The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[N. Onymous]

I know exactly how you feel. I am very disappointed in Nintendo.

Yeah, which could take like 6 years... and if it doesn't happen again? I guess another decade of wait is nothing right?...

Truth is, I could die before Lip is in Smash.

Well, don't give up hope yet. I'll admit it doesn't look good, but there's still that tiny chance we'll get everything we want.

 

[Jyl]

I know exactly how you feel. I am very disappointed in Nintendo.



Yeah, which could take like 6 years... and if it doesn't happen again? I guess another decade of wait is nothing right?...

Truth is, I could die before Lip is in Smash.

I see Lip's chance for next game better than ever honestly

 

[GoodGrief741]

Truth is, I could die before Lip is in Smash.

I hope this isn’t serious, but if it is, stay strong, friend.

 

[N. Onymous]

I hope this isn’t serious, but if it is, stay strong, friend.

He's just being dramatic. Kind of like a certain someone else was earlier in this thread. Hmm.

 

[Princess_Ashley]

I hope this isn’t serious, but if it is, stay strong, friend.

Sorry to worry you. It's just that we never know what might happen.

 

[GoodGrief741]

He's just being dramatic. Kind of like a certain someone else was earlier in this thread. Hmm.

You mean me? Was I being dramatic? Or am I just missing the point?

 

[Jyl]

You mean me? Was I being dramatic? Or am I just missing the point?

No I think someone else who doesn't post here anymore.
Anyways whats happened happened. I'm not too happy but that's because I personally dislike the Persona series. Honestly Jack Frost would have been cooler (pun not intended).
It doesn't necessarily hurt Lip's chance but yeah. I think many casual fans are happy but just once, just once in our life, I want us retro fans to get what we want. Please.

 

[N. Onymous]

You mean me? Was I being dramatic? Or am I just missing the point?

I was talking about me, hahah.

It doesn't necessarily hurt Lip's chance but yeah. I think many casual fans are happy but just once, just once in our life, I want us retro fans to get what we want. Please.

Fingers crossed as always, ladies and gentlemen. Fingers crossed as always.

 

[Jyl]

Does anybody here yet know the unlocking conditions for Lip's Mii costume?

Can't believe we missed this post, sorry man.
I think it's in the World of Light but I'm not 100%.

 

[N. Onymous]

I remember hearing the dress is a default item but the wig has to be unlocked.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Lip is being rated for dlc in the rare their chances thread, show your support.

 

[N. Onymous]

OK, here's my two cents. People are...not being kind to her in that thread. "there are better cute girl characters to add to smash KAT AND ANA x5 KAT AND ANA x5 KAT AND ANA x5" Well I guess I know what side your bread is buttered on, eh?

So many people seem to think spirits are a hard deconfirm. Let us have our hope, people!

 

[SchAlternate]

Blegh, I forgot how exhaustive those RTC threads are to read. I seriously can't stand people thinking each character added must fit a niche. "We need a character that is A", "We already have enough characters that are B", "Sakurai said[citation needed] that we won't get characters that C". As if fans of those characters wanted them solely to fill some arbitrary checklist, rather than out of love of the character or game of origin.

As for Lip in Smash... again, I wouldn't personally keep my hopes up, but there's no need to be outright pessimistic, either. In a perfect world, I think the best course of action is to raise awareness of the series and request for it to be resurrected, so then get Lip and the rest of cast into the eyes of the western gaming community, and then, with a newfound fanbase, there'd likely be a more poignant demand for the character in Smash, If the next Smash happens in 6 years or more, that's more than enough time to help Lip gain some long awaited attention. It worked for Ridley and King K. Rool through the Ridley Revolution and Kremling Kampaigner movements, maybe with some more patience, a certain fairy can have her time in the greenlight...

... ah well. In the meantime, Ultimate is still looking amazing. Can't wait to see who could be added next for DLC, even if it isn't someone I particularly care about; I just want more people to be happy with the game like me. And, judging by what Reggie said, we should get ready to expect the unexpected.

 

[N. Onymous]

As for Lip in Smash... again, I wouldn't personally keep my hopes up, but there's no need to be outright pessimistic, either. In a perfect world, I think the best course of action is to raise awareness of the series and request for it to be resurrected, so then get Lip and the rest of cast into the eyes of the western gaming community, and then, with a newfound fanbase, there'd likely be a more poignant demand for the character in Smash, If the next Smash happens in 6 years or more, that's more than enough time to help Lip gain some long awaited attention. It worked for Ridley and King K. Rool through the Ridley Revolution and Kremling Kampaigner movements, maybe with some more patience, a certain fairy can have her time in the greenlight...

