the best falco player ever to grace ssbm?

[choknater]

lmao cort nice sig and avatar

 

[Mogwai]

Chok, your post was almost half decent until you said he can JC break shields, when it's ALWAYS possible to roll out and stop it. There's actually 2 frames you can do this vs Falco and 1 against Fox (and you can buffer it in to do it asap by holding shield + c stick left or right.) Recall Adventure in Fox vs GigaBowser. He was able to dodge roll out of the way of his rapid shines.

You guys judge from videos, and that's it. His old, 3 or 4 sets of videos. That's pathetic if you think about it. He hasn't even beaten Ken in a set.

You guys can't even start to imagine what "mindgames" are just from watching his flashy videos. I wish PC vs Azen was recorded and put up at MLG Vegas, it's a true professional of the game at some of his finest points. He's not ridiculously flashy, he's ridiculously smart and careful, mixed in with as much technical skill as he can afford before being too eccentric to mess up and get *****.

PC is easily the best Falco player in the country, and probably the only "really good" one. He beat Hiko without too much trouble at OC2, and the Japanese considered Hiko to be just as good as BS...

It's pretty pointless to even try sometimes, though.

Good to see some people agree with me on this one.

Honestly people, get over the BS craze, there's no reason to believe he's the best thing since sliced bread. I must have missed when people started considering losing to Ken in a major tournament better to beating Ken in a major tournament. And everyone who's been pointing out that he plays stupidly is entirely correct. He gets away with poor plays by having very good fingers and a fabulous character, but with all due respect to BS's technical game, he could play much much more intelligently. He goes balls to the walls every time he respawns and only looks to combo. Ken showed him how a true professional should play the game and simply played smarter that whole match with the exception of that atempt at flash with the falling counter. And as to the Manacloud statements about him breaking shields with shine, just read Cort's post, it's actually impossible. If someone could verify how rediculous he's become, I might believe it, but until then, I'm just going to assume that Manacloud is ******* around with BS fanboys and giving them some fodder to use in these horrible discussions that always break out when we start rating Falco players.

Ok, rant over, use tournament results to rate characters and players, not how cool they look. PC's the best.

Also, is anyone else tired of people using the term "mindgames" as a blanket term to describe how smart someone plays? People just throw the term out there on this thread all the time, and in reality, what they're refering to is how PC is thinking while playing while you could write a computer program to play the way BS does. I still love saying, "mindgames son!" when my opponent SDs and all, but it's really just a cliche to me at this point and I wish people would actually think about what they're trying to say rather than just using the term, when trying to carry on a discussion.

 

[Cort]

Also, is anyone else tired of people using the term "mindgames" as a blanket term to describe how smart someone plays? People just throw the term out there on this thread all the time, and in reality, what they're refering to is how PC is thinking while playing while you could write a computer program to play the way BS does. I still love saying, "mindgames son!" when my opponent SDs and all, but it's really just a cliche to me at this point and I wish people would actually think about what they're trying to say rather than just using the term, when trying to carry on a discussion.

A-****ing-men. I think the term "mindgames" itself just sounds ridiculously stupid too, and only jokingly use it as much as possible.

A good friend of mine says the same concept is used in other kinds of games, even TCGs. Except they're called "tricks". People have "tricks".

Whoever first started calling it "mindgames" should be shot.

edit// Man, I'm glad I finally said that. It's been building up inside of me for the last couple of months.

 

[Miharu]

Good to see some people agree with me on this one.

Honestly people, get over the BS craze, there's no reason to believe he's the best thing since sliced bread. I must have missed when people started considering losing to Ken in a major tournament better to beating Ken in a major tournament. And everyone who's been pointing out that he plays stupidly is entirely correct. He gets away with poor plays by having very good fingers and a fabulous character, but with all due respect to BS's technical game, he could play much much more intelligently. He goes balls to the walls every time he respawns and only looks to combo. Ken showed him how a true professional should play the game and simply played smarter that whole match with the exception of that atempt at flash with the falling counter. And as to the Manacloud statements about him breaking shields with shine, just read Cort's post, it's actually impossible. If someone could verify how rediculous he's become, I might believe it, but until then, I'm just going to assume that Manacloud is ******* around with BS fanboys and giving them some fodder to use in these horrible discussions that always break out when we start rating Falco players.

There's no set way how a professional should play. And you're completely overlooking the smart decisions that BS does happen to make, and just focusing on his errors, which although are large in number, aren't the end of everything.

Ok, rant over, use tournament results to rate characters and players, not how cool they look. PC's the best.

Agree with you here.

Also, is anyone else tired of people using the term "mindgames" as a blanket term to describe how smart someone plays? People just throw the term out there on this thread all the time, and in reality, what they're refering to is how PC is thinking while playing while you could write a computer program to play the way BS does. I still love saying, "mindgames son!" when my opponent SDs and all, but it's really just a cliche to me at this point and I wish people would actually think about what they're trying to say rather than just using the term, when trying to carry on a discussion.

