The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

[IWantMyBurd]

I'm bored, so I'm going to make a Palu's Guidance for our boi

Pit: Wow, and here I thought Cloud was having a bad hair day...
Viridi: It's not just the hair. Lloyd is a walking fashion disaster!
Palutena: Well, he was raised by a dwarf. He's probably just not used to other people's standards for personal appearance.
Pit: Raised by a dwarf? But he's human, isn't he? How'd that come about?
Palutena: Lloyd Irving's mother was killed by half-elven Desians when he was young. A dwarf named Dirk found them both and took him in. He went on to topple the Desians and save his world with the power of his mother's Exsphere.
Pit: Exsphere... That's that gem on his hand, right? What does it do, exactly?
Viridi: Along with enhancing Lloyd's physical abilities, his Exsphere gives him access to special moves called Techs. They're flashy, but not that powerful, so don't worry too much about getting hit by them.
Pit: Really? Well, if you say so-
Palutena: Viridi, are you trying to help Lloyd win this fight?
Viridi: What?! That's- why in the world would I do that?!
Palutena: Could it be that he reminds you of another clueless yet well-meaning and brave warrior you care about? One with brown hair and twin blades who saved his world, perhaps?
Viridi: No, he- I'm not- you-! UGH! Forget this! I'm leaving!
Pit: ... Wait, who are you talking about, Lady Palutena?

 

[Desert Croc]

On one hand, I feel kinda bad for Bamco, considering they if Vergeben is to be believed they would have been jipped AGAIN if not for additional DLC. On the other hand, like you said, unless the next character is a sword fighter or they decide to randomly drop it here, Lloyd has a good shot to be avoided again for a mii costume. Still think a Bamco character must be coming post pass considering all Bamco costumes are still MIA. Oh well, time will tell. Usually I would say who I'm predicting next for FP 5, but honestly at this point I have literally no clue lol.

I feel you man. I’ve lost the will to speculate who FP5 is because it feels pointless when Sabi, Verge or some other leaker/insider comes forward and deconfirms them. If anything, my gut tells me that it’s going to be a jaw dropper, someone who no one is speculating like Joker was. If the leakers continue to make us play a game of Celebrity Heads instead of actually telling us or at least hinting at the character, they must know that spilling the beans would get them into hot water with Nintendo, who want to keep the character a secret.

Also, I can’t see why they wouldn’t know the character. They keep on telling us who it isn’t and Sakurai has finished adding the final touches. Not only that but Nintendo must be holding them back for the TGA because they know it’ll get a big reaction from crowds.

These are probably going to be my final thoughts on the matter. I might be wrong in the end but with all of this suspicious behaviour, I can’t help but wonder what is really in store for us.

 

[BlackInk]

I feel you man. I’ve lost the will to speculate who FP5 is because it feels pointless when Sabi, Verge or some other leaker/insider comes forward and deconfirms them. If anything, my gut tells me that it’s going to be a jaw dropper, someone who no one is speculating like Joker was. If the leakers continue to make us play a game of Celebrity Heads instead of actually telling us or at least hinting at the character, they must know that spilling the beans would get them into hot water with Nintendo, who want to keep the character a secret.

Also, I can’t see why they wouldn’t know the character. They keep on telling us who it isn’t and Sakurai has finished adding the final touches. Not only that but Nintendo must be holding them back for the TGA because they know it’ll get a big reaction from crowds.

These are probably going to be my final thoughts on the matter. I might be wrong in the end but with all of this suspicious behaviour, I can’t help but wonder what is really in store for us.

My hopeless guess is Hollow Knight. The obvious one is Reimu. The formal is more linked in Nintendo recently and the latter obviously has everything in comparison.

 

[Midget Master]

FP5 is a big ????? for me. Never really liked Lloyd for it anyway. But I quite strongly think that our boy may be number six or seven. Hopefully there's no costume incidents to worry about in the upcoming character's addition.

