The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Most "leaks" are just glorified roster wishlists, as I've said.

Any legitimate leaker wouldn't make you play guessing games to figure out a game's roster. Allegedly it's because they're afraid of getting caught revealing confidential information, but here's the thing: Real leakers don't give a damn about being caught. They just post their data, whether that's video proof or just a straight list of factual information--but it's always general information about the game, no insight into development, no information on DLC, just vague truths--and then buzz off. This is what Gematsu did, it's what the ESRB leaker did, it's what the Pokemon Let's Go leaker did, and it's what any legitimate Ultimate leaker will do (if there's a legitimate leak). None of this "Blunderbuss Van Helsing Pinocchio" nonsense.

Very strong insight there, now that I look at these again. Probably could post this to the Ultimate Discussion Thread for others to see, since there's been an increasing amount of posts showing what's the newest fake leak 4chan's been throwing from it's /v/-forums.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Looking real good, T.

 

[N. Onymous]

Texture work is obviously unfinished and I noticed only after rendering that I had the wrong leg texture applied.

I thought for a second you gave her stockings. That is an adorable thought, though.

 

[Siggy88]

I thought for a second you gave her stockings. That is an adorable thought, though.

Actually, that gave me an idea.

Don't you think that Lip's design is somewhat outdated? You can't argue that it's iconic since, you know, she's not exactly a well known icon. But I think if in the even she would become playable that she would receive a redesign ala Pit. You know, bring her to the modern age. Now I'm not to verse in current magical girl styles, but I would image they would take inspiration in something like Madoka Magica. Character design wise, not story obviously.

Spoiler: I'm thinking something like this....

 

[MysticKnives]

It’s possible. Though I personally think they’d at the most just add small touches like slightly increasing the length of her skirt or slightly altering the color of her clothes and that’s about it

 

[N. Onymous]

Lip's design is perfectly fine as it is. I understand updating Pit since he's even older than Lip is and had a very basic design to start with. Lippy, with her dress, boots, ribbon, and ponytail, doesn't need updating to have an appealing design by modern standards. There's something to be said for her elegant simplicity.

At most I could see them add a few elements from Furil's design. Maybe make her skirt a bit lacier.

 

[Deleted member]

Well guys, here it is, 4 years (and 1 day) after my first post here the probably last model is completed, rigging and all. Sitting at 6.865 polys, I barely managed to stay below my self imposed 7k limit. Texture work isn't the best, that was never my strong suit, but it's serviceable enough for me. And besides, textures are easier to replace than an entire model, so I might do some changes from time to time. But the actual model itself, is done at this point. Mkes me feel a bit melancholic, I've gotten used to always having an unfinished Lip model, it's weird to see it done.

Just for fun, here's a trip down memory lane and all* the Lip models made during the last 4 years:
*not including very low poly ones like the Mario 64 DS one.

Spoiler: 6.946 polys (2018)

Spoiler: 6.826 polys (2017)

Spoiler: 10.758 polys (2015)

Spoiler: 11.118 polys (2014)

Spoiler: 7.196 polys (2014)

(I can't believe I still have all that trash flying around, let alone once thought they looked good.)

 

[N. Onymous]

Boy, how time flies...

I have to say that the face from that very first model is the best of them all, in my opinion. It looks the most "Lip-y" out of all of them. But it looks great all the same!

 

[Deleted member]

That might be because it actually is from Lip, her Captain Rainbow model, to be exact. I remember trying to use it in the past on one of the older models, but there was a reason it didn't work, I just can't remember what it was. Still, thinking about it, I could give it another try and see how it looks? Not today though, it's already 11pm and I don't have the files on my PC right now, would have to search where they are.

Still yeah, thanks for the suggestion, even if it was more of an indirect one. I actually didn't think about using those textures at all. I'll get back at you tomorrow.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

That's pretty epic! I'm glad to see your dedication go through the roof dude! Love it.

 

[Siggy88]

Well guys, here it is, 4 years (and 1 day) after my first post here the probably last model is completed, rigging and all. Sitting at 6.865 polys, I barely managed to stay below my self imposed 7k limit. Texture work isn't the best, that was never my strong suit, but it's serviceable enough for me. And besides, textures are easier to replace than an entire model, so I might do some changes from time to time. But the actual model itself, is done at this point. Mkes me feel a bit melancholic, I've gotten used to always having an unfinished Lip model, it's weird to see it done.

