The Cute Baby Pokémon, the Melee underdog: Pichu for DLC Discussion - Under New Ownership! VOTE NOW!

[J04KlM]

As you all know, Pichu did not return as a playable character in Super Smash Bros Brawl. And it appears to be the same case with Super Smash Bros for 3DS and Wii U... or is it?

Super Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS is currently getting DLC, with the Fighter Ballot also being in the picture opens opportunities for Pichu's return if there is demand!

What is this Pichu you speak of?
Pichu is an electric type Pokémon that is extremely adorable. Its a baby Pokémon, so its stats are terrible, and it doesn't learn very many moves by leveling up. It has the abilities Static, and Lightning Rod, and evolves into Pikachu when it is leveled up with high friendship.
That's fun and all, but why would you want it in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds, and Wii U?
Because Pichu is a veteran in Super Smash Bros. Melee, and was really fun to play. But because he never appeared in another Smash game, and I don't own Melee, I never get to play Pichu. And with the love that the Melee veterans are getting now, I see no reason to leave Pichu out of it.
But Pichu was a joke character.
Your point?
Pichu was terrible.
And Mewtwo? The fact that Pichu wasn't the best character for competitive play shouldn't turn people off. Especially since everyone is balanced in Super Smash Bros. for 3Ds/Wii U. This argument is flawed.
Why would you pick him over other characters?
He wouldn't be picked over other characters. The only veterans that aren't likely to get in are Snake, and the Ice Climbers because they have issues. Wolf and Roy are pretty much a given at this point, and I don't see any reason why Young Link won't rejoin the fight either.
We have too many Pokémon.
I don't think Pichu would suddenly make the Pokémon franchise dominate the roster.
Come on guys! Pichu needs all the support he can get. Let's show them he has what it takes to rejoin smash!

What can Pichu bring to the game?

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In Melee, Pichu was a clone of Pikachu. His main gimmick was that he did self damage, because of this he was deemed a bad character by many. This was mainly due to the poor execution of the gimmick, as it can potentially be reworked and actually make him a competitively viable character while still holding the joke character status. Pichu is the joke character Smash Bros needs, he's adorable, and he is loved within the casual crowd because of how cute he is. A crowd that Super Smash Bros for 3DS and Wii U is being marketed to, as well the competitive crowd.

Pichu was not the worst character in Melee
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This is a misconception that hurts his reputation the most, the truth is that Pichu has been considered more viable than the likes of Mewtwo, Bowser and even Ness in previous versions of the Tier List.

The Tier List on September 14 2010
​

Right now he is above Kirby on the official SBR Tier List. Smash professional Mew2King discussed this subject and states Pichu is "highly underrated" http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...iscusses-his-super-smash-bros-tier-list-pt-1/

"Pichu was still one of the worst characters"​

So was Kirby, Bowser, Ness, Mewtwo and Mr. Game & Watch. Did that stop them from advancing forward?

Moveset Ideas and Adjustments
​

My idea is to keep the self-harming mechanic, but the more damage percent Pichu has the more stronger he gets. Sorta like Lucario's gimmick, but with increasing the offense and speed. Along with his hitboxes increasing to make him more dangerous. This way his self-harming gimmick is a lot more justified, and eliminates most of his vulnerability. As in Melee the idea was to avoid self-harming Pichu as much as possible, with this execution it becomes the opposite. Of course, Pichu's defense stays the same. So there is still that to worry about when at high damage percent.

Example:

Pichu with low damage percent: Small hitboxes, low offense and launch ability.

Pichu with higher damage percent: Bigger hitboxes, bigger offense and launch ability.

I made a rough Pichu moveset. I tried to declone him as much as possible, while still doing something realistic. His damage gimmick is still there, making him retain a glass cannon status, but even more so. I'm not a die hard Pichu fan, but I support having veterans return. Feel free to comment/criticize/make changes/ whatever you want. Enjoy!