 

[andree123]

Bandai Namco recently filed these trademarks: one for the "Tales of Series" logo and the other for what looks like a save icon.https://t.co/cBHPqI98vlhttps://t.co/OHE5wwqYDR pic.twitter.com/0gm5sAYSH1

— Gematsu (@gematsu) October 8, 2019

I hope in today we will see the Bamco trademarked icon for the Tales of series in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

 

[Nightguything]

So apparently Arkham legacy is the new Batman game coming, still wondering if this is the project Scott was referring to though..

 

[andree123]

So apparently Arkham legacy is the new Batman game coming, still wondering if this is the project Scott was referring to though..

He talked about DC stuff almost every day, so I don't think this is likely,

 

[Icedragonadam]

Well that was a waste of 3 hours. That said though the rumored Batman game is that Telltale games and I haven't seen Scott tweet about that. At this point I don't know what to believe for FP5.

 

[andree123]

Smashfans at the TGAs.
EDIT:
We still have hope for him to join in smash.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

i wasnt necessarily expecting a smash reveal but there really wasnt anything at the game awards for nintendo fans

 

[VashTehStampede]

Lloyd is back on the table bois and gurls

 

[Ypsen]

Lloyd is back on the table bois and gurls

You mean for FP5 ? Did Verge or Sabi change their statement about Bamco/Lloyd for the FP5 ?

 

[Nightguything]

Yea, I wasn’t expecting a reveal at TGA but I’m not sure if the lack of one brought Lloyd back for FP5

 

[nessdeltarune00]

After seeing that recent kill list from Vergeben, I have officially thrown in the white towel for speculating FP5. My focus is now on post pass.

That being said, add me to the support list for Lloyd. After playing Symphonia for a bit, I’ve decided that he would be a great addition to the series.

 

[frozolloyd]

After seeing that recent kill list from Vergeben, I have officially thrown in the white towel for speculating FP5. My focus is now on post pass.

That being said, add me to the support list for Lloyd. After playing Symphonia for a bit, I’ve decided that he would be a great addition to the series.

Glad to have you officially on board! However, as the thread creator hasn't been on in quite a while and no on else can edit the supporter list, it might be a while if at all until you can be added (I requested a while ago and still haven't been added yet lol).

 

[Deleted member]

Yea, I wasn’t expecting a reveal at TGA but I’m not sure if the lack of one brought Lloyd back for FP5

It didn’t. Lack of a reveal at TGAs has nothing to do with a debunk list.

 

[Grotesque Floyd]

Floyd is flop + Lloyd.

 

[andree123]

Floyd is flop + Lloyd.

Did you actually made this?

 

[Nazyrus]

Ugh no offense but the last thing we want is to be compared to steveposters…

 

[Ura]

NGL...

I really dig Floydposting. Much more than I did Grotesque Steve.

Plus he looks like one of those Pixar villains as well and I find that really hilarious.

 

[Looma]

What's even the correlation? Steve at least had the prospect of being a divisive character stealing the spot from Banjo & Kazooie, a long time major request. There's no joke here because Lloyd is fairly uncontroversial. Terrible trolling technique, the approach is all kinds of wrong.

 

[Nazyrus]

What's even the correlation? Steve at least had the prospect of being a divisive character stealing the spot from Banjo & Kazooie, a long time major request. There's no joke here because Lloyd is fairly uncontroversial. Terrible trolling technique, the approach is all kinds of wrong.

I literally just meant it by the creation of an ugly 3d model lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

What's even the correlation? Steve at least had the prospect of being a divisive character stealing the spot from Banjo & Kazooie, a long time major request. There's no joke here because Lloyd is fairly uncontroversial. Terrible trolling technique, the approach is all kinds of wrong.

Also, part of the reason why that ugly Steve model existed is because of people wondering if they'd make him HD or not in order to make Steve expressive. Lloyd doesn't have that issue.