Which is exactly why I started the Bring Lip Back petition. (remember to sign here if you haven't already!) It's a good way to raise awareness, I feel.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel this only helps Lip's chances. She's unexpected due to her obscurity. Though it is possible we could get all 3rd parties, when it comes to 1st parties, she's not a highly anticipated character by a large amount of the fanbase.

 

[MasterRosie]

Call me crazy or nuts or whatever, but I think Lip may happen in Ultimate.
People who are still trying to apply logic and reasoning to Smash truly do not know Sakurai.
Sakurai doesn’t do the most ‘logical’ and ‘reasonable’ options out there. I mean, let’s take a look at some of things this man has done:
- Made working movesets for Jigglypuff, Game and Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt Dog, and now a damn Piranha Plant.
- Put Cloud into Smash 4 and now Joker despite barely having anything to do with Nintendo. (I know that SEGA owns Atlus now, but still. No one saw Joker coming.)
- Shrunk Ridley down and made him playable for the constant Ridley memers
- Put in Isabelle despite her having little to no fighting experience in AC, just like Villager
- Chrom is playable character, a Mii, and is still in Robin’s FS and victory screen. And it hasn’t been patched out or anything on the day one patch. Same thing could apply to Lip’s Stick, the item. Who’s to say Lip can’t hold a stick while it still being an item? Her Mii outfit proves this.
- Managed to make every character in Smash history return bringing us up to 74 fighters and yet, still counting.
- I heavily doubt some PNGs of characters mean a thing in terms of likeliness. If it does, color me shocked.

Point is, logic and reasoning shouldn’t apply to Sakurai here in Ultimate. Now I could be wrong; but I’m running off of what Sakurai has been doing lately, and people just seem to ignore these things for whatever reason and say “This will never happen. Ever.”
(The only one that makes sense right now is Goku’s case. And, no, you know the one I’m talking about. Not the one from Yūyūki.)

 

[N. Onymous]

Exactly. There is absolutely no barrier for Lip being in the game. Not even region exclusivity.

 

[Jyl]

Lip is being rated for dlc in the rare their chances thread, show your support.

Shared my thoughts in the thread.
I just want to say that Lip and her series may be obscure, but she is definitely not unpopular as some people claim. There's definitely dedicated fans and overwhelming support for her. Panel de Pon has a hell alot more fans than many other "retro" series, which is why I still believe Lip's chances as a "retro" rep is stronger than other potential reps.

 

[N. Onymous]

Outside of good ol' Lippy, the only retro characters who I feel might have a fanbase that's as big or possibly larger are Takamaru and potentially Mike Jones (who unlike Lip is held back by his region-exclusive status--StarTropics was never released in Japan. As nice as it would be to see him, I don't think it's happening).

 

[RileyXY1]

I am a strong believer that Spirits are not deconfirmations. And, I don't think that Mii Fighter costumes are deconfirmations either. Smash 4 had 4 Mii Fighter costumes for characters that are already playable, which were Link, Samus, Fox, and Captain Falcon. The only Mii Fighter costume that I can say is a deconfirmation is Rex, based on Sakurai worded Rex's Mii costume announcement.

 

[N. Onymous]

Smash 4 had 4 Mii Fighter costumes for characters that are already playable, which were Link, Samus, Fox, and Captain Falcon.

And Meta Knight. In fact they revealed Meta Knight's Mii costume before they revealed the actual Meta Knight.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Here is all of the references to Lip in Ultimate with the exception of the song, and her Spirit.

 

[MasterRosie]

View attachment 182452
Here is all of the references to Lip in Ultimate with the exception of the song, and her Spirit.

You forgot Jiggs.

 

[N. Onymous]

The holy trinity. We must guard it with our lives.

 

[Jyl]

I think Sakurai is one of the few developers that even acknowledges Panel de Pon.
We should be thankful for that, although I can't help but be greedy for a bit. Also, I wonder if he's aware Panel de Pon is still fairly popular in Japan?

 

[Luigifan18]

You forgot Jiggs.