Spoiler

Jab: body slam, tail whip, infinite tail hits, ends with back hit. Turns Pichu around. 3 hit ends with stronger tail hit, still turn pichu.

F tilt: headbutt, Pichu moves slightly forward from move

U tilt: pichu gets on hind legs and moves his head, the ears are the hitboxes, similar to pikachu's tail in his u tilt.

D tilt: pichu looks down while crouching, and pushes forward to smack with his ears for d tilt

Nair: change nothing it's perfect

Fair: basically Pikachu's f tilt but in the air. He kicks out in front of him with his hind legs.

Bair: Pichu whips his tail around behind him.

Up air: Pichu whips his ears around, similar to Pikachu's up air.

Dair: Pichu stabs his tail down fiercely, spikes at the tip.

Fsmash: Similar to Pikachu's but much more horizontal distance, more of a Short electric bolt than a burst. This attack benefits from angled fsmashes.

Usmash: Pichu gets on his hind legs, and headbutt towards the sky. Can grab opponents from the sides

Dsmash: Pichu slams his tail down behind him, full of electricity. At the same time, he headbutts at a downward angle in front of him. Stronger in back, but still a very strong move.

Dash attack: Pichu rolls into his opponent, hitting mainly with his tail.

Neutral b: Like pikachu's, but the bolt goes straight along the ground, much faster than Pikachu's. It goes almost vertical in the air.

Side b: Like Pikachu's but it cannot be charged. Sends Pichu a fixed distance but is still very long. Stuns enemy on impact.

Up b: like Pikachu's, but he can move three times. Has no electricity, but he has a hitbox.

Down b: like Pikachu's, but it is much faster and less powerful. Does no damage to Pichu unless he is hit by the end of it. Much less ending lag for Pichu as well.

Forward throw: Pichu rolls forward once and throws opponent.

Back throw: Pichu leans back and throws opponent behind him.

Up throw: Pichu gets on hind legs and throws opponent straight up.

Down throw: nuzzle - Pichu pushes opponent to the ground, and electrifies them with cheeks. Sends opponent up and away, and is able to combo.

Something like this could a whole new layer of depth to a character that was previously a clone, assuming they don't already declone him a little in his transition to Smash 4.

Having a certain percentage where his electrical attacks (which he has 8 in Melee) get stronger could make him a good user of the rage mechanic, despite being one of the lightest characters in the game. Now, others could be quick to say that rips off Lucario's aura effect. Unlike Aura, which only affects damage output (outside of Aura Sphere), Pichu's electricity mechanic could also affect hitboxes and knockback for his electrical moves.

Below are a few examples of moves that could take advantage of Pichu's electricity.
F-Smash- This move does more knockback at higher percents and it's hitbox gets more disjointed at too. It starts out as big as it is in Melee at 0%. At 70%, it's as big as Pikachu's. At 150%, it's twice as big as that. It also now consists of one hit instead of multiple and deals 2.5% self damage. Unlike other electrical moves of Pichu's, it doesn't increase in damage as Pichu is at higher percents, though it does deal 15% over Melee's 12%.

Down Smash- This move starts out like his D-Smash in Melee, but starting around 30%, an electrical field grows around Pichu when using the move, dealing a bit of damage and knockback. It grows from being tiny around 30% to being 1 Pichu around him at 150%, where rage caps and (possibly) his electrical and self-damaging mechanics. The normal hitbox could also grow more disjointed as damage adds up. Unlike in Melee, it also deals 2% self damage. At 0%, this move does 13%, at 150%, it does 17%, improving it's KO ability at higher percents. The electrical field hits 6 times dealing 0.25% at 30%, 0.5% at 100%, and 1% at 150%.