 

[Looma]

I literally just meant it by the creation of an ugly 3d model lol

U good homie, I wasn't aiming at you.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I really hope this Flloydposting thing doesn't become as toxic as Grotesque Steve. Be careful with that guys, people have a habit of judging entire fanbases on a few bad eggs

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

What's even the correlation? Steve at least had the prospect of being a divisive character stealing the spot from Banjo & Kazooie, a long time major request. There's no joke here because Lloyd is fairly uncontroversial. Terrible trolling technique, the approach is all kinds of wrong.

Ever heard of Heihachi? Namco's most iconic character besides Pac-Man? From Namco's most successful and important franchise? Who was already considered by Sakurai to get into Smash? Who appeared in all sorts of crossovers, from tennis games to platformers? Who even Harada said got way more requests than any Tales character?

"The fans, rather than asking about Tales or Gundam or some of our other franchises, the fans abroad saw Tekken as one of the key words and took off on that," he says. "We're not really sure at this moment but when thinking of the playerbase who is playing Smash Bros., maybe Tekken characters is something they wouldn't want, so I've been pulling back on that a bit. But I don't know."

https://www.engadget.com/2012/07/10/harada-pulling-back-on-idea-of-tekken-characters-in-new-smash/

 

[nessdeltarune00]

On which websie did the “Floyd” posting started?

Because it has already spread to Gamefaqs.

 

[Fitmanonice]

I think Lloyd Irving has a really high chance to end up in Smash as a mii costume at least. His moveset would be mostly Mii Swordfighter+ anyway.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I think Lloyd Irving has a really high chance to end up in Smash as a mii costume at least. His moveset would be mostly Mii Swordfighter+ anyway.

K

 

[GameWatching]

What happened to this thread

 

[Fatmanonice]

Aside from Geno, I think Lloyd has some of the best chances of any fan favorite character to be part of post pass. Him and Geno honestly share a lot of similarities:

-Been fan requests for approximately 5 billion years

-High praise from Big Daddy Sakurai himself

-Mii costume in Smash 4 that's totally MIA

-Heard in insider circles for over a year

In a shocking twist of events, I actually have more confidence in Lloyd than Geno for the following reasons:

-The Tales trademark thingy is uncannily similar to what happened to Banjo last fall. Basically the trademark thingy was a wide cast net and not only covers video games but just about any kind of merchandise you could think of. Namco probably has big plans for Tales for 2020 and, on that note...

-As Nazyrus has brought up here, the NoA ambassador that we both talk to reported that Nintendo was hardcore teasing its employees about some kind of eventual Tales announcement as far back as September and coincidentally around the same time as all the trademark stuff came out. This was one big thing that made me believe that Lloyd was originally going to be 5 until the same NoA ambassador said "no Namco, no Capcom" about two months later.

-Namco is obviously one of the developers for Smash Ultimate but it's not as commonly known that the team that typically develops the Tales games has been very heavily involved too and, in fact, was also on board for Smash 4 Your Mom too.

-Note my theory crafting from yesterday: https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2099#post-23746654

It doesn't take much to guess who I think the Super Mysterious Character 64 is. Why do I think he'll beat out Heihachi? Well, along with the previous points:

-Sakurai has already stated that implementing Tekken characters into Smash was extremely difficult. When Sakurai has "technical difficulties", things usually stop there. He's mentioned a lot of characters over the years like Mach Rider, Bubbles, and Sukapon that were ultimately dumped because he couldn't get them to work. The one and only exception is Ridley and Sakurai pretty much full on admits he did it because of the character's overwhelmingly popularity. Heihachi doesn't have that. He's iconic but he doesn't have a half crazed fanbase like in the cases of Ridley and Sonic to "pressure" their addition. In other words, the work isn't worth the effort. A pain in the ass character isn't worth the time or resources if the overall reaction will be kind of "meh."

-Heihachi was in the base game as part of Pac-Man's taunt. Not exactly damning on its own but when you consider that it was totally new for Ultimate, features the more iconic and prevalent "old" Heihachi instead of the "young" version from Smash 4 Days, and that Pac-Man's taunt is a grab bag of Namco franchises but Tales is totally MIA, it's definitely telling.

