The eternal debate: How will Brawl be controlled? CONTROLLER DISCUSSION HERE

[Keige]

I'm excited because this means that I finally have four wireless Smash compatible controllers (3 Wavebirds and 1 CC). Now we don't have to worry about one of my friends knocking the Wii over whenever we get excited. Although I definitely wasn't expecting a Wiimote only style.

 

[ph00tbag]

What, do you shake the remote to do a Smash Attack? :-/ I'll probably use either classic or GCN.

 

[Stryks]

This update 4-stocks all the rest...

 

[errtu]

sweet sweet update man, all i gotta say.. and will be using GCN controller of course who gives a cr*p about the wiimote shouldn't even be discussed.

 

[Stryks]

Ill try out all the control schemes, I may find the wiimote + nunchuck option better than the GC one, but doubt it...

 

[FTV]

Awesome! Now I'm going to really mess with people's heads by training on the least used controller. When they see me show up to fight everyone will laugh and say, "Oh man, he's one of those players." Then they'll all be shocked by my ability to play just as well!

 

[psyt]

soon we'll be concocting a "control scheme tier" i imagin

i wonder if it goes as far as say, one type of control is better for fox, because its very easy to perform the waveshine, while say another type of control it is cake to float cancel, thus its better suited for a peach, you think it will go that far??

 

[KidSmash]

I wonder how will the sideways Wiimote and Wiimote+Nunchuk be controlled, but at least it will be able to use both the Classic and GCcontrol

btw: i think its time to change this topics title to: OFFICIAL CONTROL DISCUSSION or something (forgive me for myh bad grammar ^^; )

 

[DonkeyPirate]

all Ive got to say is that this is the most important update so far. This is one of those things that if they didn't do right, it very well could have destroyed the game. But it sounds like they listened to the players and gave them as many options as possible.

 

[Level 9]

****... To be completely honest... I'm shocked & frankly a little horrified that my suspicions about the Wiimote by itself tuned out to be on the mark... For me this is like hell just froze over...

I hope to god that this might be a sign that there will be D-Pad support from the CC... I always wanted to pay Smash like how I did the old SNES Street Fighter games...

Taps & Holds always worked a bit better for me then Tilts & Holds...

 

[THK]

Hmm certain characters benefitting from certain control schemes? That's an interesting theory.

 

[Chill]

Why are you talking motion sensor? They said they aren't going to use it and they problary won't. All the controllers work without.

I don't know if this was directed at me but...

I did say "if". And Sakuri said he would like to explain how to do certain moves which seemed to me like a hint that the wiimote would use motion controls.

 

[Stryks]

Highly doubt it, a while ago he said he wouldnt use motion controles in the main gameplay, meaning during matches, but who knows, I was surprised u can use the wiimote by itself...

 

[kaid]

I see the Wiimote working like old-style fighting games.

Ground:
^jump
</>walk
>>/<< Run
v Crouch
v+>: crawl
>, a: tilt A
>+a: Smash A
b Specials
B shield
A Grab

AIR
^^: Airjump
vv: Fastfall
B+(direction): airdodge
a+(Direction): air moves
b+ (direction): specials
A+ (Direction): air moves

In both controls, + would be pause, and - would be Brawl move

Did I miss anything?

 

[Caael]

YES. Sakurai went for the best option. Now I have no worries about Brawl, apart from if Ridley will appear or not.

 

[Stryks]

Kaid there are no a and b buttons (only A and B), u must be getting confused with the 1 and 2 buttons...

 

[Mars-]

I'm pretty sure most people will just use the gamecube controller. But they had to make the Wii controllers work with it, otherwise, what would the people who don't own a gamecube controller do? The classic controller would work pretty well, cause it has all the buttons it needs, but I don't exactly get how they are going to make it work with the wii mote, and the nunchuck+wii mote.

 

[ecstatic]

Kaid, assuming a=1 button b=2 button, that would actually work ok. It would be really fun to do it that way.

 

[THK]

I see the Wiimote working like old-style fighting games.

Ground:
^jump
</>walk
>>/<< Run
v Crouch
v+>: crawl
>, a: tilt A
>+a: Smash A
b Specials
B shield
A Grab

AIR
^^: Airjump
vv: Fastfall
B+(direction): airdodge
a+(Direction): air moves
b+ (direction): specials
A+ (Direction): air moves

In both controls, + would be pause, and - would be Brawl move

Did I miss anything?

