TKD+ITA+Mar=
Smash Ace
Counter is not one of Marth's best moves, and is infamous for being spammed by beginners. Unfortunately, some overlook the better aspects of this move and is almost shunned entirely.
So I hope to show how when used (sparingly), it can be a great clutch tool for Marth.
The Facts:
Hits opponent at 1.1 times of the original attack.
Increased hitstun, but not increased knockback.
You can be grabbed out of it.
Activates on frame 4
Approximately in the range between ftilt and shieldbreaker.
[Disclaimer: I am trying to make this as clear as possible, do not spam this move, or even use it frequently]
One of the most important thing to remember when using counter, if something works once with it, it is highly recommended that you do not try to counter in that same situation if it comes up again.
As a clarifier on the last statement, it can be ok, but you must make sure you react several different ways afterward.
-----
After an unnecessarily long, verbose, unorganized introduction, I can get into the real substance. (Although, I'll need an intro for this as well...)
Here is why counter has such a bad rep: It is very addicting.
Like I said earlier, counter is most effective when used very sparingly.
Most people fall into two categories: 1) Does not use counter at all 2) Spams counter
(With the first being the better of the two.) Now one would be inclined to ask why is this? Well the reason is, counter does work. And after getting a successful counter in, it is very easy to think "Hey that work very well, let me do it again!" but this rarely works and becomes a slippery slope. So many find it much easier to avoid it entirely. Unfortunately they end up missing a distinct psychological element in Marth's game.
An example:
You are Marth recovering, when MetaKnight jumps off the stage to try to gimp you, you are to far away to use dolphin slash, dancing blade would kill your momentum, and you do not have time to charge up shieldbreaker. So let's say use counter, and it works. Now a similar situation arises, now the MK must think, "Do I go full out trying to attack, or try to see if he'll counter first?" I don't think I need to explain how valuable this is. I would also like to mention, that your counter doesn't even need to hit in order for this thinking to occur. You just must show that you are willing to throw it out.
Counter Tactics:
General:
- You try to recover, and an opponent tries to gimp you.
- Hanging from the edge (without invincibility frames), an opponent uses their up-b. Drop down and counter.
- (Note: you need to predict your opponent in this case.) Your hanging on the edge, ledge jump and counter. Due to counter's odd momentum altering properties, you will land flat on the stage.
Specific:
- Donkey Kong's, Bowsers, or Ike's up-b while trying to recover on stage.
- MetaKnight's tornado, or when he is using drill rush trying to recover.
- Peach's side-b (Note: You need to be ready for this, as you do not have a very large window to react in time)
- Works particularly well against Snake's ftilt, but like I have said many times before, it is possible to activate the counter on his second hit without hitting him. Also works well against Mortar Slide (Dolphin Slash can be a good substitute as well).
- Mr. Game and Watch has a good deal of trouble with the counter. It is fanastic against his dair and his bair, but it also works well on his fair.
- Dedede's up-b (although a well timed usmash might be more effective, [not counting move degeneration])
- Snake's Mines
- Luigi's Tornado (Dolphin Slash also works)
- Pikachu's Thunder (Dolphin Slash also works)
- If you have many pikmin latched on to you, you can run up to Olimar and counter
- ROB's gyro when it is sitting on the ground. By doing a short hop and quickly pressing counter you will land right on it and activate the counter. This can be vary helpful as ROBs love to stay close to their gyro.
What does not work:
(Often times Dolphin Slash will work well in these situations.)
- Using it on Jigglypuff's rollout
- Wario's Bike
- Some of Sonic's Rolling attacks.
Just don't even try this:
- If you are above your opponent, do not try to counter, not only is very hard to connect if it does activate, but counter's weird momentum alteration, can make it very hard to activate in the first place. Also, if the opponent is on the ground you are will land right next to them begging to be punished.
---
The Counter in the Marth Ditto
If you're Marth dittos are anything like my Marth dittos, then the counter will come up more often here than in other places. Here are some strategies for dealing with it.
If your opponent uses his counter, what I like to do is to use a couple short hopped shieldbreakers and try to bait it. Once he starts trying to counter it, I hold it down and wait for the window to pass.
If he tries to recover on stage (assuming he does not have to use his up-b) and I see him use his counter throughout the match, I will DI towards him, wait for him to counter, DI back towards the ground, and punish appropriately. [I usually use either dsmash or dolphin slash, because it is generally too close to tipper anything else.]
---
The Stun Jacket
If you haven't heard of the Stun Jacket, it can be found here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201884
[Credit goes to Pierce7d]
In Singles:
If you do get a chance to activate the Stun Jacket in one on one here are some combos that you can create with it.
[Work in Progress]
Dedede at 0%
Dtilt -> dsmash, fsmash, dolphin slash, dancing blade, jab, dtilt, ftilt (grab?)
Jab -> (see dtilt)
Well, I hope this was mildly informative or helpful, and thank you for spending your time reading.
Questions, comments, obscene slander towards me and my family? Post away!