-Tekken's presence on Nintendo's platforms is pretty weak, especially in comparison to Tales. Tales has had multiple main line games that were Nintendo exclusives at some point in their history, with Symphonia being especially notable. Tekken has only had spin-offs and cameos. Tekken is Tek-nically the bigger series over all but it's another situation similar to Megaman: Megaman is the 4th best selling Capcom franchise overall but is so heavily intertwined with Nintendo's history that people even often consider Megaman a "Nintendo" character. On that note, Heihachi was literally in PlayStation All Stars so that further solidifies that point. In a head to head battle, Tales is simply more "Nintendo."

All this said, I think Lloyd's looking pretty strong. I don't know when he'll arrive but, as pointed out in my Mii costume post, if the original plan was to bring back all the Smash 4 DLC costumes then Lloyd's ass(ets) was already negotiated for a long time ago, just like Geno. With that in mind, it's now just playing the waiting game. Do I think Lloyd will probably be tied to the mysterious Tales Switch announcement? Abso****inloutely. When will that be? Uh... That's a lot harder to nail down but I will say that I do have a lot of confidence that he'll definitely be part of "Season 2" and possibly even an E3 reveal.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Aside from Geno, I think Lloyd has some of the best chances of any fan favorite character to be part of post pass. Him and Geno honestly share a lot of similarities:

-Been fan requests for approximately 5 billion years

-High praise from Big Daddy Sakurai himself

-Mii costume in Smash 4 that's totally MIA

-Heard in insider circles for over a year

In a shocking twist of events, I actually have more confidence in Lloyd than Geno for the following reasons:

-The Tales trademark thingy is uncannily similar to what happened to Banjo last fall. Basically the trademark thingy was a wide cast net and not only covers video games but just about any kind of merchandise you could think of. Namco probably has big plans for Tales for 2020 and, on that note...

-As Nazyrus has brought up here, the NoA ambassador that we both talk to reported that Nintendo was hardcore teasing its employees about some kind of eventual Tales announcement as far back as September and coincidentally around the same time as all the trademark stuff came out. This was one big thing that made me believe that Lloyd was originally going to be 5 until the same NoA ambassador said "no Namco, no Capcom" about two months later.

-Namco is obviously one of the developers for Smash Ultimate but it's not as commonly known that the team that typically develops the Tales games has been very heavily involved too and, in fact, was also on board for Smash 4 Your Mom too.

-Note my theory crafting from yesterday: https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2099#post-23746654

It doesn't take much to guess who I think the Super Mysterious Character 64 is. Why do I think he'll beat out Heihachi? Well, along with the previous points:

-Sakurai has already stated that implementing Tekken characters into Smash was extremely difficult. When Sakurai has "technical difficulties", things usually stop there. He's mentioned a lot of characters over the years like Mach Rider, Bubbles, and Sukapon that were ultimately dumped because he couldn't get them to work. The one and only exception is Ridley and Sakurai pretty much full on admits he did it because of the character's overwhelmingly popularity. Heihachi doesn't have that. He's iconic but he doesn't have a half crazed fanbase like in the cases of Ridley and Sonic to "pressure" their addition. In other words, the work isn't worth the effort. A pain in the ass character isn't worth the time or resources if the overall reaction will be kind of "meh."

-Heihachi was in the base game as part of Pac-Man's taunt. Not exactly damning on its own but when you consider that it was totally new for Ultimate, features the more iconic and prevalent "old" Heihachi instead of the "young" version from Smash 4 Days, and that Pac-Man's taunt is a grab bag of Namco franchises but Tales is totally MIA, it's definitely telling.

-Tekken's presence on Nintendo's platforms is pretty weak, especially in comparison to Tales. Tales has had multiple main line games that were Nintendo exclusives at some point in their history, with Symphonia being especially notable. Tekken has only had spin-offs and cameos. Tekken is Tek-nically the bigger series over all but it's another situation similar to Megaman: Megaman is the 4th best selling Capcom franchise overall but is so heavily intertwined with Nintendo's history that people even often consider Megaman a "Nintendo" character. On that note, Heihachi was literally in PlayStation All Stars so that further solidifies that point. In a head to head battle, Tales is simply more "Nintendo."