How does Jigglypuff reference Panel de Pon? (Like, specifically Panel de Pon, not Pokémon Puzzle League or Pokémon Puzzle Challenge.)

 

[N. Onymous]

How does Jigglypuff reference Panel de Pon? (Like, specifically Panel de Pon, not Pokémon Puzzle League or Pokémon Puzzle Challenge.)

Some people think that the ribbon it has in one of its alternate costumes is a reference to Lip, given its Fairy type. It's had ribbon alts ever since the first game when it was pure Normal-type, though, so I personally doubt it.

 

[Reds94]

Anyone have a good Lip Mii? Also a bit lame you can't change your Mii's size like in the last game. Makes her a bit tall.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Some people think that the ribbon it has in one of its alternate costumes is a reference to Lip, given its Fairy type. It's had ribbon alts ever since the first game when it was pure Normal-type, though, so I personally doubt it.

Its clearly a reference to this Kirby Super Star scrapped ability, there's no ponytail on the ability after all and in the Lip Spirits stage you have a flower on your head for a duration of the match. Jigglypuff's bow alt is used in the stage. Surprised that they referenced the scrapped ability again outside of the item since its been a long time since Sakurai worked on Kirby Super Star, but then again he did bring back the scrapped Ditto in Melee.

 

[MasterRosie]

How does Jigglypuff reference Panel de Pon? (Like, specifically Panel de Pon, not Pokémon Puzzle League or Pokémon Puzzle Challenge.)

It mainly how it has always had a bow alt and it’s rest put a flower on your opponent’s head, very much like the Lip’s Stick item. The fact it’s a fairy and Sakurai designed her off of Kirby makes me believe even more Puff is supposed to resemble PdP, only more subtly than Kirby who straight up turns into a garbage block.

 

[N. Onymous]

I've recently found a bit of evidence that points towards my theory that Panel de Pon was reskinned for being a "girl game" and not because "anime doesn't sell". At least, it was reskinned for being a "girl game" in addition to anime not selling.

It doesn't involve Panel de Pon itself, but rather the third Donkey Kong Country. For the third game in the SNES trilogy, Rareware decided to shift gears a bit and focus on Diddy Kong's girlfriend, Dixie Kong. It wasn't a half-hearted attempt to promote her, either--they went all out. She's front and center on the box art and in promotional artwork, she's the character you start playing the game as, the instruction manual calls her the main character, her name is in the title of the game. Dixie permeated every aspect of Donkey Kong Country 3. There's no way you could possibly try and hide the fact that she was your main character for this one.

But that's just what Nintendo of America tried to do. Commercials for the game promoted, I'd say shilled, Kiddy Kong (a literal infant, remember) far more than Dixie, almost like they were desperately attempting to reassure boys that this wasn't a "girl game" and that playing it wouldn't "make them gay" or whatever schoolkids believed back then. The only in-game footage featured for more than a brief blip showed the player using Kiddy. Announcers proclaimed "Donkey Kong Country 3, starring Kiddy Kong!" in direct defiance of the block letters on the front of the package. When the box was shown at the end of the ad, the game's logo was strategically blurred to hide the fact that the main character was a girl. There's no defending it--it's achingly obvious what they were trying to do. 1990s marketing strategies were everything short of openly sexist, and nobody cared because "video games are for boys."

And if they were that paranoid about a homegrown game made by people who would (hopefully) know what the SNES's target audience would want, where the protagonist is one of exactly four female characters in a huge cast full of men, imagine what they'd think of a Japanese game where the cast is 95% women. Probably gave at least one executive a heart attack.

Fortunately, Nintendo's marketing philosophy isn't that heavily skewed towards one gender anymore (can't say the same for other console manufacturers), but the damage has sadly been done. If only they knew what repercussions that mindset would have, we could have had Panel de Pon RPG by now.

 

[Jyl]

Thanks for the information N. onymous.
As you said, the damage has been done but Nintendo today isn't like that anymore. I mean today there are Nintendo games released in America that are clearly marketed towards girls (Cooking Mama, Style Savvy, etc).
I do however think that PdP being "anime" was one reason it was reskinned. I don't remember the game but there was one game where the box art was redesigned to look more "Western." Needless to say it was an abomination. There's more examples of this, changing of artstyle. And its one reason Fire Emblem was originally never released in the West.