EDIT: Whew, finished this before the New Year! (For me at least)
So I hope to show how when used (sparingly), it can be a great clutch tool for Marth.
The Facts:
Hits opponent at 1.1 times of the original attack.
Increased hitstun, but not increased knockback.
You can be grabbed out of it.
Activates on frame 4
Approximately in the range between ftilt and shieldbreaker.
[Disclaimer: I am trying to make this as clear as possible, do not spam this move, or even use it frequently]
One of the most important thing to remember when using counter, if something works once with it, it is highly recommended that you do not try to counter in that same situation if it comes up again.
As a clarifier on the last statement, it can be ok, but you must make sure you react several different ways afterward.
-----
After an unnecessarily long, verbose, unorganized introduction, I can get into the real substance. (Although, I'll need an intro for this as well...)
Here is why counter has such a bad rep: It is very addicting.
Like I said earlier, counter is most effective when used very sparingly.
Most people fall into two categories: 1) Does not use counter at all 2) Spams counter
(With the first being the better of the two.) Now one would be inclined to ask why is this? Well the reason is, counter does work. And after getting a successful counter in, it is very easy to think "Hey that work very well, let me do it again!" but this rarely works and becomes a slippery slope. So many find it much easier to avoid it entirely. Unfortunately they end up missing a distinct psychological element in Marth's game.
(<- See how I avoided using the term "mindgames"?)
An example:
You are Marth recovering, when MetaKnight jumps off the stage to try to gimp you, you are to far away to use dolphin slash, dancing blade would kill your momentum, and you do not have time to charge up shieldbreaker. So let's say use counter, and it works. Now a similar situation arises, now the MK must think, "Do I go full out trying to attack, or try to see if he'll counter first?" I don't think I need to explain how valuable this is. I would also like to mention, that your counter doesn't even need to hit in order for this thinking to occur. You just must show that you are willing to throw it out.
Counter Tactics:
General:
- You try to recover, and an opponent tries to gimp you.
- Hanging from the edge (without invincibility frames), an opponent uses their up-b. Drop down and counter.
- (Note: you need to predict your opponent in this case.) Your hanging on the edge, ledge jump and counter. Due to counter's odd momentum altering properties, you will land flat on the stage.
Specific:
- Donkey Kong's, Bowsers, or Ike's up-b while trying to recover on stage.
- MetaKnight's tornado, or when he is using drill rush trying to recover.
- Peach's side-b (Note: You need to be ready for this, as you do not have a very large window to react in time)
- Works particularly well against Snake's ftilt, but like I have said many times before, it is possible to activate the counter on his second hit without hitting him. Also works well against Mortar Slide (Dolphin Slash can be a good substitute as well).
- Mr. Game and Watch has a good deal of trouble with the counter. It is fanastic against his dair and his bair, but it also works well on his fair.
- Dedede's up-b (although a well timed usmash might be more effective, [not counting move degeneration])
- Snake's Mines
- Luigi's Tornado (Dolphin Slash also works)
- Pikachu's Thunder (Dolphin Slash also works)
- If you have many pikmin latched on to you, you can run up to Olimar and counter
- ROB's gyro when it is sitting on the ground. By doing a short hop and quickly pressing counter you will land right on it and activate the counter. This can be vary helpful as ROBs love to stay close to their gyro.
What does not work:
(Often times Dolphin Slash will work well in these situations.)
- Using it on Jigglypuff's rollout
- Wario's Bike
- Some of Sonic's Rolling attacks.
Just don't even try this:
- If you are above your opponent, do not try to counter, not only is very hard to connect if it does activate, but counter's weird momentum alteration, can make it very hard to activate in the first place. Also, if the opponent is on the ground you are will land right next to them begging to be punished.
---
The Counter in the Marth Ditto
If you're Marth dittos are anything like my Marth dittos, then the counter will come up more often here than in other places. Here are some strategies for dealing with it.
If your opponent uses his counter, what I like to do is to use a couple short hopped shieldbreakers and try to bait it. Once he starts trying to counter it, I hold it down and wait for the window to pass.
If he tries to recover on stage (assuming he does not have to use his up-b) and I see him use his counter throughout the match, I will DI towards him, wait for him to counter, DI back towards the ground, and punish appropriately. [I usually use either dsmash or dolphin slash, because it is generally too close to tipper anything else.]
---
The Stun Jacket
If you haven't heard of the Stun Jacket, it can be found here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201884
[Credit goes to Pierce7d]
In Singles:
If you do get a chance to activate the Stun Jacket in one on one here are some combos that you can create with it.
[Work in Progress]
Dedede at 0%
Dtilt -> dsmash, fsmash, dolphin slash, dancing blade, jab, dtilt, ftilt (grab?)
Jab -> (see dtilt)
Well, I hope this was mildly informative or helpful, and thank you for spending your time reading.
Questions, comments, obscene slander towards me and my family? Post away!
EDIT: Whew, finished this before the New Year! (For me at least)
