The elusive spring jump

[R4ZE]

**First of all I would like to note that this thread should be used to discuss sonic's up B (the spring jump). Anything about it, techniques, good uses for it, glitches, etc.



I recently started employing sonic's UP-B quite a bit more in my fights.

Now this just may be my own personal lack of knowledge but does anyone really have a deep understanding of the technical stuff with this move?

1. for one easy example, that double spring jump video has me baffled. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iunnhpaXX6M&NR=1


2. but another thing i discovered: my opponent(DDD) was standing inside my grounded spring, when i hit him with a running dash attack.

right when i hit him, he sprung up as if he landed on the spring. (straight off the ground)

i don't really know how this could be deployed into a combat technique, but it probobly could.

3. I think every knows this: when sonic dairs into a grounded spring, he can keep canceling into dair and remain suspended above the spring kicking down over and over.


--------with all that said, I just want to say that there is a lot about sonic's UP-B that should be looked into and researched so that all of us have a better understanding of sonic in general. I think this move is a big asset to sonic's arsenal, and we could very likely find some cool techs within it.


(ps i know there are many other special things to say about it, so lets discuss it here.)

 

[Tenki]

Spring setups
- - Well, if you can figure out exactly where/when he has invincibility frames, you can use it to set up a high aerial counter (meaning you can KO with u-air as low as 100%) against the 'sliding' D-airs like Shiek, TL, etc.


- - Placing springs under Olimar when he's respawning = lol.

- - If a Metaknight is doing a rising Tornado from ground and you plant a spring in front of it, it turns into his sideB due to his spammage of (side)+(B+B+B+B...).
Edge+tornado+spring ==> suicide, anyone?




Spring bombings
- - I personally like dropping springs above Ness/Lucas off-stage, since PK thunder + Spring = Nullify.

- - If it clangs with a moving-body recovery (Ness/Lucas/Fox... etc), it gets outprioritized, but it also slows them down slightly. This means that you can effectively shorten their range enough so that they won't reach the level


Kick spamming
- - Kickspam on spring lets you avoid short people/moves (yoshi roll, jigglypufff, etc) while being able to kick them

- - A small delay in the kick-spam can let you hit outside of the immediate spring hitbox while being able to 'talon' and still bounce off the spring.

- - Kickspam also kinda creates a point where it launches recovering enemies horizontally (since the kickspam is spamming d-air sweetspots)

 

[Sp3ed0fSoUnD]

Spring setups
- - If a Metaknight is doing a rising Tornado from ground and you plant a spring in front of it, it turns into his sideB due to his spammage of (side)+(B+B+B+B...).
Edge+tornado+spring ==> suicide, anyone?

Wait what? Can someone explain this alittle more, I don't quite understand it. Do you mean just placing it on the ground, or actually dropping it on him?

 

[R4ZE]

he actually means if meta is rising off the ground and u drop a spring on him. a spring dropped on top of meta would knock him out of the tornado and possible make him kill himself, depending on if he is tapping b to make the tornado last longer or not.

 

[Tenki]

no.

as the Metaknight is rising, plant a spring in front of /under him, and it will cancel his tornado (like all aerial moves vs a spring). Unlike most people, a rising Metaknight is not only holding a direction towards you, but also spamming the B button.

so if the MK is doing a rising tornado to the right, he's doing this:
[holds right] + [B, B, B, B, B...]
but while he's doing right+B, the spring cancels his tornado and he automatically goes into a side-B.

it's really situational, but it's nice to have the option there should the situation come up lol.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Edit: Never mind. That double spring thing looks so cool.

 

[R4ZE]

hmm. do you really think a spring from the side would cancel meta's tornado?


would be sick if it did, i need a way to beat meta.

 

[Tenki]

You can generally use a spring to shield yourself from melee attacks coming from overhead.

And I figured out the general spacing for its invincibility! (maybe)
Sonic is vulnerable when he's taking out the spring/getting on (immediately)
Sonic is invincible as soon as he starts the actual jump, for about a little over a full hop's height.

I just used it to get around an edgeguarding Charizard's flame and B-air to finish. :D

btw I use springs often in my fights as projectiles / setups / mindgames lol

 

[Sp3ed0fSoUnD]

no.

as the Metaknight is rising, plant a spring in front of /under him, and it will cancel his tornado (like all aerial moves vs a spring). Unlike most people, a rising Metaknight is not only holding a direction towards you, but also spamming the B button.

so if the MK is doing a rising tornado to the right, he's doing this:
[holds right] + [B, B, B, B, B...]
but while he's doing right+B, the spring cancels his tornado and he automatically goes into a side-B.

it's really situational, but it's nice to have the option there should the situation come up lol.