Just for fun, here's a trip down memory lane and all* the Lip models made during the last 4 years:
*not including very low poly ones like the Mario 64 DS one.

Spoiler: 6.946 polys (2018)

Spoiler: 6.826 polys (2017)

Spoiler: 10.758 polys (2015)

Spoiler: 11.118 polys (2014)

Spoiler: 7.196 polys (2014)

(I can't believe I still have all that trash flying around, let alone once thought they looked good.)

Amazing job. Congrats on finishing the model after so many years.

 

[DjinnandTonic]

I like the face/proportions/palette on the 2015 one the best. The hair from your latest model is the best, but otherwise I think this older one looks nicer. Maybe if you posed the new one, it'd look better? T-pose isn't very flattering.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

So wait did you do all those variations?

 

[N. Onymous]

Those are early versions of the model that Tai kept around.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I see, I really like the 2014/2015 models. I think you may be underappreciating your previous work. Though the fact you were able to achieve a similiar effect with 3,000 less polygons is quite amazing. Though if I am to be quite honest, the bun on the current Lip's model is hanging a bit low.

 

[Luminario]

Quick question, has anyone pointed out that the redesign of the Flowerhead effect seems to make them look pretty identical to the flowers in the PdP opening?

View attachment 150162

It's almost as if someone has been paying pretty close attention to PdP while making the game

 

[Deleted member]

Well, based on some feedback, I did make some slight changes. Namely changing the eyes and making the swirly hair thing a bit smaller. Gotta admit, I actually like the result. I did keep the mouth though, I think it looks good enough.

I think at this point I can safely delete the old models, as I'm quite satisfied how this one turned out and I doubt there's any need for them anymore.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Quick question, has anyone pointed out that the redesign of the Flowerhead effect seems to make them look pretty identical to the flowers in the PdP opening?

It's almost as if someone has been paying pretty close attention to PdP while making the game

Would you say that this goes in Lip's favour for playable status, goes against her or makes no difference? I ask this because personally, I don't know.

 

[Luminario]

Would you say that this goes in Lip's favour for playable status, goes against her or makes no difference?

Ever so tiny in her favour. A good reason to change the flowerhead to be more accurate would be because a certain character uses it a lot in her moveset. You could argue that there's no point in changing such a small status effect unless it's not so small anymore, or Sakurai's/whoever did the flower was just that much of a perfectionist.

 

[Siggy88]

Ever so tiny in her favour. A good reason to change the flowerhead to be more accurate would be because a certain character uses it a lot in her moveset. You could argue that there's no point in changing such a small status effect unless it's not so small anymore, or Sakurai's/whoever did the flower was just that much of a perfectionist.

My guess it's just to make the flower look more like the main screen. The flower effect has looked mostly the same since Melee.

Spoiler: Melee's Flower Effect

Spoiler: Brawl's Flower Effect

Spoiler: Smash 4's Flower Effect

Still, I still find it weird that they would go that far on attention to detail, without even acknowledging where everything came from.

EDIT: While looking up the pictures above, I ran into some pretty interesting info. Apparently, in Kirby Super Star, there was going to be a "Flower" ability, in which Kirby dons a bow and hits enemies with a flower effect that does damage over time, which is the same idea that would appear in Melee. This copy ability was scrap along side a "Card" and "Mantle" ability.

Spoiler: Kirby Super Star Conception Art

Makes me wonder why Sakuria has been referencing PdP since this far back. It's worth noting that PdP came out in '95 while Super Star came out in '96, a year later.

 

[N. Onymous]

Ever so tiny in her favour. A good reason to change the flowerhead to be more accurate would be because a certain character uses it a lot in her moveset. You could argue that there's no point in changing such a small status effect unless it's not so small anymore, or Sakurai's/whoever did the flower was just that much of a perfectionist.

It's one of those little details where I doubt it really means anything, but I desperately want it to.

