The Bowser Chatroom and General Discussion

[Hobobloke]

agreed bair is the shiz. Anyway this is the chatroom and general discussion so i figure thi is the best place to post this, why the hell does a bowsercide on a time match count as the other persons ko it really pisses me off!!!

 

[Teh Future]

The only vids I've seen of gimpy's bower were a long time ago where I didnt even know about infinite jump. I figured gimpy dropped him since he started playing meta, then quit like a *****, and then picked up shiek, trolling the game the entire time.

I just meant in general Bowser can be used much more effectively using the infinite jump than if you aren't using it. It allowing him to move much more quickly and approaching with it so that the klaw can hit makes it an awesome approach.

To the above poster:

Why are you even playing timed matches?

Brawl counts nearly everything as a KO to someone, it's nearly impossible to get something to count as a SD.

 

[Flayl]

He did use the infinite jump, there's even a video in the "best video thread" showing him against an Ike where he basically klaw jumps the whole match

 

[Knight Talon]

If nobody hasn't already, I'll make a bowser website that discusses EVERYTHING Bowser related. People who have posted stuff about Bowser on smashboards will have priority in posting there topic. Example, the person who posted Bowser's match thread will have priority in creating it on the site. It will also have a chat, the same chat we use now on here. I think if the Bowser community would gather and discuss topic's related to Bowser much more closely, that we could definitely make a huge impact on Bowser's metagame.

The website will be made at latest by tomorrow, however I will not advertise it on smashboards because that is against the rules.

Woah this sounds pretty nifty! Looking forward to seeing it. =)

 

[Hobobloke]

Why are you even playing timed matches?

Brawl counts nearly everything as a KO to someone, it's nearly impossible to get something to count as a SD.

i have a deep hatred for timed matches, trust me. Its just when i would play basic brawl (which i have just given up on now) they are set to 2 minute time matches. I know its near impossible to have it counted as a SD but if it has to be someones KO why not bowser i mean it is HIS move and the other person dies first anyway.

Knight Talon its already done ill pm it to you if you want?

 

[Knight Talon]

i have a deep hatred for timed matches, trust me. Its just when i would play basic brawl (which i have just given up on now) they are set to 2 minute time matches. I know its near impossible to have it counted as a SD but if it has to be someones KO why not bowser i mean it is HIS move and the other person dies first anyway.

Knight Talon its already done ill pm it to you if you want?

That's would be mucho appreciated! =D

 

[inn0cuous]

Anyone have a way to defeat people who just hang on the edge a lot during the match? Cause thats what I tend to see often now in brawl cause the ledge grants a pretty long invincibility and the auto-sweetspot makes it too easy.

Usually some form of jump off ledge and take pot shots with lasers or jump off do a little harass and run back to the ledge.

Bowsers fire doesn't really work cause they just wait it out. Trying to go off the ledge seems like my only choice but seems rather risky. Do I just wait for them to actually fight me or what can I do.

 

[Crzy]

Anyone have a way to defeat people who just hang on the edge a lot during the match? Cause thats what I tend to see often now in brawl cause the ledge grants a pretty long invincibility and the auto-sweetspot makes it too easy.

Usually some form of jump off ledge and take pot shots with lasers or jump off do a little harass and run back to the ledge.

Bowsers fire doesn't really work cause they just wait it out. Trying to go off the ledge seems like my only choice but seems rather risky. Do I just wait for them to actually fight me or what can I do.

Fortresshog them? You might be able to infinite jump to dodge their projectiles and get close enough to fortress them. Though it might be risky if they grab the ledge first. XD

I normally use infinite jumps to firebreath and aim it downwards just as I'm at the edge and they're coming out of their invincibility frames. Then again I don't fight too many ledge campers, so maybe someone has a better solution.

 

[Flayl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K8yjNM2UaA

Basically 3 options:
- Bait opponent into attacking you
- Firebreath
- Edge stall on the other side of the stage =/

 

[Scipion]

Hello,
How usefull is jab cancelling? Jab cancel to jab, jab cancel to jab cancel.. jab cancel to F-tilt, F-smash, koopa claw? It isnt technically a combo, as opponent can shield against everything, (and dodge koopa claw) but if you think he is going to shield, you can koopa-claw, if you think that he will dodge, you can jab or F-smash (lol).
I never seen someone doing this.. How effective do you think it can be?
(btw you can jab cancel by crawling after first hit, if you do it really well you will not even see crawling animation.. )

 

[inn0cuous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K8yjNM2UaA

Basically 3 options:
- Bait opponent into attacking you
- Firebreath
- Edge stall on the other side of the stage =/

Those are pretty bad options. I can't attack him at all can I?