Oooh ok thanks, I get it now =) Would be funny to watch lol

 

[R4ZE]

its kidna cool because i was actually competing in tournaments and doing ok without using the up B too much, but now that i started messing with it aside from recovering/gimping, it's opening up a whole new world to me.


it helps sonic avoid so much more crap.

probly woulda pwned against wolf.

 

[Sp3ed0fSoUnD]

Yea I know R4ZE you're completely right. I only used to use Up-B as a recovery move, now I use it as a way to get away from projectile spammers, and just a simple spring => Dair combo.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

Yes!! That's It!!!

FINALLY you guys started experimenting with his up b. Now we're getting somewhere and is also the very move I hinted to experiment on in some other thread I posted in. Glad i'm not the only one who's doing this.

LOL someone spoke about the Olimar gimp it seems. Just remember that I was the one who thought of the Olimar gimp first . Anyone who wants to see it in action, check my video thread and look at 03:09 i believe.

Man Sonic sure is stepping it up these days .

 

[FrostByte]

Glitches - If Sonic does not perform his landing animation, he will not get his spring back. This means if he springs from underneath the ledge/platform and lands on it perfectly or if he gets grabbed (but not hit) while in the spring tumble animation. Through the first method, you'll be able to jump but will go into spring tumble straight after. No second jump and no spring.

 

[R4ZE]

interestingly enuff, if you lay a spring, and land. then you can use your second jump, hit the srping, and you will receive another second jump just form touching the spring.. not sure if this can be repeated.


another thing, if you use Side B into your own spring, you can go through it(as if it werent there) but if you jump cancel during the intial hop and while near the spring, you will spring up as if landing on the spring.

So somthing i'm testing for usability: Up-B to Dair(no delay) to side b(backwards into the spring, jump cancel to spring back up, repeat.

and you will still have both jumps when you jump off of a grounded spring this way.

 

[Napilopez]

More cool spring stuff:

Escape any chaingrab (or at leasr fromwht i've seen so far)

Grounded Spring is so funny againt fair spamming Marths. They land on it and it totally messes them up.

 

[R4ZE]

a grounded spring helps sonic a lot it seems like . I was playing with ym friend today, and if he ever came at me in the air i was able to:

Spring up using invincible frames to go thru the opponent, and then when they hit my spring and came up, the met my dair. but i could met with probly any aerial really... pretty nasty AA imo.

also, leaving a spring on the ground in random places allows sonic to quickly tap jump and use the spring to go as high as his up be, but still have all jumps.

EDIT: if a DDD knows how to chaingrab properly, even sonic's up-B cant get out of it.

My friend is a disgusting DDD, and he got me over and over, and every time he would grab u would only HEAR my up-B but then sonic would get grabbed, and i was spamming up-B the whole time. for about 5 throws, all the way to the edge.

 

[Tenki]

Btw crazymindgame if you can spring juggle someone.

I got a Bowser 4 times with it online two days ago, it was funny. Mix it up with aerials, so when they're expecting an aerial juggle move, they dodge and get sent up by a spring, cancelling their dodge and sending them back up. It's so amazing XD

 

[R4ZE]

omg yeah, i think i did it 3 times last time i played. it was funny, even he was laughing... so i think sonic is really good at covering people coming from above him... with his u smash and up-b.


and sonic actually isnt to bad at getting people above him either.

 

[MarKO X]

The best use of the Spring Jump ever is something I call "The Oblivion Cancel"

You can't Spring Jump to oblivion, so I've discovered that from any attack that sends you crazy high into the air, instead of hopelessly doing a dair or furiously tapping b to get off a homing attack, you can spring jump. I never die from upsmashes anymore because of this.

 

[R4ZE]

yea i was just thinking about thata today, like if u fair and ur about to smack into the ground... i wonder if u can up b before u land?


So yesterday i was using the dair into grounded spring quite often, kinda perfecting it... it was pretty sick for a ledge gaurd on some people. but the really nifty thing is that if anyone tries to punish you while your doing it, u just stop hitting A.... spring up form the ground spring and then dart right back into it or them.... and if u hit the spring, u go back up, if u hit the ground, u wont delay as long as u went high enuff.

