Q&A The Barracks - Robin Q&A Thread [ASK GAMEPLAY QUESTIONS HERE]

[TeaTwoTime]

Something that I've been wondering is whether or not you could punish shielded smash attacks with Nosferatu. I'm pretty adverse to using the move most of the time thanks to the start-up (and in most cases would prefer the more reliable Levin Sword), but it's a bit of a shame to ignore it when it's conceivably a pretty useful tome. It sounded like a good idea when someone suggested it to me, but the start-up is pretty intense, so my major concern is someone shielded or spot-dodging away if they get out of endlag faster than Nosferatu can come out. Practical or no?

Practical, but it depends on the smash attack in question and your reaction time. I'm fairly sure that something with a lot of endlag like Bowser's FSmash would give you plenty of time to throw out a Nosferatu.

 

[Raziek]

Depends on how much the push-back is.

Nos is 16 frames to start-up, so it's essentially the same as F-Smash (16) and D-Smash (17), but slower than U-Smash (13). U-Smash of course has shorter range.

I mainly use Nos as a trap for when people think I'm going to attack their shield. Unless the healing is CRITICALLY needed, I'd rather just take the F-Smash punish and charge Thoron+ in the time that buys me.

 

[Voltampt]

I haven't been using Nosferatu too much, except when you're airborne and landing in front of your shielded opponent CAN works wonders, assuming you mix it up with aerials and your opponent doesn't just predict it. I feel that the vertical and horizontal range on Nosferatu is not too bad, not good enough to make it a useable option when landing.

And since Nosferatu starts up at Frame 16, it's not exactly the best pushing tool. I just end up going for a Jab Jab Fire or a Dtilt, i feel Ftilt is a little too slow but it's definitely viable for punishing missed/whiffed/shielded smashes, but it does depend on your opponent's spacing. If the enemy is at a low percent AND poorly space their approach, I actually try and go for a utilt. Since the first frame of his utilt hits horizontally, it can help rack up good percent early by launching them up towards you, which can lead into more utilts and possibly a chase.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

I've used and prefer Nos2, since i'm using arcfire alot as space control. I can also catch someone who is trapped in arcfire's multiple hitboxes with Nos2(in addition to edgeguarding options, they share the same range).
Though I actually use Nos2 less than Nos1 in most MUs since I'm usually getting rushdowned. So I see Nos1 better when it comes to punishing slow moves.

Edit: grabbing DHD through a wall of explosions

 

[Delzethin]

So Robin's pivot grab actually seems like it has pretty solid range. What are the best ways to incorporate them into Robin's fighting style?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Robin is piquing my interest... The strategic play seems so fun.

Anyone know if there's any possible way to spike someone out of Arcfire/Arcthunder? Or any footstool offstage setups? It feels like something Robin would do.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Robin is piquing my interest... The strategic play seems so fun.

Anyone know if there's any possible way to spike someone out of Arcfire/Arcthunder? Or any footstool offstage setups? It feels like something Robin would do.

It would be difficult, but landing the spike from Elwind or DSair might be possible if you land an Arcfire or Arcthunder on someone that is a short way from the stage. I haven't done it myself, though, and I'm not sure about whether or not it would actually spike them or if they'd just take damage and stay trapped in the moves' lingering hitboxes.

 

[Raziek]

Robin is piquing my interest... The strategic play seems so fun.

Anyone know if there's any possible way to spike someone out of Arcfire/Arcthunder? Or any footstool offstage setups? It feels like something Robin would do.

I believe foot-stool Elwind (meteor) works.

Landing off-stage Arcfire is pretty impractical, as is Arcthunder.

Robin's dash speed being rather slow means you have to be pretty damn close to follow up on Arcthunder. Arcfire is a bit more lenient due to how long it lingers.

 

[Frenzy]

Was in a tournament, and found it very easy to damage my opponent and to survive. But my problem was, I couldn't seem to kill my opponent until they had 200% + damage. As far as I know, my only killing moves are side smash and f air and up air. And I couldn't land one with all the shielding and air dodging going on. What's a Robin to do?

Match lasted forever because Robin is hard to kill and Robin can't kill opponent.

