The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[N. Onymous]

I hope the thumbnail isn't against the rules.

Strategically placed banana peel means you're probably good.

 

[SchAlternate]

Strategically placed banana peel means you're probably good.

I'd argue the strategically placed banana might make it more suggestive, though.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I'd argue the strategically placed banana might make it more suggestive, though.

Do you think it's best that I get rid of the thumbnail and edit it to make it just a link to the video?

 

[SchAlternate]

Do you think it's best that I get rid of the thumbnail and edit it to make it just a link to the video?

You can always just hide it under a spoiler tag.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

You can always just hide it under a spoiler tag.

Done and done.

 

[N. Onymous]

I think you would have been OK leaving it as is since the banana peel censors her undergarments, but if that's what you want to do, go ahead.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I think you would have been OK leaving it as is since the banana peel censors her undergarments, but if that's what you want to do, go ahead.

I understand what you're saying but I'd rather there be a warning just to be on the safe side.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Her underwear is blue, by the way.

...I mean, on the model we made.

Because that's the color they are in Captain Rainbow! I'm just paying attention to canon, that's all.

 

[N. Onymous]

Captain Rainbow is canon? Since when? : P

 

[FunAtParties]

Captain Rainbow is canon? Since when? : P

Since they showed her underwear duh

 

[Camc10]

Well, this got off-topic quickly.

PsychoJosh mentioned in a Discord server I'm in that he feels most of the movesets that have been posted in this thread are more focused on being cute and representative of Panel de Pon's gameplay than on being actually functional as a fighter. He says he feels things would be better served if you were playing a more improvised version of Panepon on the stage: say, she creates panels with her neutral special that can be stacked three high, which cause different effects while out, like the ones I have listed for Lip's Final Smash in my composite moveset (which is probably overdue for an update considering Final Smashes work differently this time around). It would be possible to select which panel would be created by holding down the B button like Pac-Man's neutral, but the order of colors would be random so you'd have to pay attention to get the panels you want. Hitting a panel stack of like colors with her Smash attack would destroy it, causing explosions that damage nearby fighters and creating "chains", which would power up her Garbage Block special, which would work as he described earlier in the thread.

Thoughts? Personally, I really like this idea. It gets the gist of Panepon's gameplay across while also providing a moveset that's fun to play.

Im kinda half yes and half no on this. I really like unique characters, but i don't care about "gimmick characters" (Robin being a good example. I do think the FS probably wouldn't work well will how Sakurai wants FSes to be.

 

[PsychoJosh]

If done right, I don't feel she'd be a gimmick character with this kind of moveset. She could be quite versatile with how she stacks panels and explodes them, and with her line clearing Smash attacks I think she could be a pretty deadly zoner/area denial character.

In my head, if she does a line-clearing move on the panel stack, she will quickly be able to move even while the line clear is happening, which will allow her to position herself to knock opponents into the exploding panels for damage or a killing blow. She could also move shortly after simply releasing a smash while the popping effects are still happening, allowing her to close distance on her opponent. If they're careful about it she could be the next Rosamama-- er, I mean, Rosalina.

 

[N. Onymous]

Using the Line Clear effects in setups... I love it. She's got so much potential to be a fun and unique fighter. It upsets me greatly that no one, not even the official Smash Bros. games, seem to have recognized this yet.

Im kinda half yes and half no on this. I really like unique characters, but i don't care about "gimmick characters" (Robin being a good example. I do think the FS probably wouldn't work well will how Sakurai wants FSes to be.

I realize that. The current idea for my Final Smash doesn't fit at all with the changes made to them in Ultimate, so it needs to be changed. That's what I was saying.

 

[PsychoJosh]

The way it stands right now, I feel that the Final Smash for Lip that N. Onymous proposed (where you play a game of Panel de Pon and then drop a huge garbage block on the stage) doesn't gel well with the "get straight to the point" style of final smashes in Ultimate. Therefore I proposed a different one.

