Q&A The Barracks - Robin Q&A Thread [ASK GAMEPLAY QUESTIONS HERE]

[CharZane]

My own secondary's been Lucina, given how well melee Marth always worked against the rushdown of space animals or such-- though, against Little Mac, I'm not so sure of how well that matchup works-- his unique super-armor spam makes comparing him to past matchups quite a bit more difficult.

Not sure who Lucina will do better against, really, but she's my second more out of intuitivity than knowing the matchups she'd work for or anything like that.

 

[AlienWarhead]

Something still feels off when I play Robin, like Levin sword ground smash attacks are too slow or get beat out by other people's attacks. Also I still a problem with people rolling too much, down smash only works sometimes, maybe I need to sidestep or roll cancel grab more. Speaking of grab I don't know how to combo off of down grab, people are usually thrown too far to be hit. I still have a problem with landing Robin's air attacks, I turned off up tap jump and I think that helps. I hope I get more advice and become better with Robin, thanks everyone!

 

[CharZane]

Something still feels off when I play Robin, like Levin sword ground smash attacks are too slow or get beat out by other people's attacks. Also I still a problem with people rolling too much, down smash only works sometimes, maybe I need to sidestep or roll cancel grab more. Speaking of grab I don't know how to combo off of down grab, people are usually thrown too far to be hit. I still have a problem with landing Robin's air attacks, I turned off up tap jump and I think that helps. I hope I get more advice and become better with Robin, thanks everyone!

Don't smash attack, to start off. Punishable smashes like Robin's are best used only when a foe absolutely cannot respond-- simplest example being a missed rest or ending up charging some laggy attack in the wrong direction. If you miss with a single smash attack, you're overusing them. Ftilt is an infinitely safer ground move, and you don't get screwed by a miss due to rolls or shields as easily.

Rollspammers are trickier to punish as Robin, but the key is that Dsmash is not some be-all-end-all answer as it might be on someone like Little Mac or Pikachu. If they roll towards you from a range, Dsmash can certainly punish that from time to time, but rolling past you is best delt with via Ftilt, Arcfire, Dtilt, or a jab combo, depending on the location and character. Move as little as possible and their rolling will be far easier to punish, barring the 'roll away and projectile spam' sorts like 90% of Samuses or 50% of Lucarios.

Robin's grabs are, honestly, not that important to combo compared to most other characters-- Robin lacks for combos off throws other than the occasional Dthrow Usmash/Utilt/Uair. Uthrow them into an Uair at lower percents can do, while Fthrow and Bthrow are mostly for getting them offstage-- Fthrow might be used to loosely set a potential spike, while Bthrow's got nice KO power. That all said, Robin's grab is the game's worst, so it's not exactly the highest priority compared to say, Dedede, who has a game revolving around grabs.

As for aerials, the key is that you should expect it to fail unless a foe is in the air or in hitstun/helpless (typically the latter is due to an Arcfire/Arcthunder trap). Robin rather lacks for 'safe on shield' aerials, so focus on using them to juggle and to combo from Arcfire and such rather than trying to use them as an approach or the like-- that's not really Robin's strongsuit. Nair is your 'safest' aerial, while Ftilt is one of your safest ground attacks (only really beaten in safety by Dtilt, which has less range), so keeping those as a focus will help quite a bit. While Robin's Fair is fantastic for damage and all, keep in mind that it's considered her second-worse aerial simply because of how outstanding Uair, Bair, and Nair are.

Hope that helps a bit-- though I admit to lacking any solid advice for the projectile-heavy form of rollspammers beyond 'power shield and Thoron', which is certainly a case of 'easier said than done'.

 

[Kendude]

Is there any reason to not hold down B while using Thoron? Also does doing that consume more uses of the thunder tome?

 

[Cho]

I enjoy playing Robin, but I am so bad with him, it's a shame really...
That's being said, thanks CharZane - your posts really help!

 

[False Sense]

Is there any reason to not hold down B while using Thoron? Also does doing that consume more uses of the thunder tome?

