The Cute Baby Pokémon, the Melee underdog: Pichu for DLC Discussion - Under New Ownership! VOTE NOW!

[jigglover]

I don't.

And technically, Pichu a nerfed Pikachu, no matter what game. Pikachu itself is a nerfed Raichu.

This logic is terrible. Raichu is a slower Pikachu with more power and he learns moves slower, though the moves he does learn don't really back up his extra power. Pikachu is speedier, but less powerful than Raichu, so if you want a heavy(er)-hitter,then you'd want Raichu, but if you want a speedy static electric type, Pikachu's your man.

It's like Scyther and Scizor have the same base stat total, but since Scizor is evolved from Scyther, he is surely the better Pokemon by your logic.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

This logic is terrible. Raichu is a slower Pikachu with more power and he learns moves slower, though the moves he does learn don't really back up his extra power. Pikachu is speedier, but less powerful than Raichu, so if you want a heavy(er)-hitter,then you'd want Raichu, but if you want a speedy static electric type, Pikachu's your man.

It's like Scyther and Scizor have the same base stat total, but since Scizor is evolved from Scyther, he is surely the better Pokemon by your logic.

Raichu has a base speed stat of 100 while Pikachu's base speed stat is 90. So Raichu is faster in the Pokemon games. Raichu also doesn't learn moves by leveling up.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Should I make a post on how to fix pichu?
Most sould be irrelevant if the game doesn't use melee physics, which it won't.

W/e I'll do it anyway.

Basic physics changes
-Quicker initial dash and overall dash speed. Reason is obvious.
-Less traction for longer/quicker WD/WL. Reason: helps positioning/movement and improves ledge options.
-heavier weight. Reason: he dies at 20%...
-bigger grab range. Reason: pichu's grabs are boss.
-no self damage. Reason is pree obvious.

Basic moveset changes
-more hitstun and less lag on rapid jab, also more range. Reason: boss combos and gimp setups. Similar to melee ness dtilt.
-More range/kb on dtilt/dsmash (less lag on dsmash as well). Reason: spacing more used to reset neutral position. Nair->dtilt is also the sex.
-more range on utilt and ftilt. Obvious reasons.
-Fsmash stales at less than 1%(like in v1.0). Reason: SDI is dumb.
-Dsmash has more Hitstun/kb. Reason: its not safe until like 50%+
-more range on usmash. Hitbox out on frame 3. Reason: safer OoS option.

Aerial attacks
-Bigger Nair hitbox. Out on frame 1. Reason: safer OoS, overall better. Move already *****.
-More range on uair, more hitstun+damage. Reason: juggle combos that actually do something.
-a fair with range and hitstun an a bit more KB would be amazingly nice. Especially if it true combo'd into anything. 64 pika fair maybe? :3
-Dair has a downwards trajectory. As in the inverse of its current one. Same kb/hitstun. Reason: godlike semispike. Fear the gimps. Pichu finally gets an aerial finisher.

specials
-invincibility frames and startup speed increase on FIRST segment of upB. Reason: better mobility and alternate approach. PAWDs become a legit technique, rather than just a gimmick. Safer ledge and OoS option.
-More hitstun on jolts, travel faster, less lag. Reason: better projectile that can be followed up more easily.
-the base of thunder (when it hits pichu) acts like brawl puff's rest (melee rest would be too broken). Reason: amazing kill move for hard reads, but can't really be combo'd into well. Puff slayer.
-new side b required. His old one was really only used for punishing missed rests, and with my new suggested downB, thats not necessary. Its not as needed for recovery either, since more weight/aerial mobility will allow him to live longer anyway. Maybe something that reflects or absorbs energy type projectiles (like ness's down B). Reason: doesn't need to worry about projectile camping characters like fox/falco.

misc
-faster grab pummel. Reason: grabs are the sex.
-hitstun increase on fthrow, puts lightweights on instant knockdown state (like fox's dthrow), but cg's heavies until 30-40%. Reason: fthrow suuuux.

Overall result: boss *** buffed pichu, but still has some weaknesses so he plays the same and isn't broken.

Sorry for any typos/grammatical errors, I typed this whole thing on my ipod :/

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Not important, but I remember that the Nintendo Power Player's Guide had a name for every attack that the characters had and used in Melee. Here is Pichu's.

Weak Attacks

1: Headbutt

Strong Attacks

Upward: Tail Smack
Forward: Pichu Kick
Downward: Tail Sweep

SMASH ATTACKS:

Upward: Jumping Headbutt
Forward: Thundershock
Downward: Spinning Mouse

Dash Attack: Running Headbutt

Aerial Attacks:

Center: Pichu Roll
Front: Electric Drill
Back: Glider
Up: Tail Chop
Down: Electric Screw

Special Attacks

Standard B: Thunder Jolt
Foward B: Skull Bash
Upward B: Agility
Downward B: Thunder

Grapples and Throw Downs

Pummel: Electric Shock
Front: Electrocution
Back: Submission
Up: Electric Skull
Down: Electric Slam

Well, that's another.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Pichu's upB is agility.
Quick attack is Pika's.