The 1 and 2 buttons.

 

[HideousBeing]

This update has been the best and most reassuring yet. I was thinking, "Wow, Sakurai's in a pickle. If he makes Brawl controlled by the GC controllers, the wiimote lovers will hate it. If he makes it controlled by the wiimote and implements the motion sensing, every serious gamer would hate it. Whatever he does, he'll disappoint someone." I never figured on this. That genius solves everything. It'd be funny to see a 4 player game with every player using a different type of controller. One person with the familiar clacking of the GC computer, one person with his hands separated playing, one person jerking his hands periodically, and one person sounding like he's playing street fighter on the SNES.

 

[EnFerris]

Highly doubt it, a while ago he said he wouldnt use motion controles in the main gameplay, meaning during matches, but who knows, I was surprised u can use the wiimote by itself...

He said "Normal play," which could mean the default control scheme, i.e. Classic Controller. Also, his rationale was "not too much motion sensing" using motion sensing as a control stick with a regular analog stick to back up shouldn't be too much. Also, things change during the development process. Always.

 

[kaid]

...alright, so my button config is still stuck in E3'06... with a=2 and b=1, everyone is happy?

Also, Shorthopping gets a little complicated, since it requires holding or letting go of the second click of the jump.

With some changes...


Ground:
^^(hold): jump
^^(click): shorthop
</>walk
>>/<< Run
v Crouch
v+>: crawl
>(hold) 2: tilt A
>+2: Smash A
1 Specials
B shield
A Grab

AIR
^^: Airjump
vv: Fastfall
B+(direction): airdodge
2+(Direction): air moves
1+ (direction): specials
A+ (Direction): air moves

In both controls, + would be pause, and - would be Brawl move

 

[Erk Aduro]

Ha, kaid you cam up with pretty much the same scheme I did in another thread. Great minds think alike. ^_^

Just goes to show you that that's probably the control scheme that makes the most sense sans motion controls.

 

[Caael]

Brawl is officially perfect now. It can be more than perfect if Ridley is in. But he will. He WILL.

 

[kuenzel]

mystery over. check the smashbros dojo site. http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html
Oh, looks like its already been posted.... oh well

 

[Stryks]

Yeah we know, we HAVE been talking about that all morning u know XD

 

[freeman123]

I remember when I said it would use all 4 control options about a year or more ago.

 

[Plomid]

this clearly is to some extent a sales technique.
not that its not obvious.
but this is good news.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

smash with purely digital controls would be a very different game. (ie: wiimote only with no motion contols)

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You'd have to be an idiot to play with the Wii mote or numchuck, not an idiot with the classic controller, and you'd be a smart smash player if you chose the Gamecube controller...

why? well umm the c-stick.

At least the classic controller has a second analog stick that you could do uairs, dairs, bairs and fairs with. The wii controllers.. do not.

Without a c-stick, how are you going to do reversed fairs.. how are you going to DI in directions opposite of the direction of your attack, such as jumping backwards (and getting the full DI) while doing a knee with captain falcon

Furthermore, without the c-stick it is DIFFICULT (though not impossible) to not fast fall when doing a down air attack... especially when spiking.

You all know what I mean, when you start playing smash and you want to stomp someone off the edge with falcons down air and you end up falling to your doom due to falcons fastfall being really ... fast.

So anyone that plays with the wii-mote or the numchuck is probably not going to go anywhere far in the game, and will be 4 stocked or worse online and IRL by gamecube and classic controller users that know what they're doing.

What do you think?

 

[tstumo]

I kinda agree with you.it would be smartest to use the Gc controller or the classic controller. The wiimote by itself just looks limited and not so easy to use. It would work but i dont think you could beat someone who uses a classic controller or a gc controller. kudos to anyone who masters it and pulls of a win somehow. the wiimote+ nunchuck also looks limited but alot more useful than the wiimote by itself. either way new and fun it might be but to pull off some seious stuff... i dont think so.

 

[Shapechanger]

You'd have to be an idiot to play with the Wii mote or numchuck, not an idiot with the classic controller, and you'd be a smart smash player if you chose the Gamecube controller...

why? well umm the c-stick.

At least the classic controller has a second analog stick that you could do uairs, dairs, bairs and fairs with. The wii controllers.. do not.