I think it has a slightly longer ending lag... But in almost all situations, you'd want to hold down B.

 

[Delzethin]

I think it has a slightly longer ending lag... But in almost all situations, you'd want to hold down B.

Especially if you're running Thunder+.

 

[Tacticulbacon]

When does Robin attack with his levin sword in the air? I know he keeps his levin sword out when you smash and switches back to his bronze sword for jabs and tilts, but sometimes I'll do an aerial move and he automatically switches to levin sword even when his bronze sword was out previously. Anyone know if there's a pattern to the aerials and how to take the levin sword out without smashing first?

 

[Hong]

When does Robin attack with his levin sword in the air? I know he keeps his levin sword out when you smash and switches back to his bronze sword for jabs and tilts, but sometimes I'll do an aerial move and he automatically switches to levin sword even when his bronze sword was out previously. Anyone know if there's a pattern to the aerials and how to take the levin sword out without smashing first?

You draw the Levin Sword in the air if you utilize a Smash Attack input. Currently, Robin is the only character whose aerial attacks can be of two variants based on whether or not you perform a Smash Attack, so you have to get used to it. If you have the Bronze Sword drawn and want to only use the Bronze Sword, make a gentle motion, like you would with a tilt attack.

 

[AlienWarhead]

I'm feeling pretty slow as Robin, sometimes I can't seem to hit anyone or punish attacks like Mario's sliding dash attack. Also smash attacks come out more often then I like, maybe I should try dashing grabs or roll cancel grabs more. I tried using Lucina and she feels better, but I still got beat as her, I think I should try sticking with my main Robin to get better.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I've started dabbling in Robin recently and even though Thunder+ seems like a pretty clear winner for the neutral special slot, I wanted to know what others thought about Thunder and Speed Thunder. Also, what about the rest of his custom options?

But that segues into my question, really, which is that of what to do when one has neither better aerial range or speed, along with having almost no use for thunder for ranged pressure.

I speak, of course, of Rosalina.

Many have a means of nullifying ranged attacks, granted, but surprise doesn't even work when one has the omnipresent tank of a Luma to force failure of all but Thoron (which can rarely be reached given Luma shot+star bits offering better, safer ranged pressure).
Many have aerials of similarly disjointed hitboxes that are faster, like Marth, yet I can think of none that force you to also approach them...

Little Mac may be a stressful matchup, but Rosalina feels... almost handicapping. I'm sure it's apt to be a matter of finding a shift in playstyle to suit the matchup, but I've yet to come across such... Anyone with more luck in finding some practice against good Rosilumas come up with a more solid plan? The usual 'projectiles to force an approach into air superiority' versus 'methodical spacing ground-game' choice feels to be equally damning given that Luma enforces ground control while her aerials rule the skies... Hm...

As a Rosalina main, I've struggled against some good Robins I've encountered in For Glory. (So Omega stages only, no customs, etc.) I believe Arcfire is one of your strongest tools against her, since it completely neutralizes Luma for its duration and I'm not entirely certain it's safe for Rosalina to absorb it given its relatively short range. And once the projectile lands and turns into the fire pillar it can't be absorbed anyway. The Levin Sword in general hurts more than usual since Rosalina's super light, and I believe it outranges her nair, fair, and bair. Or at least I had a devil of a time trying to space myself to not get hit by it. Elwind puts the kibosh on uair juggle attempts but also puts Robin in helpless.

Thoron is a complete no sell due to Gravitational Pull unless you catch Rosalina off guard, but simply having it charged can be a mindgame in itself.

Hope some of this helped.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Elwind puts the kibosh on uair juggle attempts but also puts Robin in helpless.

Robins need to be very careful when trying this. Elwind will sometimes be negated by certain character's aerials. For instance, greninja's uair can tank both elwind hits with no negative repercussion while Robin gets put into freefall.

 

[Hong]

I've started dabbling in Robin recently and even though Thunder+ seems like a pretty clear winner for the neutral special slot, I wanted to know what others thought about Thunder and Speed Thunder. Also, what about the rest of his custom options?