 

[False Sense]

Was in a tournament, and found it very easy to damage my opponent and to survive. But my problem was, I couldn't seem to kill my opponent until they had 200% + damage. As far as I know, my only killing moves are side smash and f air and up air. And I couldn't land one with all the shielding and air dodging going on. What's a Robin to do?

Match lasted forever because Robin is hard to kill and Robin can't kill opponent.

Robin has quite a few moves that can potentially kill, actually. Far more than just those three. Arcthunder, Thoron, Arcfire, jab finishers, basically every Levin Sword attack... Robin has a lot of options. Thoron in particular is a pretty good option if your opponent is dodging constantly, since trying to roll out of Thoron's path usually results in getting hit by its trail. You can usually find time to charge it up if you use Arcfire to keep the opponent at a safe distance.

 

[Pikachewy99]

I have a really hard time fighting fast characters or characters with aggressive combos. Aggressive play styles in generals are hard to handle for me since they go way too fast for me to punish. Any tips on handle those?
Also, would playing in for Glory be a good way to learn and get experience. I'm not the best player, probably not even a decent one (so I'd probably get creamed), but I'd like to get better, so I was just wondering if taking on for glory would be a good option. I heard fighting computers makes you form bad habits, so I'd rather not do that.

 

[Raziek]

Was in a tournament, and found it very easy to damage my opponent and to survive. But my problem was, I couldn't seem to kill my opponent until they had 200% + damage. As far as I know, my only killing moves are side smash and f air and up air. And I couldn't land one with all the shielding and air dodging going on. What's a Robin to do?

Match lasted forever because Robin is hard to kill and Robin can't kill opponent.

Merged your thread into the Q&A thread, just so you know.

 

[Doroco]

I have a really hard time fighting fast characters or characters with aggressive combos. Aggressive play styles in generals are hard to handle for me since they go way too fast for me to punish. Any tips on handle those?
Also, would playing in for Glory be a good way to learn and get experience. I'm not the best player, probably not even a decent one (so I'd probably get creamed), but I'd like to get better, so I was just wondering if taking on for glory would be a good option. I heard fighting computers makes you form bad habits, so I'd rather not do that.

Never be afraid of practice! Just play for glory in a semi serious manner and for fun!

In terms of handling faster characters, if they tend to jump a lot, jumping yourself and doing arials to try to catch them is usually an effective way to keep em out of your personal bubble. Against ground fast characters trying to catch them running towards you with an elthunder or arc fire works well (dont worry if you miss sometimes). For escaping them when they are already near you rolls and standing A combo can work. As a general thing n-air is your fastest air move, so that can help.

 

[Masonomace]

Sup Robin Q&A thread, first time here

Anyhow, I have perplexing questions & it adds on to how baffling it is due to my lack of knowledge about Robin. Also please quote my post:

• What exactly happened at 3:30 in this video? http://youtu.be/hmeaUBjOHTc?t=3m28s
• What move did Robin even input??

 

[Hong]

Sup Robin Q&A thread, first time here

Anyhow, I have perplexing questions & it adds on to how baffling it is due to my lack of knowledge about Robin. Also please quote my post:

• What exactly happened at 3:30 in this video? http://youtu.be/hmeaUBjOHTc?t=3m28s
• What move did Robin even input??

That lightning graphic belongs to the Levin Sword. Given your positioning and the launch trajectory, it is likely an usmash.

See, in Smash 4, sometimes when you grab someone as you are attacked, the grab is broken before it can come fully into fruition, and the grab is broken. Probably because grab armour is only active after you have fully captured the enemy, but the snatching effect can occur before this.

 

[Masonomace]

That lightning graphic belongs to the Levin Sword. Given your positioning and the launch trajectory, it is likely an usmash.

See, in Smash 4, sometimes when you grab someone as you are attacked, the grab is broken before it can come fully into fruition, and the grab is broken. Probably because grab armour is only active after you have fully captured the enemy, but the snatching effect can occur before this.

Thanks for quoting~
And thanks for the answer, I was aware of it being a grounded Levin Sword attack making it a smash attack, but the attack looks like Fsmash or Usmash so I was boggled there. I also got an example of this kind of moment happening to a ROB vs Bowser moment when Bowser grabbed the ROB right before the Gyro hits him so seeing you post about it now helps me reflect on something I once saw before.

