The First Party general support thread

[smashkirby]

I finally got around to make a FP V2 mock-up with choices I want. Since it's exclusively first-party, I figured I'd share it here, too.

View attachment 263878

Now THIS I would buy in a heartbeat.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

I finally got around to make a FP V2 mock-up with choices I want. Since it's exclusively first-party, I figured I'd share it here, too.

View attachment 263878

This pass has potential here! I like it!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This pass has potential here! I like it!

This picture is gold lol!

 

[Calamitas]

10/10 would buy.

Though realistically speaking I'd expect the order to be flipped as the pattern is usually the more mainstream characters first.

Yeah, that's probably true. Waluigi and Dixie Kong would be a good way to front-load the pass, but I feel the rest could probably stay the same. Waluigi in particular I feel is probably the one first-party character that could serve as as big of a shocking starter to the pass as Joker was for the first one.

 

[fogbadge]

why does everyone love waluigi more than toad?

dont answer that

 

[RetrogamerMax]

why does everyone love waluigi more than toad?

dont answer that

1. He is full of personality not saying Toad isn't.

2. He is bizarre as hell sometimes.

3. He is kind of a like 4th Mario being a plumber like Mario, Luigi, and Wario.

4. He is full of meme material.

 

[GoodGrief741]

why does everyone love waluigi more than toad?

dont answer that

I love them equally but Waluigi brings the added bonus of proving ATs don't disconfirm which I guess for many first-party fans is a very sore part of Smash speculation. Plus people rally behind a winner and, fair or not, Waluigi's more massive appeal makes many regard him as the likeliest AT promotion, which leads to a virtuous circle of support -> likelihood -> support.

 

[fogbadge]

i said dont answer, now im gonna have to do this

1. He is full of personality not saying Toad isn't.

2. He is bizarre as hell sometimes.

3. He is kind of a like 4th Mario being a plumber like Mario, Luigi, and Wario.

4. He is full of meme material.

1. the entire mario franchise is full of personality

2. again its the mario franchise everything is bizarre

3. hes not really, he only wears overalls cause hes meant to be an evil version of luigi, toad joins up with mario and luigi far more

4. the internet can make memes out of anything

I love them equally but Waluigi brings the added bonus of proving ATs don't disconfirm which I guess for many first-party fans is a very sore part of Smash speculation. Plus people rally behind a winner and, fair or not, Waluigi's more massive appeal makes many regard him as the likeliest AT promotion, which leads to a virtuous circle of support -> likelihood -> support.

well thats the thing is it just cause he keeps getting turned into a AT? theres not nearly as much of a fuss when hes left out of other games, it seems to me people only support him cause its devolved into a meme at this point.

also word of advice for everyone, just a side bar to this, never support a character just cause you think theyre likely, thats how you get burned in this support game

 

[UserKev]

Honestly, Waluigi just reeks of exciting moveset potential while Toad is just.. Toad. While you can make Toad work as a fighter, he just feels to lack any general interest.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Honestly, Waluigi just reeks of exciting moveset potential while Toad is just.. Toad. While you can make Toad work as a fighter, he just feels to lack any general interest.

True. But Toad is so iconic it's kind of ridiculous he isn't in but Piranha Plant is. I do think Plant is iconic too and he is fun to play as, but Toad is more iconic and I kind of feel Plant stole his slot in a way even through there is no such thing as: "Said character took that character's slot". He is the only character in the roster I feel that way about.

 

[fogbadge]

Honestly, Waluigi just reeks of exciting moveset potential while Toad is just.. Toad. While you can make Toad work as a fighter, he just feels to lack any general interest.

heres the thing, just about every game waluigi is playable in, so is toad. so any moveset potential he has he shares with toad weho due to also appearing in the main games and has a few spin offs of his own means theres actually more thing hes can do than waluigi

if you dont like toad thats fine as is if you just like waluigi, but saying waluigi has more moveset potential is just ignoring how things are

 

[UserKev]

heres the thing, just about every game waluigi is playable in, so is toad. so any moveset potential he has he shares with toad weho due to also appearing in the main games and has a few spin offs of his own means theres actually more thing hes can do than waluigi

if you dont like toad thats fine as is if you just like waluigi, but saying waluigi has more moveset potential is just ignoring how things are

Toad is my go to character in Mario Kart, dude. I think Waluigi has a more exciting and intriguing personality than Toad tho. Waluigi is great without memes.