Instead of playing Panel de Pon, why not invite all of Lip's fairy friends to dish out some damage? Essentially my idea for her Final Smash is called "Fury of the Fairies" and it goes like this:

Lip twirls her wand and points it at the floor directly in front of her. She makes a motion like an orchestra conductor making a rising crescendo, and a gigantic venus flytrap (or a tulip flower) rises up from the ground and closes around her opponents. When the flower re-opens all the enemies suddenly find themselves in the fairy world of Popples (Lip's homeworld). Lip shouts "let's go, everybody!" and her fairy friends all fly in and deliver a barrage of magical spells; Neris and Elias wash them away with a tidal wave, Windy zaps them with lightning, Flare burns them with fire, Sherbet freezes them in ice, Ruby pelts them with a shower of diamonds, Seren slices them all with a crescent-moon shaped slash from her staff, Lip spikes them all with thorny rose vines, and all the fairies together point to the sky and finish off the opponents with one HELL of a gigantic garbage block (I was thinking it would look similar to the one you see on the cover of Tetris Attack, but it could also be Lip's cutesy-faced one).

If you've ever played FF7 to the end, essentially it would be like a Knights of the Round summon, but with Lip and her friends (and not nearly as long, of course). Here's what I mean.

 

[Souldin]

So given we have briefly gone onto the topic, and I remember it being discussed back during the lead up to SSB4, what was the consensus around here about Lip's skirt situation? Now my current main fighting game is Dead or Alive, so I naturally have no issue with any unfortunate upskirt situation or whatnot, but Sakurai is quite keen to censor these things out (and that trend continues with SSB4 in ways they certainly didn't need to be, such as all that furore around Snake indicates).

It turns out that the Japanese Lip video posted several pages ago is the first in a series as a second video was posted a few hours ago:

Spoiler: Warning: Slightly Suggestive Thumbnail

I hope it isn't against the rules.

Thanks for posting that; I didn't realise the video series had English subtitles. I'll be sure to check it out later.

The way it stands right now, I feel that the Final Smash for Lip that N. Onymous proposed (where you play a game of Panel de Pon and then drop a huge garbage block on the stage) doesn't gel well with the "get straight to the point" style of final smashes in Ultimate. Therefore I proposed a different one.

Instead of playing Panel de Pon, why not invite all of Lip's fairy friends to dish out some damage? Essentially my idea for her Final Smash is called "Fury of the Fairies" and it goes like this:

Lip twirls her wand and points it at the floor directly in front of her. She makes a motion like an orchestra conductor making a rising crescendo, and a gigantic venus flytrap (or a tulip flower) rises up from the ground and closes around her opponents. When the flower re-opens all the enemies suddenly find themselves in the fairy world of Popples (Lip's homeworld). Lip shouts "let's go, everybody!" and her fairy friends all fly in and deliver a barrage of magical spells; Neris and Elias wash them away with a tidal wave, Windy zaps them with lightning, Flare burns them with fire, Sherbet freezes them in ice, Ruby pelts them with a shower of diamonds, Seren slices them all with a crescent-moon shaped slash from her staff, Lip spikes them all with thorny rose vines, and all the fairies together point to the sky and finish off the opponents with one HELL of a gigantic garbage block (I was thinking it would look similar to the one you see on the cover of Tetris Attack, but it could also be Lip's cutesy-faced one).

View attachment 150548

If you've ever played FF7 to the end, essentially it would be like a Knights of the Round summon, but with Lip and her friends (and not nearly as long, of course). Here's what I mean.

It's funny how Sakurai says he is changing the Final Smash's to be quicker and to-the-point, but I feel that making so many of them cutscene focused actually slows it down and takes you of the game. I much prefer the Final Smash's that keep the gameplay still going, particularly with control over the usage of the Final Smash.

As for your suggestion, I really like the idea of bringing all the fairy friends in it. I'm unsure about the initiation of the Final Smash, I feel it would work better having something involving the rainbow bridges carrying the opponents off triggering the cutscene instead.

 

[PsychoJosh]

So given we have briefly gone onto the topic, and I remember it being discussed back during the lead up to SSB4, what was the consensus around here about Lip's skirt situation? Now my current main fighting game is Dead or Alive, so I naturally have no issue with any unfortunate upskirt situation or whatnot, but Sakurai is quite keen to censor these things out (and that trend continues with SSB4 in ways they certainly didn't need to be, such as all that furore around Snake indicates).