All this said, I think Lloyd's looking pretty strong. I don't know when he'll arrive but, as pointed out in my Mii costume post, if the original plan was to bring back all the Smash 4 DLC costumes then Lloyd's ass(ets) was already negotiated for a long time ago, just like Geno. With that in mind, it's now just playing the waiting game. Do I think Lloyd will probably be tied to the mysterious Tales Switch announcement? Abso****inloutely. When will that be? Uh... That's a lot harder to nail down but I will say that I do have a lot of confidence that he'll definitely be part of "Season 2" and possibly even an E3 reveal.

Pardon my questioning Mr. Fatmanonice but, given those old Kos Mos rumors, how do we know he’s not gonna get mii costumed?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Pardon my questioning Mr. Fatmanonice but, given those old Kos Mos rumors, how do we know he’s not gonna get mii costumed?

I kind of cover that in the post I linked but I'll try to summarize it since I know I tend to wax poetic;

-There's decent evidence that when the Fighter's Pass was originally one and done (5 characters and no more), the original plan was to bring back all the 3rd party costumes from Smash 4. That said, Lloyd's assets have already been negotiated for.

-If we follow the Power of Six Theory, Lloyd's Mii costume was originally planned for Fighter 5 and there's strong evidence for this because, following the other passes, the remaining Mii costumes of the original 15 are Lloyd, Gil, Rathalos, and Monster Hunter. Four swordsmen with three of them having heavy armor and helmets. The theming seems deliberate. Joker came with SEGA Smash 4 costumes. Hero was probably originally planned to have Geno and Chocobo. Banjo was probably originally planned to have all four of the Megaman costumes. Terry's were all fighting game characters.

-With how things have changed, each pass except Hero has come with two Smash 4 costumes. The pairings have always been from the same company and series: Tails and Knuckles, Akira and Jacky, and Protoman and Zero. This establishes the theory that 5's "pairing" will be Rathalos and Monster Hunter.

All in all, this points to Lloyd, like Geno, avoiding the axe for the Fighter's Pass.

Now, why do I doubt Kos-Mos?

-Never came up in insider circles. Recently have had some new contacts who shared with me even more names that supposedly the developers pitched at Sakurai and, lo and behold, Kos-Mos wasn't there either. I can't share all the names but I will say that these characters probably won't make the cut and were more of "hey Sakurai, wouldn't it be neat if..." sort of thing and the equivalent of a kid tugging on their dad's pant leg in a toy store. For example, Ms. Pac-Man and Gooigi were names (presumably echoes) that were spitballed for DLC but were likely met with a light chuckle and moved away from. On this note, Nightmare (also Namco) was another name these contacts were on the "not seriously considered list" which makes me wish I knew this like a month ago...

-Kos-Mos is pretty niche. Xenosaga and Xenogears kind of flubbed and I don't believe any of the games came to Nintendo platforms either. Xenoblade is technically a spin-off but in the thinnest sense of the definition.

-Going off the previous note, Xenoblade is now the definitive Nintendo Xeno series and Xenogears/Xenosaga hasn't had a game since 2006, even before Brawl. "But Fatman, what about Banjo?" It's not the same. Nintendo used to basically own Banjo Kazooie, both of the main games were extremely successful, and Banjo was easily one of the most requested characters for Smash. There's no comparison.

-Going back to the Mii costumes, it's heavily implied that 5's Mii costumes were originally meant to follow the theme of swords, armor, and helmets with three following a medieval fantasy theme. Kos-Mos is quite the opposite of this. She fights with a gun and is from the future. She's a polar opposite in almost every regard. Now, people have made the argument that she would fit with the currently MIA Megaman costumes but, as my post pointed out, they were likely originally meant for Banjo. The only similarities that Kos-Mos shares with Lloyd and Gil is that they're all Namco but, again, the theming of the passes appears to be deliberate. Tails and Knuckles kind of clash with Joker but, at the end of the day, they're all technically SEGA characters. Akira and Jacky belong to SEGA, not SNK, but the overall theme of fighting games is still there.