 

[Dorayaki]

Toad is my go to character in Mario Kart, dude. I think Waluigi has a more exciting and intriguing personality than Toad tho. Waluigi is great without memes.

The case would be that moveset references weigh much in Smash bros, while personality is seldom known to be a factor for fighter choices.

And the fact Nintendo never tried to ultilize Waluigi's personality in more games isn't a news. He'd really suit in RPGs or 3D platformers as a wacky villain, and perhaps get some moveset idea as an indirect result.

It's weird, cause we have other cases like Agithat of Zelda series whose persnality helped her promotion in the end.

 

[fogbadge]

Toad is my go to character in Mario Kart, dude. I think Waluigi has a more exciting and intriguing personality than Toad tho. Waluigi is great without memes.

thats reasonable

i find everything is better without memes but that seems to be solely me

 

[Oddball]

i find everything is better without memes but that seems to be solely me

I used to think memes were pronounced "Me-Mes" as in "Look at Me! Look at me! I can tell the same joke everyone else is telling!"

I'm with you on thinking Waluigi is overrated. Until they actually do anything with the character, he's just weird spin-off guy. I'd much rather have Toad. Now I DO think Waluigi has some potential. He'd be a nice recurring joke boss along with Wario in some Paper Mario or Mario RPG game. Think of them like Mario's Team Rocket (anime version.)

 

[fogbadge]

I used to think memes were pronounced "Me-Mes" as in "Look at Me! Look at me! I can tell the same joke everyone else is telling!"

I'm with you on thinking Waluigi is overrated. Until they actually do anything with the character, he's just weird spin-off guy. I'd much rather have Toad. Now I DO think Waluigi has some potential. He'd be a nice recurring joke boss along with Wario in some Paper Mario or Mario RPG game. Think of them like Mario's Team Rocket (anime version.)

better give them piranha plant in place of meowth

 

[Nazyrus]

I haven't been here for a long while for obvious reasons but after Byleth finally debunking the "pure 3rd party pass" nonsense, I feel like I'm coming back to the first party support. My 1st party most wanted right now would be Isaac, but I have to say I pray for Skull kid once again even tho I know how they like to treat the zelda franchise in this game -mumble mumble in pain- they most likely, at best, will just add some BOTW2 character instead, when that game comes out…

Anyways here is hoping we get more 1st party goodness!

 

[NintenRob]

What's truly baffling, people still act like its still going to be Third Party only. Like learn your lesson already.

 

[Nazyrus]

What's truly baffling, people still act like its still going to be Third Party only. Like learn your lesson already.

Even Imran himself made fun of that people, it's so silly lol

 

[fogbadge]

What's truly baffling, people still act like its still going to be Third Party only. Like learn your lesson already.

i would imagine its cuase they see byleth as due to sakurai's bias which makes them the exception to the "rule"

 

[Deleted member]

i would imagine its cuase they see byleth as due to sakurai's bias which makes them the exception to the "rule"

I think not.

Tbh yeah, there might be a bit of Sakurai bias, though isn't that quite common anyways in some gaming circles?

 

[Guynamednelson]

What's truly baffling, people still act like its still going to be Third Party only. Like learn your lesson already.

"LOL you think we'd get Isaac, Geno, and an RH rep just because of Ridley and K. Rool! Also, we had four third parties last time, so we have to get six ones that are more expensive."

 

[osby]

i would imagine its cuase they see byleth as due to sakurai's bias which makes them the exception to the "rule"

Nintendo picked Byleth, so using "Sakurai bias" as an argument makes no sense in this situation.

 

[fogbadge]

I think not.

Tbh yeah, there might be a bit of Sakurai bias, though isn't that quite common anyways in some gaming circles?

well i would say he is well with in rights to do so, with all the hard work he does and the facts that he cant comment on anything without people some how thinking it relates to smash i think letting him put in some characters of his own choosing

Nintendo picked Byleth, so using "Sakurai bias" as an argument makes no sense in this situation.

no, nintendo and sakurai reached the decision together

 

[UserKev]

Haha Each and everyone of you are setting your selves up for massive disappointment. Byleth was selected by Nintendo and even so on. Maybe first party is still in the running but not first party characters you actually want.

Skull Kid, Isaac or Lyn, etc are incredibly unlikely to happen. But I WANT to be wrong.

 

[Nazyrus]

i would imagine its cuase they see byleth as due to sakurai's bias which makes them the exception to the "rule"

I think not.

Tbh yeah, there might be a bit of Sakurai bias, though isn't that quite common anyways in some gaming circles?