There is a solid argument that the faster Elthunder and Arcthunder of Speed Thunder is better against rushdown fighters, noteably Little Mac. Essentially, in the matchups where the stun and flinch factors of the spell is more important than the damage, Speed Thunder can prove to be a valid alternative.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Robins need to be very careful when trying this. Elwind will sometimes be negated by certain character's aerials. For instance, greninja's uair can tank both elwind hits with no negative repercussion while Robin gets put into freefall.

It's definitely high risk, but it can still be an option in some situations. Didn't know Greninja could eat it with uair though.

 

[Mac2492]

I'm feeling pretty slow as Robin, sometimes I can't seem to hit anyone or punish attacks like Mario's sliding dash attack. Also smash attacks come out more often then I like, maybe I should try dashing grabs or roll cancel grabs more. I tried using Lucina and she feels better, but I still got beat as her, I think I should try sticking with my main Robin to get better.

Robin isn't a rushdown character. I'd suggest keeping a distance with Elthunder, Arcfire, and Arcthunder. The latter two last long enough that you can usually followup if they hit or grab/nosferatu if they shield. Robin's projectile game is devastating so there's no reason to charge straight in. Zone your enemies and let them come to you. If you have any spare time you should be charging Arcthunder/Thoron (especially while recovering in the air). Use chunky moves like Arcthunder and Arcfire to stall and charge Thunder again. PROJECTILES.

Once you're in close-quarters try to use fewer smash attacks and focus more on aerials + tilts. Fire jab is also incredibly useful. Only use Usmash if they're recovering from the air (even then Uair is usually superior), and Dsmash generally trumps Fsmash but only use either as a punish on a slow move. Dsmash can also counter a roll if timed properly. Punish shields with roll cancel grab. Start punishing with Nosferatu at higher percentages. If you knock them out of combo range immediately resume your projectile game.

Once you're comfortable fighting at both ranges start mixing it up. Jump in with Arcfire into Nosferatu or ftilt into an off-stage Thoron. Robin has tools for every range. The trick is to avoid forcing yourself into a specific range and instead make the enemy play to yours. Don't try to beat a Marth in a straight up sword fight. Soften him up with projectiles first and then finish with a Thoron or Levin Sword blow.

I've started dabbling in Robin recently and even though Thunder+ seems like a pretty clear winner for the neutral special slot, I wanted to know what others thought about Thunder and Speed Thunder. Also, what about the rest of his custom options?

Thunder feels like an unnecessary middle point. Due to the usefulness of throwing tomes and speed of tome regeneration I wouldn't use it except out of necessity. Speed Thunder is useful to counter fast-projectile spammers and rushdown characters. Being able to charge up to Arcthunder quickly is its strongest point. Thoron loses its bite but becomes a viable cross-stage poke. I would use it over Thunder+ when matched up against someone like Shiek who won't give you much time to charge.

Arcfire+ is bad. The startup is too long, the damage and knockback are mediocre, and the fact that it doesn't persist is the nail in the coffin. Fire Wall is a spectacular zoning tool. It's especially useful against characters who dash in like Little Mac thanks to its speed and duration. Definitely a solid pick for certain matchups. Arcfire's default is a solid pick all-around. It is preferable to Fire Wall against large, heavy characters because it's much easier to land on them.