I don't know if there is a consensus. Some here would like Lip's undergarments censored, some don't like the ugly-looking pitch black voids under the dress. I'm in the latter camp. I made the executive decision to have her underwear fully modeled in the model we made.

It's funny how Sakurai says he is changing the Final Smash's to be quicker and to-the-point, but I feel that making so many of them cutscene focused actually slows it down and takes you of the game. I much prefer the Final Smash's that keep the gameplay still going, particularly with control over the usage of the Final Smash.

As for your suggestion, I really like the idea of bringing all the fairy friends in it. I'm unsure about the initiation of the Final Smash, I feel it would work better having something involving the rainbow bridges carrying the opponents off triggering the cutscene instead.

I actually quite like Sakurai making them more to the point. I rather hated "upgrade" Final Smashes like Giga Bowser and Giga Mac. They just felt like a pointless tease. "Here's a version of your character that's bigger and invincible but not much more powerful, and you can only play as him for 20 seconds". Making it cutscene focused makes it feel more like a traditional fighting game like UMVC3 or Street Fighter, and is a great way of loading it with action shots and fanservice. Dedede's final smash looks amazing and I can't wait to hit people with it.

As for Lip's final smash, I don't think it would work better as a rainbow bridge at all. The initial hit NEEDS to have impact, like a giant flower clamping shut around the opponents. It can't just be the characters gently floating away on a rainbow of pixie dust. They're not going to a magical tea party.

 

[Deleted member]

This conversation kinda reminds me of what happened with Smash U. It's worth noting that the Japanese version was actually censored down the line in updates, while the western version was left untouched. Namely Palutena, as well as Lyn and Wonder Pink. Wonder Pink going so far and as to even getting an entirely new pose due to CERO seemingly having become stricter.

So if Lip were to get into Smash, I can see it going two ways. If she's a fighter, she'd get bloomers, like Villager. As an Assist Trophy, they would darken the skirt, the reason being that making a black void on a short skirt would be really ugly. It works for the princesses due to the length, but with Lip it would be much more noticeable. But as an Assist Trophy, she wouldn't move around much, making it more hidden, so to say.

Also for what it's worth, I went with neither on my model. No bloomers for a multitude of reasons pertaining to poly count, clipping and rigging. And no black void due to reason mentioned above.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I realize that. The current idea for my Final Smash doesn't fit at all with the changes made to them in Ultimate, so it needs to be changed. That's what I was saying.

I think your initial final smash idea could work so long as the panel de pon scene is converted to a cutscene and is much shorter. Basicallyit would cut to Lip doing a fast 10X combo before a giant garbage block appears and wrecks havok.

 

[N. Onymous]

My idea for Lip's new Final Smash was a little different. To avoid any confusion that might result from Kirby having the Garbage Block, I was thinking that Lip might have something else for her down special (maybe the Line Clear idea, it's growing on me) in favor of moving the Garbage Block idea to her Final. Basically it would be a kind of variation on PK Starstorm: she creates a bunch of garbage blocks that fall from the sky and launch away anyone who hits them, then finishes by dropping a huge one down the middle. It fits with how, unless your opponent is REALLY incompetent, garbage blocks are how you finish them off in the Puzzle League series.

I love the idea of using Lippy's final as Panel de Pon fanservice, but I've already designed a stage that works like that, and I don't feel like having them as stage hazards and Final Smash elements would work. Then again, it's theoretically possible for Shulk to call in Riki to help him pull off a Chain Attack while he's casting spells to help another fighter, so what do I know.

As for the skirt issue... well, I'm one of those weirdos who actually likes the void idea. Bloomers would be cute too, though.

 

[SchAlternate]

Lip's Final Smash should be inviting her opponent to a match of PdP, only to pull off an obscene combo on Level 9 while her opponent barely keeps up and drop the mother of all garbage blocks on them.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

So for fun, what would you consider to be your favorite Panel de pon song? For me it has to be Elias' theme/Water World. While relaxing, I think if this song recieved a good remix it could make for a great song to smash to.