EDIT: What blaffed me about it was the whole turn-around animation meanwhile getting hit by the Levin Sword attack. It opt me to think at first Robin can turn-around the smash move or the grab broken caused a mario cape-effect or something. So that answer helped a lot.

 

[Pikachewy99]

Never be afraid of practice! Just play for glory in a semi serious manner and for fun!

In terms of handling faster characters, if they tend to jump a lot, jumping yourself and doing arials to try to catch them is usually an effective way to keep em out of your personal bubble. Against ground fast characters trying to catch them running towards you with an elthunder or arc fire works well (dont worry if you miss sometimes). For escaping them when they are already near you rolls and standing A combo can work. As a general thing n-air is your fastest air move, so that can help.

Ah, thank you! I'll try the using the Nair more often then (I've been using everything but Nair haha) , people tend to jump around a lot to avoid the spells in the first place, so it'll be a nice punish. I went ahead and tried for Glory and was having double with a sheik that kept jumping around, but I'm sure this will come in handy! Now to figure out how to deal with Ganon's special side and D-Tilt. Oh boy… I think that gives a lot of troubles to all players.

But thanks again, practice will make perfect!

 

[Centicerise]

Can anyway shed insight onto the most effective way to grab tomes that have been discarded?
I know Nairo has been doing it unbelievably smoothly:
youtu.be/fGSIe-3wr5Y
1:40
2:23
2:58
I have no idea what he's doing to grab the tomes so quickly and with virtually no recovery time.
Only 3:12 I can clearly see him air dodging to grab it.

 

[Hong]

Can anyway shed insight onto the most effective way to grab tomes that have been discarded?
I know Nairo has been doing it unbelievably smoothly:
youtu.be/fGSIe-3wr5Y
1:40
2:23
2:58
I have no idea what he's doing to grab the tomes so quickly and with virtually no recovery time.
Only 3:12 I can clearly see him air dodging to grab it.

Merged your thread into Q&A.

You can catch any item while airborne by pressing L (grab) while it's close enough. You can grab items even while performing other actions, like dodging.

It's really not too complicated. The tomes and Levin Sword begin to flash before they are discarded, so at that moment you should be ready to receive it when it has been exhausted. A good way to practice is to just go into training mode and spam LS uair or Nosferatu, burning them up, and trying to catch them.

 

[Nairo]

Can anyway shed insight onto the most effective way to grab tomes that have been discarded?
I know Nairo has been doing it unbelievably smoothly:
youtu.be/fGSIe-3wr5Y
1:40
2:23
2:58
I have no idea what he's doing to grab the tomes so quickly and with virtually no recovery time.
Only 3:12 I can clearly see him air dodging to grab it.

You use the grab button (so R for me/insta toss with L if I ever do it) I never really practiced catching them before I would just react to when it drops but now I try to keep a mental note of how many uses of a tome/LS I have left so I prepare to catch it unless I get knocked away or something. But yeah do what Hong said by going to the training room and practice it for a bit till you get it down! It is really worth it to use the discarded tomes/LS effectively (especially on the 3DS the tomes are so tiny so some people might not see it when you throw it if they aren't paying attention!)

Sup Robin Q&A thread, first time here

Anyhow, I have perplexing questions & it adds on to how baffling it is due to my lack of knowledge about Robin. Also please quote my post:

• What exactly happened at 3:30 in this video? http://youtu.be/hmeaUBjOHTc?t=3m28s
• What move did Robin even input??

Shulk grabbed and Robin did a down smash. (hitbox starts slightly behind Robin) There is no grab armor in this game so it interrupted the grab and it killed since the down smash was fresh/shulk at high percent

 

[Joshua Tenner]

Having trouble with spammy megaman, spammy sheik, and spammy anyone really on Final Destination. My setups work really well against anyone who wants to play "Chess" with me because I can get hard reads pretty easily.

Getting really tired of being destroyed by a local scrub and I know I can do better than this. Help!

Edit (Solutions to suggested problem I've tried and had mild success with):
Counterpick Battlefield (or Yoshi's Story for DHD)
When Opponent is charging, jump and charge lightning onto a platform
Don't play on FD
Get them in the air...