You can't write a computer program to play the way BS does, not with where technology is at today. That's just utter bull****. Both players think. It's probably not as apparent because BS has overwhelming technical skill, and it just appears that he's just performing set move after set move.

A-****ing-men. I think the term "mindgames" itself just sounds ridiculously stupid too, and only jokingly use it as much as possible.

A good friend of mine says the same concept is used in other kinds of games, even TCGs. Except they're called "tricks". People have "tricks".

Whoever first started calling it "mindgames" should be shot.

edit// Man, I'm glad I finally said that. It's been building up inside of me for the last couple of months.

Have to agree with the part about mindgames being used as a horrible generalization. It's just too simple a term that's used to describe too many things at once.

 

[Reik]

Chok, your post was almost half decent until you said he can JC break shields, when it's ALWAYS possible to roll out and stop it.

Even though it's impossible to shieldbreak someone with repeated JC shines, it's still an extremely useful pressure technique.

If the opponent holds his shield for too long, the chance of getting shieldstabbed increases. If the opponent tries to grab, jump, or roll at the wrong time, he gets shined and you can hit-confirm into a follow-up move... DI depending, of course. Since it's so scary, any time you find a relative opening you can often trick people into rolling.

Something that works really well against JC shines though is lightshielding. You get pushed out of shine range and can just shieldgrab him. Well, at least Marth can. So it's not a broken technique.

 

[cablepuff]

k base on aim result so far... (

forward:
pc, dope, b-will.

drephen:
dope, pc, forward.

edit:
fonz:
pc, forward, dope.

 

[Lixivium]

He gets away with poor plays by having very good fingers and a fabulous character, but with all due respect to BS's technical game, he could play much much more intelligently. He goes balls to the walls every time he respawns and only looks to combo.

Now that's very much true. The smart thing to do against Ken would have been to sit back and spam a little instead of the non-stop aggro laser rush - make Marth approach him instead. But I guess that just wasn't BS's style.

And as to the Manacloud statements about him breaking shields with shine, just read Cort's post, it's actually impossible.

It's one thing to say that you can theoretically get out of certain techniques and another thing to do it in an actual match. There were countless times Jing/Masashi/Ken recovered near the edge, shielded a laser, and immediately got grabbed and tossed out again, even though I'm sure they all saw it coming and knew what to do in that situation.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

@Cort: You also should read the thread and find out how many people actually trusted that statement. Most people here do not believe Hiko is better.

 

[M3RC]

@Cort: You also should read the thread and find out how many people actually trusted that statement. Most people here do not believe Hiko is better.

Most people here have not seen Hiko vs. Bombsoldier.

 

[Ryan-K]

@Cort: You also should read the thread and find out how many people actually trusted that statement. Most people here do not believe Hiko is better.

Ok so lets see who should i trust a bunch of randoms who have never played hiko or bombsoldier or the people who play them?

Tricky indeed.

 

[Mr.C]

double pizzle

 

[Mr.C]

pc chris is the best falco no doubt
bomb soldier has nothing on him lol dont say dat ****

 

[DaShizWiz]

JGT's videos of bombsoldier show a LOT of mindgames, people. His falco makes very smart and clever decisions, all the while putting his opponent under pressure. And according to manacloud, he jc shines to break shields now. Nobody else can do this.

I have seen some amazing Falcos play. I've played against ROB$, DA Dav3. I've watched PC's videos many times, and I saw Forward play against Ken live at NCT2. Despite their amazing level of skill, none of them can maintain such a high level of combo ability and tech skill as bombsoldier under the pressure of a tournament final.

I agree with this, when I watch his videos I can also see a lot of mindgames at play. Breaking shields with JC'ed shines is a very technical thing, once you get the hang of it it becomes easier, because I can do this to. I would go with saying Bombsoldier is the best Falco. I don't know if the JGT Finals were a set out of 5 or 7, but he did beat Ken three times before Ken beat him. But I think Bombsoldier was in the Losers Bracket. I've also played lots of good falco in the U.S. like, P.C., my bro has played Dope, and he's played Tink, I've played DA Dav3.

I was pretty even with DA Dav3 at FC, but when I MM P.C. he 2-1'd me in a Falco ditto. By watching his videos I never thought he was really that good, but once you play him, his mindgames just mess with your mind. So I watch Bombsoldier vids, after getting much better from FC, my mind has gotten much stronger. But for my opinion, I'd say Bombsoldier is the best Falco. His tech skill is amazing, and if you watch closely, you can see his mindgames. See IMO what P.C. lacks to be the best Falco is his tech skill. If he was as technical as Bombsoldier, he'd easily be the best falco. But if they were to ever falco ditto, I'm pretty confident Bombsoldier would win. I mean honestly guys, watch this video. Does my Falco look good enough to take a match off of Bombsoldier? I don't want to hear this stuff about P.C. being bad in Falco dittos, I just think he doesn't like them. But not liking them doesn't make you bad in them, IMO he is ridiculously good in Falco dittos.

