-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
The Difference Between Catering To and Consideration: Explaning Sakurai's Design Philosophy
- Thread starter Jack Kieser
- Start date
Dark Phazon
Smash Hero
You could say if anything Sakurai is catering Sm4sh to Sakurai.
He seems to be doing alotta things he wants.
He seems to be doing alotta things he wants.
Mr. Mumbles
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2013
- Messages
- 793
I would give the OP so many props... if I didn't suspect he was wise enough to know that posting this thread would convince no one who didn't believe this, but instead create a flame war.
Mr. Mumbles
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2013
- Messages
- 793
First I'm going to interpret "once was" to mean "could be." If you literally meant once was, Sakurai could release an exact Melee replica and you'd be happy, but I suspect this is not the case. What you really want is a modified (perhaps slightly but still modified) version of Melee, which would in fact be better than it in some way, whether it would be in online capabilities, simply in roster selection, or much much more.
Being frustrated by something that has the potential to exist failing to exist, but we are in no way owed, is one of the biggest problems with this community as a whole. Sure we are likely all guilty of this to some degree, but it should be to our shame.
If you think that's all Melee has over Brawl you obviously don't have enough knowledge to add anything worthwhile to this discussion.
Terrazi Terrajin
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2013
- Messages
- 831
What else does it have over brawl then aside from a faster running speed and longer hit stun?
Also, as a rule of thumb. Adding snarky little remarks on the ends of your posts to try and insult people is not big or clever.
You know absolutely f***-all about me or what I know.
Renji64
Smash Lord
Smash died after melee now it is a former shell of greatness.
Starcutter
Resident Beedrill
I personally liked brawl better because I skipped the gamecube generation entirely (long story, don't ask) and played brawl first.
once I played melee, I couldn't get used to the faster falling speed and killed myself repeatedly. I often couldn't recover, in comparison to brawl, where I COULD recover and such. I would be able to do MUCH MORE in smash 64 or Brawl simply because I played them first, and the playstyle was more to my catering. therefore, I ended up liking brawl more, and I got really good at it.
I'm guessing that most melee players played melee first and couldn't get used to the slower speeds of brawl and therefore like it less, kinda like me with melee. I do think however, most melee players could lighten up and give brawl a chance, like I did with melee.
once I played melee, I couldn't get used to the faster falling speed and killed myself repeatedly. I often couldn't recover, in comparison to brawl, where I COULD recover and such. I would be able to do MUCH MORE in smash 64 or Brawl simply because I played them first, and the playstyle was more to my catering. therefore, I ended up liking brawl more, and I got really good at it.
I'm guessing that most melee players played melee first and couldn't get used to the slower speeds of brawl and therefore like it less, kinda like me with melee. I do think however, most melee players could lighten up and give brawl a chance, like I did with melee.
VA3TO
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 75
Most if not all Melee players started off with SSB64 and love that game just as much. Smash 64 was a great game and Melee was greater still. Brawl kicked all of that in the face. Starting with Brawl is a bad way to get into the franchise because it dumbs down and satisfies the needs of casual players to be able to be "good".
Starcutter
Resident Beedrill
well, in my defense, I did start with 64. I just played Brawl long before melee, and the only thing I found wrong with it was tripping. then I went to melee and everything was really different from brawl, which is what I was used to, which made melee worse in my opinion. it's all about perspective.
It's not that melee was bad, it's just that you can't really play melee like how you play brawl, and vice versa.
No magnet ledge grabbing, better edge game, superior air dodge, more distance at lower percentages, less campy, and no Metaknight, among other things.
This after your previous post:
Terrazi Terrajin
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2013
- Messages
- 831
So you did it because I did it?
My point still stands, if someone thinks melee is only good because of those 2 mechanics, they /are/ tools.
My point still stands, if someone thinks melee is only good because of those 2 mechanics, they /are/ tools.
VA3TO
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 75
You say it makes Melee worse which is an incorrect statement. You should of said "Is different from Brawl to which I am not used to". Melee from a game standpoint is completely superior to Brawl.
My point: Stop being hypocritical.
Starcutter
Resident Beedrill
WORSE IN MY OPINION. WHICH MEANS I LIKE BRAWL MORE.
Also, I actually DID said something like what you said I should have said, if you were paying attention:
I never said that melee was a bad game. it's actually really good. why else would I buy it even after brawl?
now, if you anybody is not willing to co-operate, I might as well leave you close-minded melee fans here.
(I'm not saying all melee fans are close minded, just that some are)
VA3TO
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 75
But it doesn't make Melee WORSE you just DON'T LIKE it which is an OPINION.
