Social The Coney Island Disco Palace, A.K.A Bowser's Social thread!

[S_B]

Some things I'm observing about tournament play...

-Nair, though good for combo starters and platform pressure, isn't the best option for landing on a shielding opponent because they can punish it out of shield

-Bowser's recovery is still just as exploitable as it ever was

-People need to run off F/Bair more than they do. It's a great option and we need to remember that making an enemy airdodge is the same as KOing them in most cases

-Dsmash is being slept on. I too always want to go to Fsmash for killing blows, but Dsmash comes out faster and will more than likely have enough power to end stocks in these situations

-Parrying can still make or break Bowser in this game. So many options that are safe on Bowser's shield are going to become unsafe if Bowser manages to parry them, and Bowser needs those punishes

-Many of his old weaknesses are still intact, but it may very well be parrying that shifts matchups into Bowser's favor as it could allow Bowser to punish things he normally couldn't

 

[Yonder]

2nd as Bowser/Pichu?

Granted it was out of 16...

Beware....lot of salt from a certain player.

https://m.twitch.tv/phillyJ_97

Edit: the stream didn't record properly so it's gone . But still, crazy wins for me!

 

[T-Donor66]

Man why is this thread so dead? I’m super interested in picking up bowser but no one is here lol.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

Man why is this thread so dead? I’m super interested in picking up bowser but no one is here lol.

I Have absolutely no idea.....there are quite a few social threads like this but this is one of the more puzzling given its bowser

you wouldn't think his social thread would be so dead and quiet....yet here we are and it's just that....vacant and empty feeling

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

T-Donor66 ~The Koopa King~
It's been slow since the before times. Bowser has never been that popular on Smashboards. It also doesn't help that we don't have a cool Odyssey wedding outfit. If we had that, I bet activity would be ridiculous haha.

 

[T-Donor66]

T-Donor66 ~The Koopa King~
It's been slow since the before times. Bowser has never been that popular on Smashboards. It also doesn't help that we don't have a cool Odyssey wedding outfit. If we had that, I bet activity would be ridiculous haha.

Yeah, for the arch nemesis of the most iconic video game character of all time, you would expect a little more popularity haha.

Anyways, if anyone is seeing this, give me your best Bowser tips! Best approach options, safest moves, general playstyle tips, anything! I need some useful stuff since I picked up Bowser yesterday.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

Why is bowser so unpopular on smash boards anyways?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Yeah, for the arch nemesis of the most iconic video game character of all time, you would expect a little more popularity haha.

You should see the reception that most iconic video game character gets in this game. Less than Bowser and he DID get two great outfits to wear.

Anyways, if anyone is seeing this, give me your best Bowser tips! Best approach options, safest moves, general playstyle tips, anything! I need some useful stuff since I picked up Bowser yesterday.

I would go to pretty much any other thread for that sort of advice. Wait is that what people talk about in other sub forums' social threads? Anyway yeah if you're new to Bowser I can point out some stuff. Get used to cancelling run into tilts and Smashes, and combining it with fox trotting. You can beat their poking moves directly with Bowser's great range, limb intangibility, and attack armor. If you absolutely have to flop around in the air in neutral, do it with shorthop fast fall F-air. N-air has insane damage output and kill confirms but I wouldn't start using it until you've taken a few moments in training mode to observe how it hits opponents and when. The first arm is very weak knockback, the second arm knocks them into shorthop height, while the legs tend to knock them into full hop height. Besides N-air, pretty much everything Bowser does sets them up offstage, so get a feel for getting out there and hitting them with F-air. If you're too scared to go out, fire Breath over the edge can clock free damage in most matchups.

And finally there's your frame 6 air grab. If you F-air a bunch, that will condition them to block when you're in the air, and you can take advantage of that by grabbing them instead from the air. Full hop Side B will also immediately grab somebody on a platform above you which nobody expects in any other matchup. You can take the victim onto the top platform on Battlefield for an early kill, or the edge near a blast zone so that they can't take advantage of DI away to survive. There's also Bowsercide, but you'll want to think first about whether your current stock is worth giving up or if your opponent can make it back to the ledge assuming they're aware of their opportunity to do so.

But really just try out anything. Bowser doesn't have bad moves, you'll find everything has a purpose.

 

[Yonder]

What do you all think of my Bowser moveset tier list? Feel free to critique or inquire. I'm just going by my experience with my locals and what moves have been the most useful for me...

