The Center Stage

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@salt

Why are you surprised?

 

[Sucumbio]

lol don't sweat the grammar too much, Dragoon. I just think if you're serious about getting better at debating something you should pay attention to is posting clearly and concisely. The Debate Hall in particular requires a certain level of grammar proficiency so that you aren't misunderstood. You don't have to have to be perfect, but at least use proper punctuation, spell check, etc. Trust me, it goes a long way towards your credibility as a poster.

 

[Dre89]

The thing is, you only disapprove of the extremes. For example, in thi above statement, you said to include dragoon fighter, who definetly needs work.

Because I know I don't have the authority to give my judgement anymore weight than that. Doing so is essentially the same as having a student teach another student who is in the same class; there's no qualification or rank of authority that puts student A over student B.

Hence why I referred to the criticisms of my arguments. They were said not to be good enough for the DH, yet they resembled some of the most substantial movements of western philosophy, yet they were supposedly not good enough for the DH. It's a perfect example of misplaced authority.

 

[Rizen]

Should I keep checking back until the mods have time to grill me? How does this work?

 

[GoldShadow]

Should I keep checking back until the mods have time to grill me? How does this work?

Any DHer can grill you! Basically, provide links to posts you've made that demonstrate your debating ability and ask to be reviewed/grilled.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

My prior debates are on the allisbrawl off topic forums which I might get in trouble for linking because it's a competing site.
I do have a few examples of political debates on this site.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10872075&postcount=814
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10874693&postcount=824
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10883039&postcount=845
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10890202&postcount=880
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10896482&postcount=897
Sucumbio sent me a message about a better place for debate posts, lol.

GoldShadow, he already posted this on the last page. Arizen, the requirements that Succumbio outlined were that you need to (a) create a thread in PG and (b) provide commentary to three different topics in PG. You've provided five comments that are all sourced from a single non-PG thread.

Quick query, I perused to Succumbio's post in this thread around June which stated that we need to (c) advocate a position in this thread prior to acceptance. I was curious whether or not that is still in effect as TheMike gained acceptance into DH without being required to argue a personal stance within this thread.

 

[TheMike]

I was curious whether or not that is still in effect as TheMike gained acceptance into DH without being required to argue a personal stance within this thread.

My name was discussed in the DH thread called The Jedi Council.

 

[Sucumbio]

Hence why I referred to the criticisms of my arguments. They were said not to be good enough for the DH, yet they resembled some of the most substantial movements of western philosophy, yet they were supposedly not good enough for the DH. It's a perfect example of misplaced authority.

That was the issue, Dre. I can make finger paintings that "resemble" the Mona Lisa. But will it get into the Louvre? No...

And no, I'm not saying the SWF Debate Hall is the Louvre of Debate Halls, in case you were going to counter with that.

'sides you're in now, you should relax a bit. And don't sell yourself short! You -are- a DH member, you have every right to constructively critique posters in the PG. It's for -their- benefit.

Also, with your analogy of the student teaching other students. True they may have no "authority" read: the right to decide. But they may in fact be well advanced beyond their compatriots, and this means they're qualified to assist in their learning, with appropriate guidance.

GoldShadow, he already posted this on the last page. Arizen, the requirements that Succumbio outlined were that you need to (a) create a thread in PG and (b) provide commentary to three different topics in PG. You've provided five comments that are all sourced from a single non-PG thread.

Quick query, I perused to Succumbio's post in this thread around June which stated that we need to (c) advocate a position in this thread prior to acceptance. I was curious whether or not that is still in effect as TheMike gained acceptance into DH without being required to argue a personal stance within this thread.

Ah yes, this post:

Let us get the gears cranking a bit in the Center Stage. The spotlight's on you!

Challenge: Pose a question, theory, hypothesis, argument, etc. and defend a position. You will debate me, and any other DH members who wish to join in. If you are successful (read: not necessarily that you "win" more that you demonstrate how you haven't lost) you will be considered strongly for DH membership, fit and ready to post.

Requirements: You must have at least one active topic in the PG that you created. You must have participated in at least 3 other topics in the PG, and your participation in all threads should contain well organized expressions of your ideas, and are coherently constructed.

See this thread for a good example of a debate topic. In this example the argument is presented from both sides, and then one side is clearly chosen and supported. This would be the recommended format, but its up to you how you wish to approach the subject. Just be sure it's obvious what your position is, and defend it!

It wasn't even really a rule, just something to spike activity, we'd been kinda slow at that point. What we've been doing is basically anyone in the PG that's caught attention in the DH proper gets their name in the suggestion thread and yays or nays are had and with enough yay votes, they're in. I can tell you right now, Acrostic if you were to be brought up though you'd have my support b/c I know your debate skill from UB's most DH members would want to see some more of you posting here in the PG first.