And I forgot about dash attack.
That move sucks.
I've purposefully used it maybe three times in tournament...
Its not easy to follow up and is easily punished via crouch cancel or shield (or just hitting it lol)
Its only purpose in melee was setting people up for gimps, but is totally neglegable due to dash cancel dtilt/ftilts.
What would be a LOT better is if the move was faster, had more priority and hitstun, less end lag, and popped people upwards (similar to ICs dash attack)
With this he could intercept overcommited approaches (like a fox who commits to SHFFL'd nair too early) and set up a grab (which is always amazing and leads to other things) or a uair chain or an aerial finisher. And it could be used to pop people on to platforms setting up an easy tech chase.
Brief invinsibility frames on the startup would be pretty awesome too, but it would still be easily punished from shield (similar to peach's... Or really any dash attack)

Oh and if Pichu keeps his skullbash (sideB) from melee, he should be able to cancel the charge with L/R and store it (Like DK's neutralB or Sheik's needles)
This gives him:
A) better recovery since you are never able to fully charge sideB ever.
B) amazing finisher. This move ***** if its fully charged. And you could easily combo into it.
C) quick turnaround technique. I don't know if it would be too helpful with pichu, but its never bad to have more options.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Pichu's upB is agility.
Quick attack is Pika's.

..They really should fixed that on that website.

Well, I fixed mine.

 

[mrbrawl]

moveset for pichu

All a-attacks are the same

All smash attacks are the same too

bichu shoots two thundershocks left and right put don't go that far

side b:the same as melee

up b:the same as melee

down b: pain split: pichu does a grab if he lands the grap it will divide the damage of him and the opponent and if its uneven the opponent gets the extra 1%, only works if the opponent is over 50%

 

[DerfMidWest]

Pichu's moveset wasn't the reason he was a bad character.
He failed in melee because he had no range, couldn't rack up damage all that well, had few reliable kill moves, and got killed at very low percents.

 

[Deleted member]

Pichu's moveset wasn't the reason he was a bad character.
He failed in melee because he had no range, couldn't rack up damage all that well, had few reliable kill moves, and got killed at very low percents.

So in other words......it was his moveset.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I honestly wouldn't mind Pichu if he alongside Roy, Dr.Mario and Young Link came in a DLC MELEE pack. (Since Mewtwo was the closest to being NON-cut, I think he'll make it in as a regular character).

It would be favorable if we got all characters from previous SSBs, but since we DON'T want them to waste unnecessary time and effort on similar characters (at least not me, lol) for the disc version, then leave them for extra content for post-release.

 

[mrbrawl]

Pichu's moveset wasn't the reason he was a bad character.
He failed in melee because he had no range, couldn't rack up damage all that well, had few reliable kill moves, and got killed at very low percents.

I would just make his physics better by having all of what you said and make sure he doesn't die so fast too

i think pain split would make him a better character and more high risk reward playing style

 

[dettadeus]

I still think Flail/Endure would be a better choice than Pain Split. Even if it's on Pichu, being able to simultaneously heal a good portion of damage and damage your opponent for the same amount would be pretty broken, especially on an opponent's fresh stock. Flail/Endure would work better with high risk/high reward as well, since getting to higher damage causes you more risk but you would get an even more ridiculous reward as your damage goes up.
Endure would also give him a way to survive longer while still making Flail a potent threat. Pain Split could really only have a couple uses in a match because it's useless when your opponent has more damage, which is generally the goal of smash (if you're not playing lucario).

 

[mrbrawl]

ya but i don't want pichu a clone you know so with i thought of two thundershocks but pichus good with any pain split or flail but what different moves can he have and what about a final smash

 

[Johnknight1]

Honestly, all Pichu needs is to be a ultimate "risk/reward" character. Give it tons of knock back on 1-3 "kill" moves and tons of combos (but keep it super easy to kill). Jigglypuff in Melee (and to a lesser extent [but still well done], Jigglypuff in Smash 64) were somewhat like this, although this idea of mine for Pichu would be MUCH more extreme.

What does anyone think of a Pichu Bros. option with Plusle and Minun costume (or vice versa)? The latter would make more sense canonically, and the rats are quite similar enough for it to not interfere with bones/models.

They would not have to be like Ice Climbers at all if they, for example, always held hands, or stacked on top of each other for some attacks, etc., such that they always acted as a single character hurtbox.