 

[CharZane]

Speaking of it, Robin feels to have more trouble punishing spam than any character I've played previously. Counters, reflectors, quick smashes, long grab ranges, a quick run speed... Robin seems to lack things that a full half of the roster (at least) now looks to have. If you make a hard read against a foe who's doing mixups, you can oft obliterate them... yet, you can't shield-grab melee spams with your dreadful grab range, nor can you roll-punish beyond a tilt or A combo of iffy range, nor can you even move fast enough to punish a Little Mac using neutral B... which, again, you can't shield grab. Aerial rushing them isn't practical when dealing with super armor moves... I mean, arcthunder/thoron help against melee/range spam respectively, but the tome will simply break after 3-4 punishes and net you a death because you spammed the appropriate response.

There are exceptions, of course... Arcfire stops some degree of dash-attack spam (though it's not as helpful as a good shield grab would be in that respect), your dash attack itself does come out moderately quick, you grab gets the dash-cancel trick for a bit of range in some situations, Arcthunder/fire linger in such a way as to make them a bit iffy to shield if withing your limited grab-range... But dealing with spam of any sort simply feels like something Robin doesn't have as many tools for. Is this just me? Am I missing something key? Is there anything but powershielding every projectile? Only punishing dash attacks with roll-past Arcthunders?

The buff to air dodges is brutal for trying to juggle, though-- especially with Robin's limited lateral movespeed (be it air or ground). Honestly tend to more often give up the chase to try and Arcthunder their landing lag after an Uair or two and maybe a Nair-- it takes them getting greedy to really keep up a juggle...

Playing against 'dash attack Little Mac' almost has me wanting Gaur Plains base-stage in For Glory, just out of spite. >//<

 

[Delzethin]

I've been practicing pivot grabs lately, and there's one thing that's been getting to me. Sometimes, for some reason, Robin slides a little further than normal...and whiffs the grab because of it. There has to be something I'm messing up on with the input, but I can't figure out what. Has anyone else had the same problem in the past and overcome it?

 

[DiverseStyle]

Hi again, three more things I'd like advice on to further improve my Robin game:

1. Properly using Arcfire; this one may seem obvious, but I'm having issues with Arcfire's spacing. What I mean by that is that there are situations where I either end up using it while the opponent is too close, leading them to be under the attack's "arc" path, or they are too far away and just end up jumping over it or waiting for it to burn out. Since Arcfire is an invaluable attack in linking together with Levin Sword, I want to land it as much as possible, but I'm just having difficulty finding that "middle ground." Unless it's bad to be over-reliant on Arcfire.

2. OoS from behind; I read up on the different OoS options Robin has, but I was wondering what is the best OoS for Robin when your opponent ends up behind you? For example, I often come across Mega Man players that love spamming dash attack. I shield, but they always end up behind me and I just don't know the best way to punish that. Would Nair or Bair be options, or is there something better?

3. Vertical landing; maybe this is not a problem exclusive to Robin, but when I get launched vertically, I tend to have problems on landing. Dair gets easily punished by shielding and most opponents can read by air dodges. How do you deal with this?

Thanks again Robin community~

 

[CharZane]

Hi again, three more things I'd like advice on to further improve my Robin game:

1. Properly using Arcfire; this one may seem obvious, but I'm having issues with Arcfire's spacing. What I mean by that is that there are situations where I either end up using it while the opponent is too close, leading them to be under the attack's "arc" path, or they are too far away and just end up jumping over it or waiting for it to burn out. Since Arcfire is an invaluable attack in linking together with Levin Sword, I want to land it as much as possible, but I'm just having difficulty finding that "middle ground." Unless it's bad to be over-reliant on Arcfire.

2. OoS from behind; I read up on the different OoS options Robin has, but I was wondering what is the best OoS for Robin when your opponent ends up behind you? For example, I often come across Mega Man players that love spamming dash attack. I shield, but they always end up behind me and I just don't know the best way to punish that. Would Nair or Bair be options, or is there something better?

3. Vertical landing; maybe this is not a problem exclusive to Robin, but when I get launched vertically, I tend to have problems on landing. Dair gets easily punished by shielding and most opponents can read by air dodges. How do you deal with this?