The fact is Melee is NOT worse than Brawl, you just prefer Brawl.
Starcutter
Resident Beedrill
fine, then in your opinion melee is better.
I really don't get what you are trying to say.
This still happens in Brawl. You're never really going to stop this. People get just as upset when DDD is chain grabbing them across the stage as they do when getting dominated in Melee. In my experience even more so.
VA3TO
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 75
Haha I can see you are not quite getting it.
Melee is a BETTER game, this is a fact. The controls are smoother and more responsive, the physics are just right and everything works as it should.
Brawl has tripping, that's more than enough right there I don't need to explain any more.
You can PREFER to play Brawl but you CANNOT say it is a better game, when it isn't. I enjoy playing Brawl but it is no WAY a better game.
Starcutter
Resident Beedrill
well, I can say the same thing about brawl. (except tripping. **** that)
everyone has personal preferences, and yours is heavy, fast characters. Mine is characters that don't fall as fast, and slower characters so I can respond better in certain situations. I also have more fun playing with my friends in brawl, not to mention that brawl has more unique characters and stages.
there's the thing. it's all about opinion. nothing is clearly the better game until EVERYONE agrees that it is. as soon as one person comes out and says that they like another game better, it is no longer a PURE FACT that it is a better game. it is now an opinion.
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
They why the ever loving **** are you even on the SSB4 threads then? No, seriously, why are you here? If Melee is the end all to be all game, then GTFO, this is for people who are actually looking forward to a new smash game, not a bunch of threads for you to extoll the virtues of Melee and talk about how this game will never be as good. There are other threads on this site for that, go to one of those.
Renji64
Smash Lord
The Progression has stopped with the series now it is pretty much hit the rest button. My expectations are low if it falls short I'll have Project M to look forward too.
Renji64
Smash Lord
I meant progression i just worded it wrong the series has devolved.
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
Again with the talk of how Melee is the greatest game ever. Why are you here if no game is going to top it? If this is just going to be worse than Brawl (I'm not touching that topic with a ten-foot standard issue pole) then why even stick around? If the series has continued to devolve, as you said it did, then there is no point for you to even be here as this will simply be a letdown for you. Let us casual peasants enjoy our new game and you can stick to your holy, divine game of awesome or whatever.
Renji64
Smash Lord
http://prntscr.com/1cageh Sakurai said Brawl was for beginners lol there is no debate. I just want to see the series improve it feels like it went down this will be kinda of a rest point. It will never reach it's peak again I enjoy the series i will tell the truth.
If the thread title was "Positive Features of Super Smash Bros. for WiiU and 3DS" you'd have a point. Right now you're telling people they're not allowed to express they're opinion because they are different than yours. News flash: you can't decide what people choose to express. You can't tell people to post on another thread when this one is entirely relevant and on topic with what Renji64 was implying. Nobody has to talk about only what you want to talk about. Learn to play nice Narcissist.
XavierSylfaen
Smash Apprentice
You're right. I just wish Sakurai would do a straight port of Melee for Wii U with the only differences being rendered in 1080p and having SSB4's netcode tacked on for us. If he buffed low tiers that would be great but I wouldn't mind even if he didn't Sort of like Wind Waker HD, but don't even bother with adding a new lighting engine or bloom or anything. If he released this like a year after SSB4 (as not to hurt sales) then I would immediately quit all my ******** because I would have got what I wanted. It's really a no-brainer, it would obviously sell. I'd buy SSB4 Wii U, SSB4 3DS, and SSBM U all on release, and have fun playing them all online.
I realize that we are in no way owed this, but it is frustrating knowing that it could exist and would make money but will in all likelihood not exist.
I think you're trying a little too hard. You could say that there are certain parts of Melee that are objectively better, i.e. no random 1-2 frame input lag, but you can't really say it's a better game as a whole. Brawl has a lot of good points too, like more characters, more music, more stages, etc.
You could say that Melee is preferred by most competitive players and then back that up with various reasons, but you can't really say objectively that Brawl is "bad".
VA3TO
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 75
[/quote]
You could say that Melee is preferred by most competitive players and then back that up with various reasons, but you can't really say objectively that Brawl is "bad"
.[/quote]
To me the amount of content a game has to offer does not impact it's overall value, unless the game requires said content in order to be enjoyed. Pokemon for example requires lots of Pokemon to catch thus making the game "better".
Just because a game has more characters does not make it better.
You could say that Melee is preferred by most competitive players and then back that up with various reasons, but you can't really say objectively that Brawl is "bad"
.[/quote]
To me the amount of content a game has to offer does not impact it's overall value, unless the game requires said content in order to be enjoyed. Pokemon for example requires lots of Pokemon to catch thus making the game "better".