It is already confirmed to not be sakurai bias. They said this was decided by nintendo and so will pass 2. Nintendo wanted to shill their game while it was still in development. People need to give salurai a break tbh lol

i would imagine its cuase they see byleth as due to sakurai's bias which makes them the exception to the "rule"

I think not.

Tbh yeah, there might be a bit of Sakurai bias, though isn't that quite common anyways in some gaming circles?

It is already confirmed to not be sakurai bias. They said this was decided by nintendo and so will pass 2. Nintendo wanted to shill their game while it was still in development. People need to give salurai a break tbh lol

Maybe first party is still in the running but not first party characters you actually want.

Ok person from the future / that is illuminated to know what nintendo actually is planning.... lol

 

[fogbadge]

It is already confirmed to not be sakurai bias. They said this was decided by nintendo and so will pass 2. Nintendo wanted to shill their game while it was still in development. People need to give salurai a break tbh lol

actually what he said was nintendo proposed the characters but sakurai had the final say, sakurai isnt just doing what ever nintendo tells him to do. so as with every other character in smash the second fighters pass will all be characters he is ok with on some level. you may also notice in another one of my posts i said sakurai was well within his rights to be bias with the character choices and that i was actually saying that people need to give sakurai a break

 

[Lenidem]

actually what he said was nintendo proposed the characters but sakurai had the final say, sakurai isnt just doing what ever nintendo tells him to do. so as with every other character in smash the second fighters pass will all be characters he is ok with on some level. you may also notice in another one of my posts i said sakurai was well within his rights to be bias with the character choices and that i was actually saying that people need to give sakurai a break

Well, we can be happy or disappointed about a character whether Sakurai chose it or not. He has the right to choose, but it's also a responsibility.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, we can be happy or disappointed about a character whether Sakurai chose it or not. He has the right to choose, but it's also a responsibility.

who do you mean a responsibility?

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Honestly I'm losing hope for first-parties in Ultimate -- the window for a lot of the new Switch IP's has passed (or they have been spirited away).

I'd have loved to see a Daemon X Machina character that behaves like a reverse Rosalina (a weak, easily killed pilot, with a powerful mecha dependant on the pilot's inputs), but Spirit Board took that chance away.

My first party eggs are all in Waluigi's basket now, unless a Gen 4 pokemon remake happens by 2021 (Dixie and Bandana Dee are tertiary side characters without Waluigi's pop culture presence, and Golden Sun is dead).

 

[Lenidem]

who do you mean a responsibility?

To make good choices, of course, and not only for the roster: the quality of the game depends on the director's decisions.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

actually what he said was nintendo proposed the characters but sakurai had the final say, sakurai isnt just doing what ever nintendo tells him to do. so as with every other character in smash the second fighters pass will all be characters he is ok with on some level. you may also notice in another one of my posts i said sakurai was well within his rights to be bias with the character choices and that i was actually saying that people need to give sakurai a break

The implication from Sakurai in his Famitsu articles seems to be that he was reluctant to add another FE character at Nintendo's behest. Reasoning such as 'I think there are already enough FE sword wielders in Smash' doesn't seem to be reason enough for Sakurai to be able to Veto a character.

It seems to be that unless Sakurai can convince Nintendo he is legitimately unable to get a character to fit into Smash, he pretty much has to go along with their descision.

Does this mean that FPv2 will be full of shill characters? No. FPv1 had exactly 1 shill character, and even then Sakurai and his team did their best to set that character apart and make them special.

But it also means that Sakurai can't add 6 fanservice characters just because he wants to; there has to be a legitimate reason for Nintendo corporate to want to promote that character for smash.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Honestly I'm losing hope for first-parties in Ultimate -- the window for a lot of the new Switch IP's has passed (or they have been spirited away).

I'd have loved to see a Daemon X Machina character that behaves like a reverse Rosalina (a weak, easily killed pilot, with a powerful mecha dependant on the pilot's inputs), but Spirit Board took that chance away.

My first party eggs are all in Waluigi's basket now, unless a Gen 4 pokemon remake happens by 2021 (Dixie and Bandana Dee are tertiary side characters without Waluigi's pop culture presence, and Golden Sun is dead).

Dixie starred in her own game, which was a main series DKC game, and has been playable for more games in the SNES trilogy than DK. (Literally one of the first female Nintendo characters to title her own game alongside Samus). Super Smash Bros games are literally the only game appearances she's had where she isn't playable in some capacity. She's also made appearances in several Mario spin offs like Mario Baseball and Hoops 3 on 3. I'd hardly call that resume tertiary side.