 

[Deleted member]

So, because it's my birthday today, I have a little present. I kept it a secret, so I hope it's a nice surprise. I actually intended for the finished Lip the be today's surprise, but I finished her faster than I thought. So I did this small thing in half a day as a substitute.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Well, based on some feedback, I did make some slight changes. Namely changing the eyes and making the swirly hair thing a bit smaller. Gotta admit, I actually like the result. I did keep the mouth though, I think it looks good enough.
View attachment 152346
I think at this point I can safely delete the old models, as I'm quite satisfied how this one turned out and I doubt there's any need for them anymore.

Yeah that looks amazing. Still I have to warn you chap, keep the old models. Even if you never use them, you never know when you'll want to go back to that old art for any reason. Even to this day I go to some of my outdated art all the time.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I've been thinking ever since Melee that Lip could be an interesting character choice. If Nintendo wanted to turn a profit by adding her in (though they don't have to, she could just be the retro rep), they could consider bringing Panel De Pon over to the States, translating them and selling them as mobile games. Tetris and Match 3 type games tend to do really well on mobile. So there's the monetary incentive if they wish to have one.

You can consider me a supporter.~

 

[Siggy88]

I've been thinking ever since Melee that Lip could be an interesting character choice. If Nintendo wanted to turn a profit by adding her in (though they don't have to, she could just be the retro rep), they could consider bringing Panel De Pon over to the States, translating them and selling them as mobile games. Tetris and Match 3 type games tend to do really well on mobile. So there's the monetary incentive if they wish to have one.

I also agree on making a mobile Panel de Pon game. The game is addicting enough, and it would be the best time to give finally the original characters a time to shine without rebranding. I think they could charge about $10-15 for it, but I also fear they may go with a free-to-play model. I'm not familiar with Candy Crush or how those games handle that business, but I remember Tetris and Angry Birds bombarding you with ads unless you paid for them. It kinda sucked, but at least you could play the game for free.

And to be honest, I'm not entirely sure why this hasn't happen yet. We know Nintendo is now embracing mobile, and their new CEO considers it a new pillar for the company. We're getting a Mario Kart game soon, a stand alone RPG called Dragalia Lost, and who knows what else they have in plan. So a puzzle game in their mobile lineup just makes so much sense.

As for Lip as a fighter, I'm would still be content with her just getting some acknowledgment as an assist or regular trophy. Like I said, it would be a nice surprise if she were to make it, but I wholeheartedly believe that there are other contenders that deserve a spot first. And I think Sakurai is focusing on fan favorites this time around. The whole "everyone is back" angle and primarily Ridley may be due to the roster ballot, so I think we would see the likes of K. Rool, Isaac and Geno before a lower star like Lip.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

So, because it's my birthday today, I have a little present. I kept it a secret, so I hope it's a nice surprise. I actually intended for the finished Lip the be today's surprise, but I finished her faster than I thought. So I did this small thing in half a day as a substitute.
View attachment 152605

So are we ginally gonna get the Lip model? :o

 

[N. Onymous]

I think I posted earlier in this thread that I wouldn't at all be opposed to a mobile Panel de Pon as long as it's a one-time purchase app (possibly with a "free trial" of Lip's stage in Endless mode, like Super Mario Run), instead of a "free" one flooded with microtransactions. Possibly even if it was a "free" app flooded with microtransactions. I'd just appreciate seeing the fairies again, personally.

All of the little hints and curiosities we've seen so far seem like they're pointing towards something for Lippy. Whether that's as a playable character or an Assist Trophy, we have no way of knowing at the moment. (And, of course it's just as likely they mean nothing, and that a certain item will rear its head the next time we get a significant dump of gameplay footage/screenshots.) And K. Rool, Isaac, and the rest are fantastic characters in their own right...but how can they really expect this to be the ultimate Smash game if Lip isn't there?

 

[N. Onymous]

Well, Siggy88's post got me thinking...and then it got me drawing.

A picture of the flower fairy Lip from #PanelDePon that I've worked on for the past few days. I think this'd be the perfect outfit for her #SuperSmashBros debut! (Which will hopefully be in #SuperSmashBrosUltimate! ...right, @NintendoVS?) pic.twitter.com/rJfDsat5sM

— mabetech (he/him) 💜🤍💛🖤 COMMISSIONS OPEN! (@mabetech) July 13, 2018

This is a design for Lip as she might appear as a playable character in the Smash Bros. series. As said earlier, I borrowed a few elements from Furil's design, added a bit more frills and lace here and there to make her design feel more "princess-like", but ultimately tried to keep things faithful. I think I did a pretty good job!