BTW, yeah the JC'ed shines Choknater, are really not to dificult, you just have to have mad good timing and quick hands. Watch in this video, btw if you want help with anything just ask me in my thread .

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uZ7iSVHrNGA

 

[Mr.C]

dsw you also have to relize playing pc and getting him 2-1 means nothing
ive played pc's falco and got him to 1 stock with my falco out of a set both matchs
and i know im no where near his skill level
you also have to relize pc gets top three at every mlg, was the first to ever take down ken , every time he has played with ken ina 11 set match its to the last one.

usa's competition has better players, getting top 16 at an mlg is like getting top 3 at japan

 

[Ryan-K]

he beat ken in 2 matches and then ken beat him in the rest of the matches

it was a set of 7, hence why there are 6 matches. If BS won 3 it owuld have went to all 7, but even if he won the set he would have to win the second set

also shiz ibelieve you mean pressuring shields not breaking because breaking shields is when they get all stunned and crap and you can buffer roll from jc shines no matter how many and how quick they are done look at adventure like cort said heh

also noone combos ken anymore because after he faced bombsoldier he got sick of it and DIs.

When marth DIs the shine it can be pretty difficult to follow up, even bombsoldier came up short in that department, so its kind of unfair to compare ken from a year ago and the ken from now who knows how to face falcos alot better.

 

[AS Money]

why is the best falco being deturmaned by how hard of a time ken has with them

this would mean that KDJ is just godly cuz he can beat ken

oh ya he lost to P.C.

which means since ken can beat bombsoldier but cant seem beat KDJ and KDJ didn't beat P.C.

and i dont know why i am bringing this up cuz it was a while ago back at SSA4 in the finals it was P.C. vs tink and P.C. couldn't win too well with falco against tinks falco he had to go marth(yes he did win the tourny but not with falco in the end)

Tink the best falco????

"OMG ken had a hard time beating <insert name here> must be the best ever" that crap is getting old

 

[Brookman]

This topic is getting mildly redundant and there is alot of baseless opinions being hurled around like poop by a bunch of monkey-men

 

[NusCirtap]

Chris just said that if I beat his marth once he will give me best falco in the world title. So far nobody has been able to beat his marth but I will do it. A new challenger has arrived... I wish.

 

[KeepSpeedN]

i say that there both really good. but we only can compare with recent stuff not years old stuff of bs and recent junk with pc.. its like comparing m2k's fox a year ago 2 kdj's fox now..

 

[blast_ssbb]

I say:

Smartest: PC
Most Technical: Bombsoldier
Spammiest: Mathos
My personal Favs to watch: Forward and Shiz

whichever way u prefer to play pick an idol. I personally loves shiz's combos and Forwards crazy style! I measure how good someone is, like wesley said by how they do in tourneys and considering how old bombsoldiers stuff is, gotta give the crown to PC. I still idolize bombsoldier as well as all the others i mentioned but ppl need to stop being biased and look at the facts.

 

[Two.Of.Hearts]

As far as which videos a beginning falco should study, (which IS what this post was originally about, I believe) Bombsoldier wins, if only because those videos basically show the basic framework for what all the other big names are doing. There's not much point in trying to understand why PC or Shiz are doing what they are doing if you don't understand what Bombsoldier is doing.

Plus, it does look pretty cool.

 

[DaShizWiz]

I'll post later *accident post*

 

[Epok]

im goin with Bomb Soldier

 

[Mogwai]

This topic is getting mildly redundant and there is alot of baseless opinions being hurled around like poop by a bunch of monkey-men

Ha, couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[bornfidelity.com]

Now that's very much true. The smart thing to do against Ken would have been to sit back and spam a little instead of the non-stop aggro laser rush - make Marth approach him instead. But I guess that just wasn't BS's style.

Because, giving one of the best players of the world control over the match is a smart thing to do..?

 

[PNaleek]

OK, the best Falco overall is Forward.

 

[DaShizWiz]

This thread should get closed. Best Falco doesn't matter. We know who the good ones are.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

why is this thread still alive??

anyway I'd say PC, forward, Shiz, Lambchops, Hiko (it also depends on the match up you're looking for)

 

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

The best one i ever played was a guy at a nintendo world (Before it started) tournament. When he told me his name i thought he was alittle weird, Amazed by his skills i went home and got ten times better with my Sheik hoping to battle him again... his name was THE WARRIOR OF ZARONA P.S i wanna battle you again.

 

[Miharu]

The best one i ever played was a guy at a nintendo world (Before it started) tournament. When he told me his name i thought he was alittle weird, Amazed by his skills i went home and got ten times better with my Sheik hoping to battle him again... his name was THE WARRIOR OF ZARONA P.S i wanna battle you again.

...

WoZ doesn't even main/second/third/whatever Falco...