Elwind and Nosferatu I haven't experimented as much with. Soaring Elwind feels a bit too punishable thanks to the delay before the second swing. The improved recovery is a boon so it's a viable pick against opponents who don't have good off-stage punishment. Picking it against someone like Megaman is essentially asking to be killed. Gliding Elwind is a fairly safe mixup for offense. It has a bad tendency to smash your head into the bottom of the stage while recovering from the side, but it somewhat makes up for this by giving you a tricky maneuver when recovering from high in the air. You can also reverse short hop at point blank range as a surprise attack or combo it out of Arcfire, making it a very interesting choice at the very least. Goetia is solid if you want a command grab that deals good damage. The long startup time is a bit troublesome but the increased size and suction balance it out. Distant Nosferatu is decent but it sacrifices heal scaling. You can pick it it to extend combos and punish from afar but utility-wise Nosferatu is superior. It's basically a cheap compromise between Goetia and Nosferatu while retaining some use unlike Thunder.

tl;dr; My early opinion: Ignore Arcfire+ and Thunder. Distant Nosferatu and Soaring Elwind are situational picks. Everything else is a solid choice.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Thunder feels like an unnecessary middle point. Due to the usefulness of throwing tomes and speed of tome regeneration I wouldn't use it except out of necessity. Speed Thunder is useful to counter fast-projectile spammers and rushdown characters. Being able to charge up to Arcthunder quickly is its strongest point. Thoron loses its bite but becomes a viable cross-stage poke. I would use it over Thunder+ when matched up against someone like Shiek who won't give you much time to charge.

Arcfire+ is bad. The startup is too long, the damage and knockback are mediocre, and the fact that it doesn't persist is the nail in the coffin. Fire Wall is a spectacular zoning tool. It's especially useful against characters who dash in like Little Mac thanks to its speed and duration. Definitely a solid pick for certain matchups. Arcfire's default is a solid pick all-around. It is preferable to Fire Wall against large, heavy characters because it's much easier to land on them.

Elwind and Nosferatu I haven't experimented as much with. Soaring Elwind feels a bit too punishable thanks to the delay before the second swing. The improved recovery is a boon so it's a viable pick against opponents who don't have good off-stage punishment. Picking it against someone like Megaman is essentially asking to be killed. Gliding Elwind is a fairly safe mixup for offense. It has a bad tendency to smash your head into the bottom of the stage while recovering from the side, but it somewhat makes up for this by giving you a tricky maneuver when recovering from high in the air. You can also reverse short hop at point blank range as a surprise attack or combo it out of Arcfire, making it a very interesting choice at the very least. Goetia is solid if you want a command grab that deals good damage. The long startup time is a bit troublesome but the increased size and suction balance it out. Distant Nosferatu is decent but it sacrifices heal scaling. You can pick it it to extend combos and punish from afar but utility-wise Nosferatu is superior. It's basically a cheap compromise between Goetia and Nosferatu while retaining some use unlike Thunder.

This is quite helpful. From what I'm gathering, it sounds like Robin essentially has two key custom sets to work with, those being Thunder+/Arcfire for matchups where he can keep his distance and Speed Thunder/Fire Wall for dealing with rushdown that won't give him the space needed for the other set? (With Elwind and Nosferatu being down to taste.)

Speed Thunder may also have an advantage in recovery; charging Thoron gives Robin his double jump back because reasons.

I did notice that Distant Nosferatu hits at basically the exact same range as Arcfire. Training mode doesn't count Arcfire > Distant Nosferatu as a combo, but it seems like a decent mixup.

 

[Mac2492]

This is quite helpful. From what I'm gathering, it sounds like Robin essentially has two key custom sets to work with, those being Thunder+/Arcfire for matchups where he can keep his distance and Speed Thunder/Fire Wall for dealing with rushdown that won't give him the space needed for the other set? (With Elwind and Nosferatu being down to taste.)

Speed Thunder may also have an advantage in recovery; charging Thoron gives Robin his double jump back because reasons.

I did notice that Distant Nosferatu hits at basically the exact same range as Arcfire. Training mode doesn't count Arcfire > Distant Nosferatu as a combo, but it seems like a decent mixup.

That's actually the exact setup I use for my customs. You could still make the case that having just one of the moves provides enough to stop a rushdown character, allowing you to pick up a slow, ranged punish for the second move. I personally prefer wielding both as it feels like a stronger counter-pick in both cases.

Great point about Speed Thunder. The triple jump is incredibly situational but Speed Thunder makes it more viable at least.