I think I'll make a sticky which better states what it is PG's should be doing with themselves, reading back 2 months was good on your part, but shouldn't be expected.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I find the whole process entertaining and wouldn't want to cheapen any of it for my self-benefit.

I've been gradually working on a Proving Ground topic that concerns pharmaceuticals yet I'm split on whether I want to discuss (a) the scientific basis behind psychotherapeutic drugs such as antidepressants (monoamine oxidase inhibitors i.e. Marplan, Nardil, and Parnate & tricyclic antidepressants i.e. Tofranil and Janimine & SSRIS / SSNRIs) that are built on the "scientific" assumption that depression is caused by a deprivation of norephinephrine and serotonin or (b) the liability and implications that pharmaceutical companies have taken on when they create pills with both enantiomers of the same compound in the the production of the pill.

I'm vastly uneducated on the topic of (b) yet I'm intensely interested in pursuing either topic and presenting it in an understandable fashion so that everyone can get involved. My finals are this week and then I have vacation soon afterwards with my family so I probably won't push out anything until the beginning of September. I apologize for being a tease.

Thank you though for your recommendation. I can't say that I'm completely satisfied with the topics I've chosen to participate in as my true passions lie outside of religion and philosophy. Yet it's a good experience of participating in threads outside my usual comfort zone and being presented with facts and argumentative styles that I haven't encountered before as a forum board enthusiast.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Because I know I don't have the authority to give my judgement anymore weight than that. Doing so is essentially the same as having a student teach another student who is in the same class; there's no qualification or rank of authority that puts student A over student B.

Actually, It would more be like a graduate teaching a younger student.

Hence why I referred to the criticisms of my arguments. They were said not to be good enough for the DH, yet they resembled some of the most substantial movements of western philosophy, yet they were supposedly not good enough for the DH. It's a perfect example of misplaced authority.

The thing is, dragoon fighter's reasons aren't your philosophies. Stop trying to bring them into this debate.

 

[SuperBowser]

(a) the scientific basis behind psychotherapeutic drugs such as antidepressants (monoamine oxidase inhibitors i.e. Marplan, Nardil, and Parnate & tricyclic antidepressants i.e. Tofranil and Janimine & SSRIS / SSNRIs) that are built on the "scientific" assumption that depression is caused by a deprivation of norephinephrine and serotonin

doooooo it :D. I'm horribly uneducated on the subject (as is most of this forum) but enjoy these topics. It would be a nice change of pace from philosophy debate #253.

I was under the impression it's well accepted there is no scientific explanation for the mechanism of these drugs. We just know they work and have some pretty correlations. I remember an article challenging the original evidence for use of TCAs, but never looked into it further.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but is it bad that I'm like the only PG person that is never mentioned in that Jedi Council thread?

Because literally everyone else that posts here has been mentioned. Even the numbers guy, who joined this after I did, AFAIK.

If I'm doing something wrong, let me know. I'd rather not continue to do something wrong without even knowing what it is I'm doing.

 

[Sieguest]

xD. No news is good news. You would have been told if you were doing something wrong by now. x.x

 

[vVv Rapture]

Heh, okay, that makes sense, just checking.

 

[Sucumbio]

a) the scientific basis behind psychotherapeutic drugs such as antidepressants (monoamine oxidase inhibitors i.e. Marplan, Nardil, and Parnate & tricyclic antidepressants i.e. Tofranil and Janimine & SSRIS / SSNRIs) that are built on the "scientific" assumption that depression is caused by a deprivation of norephinephrine and serotonin

This is a fascinating topic to me. I used to think it was all BS, literally. That "depression" was merely bawwwww mentality, emos, goths, whatever, lol. Then it hit ME. Seemingly out of no where, too... I just suddenly felt ... off. I couldn't concentrate, everything seemed to make me either mad or sad or some combination of the two... I couldn't sleep, couldn't eat right. I self medicated but even that stopped working. Then I tried Lexapro, and what-do-ya-know, it worked! Been on it ever since. I've even tried stopping it to see if it's really "necessary" and the symptoms returned. My councilor often said "Lexapro's gonna put me out of business" and I can see why, cause it really does work, strangely enough, and despite others not working (Wellbutrin, Prozac, etc.). But it's not for everyone. As I've learned these drugs are totally hit and miss. And there are dozens of disorders that require a very specific balance of medications to work. It can take years to find the right one, and in the process, life can be living hell.

(b) the liability and implications that pharmaceutical companies have taken on when they create pills with both enantiomers of the same compound in the the production of the pill.