Down Air- This move only does 10% if all hits connect at 0% unlike in Melee, where it does 14%. However, with Pichu's electricity mechanic, it can do up to 19% at 150%. It's range also increases as it takes damage. If the opponent is touching Pichu's body when the last hit connects, it is a meteor smash. Unlike some other electrical moves Pichu uses, this move does not gain knockback as he takes damage. It does only do 1% recoil now as opposed to doing 1% extra if he hits the ground when using it, which was kinda pointless.

If anyone has thoughts about this, let me know. I don't want to make this mechanic sound OP or confusing.

​

Created by @Twin Shot, outstanding work!

Pro's:

​

+ He's an incredibly easy character to incorporate to the game. Pikachu's base moveset already exists for Pichu to borrow assets from, out of all the previous veterans, Pichu is by far the easiest one to incorporate in with no risks.
+ He'd bring back representation for Generation II. Of course, there are many other Pokémon that would represent Generation II better than Pichu, but they would have to be created completely from scratch, and cost a lot more effort for developing. Where as Pichu would not.
+ He's a shortcut for an increase in the roster quantity. The very reason Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit were promoted to seperate characters in the development of the game, was because they hardly required any manhours of work to do so. They were skins, and became seperate individual characters for the sole purpose of increasing the roster quantity. “This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge." - Sakurai. Pichu would be the exact same type of free dessert.
+ His cuteness. This alone makes him a worthy addition to the roster. Come on, look at how adorable he is! How can you say no to him?!

Con's:
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- Not enough demand. This is pretty much the biggest con against Pichu, the lack of vocal support of him. But hey, we can change that. That's what we're here for and what this thread is about. Let's get our voices heard!

PICHU FOR DLC!
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Discuss!

SUPPORTERS LIST​

Spoiler

~ Pichu Bros ~

J04KlM
Lucimar
Pikablu Pikachu

MEWTWOMASTER2002
DoodleDuck97
Gracidea Shaymin

Mask and Mirror
Arthreeteseven
WishOn

Putuk
TechPowah
Wintropy

SMAASH! Puppy
Diddy Kong
Sonsa

PSIBoy
LunarDistortion
Speed

Sonsa
PF9
JimmyTheCatterpillar

smashkirby
Nauzgo
ryuu seika

MEWTWOMASTER2000
chandelure
Marthmario

cjcduck
SMX
Dagon

Shrokatii
Extremefann
SuperBrawler

cj.
Darth Nightmaricus
MisterVideoGaming

Kirbyfan391
BoN~
DutchPichu

Nonno Umby
Zero Soul
GalacticPetey

Zoljinx
Purple_Anteater
Nintendicted

Fogs
Twin Shot
ミスティック Speed

Kirshible
Zekkaran
chippy2000

dangeraaron10
GDChu
Yoshister

ProjectilePuff
Bradli Wartooth
Troykv
MrGameguycolor

 

[Get Low]

No.

Just no.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

WAT. Not even with a new moveset?

 

[Get Low]

Not sure how much originality they could put into a new moveset for him,
but I'm guessing that there's probably less than a 5% chance that he'll be in this game.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yes, I know that. But adding Iron Tail, a move that utilizes Pichu's discharging, etc. could give Pichu something...

 

[Zajice]

I would honestly much rather have a new character than a return of Pichu.

 

[N3ON]

I think Pichu could work well as a reckless high-risk high-reward character.

But I would also agree that I would rather have a new character over Pichu.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I thought the theory in smash was that the original Pikachu is gone from Smash and the Pikachu in Brawl is actually the Pichu from melee evolved.

 

[Get Low]

Watch them put Pichu in and make him broken.

 

[ndayday]

I was always under the impression that he was there because of GSC being the Generation at the time.

I mean, he's cool, but I just don't see him coming back.

 

[BSP]

It's not happening

And if it did, I'd rather someone else new as well.

 

[Mr. Johan]

It depends on how far Sakurai's and Game Freak's willing to go as far as Pokemon references, the way I see it. If they want to advertise HGSS, Notched Ear Pichu could score some points in that regard.