So, uh, I guess I wasn't exactly brief but those are my thoughts on the matter.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Pardon my questioning Mr. Fatmanonice but, given those old Kos Mos rumors, how do we know he’s not gonna get mii costumed?

Those rumors got debunked at the VGAs, don’t worry about it.

Your main concern should be Heihachi sending Lloyd to the Mii Costume realm.

I kind of cover that in the post I linked but I'll try to summarize it since I know I tend to wax poetic;

-There's decent evidence that when the Fighter's Pass was originally one and done (5 characters and no more), the original plan was to bring back all the 3rd party costumes from Smash 4. That said, Lloyd's assets have already been negotiated for.

-If we follow the Power of Six Theory, Lloyd's Mii costume was originally planned for Fighter 5 and there's strong evidence for this because, following the other passes, the remaining Mii costumes of the original 15 are Lloyd, Gil, Rathalos, and Monster Hunter. Four swordsmen with three of them having heavy armor and helmets. The theming seems deliberate. Joker came with SEGA Smash 4 costumes. Hero was probably originally planned to have Geno and Chocobo. Banjo was probably originally planned to have all four of the Megaman costumes. Terry's were all fighting game characters.

-With how things have changed, each pass except Hero has come with two Smash 4 costumes. The pairings have always been from the same company and series: Tails and Knuckles, Akira and Jacky, and Protoman and Zero. This establishes the theory that 5's "pairing" will be Rathalos and Monster Hunter.

All in all, this points to Lloyd, like Geno, avoiding the axe for the Fighter's Pass.

Now, why do I doubt Kos-Mos?

-Never came up in insider circles. Recently have had some new contacts who shared with me even more names that supposedly the developers pitched at Sakurai and, lo and behold, Kos-Mos wasn't there either. I can't share all the names but I will say that these characters probably won't make the cut and were more of "hey Sakurai, wouldn't it be neat if..." sort of thing and the equivalent of a kid tugging on their dad's pant leg in a toy store. For example, Ms. Pac-Man and Gooigi were names (presumably echoes) that were spitballed for DLC but were likely met with a light chuckle and moved away from. On this note, Nightmare (also Namco) was another name these contacts were on the "not seriously considered list" which makes me wish I knew this like a month ago...

-Kos-Mos is pretty niche. Xenosaga and Xenogears kind of flubbed and I don't believe any of the games came to Nintendo platforms either. Xenoblade is technically a spin-off but in the thinnest sense of the definition.

-Going off the previous note, Xenoblade is now the definitive Nintendo Xeno series and Xenogears/Xenosaga hasn't had a game since 2006, even before Brawl. "But Fatman, what about Banjo?" It's not the same. Nintendo used to basically own Banjo Kazooie, both of the main games were extremely successful, and Banjo was easily one of the most requested characters for Smash. There's no comparison.

-Going back to the Mii costumes, it's heavily implied that 5's Mii costumes were originally meant to follow the theme of swords, armor, and helmets with three following a medieval fantasy theme. Kos-Mos is quite the opposite of this. She fights with a gun and is from the future. She's a polar opposite in almost every regard. Now, people have made the argument that she would fit with the currently MIA Megaman costumes but, as my post pointed out, they were likely originally meant for Banjo. The only similarities that Kos-Mos shares with Lloyd and Gil is that they're all Namco but, again, the theming of the passes appears to be deliberate. Tails and Knuckles kind of clash with Joker but, at the end of the day, they're all technically SEGA characters. Akira and Jacky belong to SEGA, not SNK, but the overall theme of fighting games is still there.

So, uh, I guess I wasn't exactly brief but those are my thoughts on the matter.