Thanks again Robin community~

1. Arcfire is a matter of prediction more than aim-- though, as a rule of thumb, any arcfire that stops a foe from rushing you is technically a win, as you then get some free space to charge thunder (or, better, they try to jump over it just to get nailed by a Fair/Nair or such). Using it when they're too close is potentially deadly, but when their too far isn't that much of a problem to have happening on-occasion. It's very 'by feel', and is oft just a matter of practice and prediction against any given character.
2. Personally, I tend to use Ftilts or Bairs, depending on the situation. Sometimes it's actually preferable to roll towards their dash attack and Arcfire or use a thunder after them-- sometimes you can even manage a smash or a Nosferatu after them, sometimes a dash grab can work... it's all kind've situational, but Robin's OoS options are a bit stunted by her lack of a usable shield-grab, so keep that in mind. They keypoint is keeping foes out of their grab range by batting them away, more than anything, so react accordingly (Robin seems to be fairly grab-vulnerable given her limited ability to do the same.
3. Never recover high by using Elwind-- always sweetspot unless they have some extremely potent spike. Rather than trying to reach the stage 'ground' at all, it's often easier just to go for the safe-in-smash-4 ledges. From there, the various options between ledge drop Fairs, that deceptive ledge attack, or jump-returns with defensive Bairs can help immensely. If you /must/ recover higher, it's better to just arcfire at the stage to keep them on it, then recover low with Elwind anyway-- but be careful not to recover too late. If you're recovering from higher, Arcfires can help a bit if they're going for a dash attack to hit you as you landing-lag (they'll still reach the ground if you're not far above it), and Nosferatu can sometimes work to punish those who'll shield anticipating a Fair/Nair. B-reversing a thunder charge in midair can theoretically help, but focus on landing as far from your foe as possible-- Robin's aerial game of hitting foes below is as good as nonexistant (that is, you're not Link). Focus on reaching the ground and keeping your spacing rather than trying to connect-- your goal is to minimize your own damage first and foremost. Remember, airdodges are OP, and and Nair/Bair work nicely as retreating hits (that is, don't move towards them while doing so, or it'll just get you shieldgrabbed in the landing lag).

Hope that helps-- remember that a hit from Elwind does guarantee safety, so you can use that in a pinch with the second projectile to keep from geting Usmashed or the like from time to time.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

What sorts of secondary characters do you all run? The characters I've played the most behind Robin are Lucina and Dark Pit, but I haven't really committed yet to learning either of them. But I know I'm eventually gonna need a good fallback, mainly to help counter rushdown. Preferably someone with a usable shield grab (lolol Little Mac dash attack).

 

[CharZane]

I've been using Lucina as my secondary, if only because my familiarity with melee Marth had the learning curve rather nonexistant. Almost was going to go with Lucina>Robin, but then I turned out to be far better with Robin than I'd anticipated... Maybe Lucina makes for good cross-training, actually?

Lucina's counter and spacing game feel like they'd make her a good answer to rushdown, but that honestly hasn't felt like a weakness of Robin's anymore. Spikes, superior projectile pressure, and /some/ rushdown sorts feel difficult (Little Mac feels super difficult, but Greninja feels fairly managable given the air priority... no vote on Sheik yet, though). An answer to Little Mac, projectile spam, and possible Rosalina or Sonic would help, though. (I'd name one, but it depends more on playstyle than character, I feel... Samus's kill-capable charge shot and zone-controlling missiles come to mind, though).

Air-based rushdown doesn't feel like, once you master Robin's aerials, they even /can/ hit you without some crazy mobility (or, perhaps, simply -being- Yoshi... he feels like a real beast in 4). The lack of grab makes Little Mac such a painful matchup, though-- mostly because he combines the most difficult parts of other difficult matchups. Counters force iffy juggles, quick dash makes Arcfire hell to use and prevents thunder charging, super armor punishes /punishes/, his own grab punishes... well, your own piddlier grab-range... He can counter your jab combo pretty easily, too, which is irksome. Add that to his crazy edgeguarding and you're in for some potential hell-- especially since most of your gimping tools are only really useful 'by happenstance' rather than easily set up (like Lucina's spike by just b-throwing or perhaps ken comboing).

Greninja's water shuriken to 'shut down' thunder feels overrated thus far, though-- its lesser range has me feeling far less pressured by it than I was expecting, most games, and Arcfire still blocks uncharged shuriken in a pinch.