I'll just say we live in a great timeline right now . Japanese/Anime/Girly games are clearly in demand in the West, in part thanks to Operation Rainfall so I'm thankful for that. I admit I don't generally agree with the direction Nintendo is taking lately but I'm thankful that they changed their stance on Japanese/girly games at least.

 

[lordvaati]

Thanks for the information N. onymous.
As you said, the damage has been done but Nintendo today isn't like that anymore. I mean today there are Nintendo games released in America that are clearly marketed towards girls (Cooking Mama, Style Savvy, etc).
I do however think that PdP being "anime" was one reason it was reskinned. I don't remember the game but there was one game where the box art was redesigned to look more "Western." Needless to say it was an abomination. There's more examples of this, changing of artstyle. And its one reason Fire Emblem was originally never released in the West.

I'll just say we live in a great timeline right now . Japanese/Anime/Girly games are clearly in demand in the West, in part thanks to Operation Rainfall so I'm thankful for that. I admit I don't generally agree with the direction Nintendo is taking lately but I'm thankful that they changed their stance on Japanese/girly games at least.

It was Mega Man, probably the most infamously terrible Box Art change in all of gaming history.

 

[Jyl]

It was Mega Man, probably the most infamously terrible Box Art change in all of gaming history.

Oh yeah there was Megaman too, but I was thinking of a Nintendo series, it was really Japanese in style but somehow made it to the West.
It had a a miko main character and a raccoon.

 

[lordvaati]

ah, you mean Pocky & Rocky.
looking at the Box art now it does seem like they were going for some Saturday Morning Cartoon aesthetic(Literally using the same word font as Ren & stimpy even!), and it is pretty meh I agree.

 

[DunnoBro]

Fairies > Furries

 

[Jyl]

ah, you mean Pocky & Rocky.
looking at the Box art now it does seem like they were going for some Saturday Morning Cartoon aesthetic(Literally using the same word font as Ren & stimpy even!), and it is pretty meh I agree.

Yeah that's exactly it.
I don't know what they were thinking. At least try to make the art appealing

 

[N. Onymous]

This is the same region that will slap angry eyebrows on a pink marshmallow just to push a few extra copies. At least they make sense on Lip. She's a cutie, but that doesn't mean she's always super innocent or a pushover--for a kid, she's got a lot of agency. Kirby barely seems to know what's going on most of the time.

 

[MasterRosie]

The fact that Sakurai is one of the only game devolopers at Nintendo right now that actually acknowledges PdP is another reason that makes me think if we do get a modern PdP game, he’ll be the one behind the wheel for it.
Which I honestly am kinda conflicted on.
I mean, he’s an amazing developer.
Just look that the Smash series as a whole.
But then we have Kid Icarus Uprising which people are wanting another sequel for, but is very unlikely to happen because of Sakurai’s dislike of sequels.
I would be very happy for the series to make its grand comeback, but would it be a temporary victory and get the same treatment as Kid Icarus afterwards?

 

[Luigifan18]

This is the same region that will slap angry eyebrows on a pink marshmallow just to push a few extra copies. At least they make sense on Lip. She's a cutie, but that doesn't mean she's always super innocent or a pushover--for a kid, she's got a lot of agency. Kirby barely seems to know what's going on most of the time.

That's a very apt way of putting it. How many times has Kirby put the world/galaxy/universe in danger by impulsively meddling in a situation he didn't understand again?

Spoiler: I'm asking that rhetorically — I already know the answer.

It's happened four times. In Kirby’s Adventure, Kirby reassembled the Star Rod to get the Fountain of Dreams working again after Dedede shut it down in order to quarantine it against Nightmare (Kirby's assumption was that Dedede was just being a jerk). In Milky Way Wishes, Kirby took Marx's advice and woke Nova up to get the sun and moon to stop fighting... and as soon as Nova woke up, Marx body-checked Kirby and stole his wish, wishing for sufficient power to conquer Pop Star. In Kirby Squeak Squad, Kirby pursued the Squeaks to get at the chest containing Dark Nebula, believing that it contained his stolen strawberry shortcake (though I'm not sure if Kirby can be blamed for Dark Nebula's release, since Daroach was the one who opened the chest). Finally, in Kirby's Return to Dream Land, Kirby retrieved the Master Crown from Landia for Magolor, having been deceived into believing that Landia was abusing its power, only for Magolor to take the crown and try to use it to conquer the universe.