But seeing as how HGSS is already two years old, and will likely be half a decade old by the time Smash 4 is ready to go, Pichu's odds of coming in as a rep for HGSS, his biggest claim to fame, is ridiculously slim.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Even if he doesn't come back in Sm4sh, eventually the bottom of the barrel will be scraped. Whether or not Pichu is back by then all depends.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I say we have Raichu in Smash. He'd bring a lot more to the table than the return of Pichu

Let's just say Pikachu and Pichu evolved between games. Or even in the opening movie if that fits you more

 

[Banjodorf]

See, I'd love to see them rework Pichu and make him awesome, but that's just as long as he's not getting in the way of a totally new character. However, I don't think that's a good way to start off the Pichu thread, so some real discussion might do some good.

I feel like he could still use Thunder, but he needs...


Iron Tail B> - A high-damage lunge attack with a sweetspot.


Shockwave B - A wave of electrical energy fires outwards in both horizontal directions. Medium damage at close range, light at long. Does moderate damage to Pichu himself.


Ballon Burst B^ - Think Balloon Pikachu; the balloons drift upwards quickly, and pop when they reach their peak, causing Pichu to fall.


Thunder Bv - I'm going to latch on to the idea that he could utilize his back-damage. Thunder does no damage to Pichu if it collides with him. With the more damage he's taken from electrical attacks, if Thunder hits him, it causes an electrical discharge that sends bolts flying across the stage that deal medium damage.


I think something could be added to actually classify the self-damage as a mechanic, but I think this'd actually be kinda cool if you ask me.

 

[Oasis_S]

Before anyone suggests Pichu comes back as an alternate costume of sorts for Pikachu, I'll go ahead and let you know that's not possible.

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

Pichu in Melee was all the result of a botched joke, so his odds of returning in Smash 4, or of Plusle and Minun of the Hoenn region replacing him, is approximately 3,720 to 1.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Before anyone suggests Pichu comes back as an alternate costume of sorts for Pikachu, I'll go ahead and let you know that's not possible.

I believe it's technically possibly, but it'd probably be a botched mess if they do

 

[Oasis_S]

I believe it's technically possibly, but it'd probably be a botched mess if they do

Pretty much.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You could also go the route of having hit boxes at parts like above his head, etc. so it doesn't match the body

 

[Oasis_S]

The bigger problem is getting Pikachu's bones to match Pichu's model. There are a lot of problems with the whole thing. Very little to gain considering the difficulties in solving them. JUST WON'T HAPPEN.

 

[Steelia]

But seeing as how HGSS is already two years old, and will likely be half a decade old by the time Smash 4 is ready to go, Pichu's odds of coming in as a rep for HGSS, his biggest claim to fame, is ridiculously slim.

That never stopped Pkmn Trainer or Jiggs, but I'm sure there are arguments for those two.

I've always seen Pichu as the physically-weaker-than-Pikachu but electrically-stronger-than-Pikachu type. That's how he should've been, anyway. I think that'd make him a lot of fun. Very speedy, very light, but incredibly strong electrical attacks. As much as I'd love to see Pichu come back in some fashion, like Doc, the whole clone thing isn't big with people... After all, it's Pikachu's preevo.
But as far as Pokemon generation reps are concerned, I'd still say Pichu's the best choice for 2nd Gen. Notched-Ear Pichu would be great for that.

 

[Johnknight1]

If Pichu returns, it should be like how I've suggested it be done over the past few years IMO...

1. Give Pichu a new moveset (or at least a mostly new moveset sans Lucas)
2. Give Pichu a few short combos and some moves with a lot of knock back. And when I say a lot, I mean A LOT!!! LIKE A LOT A LOT!!!
3. Make Pichu just a bit slower than Captain Falcon (the 2nd fastest character in Brawl) but faster than Sheik and Fox (the tied 3rd faster characters in Brawl).
4. Make Pichu a tad lighter. Just a tad lighter. At least keep Pichu a tad lighter than Jigglypuff and Captain Olimar.
5. Use this to turn Pichu into the ultimate risk/reward gamble character who can be easily kill, but can easily kill.