And any ideas for baiting the opponent? Edge stalling on the other side is a pretty nice idea actually. Just to piss and mock him for ledge camping the whole time.

I find jabs useful to kill spot dodging, out of shield jabs for spacing and mixups instead of shield grabbing all the time. And generally jabs just for a needed quick attack other than fortressing.

 

[Hobobloke]

i propose we begin this tactical move discussion this thread has been inactive for too long, what say we start with jabs?

 

[Teh Future]

^The poster above you just stated basically the only good thing bowser's jab has imo, and that's hitting people that airdodge.

 

[Hobobloke]

^The poster above you just stated basically the only good thing bowser's jab has imo, and that's hitting people that airdodge.

touche good sir, but perhaps someone else has yet another use for them (probably not but meh)

 

[Crzy]

lol I spam jabs when someone is being overaggressive and I need space. It usually stops them in their tracks and knocks them back enough for me to regain control.

 

[Hobobloke]

lol I spam jabs when someone is being overaggressive and I need space. It usually stops them in their tracks and knocks them back enough for me to regain control.

i do the exact same thing

 

[Cyndi]

^Me, three! lol

 

[Flayl]

I need people to agree/argue with me on this

Also, if the element survivability comes up, I'll put in bearable, seeing as how Bowser is the hardest character to KO horizontally in the game yet his recovery is below average.

 

[Flayl]

delete please. thought the forum had eaten my post.

 

[Hobobloke]

i pretty much agree with everything except i think he could be average if not above average with gimping potential

the OP said "specifically how effective a character is at killing an opponent outside a kill percentage. It does not necessarily mean meteor-smashing or effective edge-guarding, only to the fact that they can kill far before a character is generally expected to die "

bowser is definitely able to kill an opponent at a percentage which usually it would be able to survive, though some of his major kill moves are hard to hit with when they do connect they do their job fsmash and uair for example. well thats just my opinion

 

[Flayl]

Hmm, well fsmash and uair kill when they are expected to kill, so I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Hobobloke]

i agree but i took the OP to mean that they can kill before the character is expected to be killed compared to other characters, if that makes any sense

 

[DiasFlac]

Important question. Is Bowser a turtle or a dragon?

I think snapping turtle

 

[Bowser King]

I don't know O_O

I guess he's both

-Bowser King

 

[Teh Future]

Hey guys I'm having trouble against a luigi user =( anyone have experience? I can beat him with ROb just by edgeguarding but I can't seem to get my bowser to beat him, just with all his 1337 comboness. Come problems I have:

At low percents he begins a combo unpredictably with downb nair ect, but he always leads it into a chian of uptilts. Naturally I try to jump out of it, but the next uptilt hits me before I escape, which takes away my second jump and he gets a free 50% on me. NO BUENO.

A large part of my bowser game is gimps. Luigi seems impossible to gimp with bowser because he always floats to the bottom and then uses downB to either float way above me or into a upB to the ledge. Any ideas on how I can gimp his recovery? So far the only thing that's worked is when he tries to downB I caught him at the end lag of it, but other than that I can't really do anything...

Biggest problem though is his killing power is ********. Seriously. Even through those^ problems I am almost always beating him in stocks/ percent only to get killed by upB at like 80%. lol I get so pissed bowser should never die at 80% but the move is very hard to avoid with bowser's lag(trust me I do everything to minimize it but it's still there regardless) and the fact that I have to approach him. It's not surprising for me to die 2-3 times in this matchup through upB.

any advice? sorry for the long post

 

[Crzy]

I play Luigi myself and I always look forward to playing large characters...mainly because of what you stated. They're extremely easy to combo and if they're reactions are slow I can keep going. Shieldgrab his DownB approach and you'll stop him in his tracks. Outrange him with your Ftilt if he tries to approach with Nair. Though you might be able to use Ftilt or firebreath to stop his Tornado anyway. You can shieldgrab his Nair as well, but if it ever hits you're as good as combod to 50+%. :/

As for edgeguarding....well...you really won't be able to. XD Luigi's recovery is insane with his Tornado and UpB(not counting the misfire). If he's constantly coming from UNDER, then I'd suggest you firebreath edgeguard him by pointing it down. Once he gets hit, if he's an average Luigi, he'll just fall to his death because you can only do a rising tornado once without touching the ground or stage.