Top:

Fair
Nair
Side B
Up b

High:

Flames
U smash
F tilt
Bair
U tilt
U throw
B throw/f throw
D throw
F smash
D tilt


Mid:

D smash
Dash attack
Dair
Down B



He has no unusable moves imo.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

What do you all think of my Bowser moveset tier list? Feel free to critique or inquire. I'm just going by my experience with my locals and what moves have been the most useful for me...

Top:

Fair
Nair
Side B
Up b

High:

Flames
U smash
F tilt
Bair
U tilt
U throw
B throw/f throw
D throw
F smash
D tilt


Mid:

D smash
Dash attack
Dair
Down B



He has no unusable moves imo.

I would perhaps swap the places of Usmash and Up B. The invincibility and damage based armor window make it unparalleled for beating aerials while the landing hit give you some form of safety against air dodges. Where as Up B on the ground is mostly just your anti-crossup OoS tool. Few characters have a move that good for that purpose, but it doesn't even have the pleasure of being Bowser's fastest attack anymore now that side B is also frame 6. And while it has a laundry list of improvements in the air compared to smash 4 I kind of wish it could reach higher now that Bowser is a fast faller which forces us to recover lower than usual.

I might also swap Dtilt and Dsmash. Dtilt tripping is random chance, and at best Bowser can sort of tech chase when it happens because the endlag for this attack is just so high. I just don't see much point in using this attack when its so unsafe on block or whiff. Dsmash I warmed up to. When charging Dsmash, the damage based armor kicks in the frame you release which lets it serve as a psuedo counter. Try charging it at the ledge, you may bait a ledge attack or a double jump attack while the second swing catches ledge rolls. That being said, Dsmash is even laggier than Fsmash on whiff and is best saved for scenarios where there's an opening for an F-tilt but you think their damage is high enough you may kill outright.

I might also debate the merits of D-air and Down B but every other move placement is accurate in my opinion. Dash attack definitely struggles in a way it didn't in the previous game, now that Bowser has access to his tilts from a run. The only niche use I can think of for Bowser's Dash attack is kicking through Charizard or another Bowser's neutral B and even that is iffy. If they're breathing on you from above, Air Fortress will bowl right through the flames while the ground version is easier for us to jump over for a direct punish.

 

[Yonder]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/365580034

2nd again at weeklies...at least i made someone rage quit!

(Check 3 hr 20 mark.)

2nd person complaining to me now that Bowser is OP...alright.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

As long as Anti has Bowser as mid tier on his list, I think our smoke screen is still good, fam.

 

[Yonder]

As long as Anti has Bowser as mid tier on his list, I think our smoke screen is still good, fam.

Safe to say Bowser is pretty underrated by most, who I think is high tier. I just found it that everyone who complained about Bowser at my weeklies main characters like Inkling, Snake, Olimar...like what?

If Bowser had some sort of tough guy on whirling fortress while recovering or more priority while using it to recover (it loses to every single spike and the distance is mediocre), then I'd argue top tier.


As is though, he's perfectly balanced. My area just can't handle Bowser, to the point of rage quitting after game 1 as seen on my stream lol. I 2-0d and 3-0d everyone except the 1st place winner with solo Bowser too.

I'm so glad I found a character that resonantes with me so well, never gotten results this good in my whole smash career!

...

And i don't even own this game believe or not lol. Once I'm working full time again, I'm gonna get the game and have access to a lab. It'll finally allow me to become the best Bowser ever lol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQI8RiL5XjA


Quickest ultimate match ever?

 

[B!squick]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/272422279890337803/538482653754687489/image0.png

 

[Jotun873]

New bowser player here and i have a few questions;

1. Who is a good secondary for bowser if i dont like super lightweight. Could simon work?

2. How do i play the nuetral as bowser.

3. How do i deal with heavy agression?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Jotun873 This advice will be very lacking because there is almost zero information specified.

1. Simon, Wolf, Link, Inkling, Cloud, Palutena, Luigi, Lucario all good.

2. Use your speed on the ground to avoid being in zones of aggression. Punch them.

3. Pivot up angled FTilt.

 

[Jotun873]

Jotun873 This advice will be very lacking because there is almost zero information specified.

1. Simon, Wolf, Link, Inkling, Cloud, Palutena, Luigi, Lucario all good.

2. Use your speed on the ground to avoid being in zones of aggression. Punch them.

3. Pivot up angled FTilt.

I was just looking for some general tips, this helps alot, thanks!

 

[Lore]

I've definitely been considering maining Bowser for Ultimate. I was a bit hesitant at first, but it feels like he is massively underrated compared to other characters.