Without a c-stick, how are you going to do reversed fairs.. how are you going to DI in directions opposite of the direction of your attack, such as jumping backwards (and getting the full DI) while doing a knee with captain falcon

Furthermore, without the c-stick it is DIFFICULT (though not impossible) to not fast fall when doing a down air attack... especially when spiking.

You all know what I mean, when you start playing smash and you want to stomp someone off the edge with falcons down air and you end up falling to your doom due to falcons fastfall being really ... fast.

So anyone that plays with the wii-mote or the numchuck is probably not going to go anywhere far in the game, and will be 4 stocked or worse online and IRL by gamecube and classic controller users that know what they're doing.

What do you think?

Completely agree. Although I do feel that the classic controller will be perfectly as viable as the Gamecube controller, just not familiar to us experienced players. It has the same number of buttons and sticks as the Gamecube controller, so what's the problem? Sure, the button that would replace "Z" might be a little hard to reach, but who uses "Z"?

 

[F8X]

You'd have to be an idiot to play with the Wii mote or numchuck, not an idiot with the classic controller, and you'd be a smart smash player if you chose the Gamecube controller...

why? well umm the c-stick.

At least the classic controller has a second analog stick that you could do uairs, dairs, bairs and fairs with. The wii controllers.. do not.

Without a c-stick, how are you going to do reversed fairs.. how are you going to DI in directions opposite of the direction of your attack, such as jumping backwards (and getting the full DI) while doing a knee with captain falcon

Furthermore, without the c-stick it is DIFFICULT (though not impossible) to not fast fall when doing a down air attack... especially when spiking.

You all know what I mean, when you start playing smash and you want to stomp someone off the edge with falcons down air and you end up falling to your doom due to falcons fastfall being really ... fast.

So anyone that plays with the wii-mote or the numchuck is probably not going to go anywhere far in the game, and will be 4 stocked or worse online and IRL by gamecube and classic controller users that know what they're doing.

What do you think?

I agree. The only reason why the Wiimote is even an option is because it would not make much sense for Nintendo to release a gmae that only controls with the Gcube controller. Your eliminating customers. This will also make online play completely unbalanced if on method controls better than another. The positive about having consoles online is that everyone is equal with the same controller type. I can see why Nintendo would do it for Business reasons, but for game purposes I think it ***** everything up.

 

[Stryks]

ah but remember, the nunchuck has a cbutton, so maybe by holding the c button and then moving the joystick in a certain direction, u'll do the smash, which WOULD be a bit fater than with the gc controller, since most of the time u have thumb on the a/b buttons and to do a smash u have to rapidly move the thumb to the c stick...

with the nunchuck u already have the thumb on the joystick, its just a matter or pressing the button...

Im just defending the nunchuk thats all, im betting ill still use the gc controller XD

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

ah but remember, the nunchuck has a cbutton, so maybe by holding the c button and then moving the joystick in a certain direction, u'll do the smash, which WOULD be a bit fater than with the gc controller, since most of the time u have thumb on the a/b buttons and to do a smash u have to rapidly move the thumb to the c stick...

Hmm.. I was thinking about that too, using the numchucks control stick as a c-stick for smashes and for aerial attacks.

Thing is, when I think about it, it feels SO AWKARD

I mean, 2 sepperate controllers, one just for doing aerial attacks and smashes? Pointless.

You could do it, but from a smashers point of view it looks pointless.

About unbalancing online play :

Anyone who plays brawl with the wii-mote (given a few exceptions, im sure. Like people who PWN EVERYONE online in super smash n64 with their keyboard)

will most likely be nub. Yes, the gamecube controller users will have more versatility in their controls so they will beat the wii-users.

But in the end, it all comes down to skill. Wii's will beat GC users if the GC user is a bad player. Just like all things in smash.

best example being : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1BJcdrKAbk

OMG PICHU IS BROKEN!

Tiers make the game unbalanced

Back on topic though, ignore my little... rant.

 

[Dacvak]

You do realize that the Wiimote-Only style of play will most likely involve movement with motion sensing only, right? He would want to make it the most simple style of playing, since the Wiimote is the most simple controller. Therefore, it would probably work like this:

Tilt right and left (I.E. Excitetruck) to move the character. A fast tilt would be a run, a slow tilt would be a walk. Jerk the controller upwards to jump. A hard jerk (ahem) would be a full jump, and a soft "up-wards motion" would be a short hop. The d-pad would either be like the cube's C-Stick, or it would be jump. This would leave 1 and 2 being the Cube's A and B, respectively, and the A and B button being either Block or Grab.