People have mentioned Arcfire -> Distant Nosferatu in other threads so that's definitely a viable mixup. It deals about 10 damage and heals 5, which is fair enough for an easy combo. There are stronger ways to combo out of Arcfire but a net 15% advantage is solid. Outside of this combo it tends to be inferior since a well-placed Arcfire or Arcthunder are more powerful options even against a shielding opponent (the shield-stun is often long enough to land a normal Nosferatu).

 

[False Sense]

Ok, so as of late I seem to be doing quite well with Robin, and I can play pretty good while on the stage. However, I've noticed that I'm not too good at off-stage maneuvering; I tend to rack up quite a bit of damage there, so even if I make it back, it's usually after the opponent has gained an upper hand. So, I ask, what's Robin's best strategy for getting back on the stage safely after getting knocked off?

 

[AlienWarhead]

Robin isn't a rushdown character. I'd suggest keeping a distance with Elthunder, Arcfire, and Arcthunder. The latter two last long enough that you can usually followup if they hit or grab/nosferatu if they shield. Robin's projectile game is devastating so there's no reason to charge straight in. Zone your enemies and let them come to you. If you have any spare time you should be charging Arcthunder/Thoron (especially while recovering in the air). Use chunky moves like Arcthunder and Arcfire to stall and charge Thunder again. PROJECTILES.

Once you're in close-quarters try to use fewer smash attacks and focus more on aerials + tilts. Fire jab is also incredibly useful. Only use Usmash if they're recovering from the air (even then Uair is usually superior), and Dsmash generally trumps Fsmash but only use either as a punish on a slow move. Dsmash can also counter a roll if timed properly. Punish shields with roll cancel grab. Start punishing with Nosferatu at higher percentages. If you knock them out of combo range immediately resume your projectile game.

Once you're comfortable fighting at both ranges start mixing it up. Jump in with Arcfire into Nosferatu or ftilt into an off-stage Thoron. Robin has tools for every range. The trick is to avoid forcing yourself into a specific range and instead make the enemy play to yours. Don't try to beat a Marth in a straight up sword fight. Soften him up with projectiles first and then finish with a Thoron or Levin Sword blow.


Thunder feels like an unnecessary middle point. Due to the usefulness of throwing tomes and speed of tome regeneration I wouldn't use it except out of necessity. Speed Thunder is useful to counter fast-projectile spammers and rushdown characters. Being able to charge up to Arcthunder quickly is its strongest point. Thoron loses its bite but becomes a viable cross-stage poke. I would use it over Thunder+ when matched up against someone like Shiek who won't give you much time to charge.

Arcfire+ is bad. The startup is too long, the damage and knockback are mediocre, and the fact that it doesn't persist is the nail in the coffin. Fire Wall is a spectacular zoning tool. It's especially useful against characters who dash in like Little Mac thanks to its speed and duration. Definitely a solid pick for certain matchups. Arcfire's default is a solid pick all-around. It is preferable to Fire Wall against large, heavy characters because it's much easier to land on them.

Elwind and Nosferatu I haven't experimented as much with. Soaring Elwind feels a bit too punishable thanks to the delay before the second swing. The improved recovery is a boon so it's a viable pick against opponents who don't have good off-stage punishment. Picking it against someone like Megaman is essentially asking to be killed. Gliding Elwind is a fairly safe mixup for offense. It has a bad tendency to smash your head into the bottom of the stage while recovering from the side, but it somewhat makes up for this by giving you a tricky maneuver when recovering from high in the air. You can also reverse short hop at point blank range as a surprise attack or combo it out of Arcfire, making it a very interesting choice at the very least. Goetia is solid if you want a command grab that deals good damage. The long startup time is a bit troublesome but the increased size and suction balance it out. Distant Nosferatu is decent but it sacrifices heal scaling. You can pick it it to extend combos and punish from afar but utility-wise Nosferatu is superior. It's basically a cheap compromise between Goetia and Nosferatu while retaining some use unlike Thunder.

tl;dr; My early opinion: Ignore Arcfire+ and Thunder. Distant Nosferatu and Soaring Elwind are situational picks. Everything else is a solid choice.