It helps that he is a ton of fun.

 

[S-bow64]

Did anyone notice that when you hit someone with Up-B in the air while not mashing we fall faster than usual ?

I managed to get someone off stage and go a little above the ledge, I felt like I had less lag on landing. It was during a match so maybe I imagined things on that part, shoulda taken a replay.

 

[Jotun873]

Did anyone notice that when you hit someone with Up-B in the air while not mashing we fall faster than usual ?

I get that exact same feeling when playing bowser except i have a habit of mashing for recovery and the few times i didnt i died when i felt like i really should have made it.

Could be just placebo but i would definately test in training

 

[S_B]

Surprised no one is talking about this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9wANdXlRZ4

It figures that they finally release a SSB game where Bowser is the most viable he's ever been and can even do well against characters that once destroyed him, right when I no longer have any time to play SSB......

 

[S-bow64]

Well granted ZSS is not a 1:1 representation of what she was in smash 4 (far from that but still pretty good) and Bowser was severely buffed in this game, I gotta say his play was really clean. The best I've seen so far.

He was sitting in shield a lot tho, that's a good option most of the time for Bowser since he has good punishes out of it but against certain characters that might not work that much. That's a smash 4 mentality we should maybe get rid of or rather keep it in a corner of our brain just in case.

Parrying with Bowser is just too good with that U-smash and D-smash and I don't believe he tried to go for that. Thanks for the video!

By the way, the other day I managed to parry a point blank PK Freeze and still didn't get the punish with side-B. Some stuff are way too safe in this game.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well granted ZSS is not a 1:1 representation of what she was in smash 4 (far from that but still pretty good) and Bowser was severely buffed in this game, I gotta say his play was really clean. The best I've seen so far.

He was sitting in shield a lot tho, that's a good option most of the time for Bowser since he has good punishes out of it but against certain characters that might not work that much. That's a smash 4 mentality we should maybe get rid of or rather keep it in a corner of our brain just in case.

Parrying with Bowser is just too good with that U-smash and D-smash and I don't believe he tried to go for that. Thanks for the video!

By the way, the other day I managed to parry a point blank PK Freeze and still didn't get the punish with side-B. Some stuff are way too safe in this game.

Parrying projectiles doesn't give the attacker any more hit-lag unlike normal attacks.

 

[S-bow64]

Parrying projectiles doesn't give the attacker any more hit-lag unlike normal attacks.

Oh I know that but that was still "point blank" as in half a dash away and in range for Side-B. Projectiles should have lag in some manner, I think ?

Well I didn't get punished but he got away safely, crayzy!

 

[Jotun873]

Did anyone notice that when you hit someone with Up-B in the air while not mashing we fall faster than usual ?

I managed to get someone off stage and go a little above the ledge, I felt like I had less lag on landing. It was during a match so maybe I imagined things on that part, shoulda taken a replay.

Yep, i both tested and was told mashing b gets us higher in the air, you can tell due to little clouds behind you if mashing.

 

[S_B]

Well granted ZSS is not a 1:1 representation of what she was in smash 4 (far from that but still pretty good) and Bowser was severely buffed in this game

Sure, but ZSS and Sheik actually being manageable matchups is a completely new concept for longtime Bowser mains.

Sheik has been one of Bowser's biggest foils since Melee and ZSS made his life hell in Brawl and 4 alike.

Just nice to see that even being close to changing for Bowser...

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Well it took a few years, but Bowser has finally taken over Nintendo of America. Who knew the world of business rules?

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Curious to know what everyone's GSP in Elite is here with Bowser. I'm sitting at 3 987 570. What about you guys?

 

[ZIO]

I don't think there's much being discussed with regard to match ups so I figure it might be nice to ask here.

What's recommended against Wario? I got a friend who pretty much dances around me with Nair and it feels like all of my moves don't come out fast enough to beat out any of the arials, but also alot of Wario's moves are strong enough that Tought Guy doesn't matter, so I end up taking a beating often. Seems as though Up B is the only thing to get me out of it but that's so predictable at this point, lol.

What do?

 

[ASaltySloth]

What do you all think of my Bowser moveset tier list? Feel free to critique or inquire. I'm just going by my experience with my locals and what moves have been the most useful for me...

Top:

Fair
Nair
Side B
Up b

High:

Flames
U smash
F tilt
Bair
U tilt
U throw
B throw/f throw
D throw
F smash
D tilt


Mid:

D smash
Dash attack
Dair
Down B



He has no unusable moves imo.