Wow, been awhile since I read up on my chemistry, but yes, there is definitely something to be said of companies that produce a pill without picking one or the other. The effects are frankly hard to gauge. I also find it interesting that many drugs when patent time comes around, are re-released under a different name with literally one isomer difference, so that the first can be released as "generic" and the "new" one can be released under prescription.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I support vVv Rapture and ICG for debate hall. I have all ready stated my reasoning as to ICG but as for vVv Rapture his posts though not outstanding are consistently very good but unlike the numbers guy, dark horse, and me (yes numbers guy and Dark horse posts are really good to.) I have not read a huge blunder by vVv Rapture yet and as his postings are yes once again not outstanding but repeatedly very good, So I support vVv Rapture for debate hall for because even though he/she will make a mistake eventually because we are all human, but he/she seems to be really good at avoiding them and I mean really good. That is just my opinion however.

 

[Rizen]

That was the issue, Dre. I can make finger paintings that "resemble" the Mona Lisa. But will it get into the Louvre? No...

And no, I'm not saying the SWF Debate Hall is the Louvre of Debate Halls, in case you were going to counter with that.

'sides you're in now, you should relax a bit. And don't sell yourself short! You -are- a DH member, you have every right to constructively critique posters in the PG. It's for -their- benefit.

Also, with your analogy of the student teaching other students. True they may have no "authority" read: the right to decide. But they may in fact be well advanced beyond their compatriots, and this means they're qualified to assist in their learning, with appropriate guidance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrostic
GoldShadow, he already posted this on the last page. Arizen, the requirements that Succumbio outlined were that you need to (a) create a thread in PG and (b) provide commentary to three different topics in PG. You've provided five comments that are all sourced from a single non-PG thread.

Quick query, I perused to Succumbio's post in this thread around June which stated that we need to (c) advocate a position in this thread prior to acceptance. I was curious whether or not that is still in effect as TheMike gained acceptance into DH without being required to argue a personal stance within this thread.

Ah yes, this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sucumbio
Let us get the gears cranking a bit in the Center Stage. The spotlight's on you!

Challenge: Pose a question, theory, hypothesis, argument, etc. and defend a position. You will debate me, and any other DH members who wish to join in. If you are successful (read: not necessarily that you "win" more that you demonstrate how you haven't lost) you will be considered strongly for DH membership, fit and ready to post.

Requirements: You must have at least one active topic in the PG that you created. You must have participated in at least 3 other topics in the PG, and your participation in all threads should contain well organized expressions of your ideas, and are coherently constructed.

See this thread for a good example of a debate topic. In this example the argument is presented from both sides, and then one side is clearly chosen and supported. This would be the recommended format, but its up to you how you wish to approach the subject. Just be sure it's obvious what your position is, and defend it!
[end quotes]


It wasn't even really a rule, just something to spike activity, we'd been kinda slow at that point. What we've been doing is basically anyone in the PG that's caught attention in the DH proper gets their name in the suggestion thread and yays or nays are had and with enough yay votes, they're in. I can tell you right now, Acrostic if you were to be brought up though you'd have my support b/c I know your debate skill from UB's most DH members would want to see some more of you posting here in the PG first.

I think I'll make a sticky which better states what it is PG's should be doing with themselves, reading back 2 months was good on your part, but shouldn't be expected.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=280662
"Once you're in the Proving Grounds, just post regularly in the debates there.
The DHers will keep an eye on the PG, posting there occasionally. If they think you are good enough for DH admission, it will be discussed in this thread in the DH. Alternatively, if you think you're ready for admission to the DH, post in this thread in the PG and make a case for yourself. There is no minimum amount of time we require you to be in the PG before being allowed in the DH. If you're ready, you're ready. Simple as that."
^This is what I was going by.
Despite this being a dumb move for me; why make the debate hall for a gaming site somewhere that requires membership? A well moderated open debate forum supports informed discussions by it's nature and the interest of those participating. Take the AiB religious thread for example. I agree that debates should be well researched and presented because a lacking stance on an issue can easily be defeated. Therefor people are encouraged to be informed by wanting to support their case. To the point, it is discouraging to have to prove my self by limited means in order to post debates on a smashbros site. By this I mean no disrespect and obviously have no influence on the system; it's turning me away.

 

[Aesir]

^ Take it up with CK, this room was his when to moderate and he felt the best way to moderate it was to close it off and invite people.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

kirbyoshi respond to when is murder good thread....

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I challenge a debater to debate with me on center stage!

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I'll take you on, dragoon. Pick your poison.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I will let you pick the debate and my position on the debate.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Illegal downloading. You can pick the side.

Edit: if you insist, you are against illegal downloading. I'm playing DA.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

NOTE: Ok, because I know nothing on illegal downloading I did some research before I gave a response sorry for the delay (It is ok this is a test of my debate and adapting skills, right?).