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

^ Looks great! =)

So then, do you imagine her being around Ness's height or perhaps taller?

 

[Deleted member]

Aw, not a single comment on that... thing I forgot the name of? Guess either the surprise was a dud or it turned out so good, there's nothing to complain about. Hopefully the latter, haha. But no really, what is that thing called?

Or a Birthday wish after I rushed like hell to get it done.​

Yeah that looks amazing. Still I have to warn you chap, keep the old models. Even if you never use them, you never know when you'll want to go back to that old art for any reason. Even to this day I go to some of my outdated art all the time.

I get what you mean, but for me, there's no reason to keep those old models around. The reason why I did the new one is so I could have a totally custom one, where the old models were cobbled together from other stuff, mostly Neptunia, inflating the poly-count for no reason. So while the new one might look worse, I can at least say I did it myself and have more control over it. Another advantage and reason why I did this is, because I now have a "nude" model which I can use as a base for other stuff without having to start from scratch, increasing speed extremely. Oh, also I ain't a chap, sorry to say, heh.

Well, Siggy88's post got me thinking...and then it got me drawing.

*snip*

This is a design for Lip as she might appear as a playable character in the Smash Bros. series. As said earlier, I borrowed a few elements from Furil's design, added a bit more frills and lace here and there to make her design feel more "princess-like", but ultimately tried to keep things faithful. I think I did a pretty good job!

Looks pretty good indeed. Reminds me of Snake in the sense that his design also takes inspiration from various different Snakes and not just the same character. So having an outfit like this wouldn't be out of placed either, give that there's precedence.

In fact, I think I'm gonna do something with that, if you don't mind?

 

[Luminario]

Well, Siggy88's post got me thinking...and then it got me drawing.

A picture of the flower fairy Lip from #PanelDePon that I've worked on for the past few days. I think this'd be the perfect outfit for her #SuperSmashBros debut! (Which will hopefully be in #SuperSmashBrosUltimate! ...right, @NintendoVS?) pic.twitter.com/rJfDsat5sM

— mabetech (he/him) 💜🤍💛🖤 COMMISSIONS OPEN! (@mabetech) July 13, 2018

This is a design for Lip as she might appear as a playable character in the Smash Bros. series. As said earlier, I borrowed a few elements from Furil's design, added a bit more frills and lace here and there to make her design feel more "princess-like", but ultimately tried to keep things faithful. I think I did a pretty good job!

Super cute. love the added frills. I think if she's added she'll have her VS Portrait proportions instead though, just to make her less stumpy. I'd say she should be slightly shorter than Young Link, and could even be built off of his skeleton.

Aw, not a single comment on that... thing I forgot the name of? Guess either the surprise was a dud or it turned out so good, there's nothing to complain about. Hopefully the latter, haha. But no really, what is that thing called?

You mean the cotton ball bird thingy? I think it's name is Watabou. You did a pretty bang up job on it, especially for half a days work.

Also, I've been thinking, if they don't want to implement clearing blocks as specials they could easily make them smash attacks. Down smash could have her bring 3 heart blocks out of the ground that then pop one after the other, side smash could bring out a column instead of a row and do the same, and up smash could have them shoot out of the ground in a row to pop above Lip's head.

 

[N. Onymous]

Yeah, it's called Watabou. It's a very cute model.

Actually, that's an extremely clever idea for a smash attack. As it charges, panels start to appear, and when released they all pop simultaneously. Maybe my old moveset needs an update.

So then, do you imagine her being around Ness's height or perhaps taller?

Probably in-between Ness and Diddy, closer to Ness.

Looks pretty good indeed. Reminds me of Snake in the sense that his design also takes inspiration from various different Snakes and not just the same character. So having an outfit like this wouldn't be out of placed either, give that there's precedence.

In fact, I think I'm gonna do something with that, if you don't mind?

Go right ahead. I'd love to see what you make of it.

 

[Siggy88]

I'd say she should be slightly shorter than Young Link, and could even be built off of his skeleton.

Wow, I did not think of that? So she's going to be a clone of Young Link? She's a clone of a clone!