---

On an unrelated note, Fair can trigger counters from outside the retaliation range, and I just got a kill by throwing someone into a dropped book and another by throwing a sword straight upwards, catching it, and then nailing them in the face with it... The mindgames of throwing something straight upwards and then forcing a fight under it feels potent, while combos that involve hitting people into discarded swords and tomes feels very 'insult to injury'... I just imagined throwing a sword straight up, Nosferatuing, and then having the sword land to KO one hell of an unlikely KO method...

On a fun note, Arcfire and Arcthunder both quite nicely counter counters, giving some non-grab options for punishing their spam (not sure on Thoron yet, but Nosferatu should be an obvious one as well).

 

[CountOlaf]

So I've been messing around with B-reversing and wavebouncing robin's thunder to make landing a bit more safe ( I think this is one of Robin's bigger weaknesses), and it's been working pretty well, but how can you cancel thunder in the air? The only method I've found is airdodging, which has a lot of lag, or landing and then shielding. Any other suggestions?

 

[sunfallSeraph]

So I've been messing around with B-reversing and wavebouncing robin's thunder to make landing a bit more safe ( I think this is one of Robin's bigger weaknesses), and it's been working pretty well, but how can you cancel thunder in the air? The only method I've found is airdodging, which has a lot of lag, or landing and then shielding. Any other suggestions?

Can't you cancel airdodge landing lag by using an autocancel-able aerial before landing? It seems like if you're high enough, you should be able to airdodge out of Thunder charge and then nair to avoid getting caught in a landing trap.

 

[Khao]

I've been kinda curious about something.

So I know that inputting a Smash attack on mid-air instantly switches to the Levin Sword...

But is there a way to use the Bronze Sword on stuff like say, fair when you have the Levin Sword equipped? Cause tilting doesn't seem to do it, the move comes out as a Levin Sword anyway.

 

[CharZane]

I've been kinda curious about something.

So I know that inputting a Smash attack on mid-air instantly switches to the Levin Sword...

But is there a way to use the Bronze Sword on stuff like say, fair when you have the Levin Sword equipped? Cause tilting doesn't seem to do it, the move comes out as a Levin Sword anyway.

You need to Nair to switch back to bronze-- though, in my experience, Nair works for most situations where one would want for a bronze sword aerial. Other than that, you'd need to land and use some other bronze-sword-only attack. Is there something specifically you were wanting the bronze sword Fair for? Nair works well enough with Arcfire combos and whatnot if you really wanted to conserve levin strikes or such, though, given it only takes a few seconds to regenerate once broken, I've rarely seen much point to conserving it all that much, myself (though, if you're trying to time the break to be sure it's catchable, then perhaps when you know it's only a strike or two from breaking...?)

 

[Khao]

Was just wondering more than anything, it's just kinda curious that you can switch from Bronze to Levin on most aerials but not vice versa.

 

[CharZane]

Mm, it's mostly for convenience, actually. Re-inputting 'smash' inputs sans c-stick can mess with your momentum and force bad spacing on potentially hard-to-hit aerials like Bair and Dair-- having the first be 'smashed' tends not to be a problem, but if you need 2 aerials without landing, chances are that your air control is that much more important to keep precise. Given how bronze sword aerials have little in way of advantage over levin strikes (nair aside, which is pretty fantastic), I think it was more for the sake of consistency-- having to smash down /again/ when trying to spike someone with Dair after having to double-jump out of your Fair just makes for an extremely perilous situation, as a simple example, as you'd be potentially forced to FF to your death.

 

[CountOlaf]

Can't you cancel airdodge landing lag by using an autocancel-able aerial before landing? It seems like if you're high enough, you should be able to airdodge out of Thunder charge and then nair to avoid getting caught in a landing trap.