I like the idea of Plusle and Minun (not the Pichu Bros).[COLLAPSE="I got a simple basic theory on how it could work..."]-Both Plusle and Minun would have the same exact moves, just like the Ice Climbers (this is where I feel most "team characters" fail; they try to do too much)
-However, the effects of both characters' moves would be different. For example, Plusle could do lots of knock back with its' F-Smash, whereas Minuns' F-Smash would do a lot of stun.
-Also unlike the Ice Climbers, perhaps you could switch between which one you control, whether as a special attack or a taunt.
-This isn't a part of my theory, but Plusle and Minun could take some of the basic play style and "feel" of Pichu and enhance it (especially by teaming together).[/COLLAPSE]

 

[mrbrawl]

i wound rather have a high risk reward pichu with pain split or flail instead of two pokemon
at once

 

[DerfMidWest]

So in other words......it was his moveset.

no not the moveset... his moves are actually really good.
just the properties of the character set him back.

if they were to do the Pichu bros./Plusle+Minun they would have to be very careful so as to not end up with something even more homosexual than brawl ICs...

they could not have rapid jab. because that would be the easiest form of wobbling in the world. I don't understand brawl physics though, so I don't know if that works of not, but either way.

sideB I'd imagine would work like Pichu's when you are solo, but when synced it goes further and rises higher. I'd assume it has less endlag and may be able to sweetpot the ledge.

for upB, solo would be the initial dash, synced would give you the option for the second. invincibility on the first part would be relatively important, assuming it works like melee upB.

Dsmash would have to be quicker, have more range, and have less endlag as well as more KB. basically the IC's Dsmash.

fsmash hitbox would act like ICs utilt but with pichu's melee fsmash kb. it would also need more range.

fair would need to have more hitstun. the move would cause an (escapable via SDI) CG.

dair properties would have to be changed, as frthow->dair->regrab would be inescapable at low percent on heavies/midweights if done correctly. I would think my earlier suggestion for Pichu's dair would work well. except without the 2 hit thingy on the ground.

without dair, they'd need a legit move to combo into grab and a new CC punish, so Fair would need a lot more hitstun and less lag.

minun (secondary pichu) should be able to solo upB when commanded (since nana can't solo upB or sideB in melee) as a chase since Pichu's WD is trash and its unlikely that WD will even be in the game, so PAWD->grab could be used to chase B/Fthrow similar to the ICs backtracking in melee.

uair would need more range and power.

DownB should be something that protects the pokemanz... similar to Blizzard. So like some kind of discharge or something. an electricy thingy that has decent range.
this would allow stuff like.... minunpulting(?) and like... better desync projectile walling/defense (which is important for the ICs).

more range/speed on Dtilt.

stronger usmash.

more grab range.

oh and no self damage... that **** is lame.

and thats about it.
the character ends up becoming a faster IC type character with more mobility and a stonger air game, but weaker ground game. their grab game is also slightly less threatening, but still pretty boss (since pichu already has a good grab game)

Pichu(plural) would also have a ledge handoff, I'd think... Minun grabs out of Plusle's Dthrow, Plusle grabs out of minun's Fthrow...
pree ****.

 

[mrbrawl]

i like were your going but people won't play as pichu because they think he's a nerved clone

he needs better physics,stronger attacks, a stronger move set,weight and some special move that makes pichu better

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

i like were your going but people won't play as pichu because they think he's a nerved clone

he needs better physics,stronger attacks, a stronger move set,weight and some special move that makes pichu better

But Baby Pokemon aren't meant to be that strong to begin with.

...Eh, whatever.

no not the moveset... his moves are actually really good.
just the properties of the character set him back.

if they were to do the Pichu bros./Plusle+Minun they would have to be very careful so as to not end up with something even more homosexual than brawl ICs...

they could not have rapid jab. because that would be the easiest form of wobbling in the world. I don't understand brawl physics though, so I don't know if that works of not, but either way.

sideB I'd imagine would work like Pichu's when you are solo, but when synced it goes further and rises higher. I'd assume it has less endlag and may be able to sweetpot the ledge.

for upB, solo would be the initial dash, synced would give you the option for the second. invincibility on the first part would be relatively important, assuming it works like melee upB.

Dsmash would have to be quicker, have more range, and have less endlag as well as more KB. basically the IC's Dsmash.

fsmash hitbox would act like ICs utilt but with pichu's melee fsmash kb. it would also need more range.

fair would need to have more hitstun. the move would cause an (escapable via SDI) CG.

dair properties would have to be changed, as frthow->dair->regrab would be inescapable at low percent on heavies/midweights if done correctly. I would think my earlier suggestion for Pichu's dair would work well. except without the 2 hit thingy on the ground.

without dair, they'd need a legit move to combo into grab and a new CC punish, so Fair would need a lot more hitstun and less lag.

minun (secondary pichu) should be able to solo upB when commanded (since nana can't solo upB or sideB in melee) as a chase since Pichu's WD is trash and its unlikely that WD will even be in the game, so PAWD->grab could be used to chase B/Fthrow similar to the ICs backtracking in melee.

uair would need more range and power.