Are these “new names” you are talking about for post pass or FP5?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Those rumors got debunked at the VGAs, don’t worry about it.

Your main concern should be Heihachi sending Lloyd to the Mii Costume realm.



Are these “new names” you are talking about for post pass or FP5?

The new names aren't anything. Basically it was a sample list of like 8 characters that were supposedly pitched at Sakurai by the developers but were dead on arrival. Gooigi, Ms. Pac-Man, and Nightmare were three of them. I'll ask the contacts if I can share the others but I'm kind of doubting it. Two of them were indie characters which further deepens my stance that a playable indie character probably isn't happening.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

The new names aren't anything. Basically it was a sample list of like 8 characters that were supposedly pitched at Sakurai by the developers but were dead on arrival. Gooigi, Ms. Pac-Man, and Nightmare were three of them. I'll ask the contacts if I can share the others but I'm kind of doubting it. Two of them were indie characters which further deepens my stance that a playable indie character probably isn't happening.

Going to take a wild guess on who the indie characters were.

Quote and Frisk?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Basically the names were pitched at Sakurai and he responded in the following way:

Add in: they got back with me and said not to share the others. I shared the two echoes because Sakurai basically deconfirmed echoes himself last year and Nightmare has been public for over a month.

 

[frozolloyd]

Aside from Geno, I think Lloyd has some of the best chances of any fan favorite character to be part of post pass. Him and Geno honestly share a lot of similarities:

-Been fan requests for approximately 5 billion years

-High praise from Big Daddy Sakurai himself

-Mii costume in Smash 4 that's totally MIA

-Heard in insider circles for over a year

In a shocking twist of events, I actually have more confidence in Lloyd than Geno for the following reasons:

-The Tales trademark thingy is uncannily similar to what happened to Banjo last fall. Basically the trademark thingy was a wide cast net and not only covers video games but just about any kind of merchandise you could think of. Namco probably has big plans for Tales for 2020 and, on that note...

-As Nazyrus has brought up here, the NoA ambassador that we both talk to reported that Nintendo was hardcore teasing its employees about some kind of eventual Tales announcement as far back as September and coincidentally around the same time as all the trademark stuff came out. This was one big thing that made me believe that Lloyd was originally going to be 5 until the same NoA ambassador said "no Namco, no Capcom" about two months later.

-Namco is obviously one of the developers for Smash Ultimate but it's not as commonly known that the team that typically develops the Tales games has been very heavily involved too and, in fact, was also on board for Smash 4 Your Mom too.

-Note my theory crafting from yesterday: https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2099#post-23746654

It doesn't take much to guess who I think the Super Mysterious Character 64 is. Why do I think he'll beat out Heihachi? Well, along with the previous points:

-Sakurai has already stated that implementing Tekken characters into Smash was extremely difficult. When Sakurai has "technical difficulties", things usually stop there. He's mentioned a lot of characters over the years like Mach Rider, Bubbles, and Sukapon that were ultimately dumped because he couldn't get them to work. The one and only exception is Ridley and Sakurai pretty much full on admits he did it because of the character's overwhelmingly popularity. Heihachi doesn't have that. He's iconic but he doesn't have a half crazed fanbase like in the cases of Ridley and Sonic to "pressure" their addition. In other words, the work isn't worth the effort. A pain in the ass character isn't worth the time or resources if the overall reaction will be kind of "meh."

-Heihachi was in the base game as part of Pac-Man's taunt. Not exactly damning on its own but when you consider that it was totally new for Ultimate, features the more iconic and prevalent "old" Heihachi instead of the "young" version from Smash 4 Days, and that Pac-Man's taunt is a grab bag of Namco franchises but Tales is totally MIA, it's definitely telling.