I know people have always abused sonic's horizontal speed.... but we should all think too about his vertical speed. with his up B, and dair he has the potentil to travel on any axis extremely fast.

 

[Tenki]

yea i was just thinking about thata today, like if u fair and ur about to smack into the ground... i wonder if u can up b before u land?


So yesterday i was using the dair into grounded spring quite often, kinda perfecting it... it was pretty sick for a ledge gaurd on some people. but the really nifty thing is that if anyone tries to punish you while your doing it, u just stop hitting A.... spring up form the ground spring and then dart right back into it or them.... and if u hit the spring, u go back up, if u hit the ground, u wont delay as long as u went high enuff.

I know people have always abused sonic's horizontal speed.... but we should all think too about his vertical speed. with his up B, and dair he has the potentil to travel on any axis extremely fast.

lol I was in that phase/mindset for a bit :x

just... don't get in the (bad) habit of doing D-airs into people. I don't know if it's because I'm misunderstanding airdodge (does it get cancelled/leave you vulnerable/unable to block as soon as you land?) but I tend to get hit even trying to do a d-air>airdodge>shield approach ._.;

now I use spring>dair for its projectile value / combo starters

 

[R4ZE]

actually if u plan on not getting hit the best way to go about it, is to use the spring again right when u land, if they are trying to attack you anyway.

you can always just keep doing it until you ahve an opportinuty to get on solid ground without a sword swinging at you right when u land.

the kidna neat thing about it, is that some people ahve fought sonic enuff that they think dair = auto post delay, so when i come out of dair instantly into a fsmash... GO! . haha.

 

[FrostByte]

The best use of the Spring Jump ever is something I call "The Oblivion Cancel"

You can't Spring Jump to oblivion, so I've discovered that from any attack that sends you crazy high into the air, instead of hopelessly doing a dair or furiously tapping b to get off a homing attack, you can spring jump. I never die from upsmashes anymore because of this.

You can't use B moves as early as you can airdodge or use aerials. Otherwise you could just stall using homing attack instead of getting KOd vertically.

 

[R4ZE]

Ya so. i juts wanted to add that in my sonic endeavers yesterday, i actually got my friend so upset that he was saying sonic's up-b was rigged.

i thought it was pretty funny that he was getting mad about sonic being "too good"


but anyway, i love spring jump right now. i know i'm probly using it too much but im just trying to master it before i move onto another sonic move/tech

 

[FrostByte]

Ya so.

So, giving out false information won't help anyone on this board. And we need all the help we can get.

 

[R4ZE]

EDIT: I was going to respond, but then i realized that bashing people isn't the purpose of this board.



Please explain to me where i stated anything that is false, as fact.

 

[Tenki]

Just an idea. I can't play online atm, probably won't be for a while, so I don't have anyone who can do cg's-

Having a conveniently placed spring in the way of CG= escape?

I had the IC Nana-spike cg in mind.

4 second timer on grounded springs though :<

 

[TwinkleToes]

The best use of the Spring Jump ever is something I call "The Oblivion Cancel"

You can't Spring Jump to oblivion, so I've discovered that from any attack that sends you crazy high into the air, instead of hopelessly doing a dair or furiously tapping b to get off a homing attack, you can spring jump. I never die from upsmashes anymore because of this.

Yeah but that won't work once the hit-stun becomes long enough so that the meteor cancel point is beyond the top blast-line.

Still, it'll save your life a lot. The only real disadvantage to it is that sometimes you'll spring when you didn't need to and take some blast-line damage. But that's hardly worth mentioning.

 

[FrostByte]

EDIT: I was going to respond, but then i realized that bashing people isn't the purpose of this board.



Please explain to me where i stated anything that is false, as fact.

It wasn't you that gave that information, which I corrected. You did brush it off by saying what looked like a "whatever" at the beginning of your post, indicating that what I said was irrelevant. Unless I misinterpreted that in some way though it's unlikely.

 

[R4ZE]

my past that started with "ya so," wasn't really directed at you in any way. it was a general addition to the thread and it's main topic.

sorry if it came off that way.

i actually agree with your statement, and it makes sense. i can think of times that i died because i tried to use homing attack or spin dashes to slow my momentum instead of air dodging or using fair.