DownB should be something that protects the pokemanz... similar to Blizzard. So like some kind of discharge or something. an electricy thingy that has decent range.
this would allow stuff like.... minunpulting(?) and like... better desync projectile walling/defense (which is important for the ICs).

more range/speed on Dtilt.

stronger usmash.

more grab range.

oh and no self damage... that **** is lame.

and thats about it.
the character ends up becoming a faster IC type character with more mobility and a stonger air game, but weaker ground game. their grab game is also slightly less threatening, but still pretty boss (since pichu already has a good grab game)

Pichu(plural) would also have a ledge handoff, I'd think... Minun grabs out of Plusle's Dthrow, Plusle grabs out of minun's Fthrow...
pree ****.

The moves have names, you know. Well... unofficial ones, anyway.

 

[mrbrawl]

i feel like the moves need just more strength

PLUS HE NEEDS A GOOD FINAL SMASH

 

[DerfMidWest]

The moves have names, you know. Well... unofficial ones, anyway.

son... I'm ****ing vanir (aka AesirGOD).
I'll call Pichu's moves whatever I want.
I pree much reinvented this character.

 

[mrbrawl]

doe anyone have a final smash for him

 

[DerfMidWest]

he should briefly turn whatever surface he's standing on into an electric field which paralyzes whatever is standing on it (similar to shield break or puff's sing).

 

[army man]

id take any final smash as long as he doesnt hurt himself lol

 

[mrbrawl]

he should briefly turn whatever surface he's standing on into an electric field which paralyzes whatever is standing on it (similar to shield break or puff's sing).

cool my idea is this pichu first evolves to pikachu after shaking his head no he evolves to raichu

[as raichu he's heavier then pikachu]

all of raichus attacks are super strong and tripled in power and knock back

ex:if he had pain split he could do it on more then one person

what do you think

 

[DerfMidWest]

I think:
**** painsplit, **** is silly.
But raichu is boss, but it'd only work if he still had his upB mechanics to make him agile (therefore; more threatening)

But honestly it'd be a lot cooler if raichu were just a playable character.

 

[mrbrawl]

ya i think he could work and with up b idea

 

[DerfMidWest]

Oh for anybody who doesn't have experience with melee pichu: the upB mechanic I'm refering to is called "perfect agilty"
Its basically when you input jump, then cancel the jump animation before you actually leave the ground with upB (so that would be inputing on frame 4, since pichu has a 3 frame jumpsquat) then go directly forward and you land immediately upon the move ending, resulting in only 1 frame of lag rather than the 12 frames of landing lag agility normally has.
The technique works at angles too. Its really just whenever the move ends right as you hit the ground.
It allows Pichu to be one of the most mobile characters in melee.

So yea, just clarifying and whatnot.

 

[mrbrawl]

ya that would make a great move if they gave the melee psychics in ssb4

 

[DerfMidWest]

yea its pretty cool. and since there is most likely going to be no form of wave dashing/landing, there won't be ledgedashes or wavedashing OoS, making it Pichu's best off the ledge option and a pretty good OoS option that resets the spacing. (I also use it a lot OoS to get inside marth's range, but that's gimmicky and less safe... however, with invincibility frames on the first part of agility, it becomes much safer)

Agility also gives pichu a legitimate (although difficult) ledgestall, which is pretty handy at times, although, in melee it hurts you, rendering it useless

 

[mrbrawl]

i like what your saying with your ideas flail and my final smash pichu would be great

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

doe anyone have a final smash for him

If anything, it'll probably be Volt Tackle, since a Pikachu has to first start out as a Pichu to have that attack.

 

[mrbrawl]

i think the raichu idea would be cool but they probably woundn't do it and i hope pikachu gets his surf board instead

 

[mrbrawl]

hey wouldn't it be cool if pichu had a damaging taunt like luigis and it could damage on people on a ledge

 

[DerfMidWest]

Sure... It'd also be useless... Like luigi's...
Lol.
But pichu is a kind of trolly character, like luigi, so it would be fitting.

 

[mrbrawl]

ya but it will be funny

 

[DerfMidWest]

fair enough.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

I was bored, so i made this. idunno.

 

[DerfMidWest]

who cares about roy and mewtwo, pichu is the sex.
but the picture made me lol.

 

[mrbrawl]

greatest thing ever

 

[Ghirahilda]

I was bored, so i made this. idunno.

uh... what about doctor?