Hmm I can try that. I thought you couldn't auto-cancel robin's aerials though, but I'll lab it out

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

Hey guys! I hope this is the right place to post this...the title said ask gameplay questions here so I think so...
Anyway, Robin just recently started piquing my interest, and, as it seems to be the case with all characters I play, I'm willing to bet he has trouble against rushdown characters (e.g. Sheik, Little Mac, etc). So to you more experienced Robin players, I have a few questions:

1. What's Robin's best tool to get out of pressure? Anything other than just jab and pray?
2. His dtilt seems really fast, but its range is a bit lacking. When, if any, is it a good time to use this move?
3. What are Robin's good tools for neutral? Arcfire seems like it would be very consistently dodged by good players, so I assume it should be used sparingly.
4. I've noticed you can choose whether or not to use the lightning (Levin, yes? Sorry I didn't play Fire Emblem :X ) sword based on whether you tilt or smash when in he air. It seems that nair and tilt "unequip" the sword, making you use the basic sword until you decide to smash again. Do you recommend making use of nair and tilts to save charges on your sword? Or is it more effective to ignore the sword charges and just use the lightning sword all the time when it's up?
5. If you have any other tips, please feel free to tell me!

Thanks

 

[AlienWarhead]

Hello I'm maining Robin and I feel like missing something, maybe I suck at Robin air game. I know air Levin is suppose to good, but I have a hard time hitting anyone in the air, I either miss them or they hit me first. It's hard for me to hit anyone in the air, sometimes neutral air A or back air A works, but I want air attacks to hit most of the time. I would like to chase people off stage to KO them or use air Levin to KO them, but my air game isn't good enough. Also I can't seem to combo after down grab and when I use up air A I end up jumping and missing.

 

[CharZane]

Hey guys! I hope this is the right place to post this...the title said ask gameplay questions here so I think so...
Anyway, Robin just recently started piquing my interest, and, as it seems to be the case with all characters I play, I'm willing to bet he has trouble against rushdown characters (e.g. Sheik, Little Mac, etc). So to you more experienced Robin players, I have a few questions:

1. What's Robin's best tool to get out of pressure? Anything other than just jab and pray?
2. His dtilt seems really fast, but its range is a bit lacking. When, if any, is it a good time to use this move?
3. What are Robin's good tools for neutral? Arcfire seems like it would be very consistently dodged by good players, so I assume it should be used sparingly.
4. I've noticed you can choose whether or not to use the lightning (Levin, yes? Sorry I didn't play Fire Emblem :X ) sword based on whether you tilt or smash when in he air. It seems that nair and tilt "unequip" the sword, making you use the basic sword until you decide to smash again. Do you recommend making use of nair and tilts to save charges on your sword? Or is it more effective to ignore the sword charges and just use the lightning sword all the time when it's up?
5. If you have any other tips, please feel free to tell me!

Thanks

1./2. Dtilt itself is, actually, one of my favorite ways to get out of pressure-- it's safe from shield and comes out as quick as jabbing, but it's far less punishable than getting trapped in a jab if someone rolls (dtilt into an ftilt to chase a roll can work very nicely). Preemptively halting a rush with Arcfire is a key tactic to keep your spacing, and remember to grab-- while shieldgrabs with Robin are terrible in general with such short range, dashed grabs are more reasonable, or even Nosferatu if you need the mixup on a predicted shield (though keep in mind it's nearly as slow as a smash attack).
3. Charging thunder up to arcthunder is almost always your best option if someone's distant. Having it on-hand rarely has any downside, and your tomes regenerate quite quickly after being expended. Spamming isn't ideal, of course, but even if only half of your Arcfires deal damage, they can't be called pointless. Even the thunder they shield can still stop Samus from charging or set up for a grab/aerial, after all.
4. As with tomes, you don't need to 'save' your Levin sword-- it respawns quite swiftly once used, and so long a you're not missing more often than not, it's hardly 'wasteful'. For that matter, Nair aside, there's almost no reason to use a bronze sword aerial over the Levin variant-- it's just less damage and knockback to keep something around that takes seconds to return either way.
5. When you do break a tome or sword, practice grabbing it afterwards (jump or dash)-- you don't need to count uses or anything, but having the habit really opens up some options for disrupting an opponent (espeically given that they can KO pretty nicely).

Hello I'm maining Robin and I feel like missing something, maybe I suck at Robin air game. I know air Levin is suppose to good, but I have a hard time hitting anyone in the air, I either miss them or they hit me first. It's hard for me to hit anyone in the air, sometimes neutral air A or back air A works, but I want air attacks to hit most of the time. I would like to chase people off stage to KO them or use air Levin to KO them, but my air game isn't good enough. Also I can't seem to combo after down grab and when I use up air A I end up jumping and missing.