I've only faced one or two Bowsers with my Luigi and I really didn't give them any chance to do anything.....so it's sort of hard for me to give specifics. XD

 

[Teh Future]

downB is a good idea since whenever he catches me with his tornado it it's when I'm right about to hit the ground so I can't dodge it and I can't shield it.

 

[Crzy]

No...DON'T use DownB. XD That's asking to be punished if you miss it. Though if you can predict where he'll end up by the end of his Tornado, then by all means try it. But I'd personally use Dair(yes DAIR) as it'll push him away and get some nice damage.

You could try to Airdodge down to the floor so you reach it faster then just hold that shield button and UpB out of shield.

But seriously, Luigi is a hard match-up for Bowser. :/

 

[Teh Future]

I meant neutral B sorry. lol downB. I've actually been messing around with downB from the stage and it's completely underrated. I find it similar to Luigi's upB and rest where it's almost instant hitting, but if you miss you're punished. Still, it kills at like 80-90% on most characters, so it is definitely worth using, especially since people don't expect bowser to get a move off so fast.

also I kinda doubt dair works since luigi's tornado seems to cancel almost everything out, I think neutral B is a better option as long as I don't become predictable with it. If dair does work then that's be awesome since I could switch it up. I'll have to try it out.

 

[KevinM]

Important question. Is Bowser a turtle or a dragon?

I think snapping turtle

Dias to become a true Bowser player you must know your roots, go to the melee boards of Bowser and see what is amiss. We hath answered that question many months ago.

 

[Bowser King]

Dias to become a true Bowser player you must know your roots, go to the melee boards of Bowser and see what is amiss. We hath answered that question many months ago.

Thanks wise Kevin

-Bowser King

 

[Flayl]

Got this from Tactical Boards. I verified Jab, OverB (on the ground), FTilt and DTilt so I'm going to assume the rest is correct. Some stuff is missing:

Jab: 6

Grab: ???
Dash Grab: ???

Forward Tilt: 10
Up Tilt: 8
Down Tilt: 10
Dash Attack: 10

Up Smash: 16
Down Smash: 14
Forward Smash: 26

Forward B (on the ground): 8
Forward B (in the air): ???
Neutral B: 24
Down B (from the ground?): 11
Down B (from the air): ???
Up B: 6

Forward Air: 8
Back Air: 9
Down Air: 14
Up Air: 16
Neutral Air: 9


For kicks:
Up B out of sheild drop lag: 8
Up B out of shield jump cancel: 6/7

 

[FooltheFlames]

Bowser is Godzillas father and sensei.
Bowsers uair is broken lol and has to be my favorite move in the whole game, its godly enhanted!

 

[Hobobloke]

cool frame data flayl, but Fool (FooltheFlames im gunna call u that if thats cool. it makes me feel like mr t =P) broken?? 0_o its quite hard to get it to hit so i wouldnt consider it "broken" by nay means. i understand what ur trying to say which is that it has extremely good knockback when it connects but broken is not the right term

 

[Bowser King]

cool frame data flayl, but Fool (FooltheFlames im gunna call u that if thats cool. it makes me feel like mr t =P) broken?? 0_o its quite hard to get it to hit so i wouldnt consider it "broken" by nay means. i understand what ur trying to say which is that it has extremely good knockback when it connects but broken is not the right term

I think he knows that =/

people call a lot of things "broken" to show that there really good


-Bowser King

 

[Crzy]

Except in Meta's case...then the point stands. XD

 

[Ankyfdarkness]

Is there any good cain grabs for bowser.

I don't think so but still if there is i'd like to know.

 

[Bowser King]

Is there any good cain grabs for bowser.

I don't think so but still if there is i'd like to know.

Only his grab release (which is his only one ).

-Bowser King

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Only his grab release (which is his only one ).

-Bowser King

Yes and most of them are amazing too.

 

[The Pink Mist]

the thing I like about big charecters is the fact that they are meta knight killers. cus meta knight is just anoying as all hell and bowser owns him completely andd its fantastic.
other than that bowsers size clearly is what limits him, hes more vunerable to every move unless you use the fire, and thaats not always a guarntee.