I do use projectiles a lot, but I can't always do that, spells run out, people rush in, maybe they can reflect it, or the other guy is better at projectiles so I have to use melee attacks sometimes and I'm not great at it. I should try tilts more, but aerials aren't working for me and there was a tip saying they would probably miss unless the person was in hitstun, that's usually the case for me. I do like Robin, but sometimes characters like sheik run circles around me.

 

[Mac2492]

Ok, so as of late I seem to be doing quite well with Robin, and I can play pretty good while on the stage. However, I've noticed that I'm not too good at off-stage maneuvering; I tend to rack up quite a bit of damage there, so even if I make it back, it's usually after the opponent has gained an upper hand. So, I ask, what's Robin's best strategy for getting back on the stage safely after getting knocked off?

It is a bit difficult to recover due to Robin's floaty recovery. If you're recovering from the side you can try throwing a gutsy Arcfire or charged Thunder spell as a deterrence to campers. Robin's aerials can trump those of many characters if they attempt to off-stage edge guard. If at any point you end up above your opponent consider going for an Up B or Dair. Best-case scenario you get a spike.

I've also seen some Robins use Up B over the stage to prevent enemies from charging smashes. This tactic is too risky imo but if used sparingly it's actually a decent trick.

I do use projectiles a lot, but I can't always do that, spells run out, people rush in, maybe they can reflect it, or the other guy is better at projectiles so I have to use melee attacks sometimes and I'm not great at it. I should try tilts more, but aerials aren't working for me and there was a tip saying they would probably miss unless the person was in hitstun, that's usually the case for me. I do like Robin, but sometimes characters like sheik run circles around me.

Try not to use Robin's projectiles haphazardly. At the cost of being non-spammable, Robin's projectiles are some of the strongest in the game. Also try to capitalize on the fact that tomes/levin sword are powerful thrown items, giving you an option even after running out of uses.

"People rush in" isn't very specific. If you know they're going to rush in then punish them for it. Reflectors can be problematic for Robin but so far I don't consider them a hard counter. You simply need to be more prudent with your projectile placement, and it's possible to bait and punish those reflect moves (just like baiting a counter).

If other players are better at projectiles then get better with projectiles. If other characters are better at projectile spam then don't try to win a projectile spam war as Robin. If you're not great with melee attacks then practice them more. Robin's melee attacks are crucial. Do use tilts more. Robin's smashes are powerful but too laggy. Robin has good aerials and Uair/Nair are very fast. I'm don't know what tip that refers to but it is inaccurate.

Shiek is considered a counter to Robin. Assuming equal skill, Shiek probably has an edge. If customs are allowed consider Speed Thunder and Fire Wall as they even out the matchup a bit.

 

[Demonstormkill]

aerials aren't working for me and there was a tip saying they would probably miss unless the person was in hitstun, that's usually the case for me.

Robin has good aerials and Uair/Nair are very fast. I'm don't know what tip that refers to but it is inaccurate.

I think this is the context:

Speaking of grab I don't know how to combo off of down grab, people are usually thrown too far to be hit.

As for aerials, the key is that you should expect it to fail unless a foe is in the air or in hitstun/helpless (typically the latter is due to an Arcfire/Arcthunder trap).

CharZane seems to be talking in more general terms but basically in most cases Dthrow -> Uair isn't a combo, it's just a follow-up attempt. So you should assume that your opponent will be able to escape it and try to trap them by varying your follow-up. In many cases the option of a quick Uair pressures your opponent to air-dodge after the dthrow, and you can anticipate the dodge to hit them afterwards, depending on the knockback on Dthrow you might use a ground attack or aerial to do so. If they double jump out of it that limits their options in the air and you're almost always going to be at an advantage with someone above you because of Uair's godliness. If you're new to these ideas, juggling mindgames are one of the best ways you can improve your play; they teach you the importance of (landing) lag and clarify the concept of a basic positional advantage.