It's a matter of timing, pure and simple. What helped for me, oddly enough, was practicing Marth/Lucina a bit-- as sword-weilding characters who also rely on spacing, it was like practicing on 'high speed' to make normal-speed timings all the easier. Or like training in high gravity to make normal gravity seem all the less of a burden, if you prefer a DBZ analogy...

As for the grab problem, turn off tap jump-- it makes trying to use unjumped aerials and utilts a veritible nightmare on any character, let alone one who -requires- smash inputs for levin-strikes. I don't believe Robin's really usable with tap jump on, so it'll save you hours of frustration to just turn it off.

Chasing off-stage tends to require Bairs, given their quick timing and high knockback, as Fairs are all too often apt to be airdodged or even countered with their very predictable arc. Uairs from offstage can work as well, however, and there are always the tricky Dair/Elwind spikes to try if they recover low, but I often find that 'safe' recovering opponents often mean it's a better use of my time to charge thunder. Edgeguarding from onstage, however, gives you quite a many more options, as you can Elthunder/Thoron a recovering foe rather easily (the latter can't easily be airdodged while the former can poke them further offstage), or play it like Little Mac and aim to punish their ledge recovery choice (Arcthunder/Arcfire into dashgrab work well for the simple standing->shield, Dsmash or a tilt can hit rolls, Uairs punish jumps, etc.). Your aerials are powerful, but in the way Ganon's are rather than Jigglypuff's: they can kill from onstage, but they don't make your game revolve around gimping. That takes aerial speed and spacing, whereas you have aerial power and spacing. Gimping takes fast aerials, generally, which is why Bair (or potentially Uair) are your main options, barring a spike.

---End of Replies

But that segues into my question, really, which is that of what to do when one has neither better aerial range or speed, along with having almost no use for thunder for ranged pressure.

I speak, of course, of Rosalina.

Many have a means of nullifying ranged attacks, granted, but surprise doesn't even work when one has the omnipresent tank of a Luma to force failure of all but Thoron (which can rarely be reached given Luma shot+star bits offering better, safer ranged pressure).
Many have aerials of similarly disjointed hitboxes that are faster, like Marth, yet I can think of none that force you to also approach them...

Little Mac may be a stressful matchup, but Rosalina feels... almost handicapping. I'm sure it's apt to be a matter of finding a shift in playstyle to suit the matchup, but I've yet to come across such... Anyone with more luck in finding some practice against good Rosilumas come up with a more solid plan? The usual 'projectiles to force an approach into air superiority' versus 'methodical spacing ground-game' choice feels to be equally damning given that Luma enforces ground control while her aerials rule the skies... Hm...

 

[Funkermonster]

How exactly do you switch to the Bronze Sword to the Levin one whenever its available? Whenever I do it I just use a smash attack when no one's in range to hit me, but I dunno what I'm doing...

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

How exactly do you switch to the Bronze Sword to the Levin one whenever its available? Whenever I do it I just use a smash attack when no one's in range to hit me, but I dunno what I'm doing...

From what I can tell...
- If you do a smash attack or do a smash attack motion in the air you will get the Levin sword and "equip" it
- While the Levin sword is equipped, even doing tilt motions in the air will result in you using the Levin sword for aerials
- To "unequip" the Levin sword use a move that never uses the Levin sword such as nair or and ground tilts
- While the Levin sword is unequipped all tilt motions (including aerials) will not use the Levin sword, but smash attacking or doing smash attack aerials will re-equip the Levin sword
- You can also just not use the Levin sword for like 6(?) seconds and it will automatically unequip
- Levin sword has 8 uses before it expires and goes on cooldown

 

[Pazzo.]

What sorts of secondary characters do you all run? The characters I've played the most behind Robin are Lucina and Dark Pit, but I haven't really committed yet to learning either of them. But I know I'm eventually gonna need a good fallback, mainly to help counter rushdown. Preferably someone with a usable shield grab (lolol Little Mac dash attack).

I use Ness a lot, with Robin probably actually my no. 2 main. Ness' D-Throw into F-Air is on my list of 'a few of my favorite things'.

My brother swears by Sakurai that Ganondorf is great for countering Mac. I've yet to try it myself.