 

[Siggy88]

Quick question:

Has anybody confirmed if Kirby's Down B still has the garbage block? I know that the flower effect has been shown off, which may imply the stick is still an item. It doesn't bode well for Lip, and I know that the flower can be inflicted by other means, but I feel I it's mostly associated with the stick. If Kirby still has the garbage block, I don't see Lip happening.

Which is fine, I wouldn't mind it if she's just a trophy or an assist. I just want some acknowledgement on the series, so we can get a proper Puzzle League game instead of being relegated to a side game in Animal Crossing. Ideally on mobile.

Also to reply on the songs, I really like this one.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Quick question:

Has anybody confirmed if Kirby's Down B still has the garbage block?

Yes, it was confirmed on page 15.

 

[lordvaati]

This conversation kinda reminds me of what happened with Smash U. It's worth noting that the Japanese version was actually censored down the line in updates, while the western version was left untouched. Namely Palutena, as well as Lyn and Wonder Pink. Wonder Pink going so far and as to even getting an entirely new pose due to CERO seemingly having become stricter.

So if Lip were to get into Smash, I can see it going two ways. If she's a fighter, she'd get bloomers, like Villager. As an Assist Trophy, they would darken the skirt, the reason being that making a black void on a short skirt would be really ugly. It works for the princesses due to the length, but with Lip it would be much more noticeable. But as an Assist Trophy, she wouldn't move around much, making it more hidden, so to say.

Also for what it's worth, I went with neither on my model. No bloomers for a multitude of reasons pertaining to poly count, clipping and rigging. And no black void due to reason mentioned above.

It is worth noting that one of Inklings alts is her schoolgirl outfit, so they would probably do whatever they did with her to Lip as well.

 

[Siggy88]

Yes, it was confirmed on page 15.

Ah, there goes that then. Oh well gg, maybe next game 6 years from will have a roster reset and then she'll have a shot. I still want my mobile Puzzle League game though.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Ah, there goes that then.

It doesn't mean anything. Lip could still appear and have larger garbage blocks than Kirby. He has references to a lot of different series.

 

[Siggy88]

It doesn't mean anything. Lip could still appear and have larger garbage blocks than Kirby. He has references to a lot of different series.

I suppose you're right, but I would refrain from getting your hopes too high up, so if Lip's Stick gets properly revealed the disappointment will sting a bit less.

 

[Deleted member]

It is worth noting that one of Inklings alts is her schoolgirl outfit, so they would probably do whatever they did with her to Lip as well.

That's not comparable, The Inklings still wear their bike shorts under the uniform even in Splatoon, so there never was anything to censor. With Lip it's still open in the air.

 

[N. Onymous]

I suppose you're right, but I would refrain from getting your hopes too high up, so if Lip's Stick gets properly revealed the disappointment will sting a bit less.

I don't think anyone is getting their hopes up for Lip this time. It'd be nice--very nice--but there are many other more popular and more likely characters who will get in before she does, and we already know the roster additions will be modest this time around considering just how many characters there are. Still, with Takamaru being an Assist Trophy and most other retro characters lacking moveset potential, the pickings are fairly slim. I'd say the odds are stacked as much for Lippy as against her, at this point. Here's hoping!

I understand your concerns about the flower effect, but I've already made my stance on it clear. It could easily have come from a move (I would be amazed if Daisy has no flowering moves) or a completely new item. Plus, the fact we haven't seen Lip's Stick at all so far combined with the flower receiving an entirely new model, when most items and item effects reuse their SSB4 models, is pretty suspect.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Siggy88, the flower effect on those pages were clearly the work of Alphonse. You can always leave it to him to fill in a slot when the main character is busy smashing.

Also that version of Ruby's theme is legit. I'm use to the snes version which is 1/10 the amount of new funky mode that that version was.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'm assuming that new Lip model hasn't been rigged yet, right?

 

[N. Onymous]

It has not been. The model itself is fully complete though, she just needs rigging.