The only thing that's missing is the Taunt, which I would guess would be the Select button. (Although, I'm kind hoping for different taunts for each character in Brawl...)

Anyway, I really think movement will be entirely tilt.

~Dac

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You do realize that the Wiimote-Only style of play will most likely involve movement with motion sensing only, right? He would want to make it the most simple style of playing, since the Wiimote is the most simple controller. Therefore, it would probably work like this:

Tilt right and left (I.E. Excitetruck) to move the character. A fast tilt would be a run, a slow tilt would be a walk. Jerk the controller upwards to jump. A hard jerk (ahem) would be a full jump, and a soft "up-wards motion" would be a short hop. The d-pad would either be like the cube's C-Stick, or it would be jump. This would leave 1 and 2 being the Cube's A and B, respectively, and the A and B button being either Block or Grab.

The only thing that's missing is the Taunt, which I would guess would be the Select button. (Although, I'm kind hoping for different taunts for each character in Brawl...)

Anyway, I really think movement will be entirely tilt.

~Dac

I dunno man I think its held on its side for a reason. And I don't think they will use motion sensing for brawl because...

*With motion sensing

 

[BigRick]

taunt would be turning the wiimote vertically and smackin it in your own face

wiimote only control will probably be very crappy, though it would allow for more ppl to join in... party time!

 

[red stone]

a proposed wiimote control scheme (in depth explanation)

this control scheme was made with the idea of advanced techniques in mind and keeping the flow of the game the same speed or faster.

i can't say that this control scheme will work with brawl because i don't know the engine of brawl completely. this proposed control layout is made with the thought of melee in mind.

so here goes:

A=A as in attack

b trigger= jump

+= b button for special attacks

dpad= c stick for smashes and aerials

c button= grab

z button= sheild, dodge, l-cancel




the primary attack buttons are now A and the + button. as you can see, the thumb can easily press both and can also press both at the same time if needed. note however that pressing the + button is best done with the bent part of your thumb to save time. in melee, there is no such time when you need to press both at the same time though.








let's talk about some advanced techniques now.


wavedashing- this is somewhat different than what you are used to. use the b trigger to jump, then the z shoulder button to dodge towards the ground. use the control stick for the desired direction and distance.

if the gc controller was a 10 in terms of accessibility and comfort then the wiimote layout would be an 8.5. the reason for this is that pressing the z button plus a dirction with the control stick in the left hand is slightly less comfortable than the gc style.







shffling-the way the wiimote control is done provides for easy shffls. press the b trigger, then do an aerial. next go down with the control stick and end with an l-cancel with the z button. the gc style and the wiimote style are both very comfortable.

gc=10, wiimote=10








jc grabs-the wiimote has the gc controller beat here. while running, press the b trigger then the c button. the left hand takes some of the burden off the right hand thus making it feel less awkward.

gc=10, wiimote=11.5











c-stick aerials-the jump button the the c-stick are handled by different fingers. the index finger takes care of jumping so the thumb can worry about the c-stick aerial which can be done with the d pad. this leads to a more accurate and quicker air game.

gc=10. wiimote=12











other stuff such as crouch canceling, sheild grabbing, diing, and the overall flow of the game are about the same on both .

in this post i did not use the motion controls of the wii for anything because i don't think they are needed except for menus.







***EDIT***

i just realized that i had forgotten a very important aspect of the game while making the control scheme. TAUNTING!!!!




gc=10, wiimote=2

 

[Dacvak]

I dunno man I think its held on its side for a reason. And I don't think they will use motion sensing for brawl because...

*With motion sensing

Yeah. Wiimote controls probably are going to suck, at least to us pros. Give us a Cube controller any day.

But you're forgetting about all of those "non-gamer" gamers Nintendo's always trying to include. Do you really think it would make much sense for the simplest, most inviting controller to have the most ***-backwards complicated controls?

I'm not saying tilting will be very good controls. Hell no, they'd probably suck. However, for a non-gamer, those controls are clearly the most non-threatening, and easy to pick up. And as complicated as Smash Bros is, this is a great opportunity for Nintendo to simplify it in order to invite new crowds to it. There's just no fscking way they'd have it otherwise.

Think about it.

~Dac