That sounds like the perfect, random, crazy, game-changing character that is capable not just of breaking opponents' game, but breaking its' own game. Thus, if this were to happen, talent Pichu SSB4 players would pull of amazing comebacks, and have amazing comebacks pulled against them! That MADNESS sounds like ALL KINDS OF FUN!!!

 

[Kink-Link5]

What does anyone think of a Pichu Bros. option with Plusle and Minun costume (or vice versa)? The latter would make more sense canonically, and the rats are quite similar enough for it to not interfere with bones/models.

They would not have to be like Ice Climbers at all if they, for example, always held hands, or stacked on top of each other for some attacks, etc., such that they always acted as a single character hurtbox.

 

[dettadeus]

Wrote up a new moveset for Pichu a while back, maybe this will interest people. It actually takes advantage of Pichu's self-damaging gimming through the move Flail.

Spoiler

Jab: Simple headbutt. Same as in Melee. Spammable if you mash the attack button.
F-Tilt: Pichu kicks his legs forward. Same as in Melee.
D-Tilt: Pichu whips his tail along the ground. Same as in Melee.
U-Tilt: Pichu whips his tail in the air above him. Same as in Melee.
F-Smash: Pichu charges a powerful electrical jolt. Initial hits (around 3 frames after charging is over) stun the opponent and drag them into the sweetspot, final hit sends them flying. Slightly changed from Melee. Hurts Pichu.
U-Smash: Pichu leans back, and then flings his head forward similar to Jigglypuff's U-Smash. Same as in Melee. Has a couple of invincibility frames.
D-Smash: Pichu crouches down and spins around a few times. This move only deals horizontal knockback. Same as in Melee.

Nair: Pichu curls up and does a rapid flip. Same as in Melee.
Fair: Pichu's tail turns to iron and he does a forward flip. This move has a sweetspot hitbox that acts as a meteor smash.
Bair: Roflchucopter. Same as in Melee.
U-Air: Pichu does a small flip and hits above himself with his tail. Same as in Melee.
Dair: Pichu flips upside down and spins around, surrounding himself in electricity. Has high knockback. Hurts Pichu.

Grab: A normal grab.
F-Throw: Pichu hurls the opponent forward, then uses Volt Switch and knocks them back and forth twice before sending them flying. Hurts Pichu.
D-Throw: Pichu puts the opponent on the ground and flips his tail into them, doing very low vertical knockback. Same as in Melee.
B-Throw: Pichu rolls back with the opponent and flings them backwards. Same as in Melee.
U-Throw: Pichu lifts the opponent up and headbutts them from below. Same as in Melee.

Specials Moveset:
N-special: Thundershock. You can't really change this; it's nostalgic. And there has to be ONE move you'll never ever use. I mean, it's Pichu after all. Hurts Pichu.
S-Special: Flail. I love Skull Bash with all my heart, but I can bear to part with it. This would be a brilliant move for Pichu to have, considering it's self-damaging nature and it's D-special. The more damage Pichu has, the higher this attack's damage and knockback becomes, like Lucario's Aura on steroids.
D-Special: Endure. This move works almost exactly like Olimar's Whistle in Brawl; it gives Pichu super-armor for around 10 frames. Could also give Pichu a few frames of invincibility so you can get Flail out safely right after being hit in Endure (sort of like Whistle > Nair > U-Smash but better). However, it also functions like a counter, in that if Pichu is not attacked during a certain frame window, there's a long cooldown phase. Pichu also takes full damage from whatever attack hits while Endure's Super Armor is in effect.
U-Special: Volt Switch. It's Quick Attack with a different name, and now explains why Pichu takes damage from it. Hurts Pichu.