 

[lordvaati]

As much as I love Panel de Pon and Lip, I feel like with this series, preparing yourself for disappointment is the best way to go about things. Sometimes it really does feel like Nintendo and/or Intelligent Systems are ashamed of it.

We have Sega's marketing to thank for that. At the time PdP was finished Sega's Western team was calling the SNES a system for girls and the like. I guess someone took it very personal and that was what led to the Yoshi reskin, and I guess the following ones as well.

Why they still do it decades later in an era with no Sega in the console race I have no idea.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I'm getting the rig done, just be patient.

 

[MainJPW]

Add me on that support list!

 

[Takasmash]

I also support Lip too.

 

[Siggy88]

We have Sega's marketing to thank for that. At the time PdP was finished Sega's Western team was calling the SNES a system for girls and the like. I guess someone took it very personal and that was what led to the Yoshi reskin, and I guess the following ones as well.

Why they still do it decades later in an era with no Sega in the console race I have no idea.

This is more of a decision of the times. In the 90s, video games was seen more as a "boys" hobby, and the marketers back when may have thought that a game featuring a bunch of cute little girls wouldn't sell well. And so they removed the original characters and replaced them with Yoshi and Mario character, and sometimes Pokemon too. And hey, it worked. They games sold much better using established franchises.

But that I guess that's the thing. By rebranding the game to other franchises, PdP became a "spinoff" of other titles rather then its own series. And I'm guessing not many people would buy a stand alone PdP anymore, since it's been robbed of it's identity. I know times have change and the internet is a lot more open to new ideas, but I don't think the head honchos at Nintendo or whichever division under them handles PdP (I'm thinking Intelligent Systems?) are willing risk releasing a title that may not sell. Which is why I personally believe they should try mobile, it may work.

And since you mention Sega, I think they were going to be in the same situation with the Puyo Puyo series. It first came to the west as Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and replaced all the Puyo characters with Sonic characters. But ever since then, they've embraced the characters and the series has had a healthy amount of releases under it's own name. Think about it, had they not, most people would only remember Puyo Puyo in the west as "that Eggman game on the Genisis" or "that stupid game I had to play to get pass Chemical Plant on Sonic Mania." Same way most people only know PdP here as "that Yoshi game on the SNES" or "that Pokemon game on the N64".

 

[N. Onymous]

I think the support list in the first thread should prove that these days, there are tons of people who would gladly buy a new game featuring the fairy characters. The Puyo characters weren't a turn-off for a lot of people when Puyo Puyo Tetris came out. What's there to be afraid of?

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Yeah, I just discovered a Pokémon Puzzle Challenge for the GBC which I just finished.
I'm taking everything with the PDP formula, and I'd love a proper NEW game, I'd get it for Switch on the spot.

 

[Siggy88]

Yeah, I just discovered a Pokémon Puzzle Challenge for the GBC which I just finished.
I'm taking everything with the PDP formula, and I'd love a proper NEW game, I'd get it for Switch on the spot.

Ah yes, Pokemon Puzzle Challenge, I really liked that game back in the day. But....

Did you know that game was originally meant to be Panel de Pon GB? Assets for it still exists in the game's data, including the title screen sequence, character portraits and music, but it all goes unused and hidden.

Spoiler: Panel de Pon GB Restored Assets

Title Screen

**Trying to access this screen ingame will just give you garbage. This is a just recreation by some hackers.

Trademark screen

Character portraits

Sleep screen (?)

Here's a hacker attempting to restore the characters to the game. There's still no release for this hack to my knowledge.

Spoiler: Pokemon Puzzle Challange Hack

Finally, here's the unused music. All from Panel de Pon.

Spoiler: Unused music

You can read all about it here.
https://tcrf.net/Pokémon_Puzzle_Challenge

I'm pretty sure this has all been discussed in this thread, but I just decided to do a new one anyway just for brevity. I just find the situation fascinating is all.

EDIT: I forgot, you can actually still play a very early, still in debugging phase version of Panel de Pon GB by inserting Pokemon Puzzle Challenge onto an original Game Boy (not Color or Advance, the game is in a Color cartage after all) and pressing a certain button combination.

Spoiler: Panel de Pon GB Prototype