-Tekken's presence on Nintendo's platforms is pretty weak, especially in comparison to Tales. Tales has had multiple main line games that were Nintendo exclusives at some point in their history, with Symphonia being especially notable. Tekken has only had spin-offs and cameos. Tekken is Tek-nically the bigger series over all but it's another situation similar to Megaman: Megaman is the 4th best selling Capcom franchise overall but is so heavily intertwined with Nintendo's history that people even often consider Megaman a "Nintendo" character. On that note, Heihachi was literally in PlayStation All Stars so that further solidifies that point. In a head to head battle, Tales is simply more "Nintendo."

All this said, I think Lloyd's looking pretty strong. I don't know when he'll arrive but, as pointed out in my Mii costume post, if the original plan was to bring back all the Smash 4 DLC costumes then Lloyd's ass(ets) was already negotiated for a long time ago, just like Geno. With that in mind, it's now just playing the waiting game. Do I think Lloyd will probably be tied to the mysterious Tales Switch announcement? Abso****inloutely. When will that be? Uh... That's a lot harder to nail down but I will say that I do have a lot of confidence that he'll definitely be part of "Season 2" and possibly even an E3 reveal.

Honestly its good to see someone come in to the thread being positive after we have had a few people come in here only to laugh at Lloyd's chances. Thanks, man. Second, since you seem to be in contact with more insiders then most, is the general consensus right now that no one actually knows who FP5 is? Between Vergeben, Sabi and the NoA ambassador only giving deconfirmations, I'm wondering if this is more so because FP5 still is a little while away (thus exposing the insider) or if Namco started to crack down on leaks.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Honestly its good to see someone come in to the thread being positive after we have had a few people come in here only to laugh at Lloyd's chances. Thanks, man. Second, since you seem to be in contact with more insiders then most, is the general consensus right now that no one actually knows who FP5 is? Between Vergeben, Sabi and the NoA ambassador only giving deconfirmations, I'm wondering if this is more so because FP5 still is a little while away (thus exposing the insider) or if Namco started to crack down on leaks.

On that front, people have had a good idea of who 5 probably is but for whatever reason people decided to be super roundabout about it. The whole Guess Who thing was really a huge waste of time. To tell you the truth, the number of characters seriously considered for 5 since September could probably be counted on a hand and thumb with the NoA ambassador honestly cutting the crap and nuking most of them himself. "No Crash, no Ryu, no Capcom, and No Namco." Like I said, my personal list for the longest time was Lloyd, Dante, Sol Badguy, and Nightmare until the NoA ambassador was like "Fatman, you EEDIOT" and curb stomped the lollygagging that was going on.

I will say that nobody wants to outright say names because Nintendo has mushroomed stamped leakers into oblivion this year which is why everyone's being careful. I will say that S*** and V****'s approach was like picking up broken glass with tweezers while the NoA ambassador was like "**** this noise" and simply got a broom and dustpan. That said, everyone's more or less reached the same two or three possible conclusions but some people did it in like three steps in three posts while others did like 400 steps across 20 posts over the course of a month and a half.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

On that front, people have had a good idea of who 5 probably is but for whatever reason people decided to be super roundabout about it. The whole Guess Who thing was really a huge waste of time. To tell you the truth, the number of characters seriously considered for 5 since September could probably be counted on a hand and thumb with the NoA ambassador honestly cutting the crap and nuking most of them himself. "No Crash, no Ryu, no Capcom, and No Namco." Like I said, my personal list for the longest time was Lloyd, Dante, Sol Badguy, and Nightmare until the NoA ambassador was like "Fatman, you EEDIOT" and curb stomped the lollygagging that was going on.

I will say that nobody wants to outright say names because Nintendo has mushroomed stamped leakers into oblivion this year which is why everyone's being careful. I will say that S*** and V****'s approach was like picking up broken glass with tweezers while the NoA ambassador was like "**** this noise" and simply got a broom and dustpan. That said, everyone's more or less reached the same two or three possible conclusions but some people did it in like three steps in three posts while others did like 400 steps across 20 posts over the course of a month and a half.

Interesting.

I wonder if this could mean that a major leak is coming soon. (Maybe not from Verge or Sabi, but possibly another source entirely?)