Top:

Fair
Nair
Side B
Up b
U tilt
D smash

High:

Flames
F tilt
Bair
U throw
B throw/f throw
D throw
F smash
Dair
Dash attack


Mid:

U smash
Down B
D tilt

Definitely sleeping on down smash. I honestly have a hard time punishing moves with a kill (bowsers best punish for quick moves are jabs) and in that case throwing out a down smash catches people off guard and kills lighter characters around 100, super useful. Up tilt has so much combo potential especially at lower percents and can even kill around 120 and I use it a ton. Rest of the tops are good. I feel like Dair is better than down b as its much quicker and can kill at higher percents and doesn't have nearly as much lag. I don't feel like up smash is very good as its pretty slow and has kind of a crappy hit box, up tilt is faster and doesn't even take that much longer to kill. Down b is almost unusable for me, using it on the ground only when I am 100% positive it will hit other wise I'm eating a lot of damage.

I don't think there's much being discussed with regard to match ups so I figure it might be nice to ask here.

What's recommended against Wario? I got a friend who pretty much dances around me with Nair and it feels like all of my moves don't come out fast enough to beat out any of the arials, but also alot of Wario's moves are strong enough that Tought Guy doesn't matter, so I end up taking a beating often. Seems as though Up B is the only thing to get me out of it but that's so predictable at this point, lol.

What do?

I feel like the #1 tip for bowser is: side B is your friend. Its really all just reading your opponents' habits and guessing where they will be after they throw out moves, run up, and side b. Wario's nair is really only going to land him in front or behind you so all you really need to do is predict where and run up to get that side b. Does a chunky 20% and kills early so hit a wario with it 3-4 times and you've got a stock. I hardly up b unless I know it's gonna hit because if you throw it out and it misses, you are ****ed. Once wario gets used to that side b they will start jumping away and you can destroy them with your aerials (fair and nair). Thats pretty much the neutral with bowser, make them scared to touch the ground or they will get side b'd and when they only come at you from the air you fair them like its your job. As for his tough guy, it's kind of hard to rely on that. Tough guy should be something nice that you can sneak out a side b or something while your opponent is doing a weak jab combo, but it is not something to be relied on at all because a lot of characters have moves that completely nullify it (like wario) and beyond that smarter players are just not going to use moves that let you use tough guy... situationally nice but not a main part of bowsers kit.

 

[ZIO]

I suppose.

Maybe I'm just not watching him enough to where I'm reacting quick enough to get something out in between his attacks.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

Just Once I'd Like to see Bowser Make it out of pools in a major tournament

Being a fan of heavies is rough on the competitive scene

 

[Jotun873]

I feel pathetic for asking this but any tips for killing as bowser? Sometimes my opponents live until ~130 because i cant land side b. I know his Fsmash is good but its sooo laggy. Any tips on killing earlier as bowser? Or is ~130 the right kill range?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

To kill early you usually rely on edge guards. A stray FSmash is just a reward for calling your opponent out. If your opponent is around 130, you should aim for FAir, BAir, Uair, Klaw, DSmash, UTilt, or FTilt to help kill. FThrow and BThrow are also strong enough to kill at the edge of a stage. Practice pummeling to unstale moves and help ensure the throw will kill.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

i hate palutena soooo much....lost A Set 0-2 to her on A Discord Server's online tournament and simply got Nair'ed to death

nothing i could do and by game two it was just all about me accepting defeat

 

[~The Koopa King~]

 

[MERPIS]

What do you people consider to be bowsers absolute worst matchups? Does he have any -2?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

We don't know. LeoN is proving that we still have a lot to learn about what people think are losing MUs.

 

[MERPIS]

So what makes bowser's fair so amazing for his kit? Imo it just seems like another kill move

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

It's another kill move, threatens a large amount of space, and can be used off stage much the same way Ike's FAir can be used. Bowser can jump off stage, FAir, double jump, FAir, and still up b back onto stage. Low % FAir can also force tech chases. It reaches high above Bowser, catching enemies that you would think are out of Bowser's range, has an auto cancel window, can be fast falled into the ground for okay landing lag, and conditions an opponent to shield (which leads to Klaw mixups).

It's not amazing as a move. It's not amazing for his kit. It's just a necessary tool for Bowser's kit. Managing its use alongside NAir and Klaw is what separates the newer Bowsers from the seasoned ones.

Of course, you don't have to test or use the move if you're not planning to take Bowser outside of friendlies. Bowser can probably win FFAs and friendly 1v1 with just raw yolo Bombs, FSmash, and Fire.