 

[fogbadge]

To make good choices, of course, and not only for the roster: the quality of the game depends on the director's decisions.

whos a good choice is always gonna be a matter of opinion, i have a few characters who i think were terrible choices but other think are good. but im not sure about the word responsibility kind of makes it sound like he owes us something. the games already a success so hes good as far as that goes

The implication from Sakurai in his Famitsu articles seems to be that he was reluctant to add another FE character at Nintendo's behest. Reasoning such as 'I think there are already enough FE sword wielders in Smash' doesn't seem to be reason enough for Sakurai to be able to Veto a character.

It seems to be that unless Sakurai can convince Nintendo he is legitimately unable to get a character to fit into Smash, he pretty much has to go along with their descision.

Does this mean that FPv2 will be full of shill characters? No. FPv1 had exactly 1 shill character, and even then Sakurai and his team did their best to set that character apart and make them special.

But it also means that Sakurai can't add 6 fanservice characters just because he wants to; there has to be a legitimate reason for Nintendo corporate to want to promote that character for smash.

sakurai said this before when he added in corrin and carried on adding FE characters anyway, sakurai also said that he a nintendo reach the decision together and the idea that nintendo are forcing him to this doesnt have much evidence nor does it really make sense it seems to stem from the fact that he said nintendo made the choices but at no point did he actually say nintendo forced him to go with their choices. also why would nintendo choose only one "shill" pick and why FE over all their other franchise even with many of the big franchises had new games on the way or out?

 

[Lenidem]

whos a good choice is always gonna be a matter of opinion, i have a few characters who i think were terrible choices but other think are good. but im not sure about the word responsibility kind of makes it sound like he owes us something. the games already a success so hes good as far as that goes



sakurai said this before when he added in corrin and carried on adding FE characters anyway, sakurai also said that he a nintendo reach the decision together and the idea that nintendo are forcing him to this doesnt have much evidence nor does it really make sense it seems to stem from the fact that he said nintendo made the choices but at no point did he actually say nintendo forced him to go with their choices. also why would nintendo choose only one "shill" pick and why FE over all their other franchise even with many of the big franchises had new games on the way or out?

Of course, 'opinion'. I'm not saying mine is better than anyone's. What I want to say is, if Sakurai starts making 'bad' choices resulting in disappointment, it will be on him (and/or on Nintendo actually), as much as 'good' choices and the happiness it brings. 'It's his choice' is not a sentence that puts an end to the discussion.

 

[fogbadge]

Of course, 'opinion'. I'm not saying mine is better than anyone's. What I want to say is, if Sakurai starts making 'bad' choices resulting in disappointment, it will be on him (and/or on Nintendo actually), as much as 'good' choices and the happiness it brings. 'It's his choice' is not a sentence that puts an end to the discussion.

well most have the characters have had more positive than negative so i think hes ok for now

 

[Perkilator]

I know the Vol. 2 roster was already decided, but I’d like to ask something. If COVID-19 affects Vol. 2 in any way, do you think we’ll get the occasional Nintendo character OUTSIDE the pass while the Vol. 2 Challenger Packs are in development? As in, no specific stage for that outside character and MAYBE a bit of music?

 

[fogbadge]

I know the Vol. 2 roster was already decided, but I’d like to ask something. If COVID-19 affects Vol. 2 in any way, do you think we’ll get the occasional Nintendo character OUTSIDE the pass while the Vol. 2 Challenger Packs are in development? As in, no specific stage for that outside character and MAYBE a bit of music?

no, because if its delaying development of the pass i dont fancy the chances of them making a few extra characters to tide us over. this is of course on the assumption that the pandemic is affecting more than just the licencing

 

[Guynamednelson]

I know the Vol. 2 roster was already decided, but I’d like to ask something. If COVID-19 affects Vol. 2 in any way, do you think we’ll get the occasional Nintendo character OUTSIDE the pass while the Vol. 2 Challenger Packs are in development? As in, no specific stage for that outside character and MAYBE a bit of music?

I think it'd be more likely that if we're getting more first-parties because of COVID-19, they'll replace third-parties for the sake of Sakurai not having to travel to various places.

 

[NintenRob]

Yeah it doesn't really make sense. The pass is getting delayed because workers are unable to come in due to coronavirus. If they can't work on the pass, they probably can't work more.