. Those releases were closer to smash 4 than even the ultra remakes of SM to smash ultimate.
I'm sure most of the designs for Gen 7 where finished by then due to Gamefreak spending about three years making Gen 7 or it could have been another case where Sakurai and his staff picked based on drawings. Greninja, Incineroar and Sceptile would be a nice balance if they end up going for the stater triangle and if Sakurai revisits Sceptile as DLC if he does not find a suitable Gen 8 fighter.
 
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DeltaSceptile

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Sceptile has only one obstacle left, and that’s the pokemon company’s reliance on newer things, even if it means less quality.
 
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ToilerMoiler

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Personally I wouldn't want Smash and Pokken to share much too more of the same characters, but you can count me in for extra support! As someone who started in Hoenn, I would be stoked for a gen 3 representative and I think Sceptile stands out really well among them
 

AlphaSSB

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Finally found this thread. May want to make sure that this gets posted in the directory.

Anyways, Sceptile's my favorite Pokemon, seeing as Treecko was my first. I think he has a lot of potential in Smash, and I think how he was implemented in Pokken Tournament perfectly shows how he would play in Smash. In Pokken, you can place several traps on the ground that the opponent must try and weave through. If they fail, than you capitalize on it. In Smash, I see Sceptile being translated into a quick bait-and-punish character, with speed between Greninja's and Fox's. I'll probably make a moveset for him built around his would-be bait and punish playstyle sometime in the future.

As for Sceptile's chances, I thin the best he has going for him is the Ballot. With Charizard on his own and Greninja as the Gen VI newcomer, Smash lacked a fully evolved grass type to complete the starter trio. Although Sakurai doesn't go looking for those types of things, Sceptile was on the forefront of many people's minds during the Ballot thanks to the release of ORAS, and if they wanted a grass starter, many felt Sceptile had the best shot. We're almost certainly going to get a Gen VII Pokemon this Smash, but if Sakurai decides to add a fan-favorite Pokemon from the Ballot, than I feel Sceptile may be the frontrunner.

Regardless, I've wanted him in Smash for years now. He's kinda my 'dream Pokemon' pick. Just sucks because I don't really see him getting in unless he exceeded in the Ballot, or if Sakurai specifically wants a Pokemon from each generation to be playable. Even went as far as to make some recolors for him. They're all based around other grass type Pokemon, though some more loosely compared to others. Try to guess them all!

Sceptile Recolors-min.png
 
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smashingDoug

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If we get Incineroar we’ll still be at a solo water and fire starter.

Oars came out in 2014 roster was finalized in 2015, Sceptile maybe a Untalked about newcomer
 
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ToilerMoiler

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If we get Incineroar we’ll still be at a solo water and fire starter.

Oars came out in 2014 roster was finalized in 2015, Sceptile maybe a Untalked about newcomer
I could definitely see that happening. I'm sure Sceptile did just fine in the ballot days, also ironic that ORAS and Smash Wii U released the same day. RIP to everyone's wallet that day
 
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