Just because a game has more characters does not make it better.
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
What...the...
Okay, so apparently it's okay to sit here degrading the new Smash Bros game while extolling how holy and perfect Melee is in a sub-section dedicated to information and peoples hopes for a new game? And I'M narcissistic? I haven't said the game is good or bad. I'm just sick of hearing how perfect Melee is.
And I'm sick of you being an anus about everything. Knock it off.
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
Why, because I'd like to have discussions on a new Smash Brothers game without having to hear about an older one and how amazing it is?
Renji64
Smash Lord
Melee is not perfect it has it's flaws but in they improved that formula instead of pretty much downgrading so bad for newer players and now trying to hit the reset button on the series. Who knows how amazing smash could have been.
Again, not everyone has to talk about what you want to talk about.
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
But this is a thread for Smash Brothers 4! Why would you talk about anything other than Smash Brothers 4 in a thread SPECIFICALLY FOR SMASH BROTHERS-
...
You're a troll. You have to be. No one can be that obstinate about trying to move the topic away from what it's supposed to be than a troll.
Well played good sir!
But this is a thread for Smash Brothers 4! Why would you talk about anything other than Smash Brothers 4 in a thread SPECIFICALLY FOR SMASH BROTHERS-
...
You're a troll. You have to be. No one can be that obstinate about trying to move the topic away from what it's supposed to be than a troll.
Comparing SSB4 to a past installment is still very much on topic. Ugh.
![[Corn]](/data/avatars/l/219/219175.jpg?1363907352){kind=avatar}
[Corn]
Smash Ace
I hope you all realize that all of the Smash Games are basically different games in themselves, and a new one being released wont make the old ones go away....If you dont like the new game play the old.
We should basically be expecting anything that could happen and not siting any specific games or such.
Its one thing to hope a mechanic that you enjoyed will make it back, but its another thing entirely to treat that opinion as a fact and try to convince everyone of its superiority and bash the others.
I wouldn't be disappointed at all if the new game was a middle ground between Melee and Brawl for everything nor would I be disapointed if the game was completely unique.
One thing that I would be dissapointed in, would be if we have another issue like MK and we dont ban him before he causes actual damage to the community and its reputation. I see no harm in banning a character such as that.
What I would be majorly disapointed in however, is if the community creates another separation because a group cannot stick to what they like without bashing the other one for no reason. You don't see people who play Badminton bashing on Tennis players publicly do you?
We should basically be expecting anything that could happen and not siting any specific games or such.
Its one thing to hope a mechanic that you enjoyed will make it back, but its another thing entirely to treat that opinion as a fact and try to convince everyone of its superiority and bash the others.
I wouldn't be disappointed at all if the new game was a middle ground between Melee and Brawl for everything nor would I be disapointed if the game was completely unique.
One thing that I would be dissapointed in, would be if we have another issue like MK and we dont ban him before he causes actual damage to the community and its reputation. I see no harm in banning a character such as that.
What I would be majorly disapointed in however, is if the community creates another separation because a group cannot stick to what they like without bashing the other one for no reason. You don't see people who play Badminton bashing on Tennis players publicly do you?
mimgrim
Smash Hero
I have allot against this right here, for the longest time I was a casual player, heck still am basically as I have only recently try to get into the competitive scene and have only been to 1 Smashfest so far and won't be able to go again till next week, yet as a casual player I always prefered no items and bla bla bla and the reason I stayed casualy wa sbecause I had other people to play with at the time along with Wifi compatibla with Wii but since moving I lost both of thos things and I got tired og playing against the stupid CPU. But I never got Smash cause I wanted to play Mario VS Luigi I got Smash cause of the idea of it being different from other Fighting games as I was never any good at your typical fighting game with how they required, imo, to pull off absurd combos by moving the control stick a certain way (not just tilting it like in Smash) and then pressing like 7 friggen button very fast, I'm just not good at doing that. If I had tried to get into competitive Melee I probably wouldn't be here today because I am unable to pull of those kinds of combos, and believe I have tried. I actually prefer Brawl from a gameplay standpoint, sure the tripping is stupid but eh I get over it and deal with it, as you aren't always guaranteed to get in that combo or even have a clear victory. But hey I'm not looking for a Brawl 2.0 or anything nor a Melee 2.0. I am looking for Smash 4, it's own game that will not be clone of either game.
But hey that's just me~
[Corn]
Smash Ace
This is exactly what I prefer, perfect statement.
mimgrim
Smash Hero
Aside form the "2.2" typo of mine.