Lol I kid. But it's not farfetched. Little Mac was apparently modeled off Captain Falcon, and they have completely different movesets. As of size, I believe she would be just a bit shorter than Young Link, maybe at Toon Link's height.

 

[MysticKnives]

Wow, I did not think of that? So she's going to be a clone of Young Link? She's a clone of a clone!

Lol I kid. But it's not farfetched. Little Mac was apparently modeled off Captain Falcon, and they have completely different movesets. As of size, I believe she would be just a bit shorter than Young Link, maybe at Toon Link's height.

Got a source for the Little Mac based on Falcon thing? That's interesting.

 

[Siggy88]

Got a source for the Little Mac based on Falcon thing? That's interesting.

Skip to 1:50 for the Little Mac part, but this video also shows how a datamine revealed Bayonneta being actually planned really early and how her model is based of Zero Suit Samus, as well as Roy being based of Ike.

 

[Luminario]

Wow, I did not think of that? So she's going to be a clone of Young Link? She's a clone of a clone!

Lol I kid. But it's not farfetched. Little Mac was apparently modeled off Captain Falcon, and they have completely different movesets. As of size, I believe she would be just a bit shorter than Young Link, maybe at Toon Link's height.

Exactly, she'd swing that wand around like a sword so easily
That's pretty much what I was thinking, along with how you said Bayo was built off of ZSS too. They have similar child-like features, and she could even copy over some misc animations from other female characters like Peach or Zelda for some feminine flair. With her gimmick already in the game multiple times too meaning it was probably ported from Smash 4 she could be rather easy to implement compared to someone like Inkling.

 

[Deleted member]

For what it's worth, when I made the model, I took inspiration from Ness and Lucas for her proportions. I kinda feel Lip would be around that height. Maybe a tiny bit smaller.

Go right ahead. I'd love to see what you make of it.

Something like this. It's subtle, but I mean, it is Lip with Furil inspired clothes and not Furil herself. I could do better with her shirt texture, but it's simply meant to be an example and not a serious project.

Spoiler

 

[N. Onymous]

The prevailing art style in Panel de Pon is the more cartoonish one, so that's what I went with for the picture. Who knows what an actual Smash game would shoot for, though. (For what it's worth, Lip's Stick looks a bit more like how it does in the 2-player mode artworks.)

It hurts to see that the people over in Rate Their Chances want Captain Toad in Smash Bros. more than Lip. It really, really does.

 

[Siggy88]

It hurts to see that the people over in Rate Their Chances want Captain Toad in Smash Bros. more than Lip. It really, really does.

Well, to be fair, Captain Toad is character from an established franchise who just got a release in the Switch. Not only that, people have been wanting Toad for ages, and this iteration has enough personality to be unique. They even mentioned that his only crutch is that making him jump would be out of character for him, but that doesn't stop the likes of Olimar and Fox to be playable characters. So yeah, I agree that his chances would be higher than Lip's. Also, they did mentioned that Lip has the potential to have a unique moveset, but her inclusion is really up to Sakurai. Didn't he mention that he tries to avoid to include Japan only characters as much as he can on one of his older interviews? The only real exposure that the West has had of her is the custom in Animal Crossing.

Also, episode 3 is up.

Spoiler: Thumbnail may be NSFW

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Or a Birthday wish after I rushed like hell to get it done.​

I get what you mean, but for me, there's no reason to keep those old models around. The reason why I did the new one is so I could have a totally custom one, where the old models were cobbled together from other stuff, mostly Neptunia, inflating the poly-count for no reason. So while the new one might look worse, I can at least say I did it myself and have more control over it. Another advantage and reason why I did this is, because I now have a "nude" model which I can use as a base for other stuff without having to start from scratch, increasing speed extremely. Oh, also I ain't a chap, sorry to say, heh.

It's not that I think the old ones look better, just that being an artist myself I know that sometime having old art is good for reference when looking for future projects. I am currently doing vector based animations for a certain project and find myself constantly going back to five year old pieces despite how crappy i think they are. they work as learning tools as well as time savers ocassionally as i can rip assets from them to save time on current projects. I don't know how that translates to 3D projects mind you but I figure there has to be some similarities. I'm just trying to look out for your future interests, but if you already have your mind set don't mind me.