 

[Dropkick Laser]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but how's the shield damage on thoron+?

 

[Raziek]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but how's the shield damage on thoron+?

http://youtu.be/xDPImC5OQCo?t=22m28s

Immense.

Very close to a shield break from full shield.

Edit: Actually, that was not the best example, I didn't hit him with the full beam. One moment while I find a better one.

Edit 2: Here's a better example from the same set. http://youtu.be/xDPImC5OQCo?t=16m48s

 

[papermarkis]

There's 4 possibilities:

1. It always uses Bronze Sword
2. It always uses Levin Sword if you have it
3. It uses either Levin or Bronze sword depending on if you smash the stick or not
4. It uses whichever sword is currently equipped

I'm hoping either 1 or 2 so the C-stick can be reliable

 

[Hong]

There's 4 possibilities:

1. It always uses Bronze Sword
2. It always uses Levin Sword if you have it
3. It uses either Levin or Bronze sword depending on if you smash the stick or not
4. It uses whichever sword is currently equipped

I'm hoping either 1 or 2 so the C-stick can be reliable

@ Raziek has confirmed that the C-stick draws the Levin Sword.

Your thread falls under the umbrella of a simple question, so I've gone ahead and moved it here.

Edit - His quote:

It absolutely does. C-stick will give you a Levin sword 100% of the time unless it is broken.

Edit: To be more specific, Right-stick with CC Pro. We don't have the GCube adapter yet of course.

 

[Loki]

I am the strange and uncommon breed of Robins that kind of like the durability and reliability of stock thunder. People call it an unnecesary middle point. I seriously cuestion such a claim. Even with the durability of stock thunder I've found myself starving for the book to restore when it runs out. Against pushy opponents, having that book for as long as possible is important (and I dont mean strictly fast characters).

I do not deny the usefulness of the thunder variants, however I do defend the overall versatility and durability of the stock version. I preffer a reliable all-around tool over an all-out (in an area) weapon. Stock version requieres more administration and planification than the other versions, but overall, if used properly can excel at the areas where the others fail while providing a solid, altough not absolute, answers where the others excell.

 

[Mac2492]

After playing more custom matches with Thunder+ and Speed Thunder I'm inclined to agree with you. Thunder is the midpoint but it's still reliable in every matchup. I actually had some trouble charging and landing Thunder+ even against slower characters due to my opponent's rushdown playstyle. Speed Thunder ended up being more reliable than Thunder+, and default was about equal in reliability to Speed Thunder. All-in-all it's a viable option that can still KO around 140% when held.

As of now the only move that doesn't have a clear role is Goetia imo.
Distant Nosferatu chains with Gliding Elwind/Arcfire and is fine for spacing games + pressure.
Arcfire+ is like a linear Din's Fire for off-stage edge-guarding and the horizontal KB is useful.
Soaring Elwind is purely for recovery and darn good at it.

 

[chucho]

I been trying to learn Robin but i have a hard time recovering when my book runs out of power. what could i do?

 

[LIQUID12A]

You mean when a tome runs out in general or a specific one?

 

[Hong]

Exhausting your Elwind tome before dying is very difficult to do. Are you spamming on-stage Elwind or using the wind jab too often?

 

[Ultimastrike]

You mean when a tome runs out in general or a specific one?

I think that @ chucho means when Robin runs out of Elwind. What @ Hong said up there is something to take into mind.

Just as a note, Elwind has 18 total individual slashes. I believe that Wind Jab's Elwind Tome usage is based on the seconds you keep the wind going. Though I'm almost tempted to call that Rexcalibur instead...

Back to topic, if it's tomes in general, try catching the book with an air dodge or NAir. Robin's broken item catching is very useful since they have higher Knockback and damage when Power Throwed.

If you ran out of Elwind, try to stay on the stage and not get knocked off. If they knock you off and you don't have Elwind, then you're most likely dead.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I think that @ chucho means when Robin runs out of Elwind. What @ Hong said up there is something to take into mind.