Anyway my position illegally downloading is wrong if the company is still currently making money off of it. For an example downloading an n64 emulator is ok because Nintendo is not making money off of it any more even though the have the rights to it. However if you download music that is currently selling then you are stealing money away from the company and it is at that point that it is immoral.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

NOTE: Ok, because I know nothing on illegal downloading I did some research before I gave a response sorry for the delay (It is ok this is a test of my debate and adapting skills, right?).

Of course it does.

Anyway my position illegally downloading is wrong if the company is still currently making money off of it. For an example downloading an n64 emulator is ok because Nintendo is not making money off of it any more even though the have the rights to it. However if you download music that is currently selling then you are stealing money away from the company and it is at that point that it is immoral.

Actually, I think downloading an emulator is alright because it has nintendo's permission. Illegal downloading, no matter how old it is, is still illegal downloading.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Actually, I think downloading an emulator is alright because it has nintendo's permission. Illegal downloading, no matter how old it is, is still illegal downloading.

Maybe that was a bad example let me use an other one. Let us take the original SSB (Rom) Nintendo is not making money of the original SSB anymore. If they were that would be stealing, but they are not. If I downloaded OoT (Rom) then I would be stealing because I am now playing a game that they are still making money off of (With the upcoming 3ds re-release.) The only way to buy SSB without illegally downloading is by buying it off e-bay or similar websites. Then it is not Nintendo that is making the money now is it?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Maybe that was a bad example let me use an other one. Let us take the original SSB (Rom) Nintendo is not making money of the original SSB anymore. If they were that would be stealing, but they are not. If I downloaded OoT (Rom) then I would be stealing because I am now playing a game that they are still making money off of (With the upcoming 3ds re-release.) The only way to buy SSB without illegally downloading is by buying it off e-bay or similar websites. Then it is not Nintendo that is making the money now is it?

However, the product is still a license copyright. If you illegally download that, you will be sued.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

However, the product is still a license copyright. If you illegally download that, you will be sued.

It is rare that someone gets sued from simply downloading it. Now if they sell it then that is were they get sued or if they distributed it on a massive scale it. I am against selling it because that would be stealing money that they would of made if the chose to sell it, however I see no problem distributing it freely as long as they do not claim it as there own and the company is no longer making the product in question. In that way no one is really losing money and it is more or less free commercial promotion to the companies in question.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

It is rare that someone gets sued from simply downloading it. Now if they sell it then that is were they get sued or if they distributed it on a massive scale it. I am against selling it because that would be stealing money that they would of made if the chose to sell it, however I see no problem distributing it freely as long as they do not claim it as there own and the company is no longer making the product in question. In that way no one is really losing money and it is more or less free commercial promotion to the companies in question.

But they're downloading it illegally. They would get sued for that.

 

[Dre89]

Any PGers interested in doing a 1v1 free will vs. determinism debate with me? I'm happy to take either side, so take your pick.

It will also be a good chance to showcase your skills to DHers, so it's a good way to puch for promotion to the Hall.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

i wud but id need to research the topic a lot more.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

i wud but id need to research the topic a lot more.

Dn't be another ICG. Use proper grammar.

 

[Rizen]

Any PGers interested in doing a 1v1 free will vs. determinism debate with me? I'm happy to take either side, so take your pick.

It will also be a good chance to showcase your skills to DHers, so it's a good way to puch for promotion to the Hall.

'The doctrine that all facts and events exemplify natural laws' vs free will? I don't see how the subjects conflict. ?

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

But they're downloading it illegally. They would get sued for that.

Really? I am certain that a huge majority get away with it.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Dre ill take the side of free will......

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Really? I am certain that a huge majority get away with it.

That's because they're careful. If nintendo finds out, the person will get sued.

 

[Sieguest]

'The doctrine that all facts and events exemplify natural laws' vs free will? I don't see how the subjects conflict. ?

They conflict in the question of whether you really have a choice or not.

If everything is predetermined, then you really have no choice, you're just under the illusion of having one while some entity beyond you is pulling all the strings, whether it be the forces of nature, some deity, or the fact that your dog got ran over by Santa Clause yesterday. The bottom line is that you are not making your own choices, something is causing you to make the choice you are making.

Whereas free will says that you can make your choices independent of any and all outside influences. That even if your dog got ran over by Santa Clause or your house got foreclosed on, that the decisions you make afterward are decisions that were not influenced by any of these happenings.

You may refer to this for a better understanding.

 

[Dre89]

Dre ill take the side of free will......

Cool.

If you're still interested, you can go ahead and make the thread.

Just make sure that the title says 1v1 with our names, and that it's a free will vs. determinism debate.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

That's because they're careful. If nintendo finds out, the person will get sued.

I can not find evidence to support the common counter argument . You win this round . I will be back to try the center stage debate in the future.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

C'mon, man. Don't give up so easily!