FINAL SMASH: Static Charge
Pichu becomes electrically charged. It's movement speed increases, and it takes consistent damage. However, the individual electric attacks do no extra damage to it. It also gains a slightly different moveset for the duration of it's FS:
N-Special: Shock Wave. Like Thundershock but much faster, higher priority, and moves in a straight line as opposed to bouncing. Think of Falco's lasers.
S-Special: I'm honestly not sure if this would work better as Wild Charge or Thunderpunch. Wild Charge would essentially be a combination of Skull Bash and Egg Roll; it can be charged for more speed and power and the direction can be changed, but it cannot leave the ground during the attack. Thunderpunch would be... well, Thunderpunch.
D-Special: Magnet Rise. Pichu becomes more floaty and/or gains a third jump for five seconds.
U-Special: No change.
It would work similar to Giga Bowser; Pichu can take damage but not knockback. By the time it ends, Pichu would have naturally taken around 30-40% damage.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Offensive comeback mechanics? No thanks. If Pichu just had Sin arcanaesq levels of good moves, his self-damage would at the very least be justified.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Seeing as how Notched Ear Pichu gets Pain Split exclusively out of all other Pichu, if that Pichu variant was put in Smash, having that move be implemented in tandem would be plausible. It would go hand in hand with Pichu's self-damaging attacks: Rack up damage on yourself by using Thunder Jolt, Thunder, or any Electric-based move, then go in for the Pain Split to heal yourself if your percentage is higher than the opponent's, while the opponent takes damage as a result.

I.E. Pichu is at 100%, while Ness is at 34%. Pichu connects with Pain Split, and so the damages are added together, halved, and then evenly distributed. Pichu now has 67%, Ness now has 67%. Would be a crazy momentum setter if Pichu has the stock lead.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Only if missing with it made Pichu go into dizzy state.

 

[Mr. Johan]

With how light Pichu is, that sounds like it would skew the risk/reward ratio a ton.

Assuming Pichu's range in attacks remains the same as it did in Melee, you can imagine Pain Split being incredibly low range as well. Like, less than Brawl Jigglypuff's Rest, even. The lack of range, duration of the move, and complete lack of KO power (Pain Split can never KO in Pokemon, so it can't kill in Smash) could compensate for the healing factor.

 

[_Keno_]

They need at least one tiny cute pokemon if they want girls to play this game.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I don't know if someone mentioned this, but what about making it so Pichu doesn't hurt itself when using its electric-based attacks. I mean, the thing is lightweight and easy enough to kill as is.

 

[dettadeus]

I think it would be better to give Pichu a way to benefit from damaging himself (Flail or Pain Split, but landing a Pain Split right after killing your opponent, when you have like 100% on you, would be ridiculously stupid) than to remove something that's stated in his Pokedex entry in like, every game.
As stupid as damaging yourself is, given the right move to take advantage of it, Pichu would have the potential to be a really good glass canon.

 

[aba1]

If Pichu did a little more damage to make up for the high knock out and the fact he damages himself he could have been a great character. The real issue with pichu is that his upsides were just significantly lower compared to his downsides.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

If Pichu made it back, his final smash should be a more controllable Volt Tackle that resembles the anime more...

 

[tube147]

Come on pichu would be amazing for good or amazing players

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

I would mind if Pichu came back but, if he does, please make him good for something. The poor thing's almost completely useless in Melee.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

I don't understand why everyone hates Pichu so much, i love him and i totally think he should return and get a better moveset rather than being a nerfed version of Pikachu. His reason of even being in Melee in the first place is because that game came out during Pokemon's second generation... so the chance of Pichu coming back isn't very likely right now anyway. ;~;

 

[Vinylic.]

Holy snapples, it's niko punk from YouTube.

First I see mastrlinx here and now you. Damn, lol.

/dip

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

People STILL know who i am? D:

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

People STILL know who i am? D:

I don't.

And technically, Pichu a nerfed Pikachu, no matter what game. Pikachu itself is a nerfed Raichu.