Just as a note, Elwind has 18 total individual slashes. I believe that Wind Jab's Elwind Tome usage is based on the seconds you keep the wind going. Though I'm almost tempted to call that Rexcalibur instead...

Back to topic, if it's tomes in general, try catching the book with an air dodge or NAir. Robin's broken item catching is very useful since they have higher Knockback and damage when Power Throwed.

Well, to me the wording was confusing.

Elwind actually measures uses on how many projectiles come out. If one comes out, it counts for only one use.

He mentioned learning Robin, so if anyone could link my guide here, I'd massively appreciate it because the iPad clipboard is extremely unreliable and I lack access to my computer.

 

[Hong]

@ chucho
I've merged your thread into Q&A.

Also, here is the Robin guide as @ LIQUID12A has suggested. While I'm at it, here is a thread with basically all Robin data ever that tells you how much you can use of each move and how long you have to wait for you equipment to replenish itself.

 

[chucho]

I see, that is understandable and thank you for redirecting it. So the only way to run out of Elwind is by spaming it? Thank you both for that!

 

[Mac2492]

Liquid's guide is here.
Ultimastrike's guide is here.

The short answer to the question is "you don't". Robin has very powerful specials that are limited partly in reference to FE and partly due to their strength and versatility. Elwind is an incredible recovery tool that doubles as a surprise spike and punish. Just pay attention to your charges and make sure you don't get knocked off when Elwind runs out. If you use Elwind heavily then you'll simply have to reduce your usage or learn to fend without it for 6.8 seconds.

 

[Strider_123]

i want to start using robin again but im having a hard time.
i use pit so much and robin is polar opposite to him.
pit is fast, robin is slow
pit can chase opponents, robin can't (at least i don't think so)
pit is close and personal and robin is best played defensively.
i really want to get better with robin but my pit playstyle leaks over

 

[LIQUID12A]

i want to start using robin again but im having a hard time.
i use pit so much and robin is polar opposite to him.
pit is fast, robin is slow
pit can chase opponents, robin can't (at least i don't think so)
pit is close and personal and robin is best played defensively.
i really want to get better with robin but my pit playstyle leaks over

Here is the Robin guide for beginners, written by me.

 

[Strider_123]

Here is the Robin guide for beginners, written by me.

oh ok thanks! i need all the help i can get btw any advice for the switching problem between pit and robin?

 

[LIQUID12A]

oh ok thanks! i need all the help i can get btw any advice for the switching problem between pit and robin?

I can't help you there. I've never used Pit so I can't comment.

 

[Hong]

I deleted your previous thread. Just so you know, I would have been able to move it here for you, for future reference.

oh ok thanks! i need all the help i can get btw any advice for the switching problem between pit and robin?

There's only so much you can do.

Some people are best at playing a specific kind or a narrow range of characters, like myself, while others consider like half of the roster their "main". All I can really advise is to have a grasp of how to best play the character, formed of your own views amd ideas, as well as augmented by the example of others. If you naturally harness the strengths of a character and obey their shortcomings, they will naturally play differently from each other. For instance, should you feel compelled to chase people down as Robin? If they are a much faster character and they are just scrambling away from you, you can be playing a fool's war. Instead, if you begin charging your Thunder tome, they have all the reason to want to come to you. Put control over the match in your hands.

Robin and Pit are very different characters, which is all the more reason why you should just keep trying to play both if you genuinely like them. That is, do you actually like Robin? Is Robin fun for you? Generally something about how the character functions should click if you hope to have any enjoyment. For instance, I don't play rushdown characters because that's not playing to what I am good at, and it's not playing at my ideal game experience. I love characters like Falcon and Marth with all my heart with who they are, but not how they play. They're a shoe of the wrong size.

All that said, if you genuinely enjoy playing as Robin, then all you can do is practice alternating play between Robin and Pit. All players, from the humble novice to the seasoned veteran, should be able to pick up at least a few characters and get a real feel for them.